Hines Ward NFL's Dirtiest Player- So say his peers

neohionative

@the-gipper said:
If we had him, I would like him. He is a good tough player. I don't think anyone denies that. It's just that in about 1 in every 100 plays he does something that his peers feel is beyond the realm of proper conduct.
Again, I don't know why a Steeler fan would complain to us about this. It was the other 1643 NFL football players in the league from Seattle to Miami, from New England to San Diego that placed the distinction on him as dirtiest player in the league. It wasn't Cleveland Browns fans.

If he were on the Browns, absolutely we would probably overlook his shortcomings.

By the way, and let me know if anyone agrees with me: I still think Albert Belle had every right to clean Fernando Vina's clock even though a lot of people raged about what a dirty play it was. You all know what I am talking about. No way. Vina's butt was in the way and AB did what he had to do to break up that double play. Maybe Steeler fans see Whiney the way we saw Albert
.

Check the story, this was from a sampling of 300 odd players, not the entire NFL

Jason J

The Soldier said:
He is considered dirty because he redefined the position. He started blocking downfield, and not giving up. Defensive backs wer not use to this, so it became an issue. Truth is, he plays the game as it should be played
Fact is, he plays hard. You can blindside a QB can't you? Well, he blindsides players trying to tackle a member of his team with the ball. Its football.

This board defends our "tough" defensive coordinator for talking trash with the opposing team. But a wide reciever that blocks and knocks other players around? Must be dirty.

I'm with you there. Ward is what I call "chippy". He's the kind of guy you love if he's on your team, but everyone else hates. He reminds me of a little remembered (sadly) cornerback that played for the Cardinals and Saints named Pat Fischer. I modeled my play as a kid after Fischer. He out-fought, out-witted, held, hit, blindsided, baited, intimidated everyone he played against. He was physically no match for many of his counterparts (nor was I, by the way)... but mentally, he won nearly every battle. I don't know if anyone in the league ever had more swings taken at them... and that's a win in my book.

Ward is much the same way. He's not a particularly gifted receiver by NFL standards. But he gets the absolute most out of his talent by being aggressive, tenacious, and more importantly understanding the game, and getting into the heads of his opponents.

It's all sour grapes... and when it comes to Ward, I've got a bucket full.

-jj

The Gipper

@neohionative said:
Check the story, this was from a sampling of 300 odd players, not the entire NFL

That is a reasonable enough sample of the entire NFL population. Do you think that if the entire NFL population had been forced to answer it would have changed the outcome?

The Gipper

Formerly Stone said:
Fixed that for ya......and now we know the truth.

Are you saying that the other 8 or 10 players that are cited in that poll are justified in being there, but Ward and Polamalu are not JUST because they are Steelers? It looks to me like they have Redskins, Dolphins, Titans, Rams, Falcons, and Vikings on that list.

calfoxwc

There are a lot of successful players that are not cheapshots, with a lack of concern for permanently injuring another player.

Polycheapshot could have broken the neck of a kick returner in college.

Hines Ward is an outstanding receiver, and he is successful, but part of that is because

if he is not getting open, he waits to get his chance to put that defensive player out of the game with a

blind side hit, says I.

Instead of being two of the most respected players in the game, they resort to cheapshots/blindside hits away from the ball,

to get or keep the upper hand in a game, risking the other player's career with apathy.

They suck despite being very talented. Tainted, like the super bowl wins of the squeelers.

Hey, everybody knows that, even steeler fans. But the latter are just all wet in Egypt.

calfoxwc

You're saying that fake boobs, etc, caused other cheerleaders career-ending, serious injury ?

We're talkin unnecessary violence away from a physical sport, not silicon inserts.

Although, there is Pollyschmumu....

The Gipper

Formerly Stone said:
No, what I am saying is that it's a stupid poll. Football is a rough game and while there have been many truly dirty players over the years, asking the people who play this rough game who is the roughest or dirtiest is like asking a bunch of beauty contestants who among them is the most fake...... the ones with fake boobs, too much make-up, died hair, etc.
It is bound to create a long list of meaningless twitter!

Yes, there have been many truly dirty players over the years. Some of them even made the HOF. Like Mean Joe Greene (he got that nickname for a reason) (plus just about any Raider).

Some guys HAVE been denied HOF consideration because of perceived "dirtiness". Exhibit 'A': Jack Tatum. One of the greatest safeties in history. Probably better than Ronnie Lott. He is denied consideration solely because of the Daryl Stingley incident, when truly, what Tatum said was correct: "I made that hit the way I was taught to make that hit, and the way every DB in the league was taught."

Nevertheless, the poll WAS taken, and Whines Hard WAS the winner...and, again, it IS the other players in the league, not fans, not broadcasters, not anyone else, that gave him those votes. Perception is reality.

DawgTracker

I'm not surprised. The hit on Rivers of the bengals was a perfect example. He blindsides the guy with a forearm underneath the helmet and breaks his jaw.

I doubt he is the dirtiest player ever because lineman used to get away with dirty plays almost every down

Spunkonmyback DPOY

As long as a player plays within the rulebook (The rulebook all 32 owners agree to play upon) then I am okay with them being considered dirty. You can't blame Hines or any other player for doing something that is allowed to be done, can you? I think its an honor for a reciever to be considered dirty since typically 99% of contact reciever makes includes them getting takled/knocked down. Again, this comes under the assumption the player typically players within the limits of the rules. Hines didn't get a flag for any of his most famous hits, so its safe to say he plays within the rules.

BUNSofSTEEL08

Also ..that list of Dirty players...Seems to include Some Awfully good players. Sour grape syndrome.

neohionative

FREAKofSTEEL08 said:
Also ..that list of Dirty players...Seems to include Some Awfully good players. Sour grape syndrome.

Hate to say it but he's right. Too many good/ top notch players on that list. It's jealousy, and why hasn't anyone defending this list addressed my point of the overrated player poll from earlier that listed three of the top five nfl qbs rating and stat wise yet? Oh that's right, because it reinforces the idea that jealousy played at least a part in this poll. And I'm sorry but 1/5 of the players in the league is a silly portion when you consider that roughly 1/8 gets annually smoked twice a season by in division rivals, vikings/ packers and bears, steelers/ the browns and bengals, the giants/ the eagles. But as I said it makes Browns fans feel better because we can blame success on cheating, and ignore our own mountain of failure!

FSG

@the-gipper said:
And consider these further names who could be in line for HOF induction over HW or who are contemporaries that may get equal HOF consideration:
Andre Reed

Rod Smith

Tony Gonzales

Joey Galloway

Shannon Sharpe

Irving Fryar

Art Powell

Laverneus Coles

Derrick Mason

TJ Houshmanzadeh

If you took all the people in these two posts how would you rate them for consideration for HOF induction?

While I am going to give you the first set of guys....I agree that Ward has to seperate himself from the pack more in order to get a Gold Jacket (like most of the guys in the first list) This list is far less considerable.

If Ward were to retire today, he would be above any guy on this list....however, