Bernie Kosar says Brady Quinn could use a fresh start
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The real Cleveland Browns QB controversy: Who wins when there's no one to throw to, anyway?
By Bill Livingston
October 19, 2009, 7:00PM
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Bernie Kosar's return to good graces with the Browns coincides with circumstances on the playing field eerily similar to those that diminished his play at quarterback.
"He says I'm not productive," Kosar complained of Bill Belichick years ago. "But he got rid of the players I was productive with."
He was referring to the purge of his favorite receivers -- Webster Slaughter, Brian Brennan and Reggie Langhorne.
Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn might think the same thing. The Browns have not been able to develop a quarterback who was a consistent winner since Kosar. To some extent, the same mistakes have been repeated. You have to give it to them -- they are persistent in error.
Tracy Boulian/The Plain DealerKellen Winslow might have been a security blanket that helped make Brady Quinn successful this season. But Winslow's departure from the team eliminated that option in Quinn's short-lived stretch as Browns starting quarterback.
Touchdowns have been scarce this season. No wide receiver has scored one from scrimmage. In part, this is because Braylon Edwards was traded after five or six disruptive incidents too many. They got bits and pieces in return, which is what happens when trades are made at the time a player is at his lowest possible value.
The starting quarterback when Edwards was exiled was Anderson, who made the Pro Bowl in 2007 because Edwards caught 16 of his 29 touchdown passes. Edwards was his favorite target.
It can be argued that Edwards blew up Anderson's 2008 season with his bad hands. The flip side is that Edwards was at least providing opportunities for positive plays and creating opportunities for teammates by commanding double coverage.
The Anderson-Edwards reunion tour lasted exactly one game this season. Edwards didn't have a catch and dropped a couple against the Bengals, but Mohamed Massaquoi had a big game because he did not have to be the No. 1 receiver. Now, the opposition's best cornerbacks have either stifled him or he has dropped too many balls when he does get open. In that regard, Edwards' legacy lives on.
Before Anderson, Quinn started for 10 quarters of Sominex football. If the Browns were going to run an offense featuring the pass as a glorified handoff, they never should have traded tight end Kellen Winslow. They got handbags and glad rags in return for him, too. Winslow was Quinn's favorite target.
Since the Browns returned in 1999, they have repeatedly hit the nail squarely on the thumb with quarterbacks.
Tim Couch was thrown to the wolves too soon. The expansion line in front of him made you wish turnstiles could have been legally placed in front of pass rushers. They would have been more of an obstruction.
Kelly Holcomb took over for Couch. In the middle of the next season, Butch Davis got rid of the team's most productive wide receiver, Kevin Johnson.
Jeff Garcia came in with a West Coast offense background. Offensive coordinator Terry Robiskie had no familiarity with the West Coast offense.
Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl ring in spite of himself in Baltimore, then proved he couldn't play or mentor here.
The next season, Charlie Frye had no veteran teammate at all to play the confidant's role Gary Danielson played so well with Kosar.
Coach Eric Mangini said Monday that his relationship with Kosar is informal. He said it is interesting to see things from a quarterback's perspective. He said it was even more interesting to see it from the perspective of what defensive maneuvers bother quarterbacks.
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"Ummm, you know what, I think it would be tough … It’s a tough spot for him right now,” Kosar said. “I personally like seeing that he’s unhappy not playing. You don’t want a young quarterback that’s happy being a backup.
“People should cut him slack if he is frustrated and does say something that’s maybe a little negative in terms of wanting to play.
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
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"Ummm, you know what, I think it would be tough … It’s a tough spot for him right now,” Kosar said. “I personally like seeing that he’s unhappy not playing. You don’t want a young quarterback that’s happy being a backup.
“People should cut him slack if he is frustrated and does say something that’s maybe a little negative in terms of wanting to play.
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
He can still pick up his $11 Mil if he takes 70% or more of the snaps next season as well. So benching him this year with an early hook was NOT all because of money.
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I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
He can still pick up his $11 Mil if he takes 70% or more of the snaps next season as well. So benching him this year with an early hook was NOT all because of money.
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"Ummm, you know what, I think it would be tough … It’s a tough spot for him right now,” Kosar said. “I personally like seeing that he’s unhappy not playing. You don’t want a young quarterback that’s happy being a backup.
“People should cut him slack if he is frustrated and does say something that’s maybe a little negative in terms of wanting to play.
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
These comments from Bernie must be to encourage other teams to throw in a bid for BQ. It would seem to indicate there has been little to no interest thus far. Another 1st round bust, just fcuking unbelievable.
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Ive concluded this organization and team is going to suck for a long time even if lerner sold the team...i have pretty much lost interest in anything this club does because its a minor league outfit with a queer for an owner...rebuilding isnt going to be enough to pull this club outta the ghetto...
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I didn't know that...I thought it was in the first 3 years...
Anyway....No, it wasn't all about money.
This blurb was in Sunday's PD (and posted in a thread here about Browns Contracts):
<<<< Quinn's bonuses worked like this: He could have earned up to $11 million if he had played 45 percent of the team's snaps in 2007 and 55 percent in 2008. Since he didn't, the bonus now requires that he play 70 percent of the snaps in 2009. If he fails to do that, the $11 million is still available if he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010. If he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010, it's $5.8 million. I had reported he also could make $11 million in 2010, which is incorrect. His base salary makes him affordable as a backup, while he can get a huge boost if he becomes a regular here or elsewhere.
Fans have been writing that Quinn was sent to the bench to avoid paying his bonus. Well, the best way to do that was to play Anderson starting in Game 1. Or to trade Quinn over the summer to Denver when the Broncos called. >>>>
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There it is in black and white.
Sorry Quinn "backers"
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I think that sums it up and makes me feel even stronger in the opinion Quinn has had some sharp words with the staff and or teammates.
Bernie is right..he needs a fresh start.
The "it's tough" comment in reference to a trade isn't good...sounds like the offers are few, and so small it is hardly worth making the trade.
I think other teams see the attitude and see that as a big negative.
Players talk to players...word spreads around the league.
He can still pick up his $11 Mil if he takes 70% or more of the snaps next season as well. So benching him this year with an early hook was NOT all because of money.
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I didn't know that...I thought it was in the first 3 years...
Anyway....No, it wasn't all about money.
This blurb was in Sunday's PD (and posted in a thread here about Browns Contracts):
<<<< Quinn's bonuses worked like this: He could have earned up to $11 million if he had played 45 percent of the team's snaps in 2007 and 55 percent in 2008. Since he didn't, the bonus now requires that he play 70 percent of the snaps in 2009. If he fails to do that, the $11 million is still available if he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010. If he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010, it's $5.8 million. I had reported he also could make $11 million in 2010, which is incorrect. His base salary makes him affordable as a backup, while he can get a huge boost if he becomes a regular here or elsewhere.
Fans have been writing that Quinn was sent to the bench to avoid paying his bonus. Well, the best way to do that was to play Anderson starting in Game 1. Or to trade Quinn over the summer to Denver when the Broncos called. >>>>
This blurb was in Sunday's PD (and posted in a thread here about Browns Contracts):
<<<< Quinn's bonuses worked like this: He could have earned up to $11 million if he had played 45 percent of the team's snaps in 2007 and 55 percent in 2008. Since he didn't, the bonus now requires that he play 70 percent of the snaps in 2009. If he fails to do that, the $11 million is still available if he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010. If he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010, it's $5.8 million. I had reported he also could make $11 million in 2010, which is incorrect. His base salary makes him affordable as a backup, while he can get a huge boost if he becomes a regular here or elsewhere.
Fans have been writing that Quinn was sent to the bench to avoid paying his bonus. Well, the best way to do that was to play Anderson starting in Game 1. Or to trade Quinn over the summer to Denver when the Broncos called. >>>>
Thanks..I saw that on your other thread...seems like new info...i had never seen that part..always just in the first 3 years.
Good find
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even in light of that new (at least to me) info, that doesn't mean its not about money. he takes enough snaps for this year, he gets paid. he wont be here next year, so i dont think that much of the consideration. he's not worth 11 million, so just because he has the option to take the escalator for 2 consecutive years lends no credence to benching him being solely a function of play.
his play didn't match the money, which is more likely.
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I didn't know that...I thought it was in the first 3 years...
Anyway....No, it wasn't all about money.
This blurb was in Sunday's PD (and posted in a thread here about Browns Contracts):
<<<< Quinn's bonuses worked like this: He could have earned up to $11 million if he had played 45 percent of the team's snaps in 2007 and 55 percent in 2008. Since he didn't, the bonus now requires that he play 70 percent of the snaps in 2009. If he fails to do that, the $11 million is still available if he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010. If he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010, it's $5.8 million. I had reported he also could make $11 million in 2010, which is incorrect. His base salary makes him affordable as a backup, while he can get a huge boost if he becomes a regular here or elsewhere.
Fans have been writing that Quinn was sent to the bench to avoid paying his bonus. Well, the best way to do that was to play Anderson starting in Game 1. Or to trade Quinn over the summer to Denver when the Broncos called. >>>>
This blurb was in Sunday's PD (and posted in a thread here about Browns Contracts):
<<<< Quinn's bonuses worked like this: He could have earned up to $11 million if he had played 45 percent of the team's snaps in 2007 and 55 percent in 2008. Since he didn't, the bonus now requires that he play 70 percent of the snaps in 2009. If he fails to do that, the $11 million is still available if he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010. His base salary makes him affordable as a backup, while he can get a huge boost if he becomes a regular here or elsewhere.
Fans have been writing that Quinn was sent to the bench to avoid paying his bonus. Well, the best way to do that was to play Anderson starting in Game 1. Or to trade Quinn over the summer to Denver when the Broncos called. >>>>
There it is in black and white.
Sorry Quinn "backers"
From Pluto's Monday column:
Terry Pluto said:
Getting it right: In my Sunday notes, I was wrong about the incentives in Brady Quinn's contract. Yes, he will receive $11 million if he takes 70 percent of the snaps this season. If he takes 70 percent of the snaps in 2010, it's $5.8 million. I had reported he also could make $11 million in 2010, which is incorrect. -
Thanks...I knew I had never seen that before so it came as a complete change-up.
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Bernie knows dick.. he is still suffering from post concussion syndrome from that fastball I beaned him with when I was 11 in Boardman little league.. Not to mention all the hit's babette gave him. I loved bernie as a brown.. I have serious doubts about this consulting thing.
It is probably no different than the roles that Jim Brown and Paul Warfield play, both of whom are also "consultants" for the Browns. The role of these guys is to try to evaluate people who can be the next Jim Brown, Paul Warfield, and Bernie Kosar for this team. JB and PW have been on their roles for several years, they have yet to find anyone as good as themselves....can Bernie do any better?
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Good to see Bernie is already shooting his mouth off in his first few weeks as a "consultant." I hope he keeps it coming with the off-the-cuff comments. You know that has to piss Mangini off.
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Bernie knows dick.. he is still suffering from post concussion syndrome from that fastball I beaned him with when I was 11 in Boardman little league.. Not to mention all the hit's babette gave him. I loved bernie as a brown.. I have serious doubts about this consulting thing.
It is probably no different than the roles that Jim Brown and Paul Warfield play, both of whom are also "consultants" for the Browns. The role of these guys is to try to evaluate people who can be the next Jim Brown, Paul Warfield, and Bernie Kosar for this team. JB and PW have been on their roles for several years, they have yet to find anyone as good as themselves....can Bernie do any better?
It is probably no different than the roles that Jim Brown and Paul Warfield play, both of whom are also "consultants" for the Browns. The role of these guys is to try to evaluate people who can be the next Jim Brown, Paul Warfield, and Bernie Kosar for this team. JB and PW have been on their roles for several years, they have yet to find anyone as good as themselves....can Bernie do any better?
I'd fire Daboll, and put Bernie in as offensive coordinator. I've also officially lost interest in the Browns for this season (& this coming from a season ticket holder) assuming Mangini is content to think this long time fan is going to continue to watch the last rated qb in the league stink it up week after week, and add in the worst defense in the NFL as a side benefit.
I wish we had a puke emoticon to show my true feelings about the Browns right now.
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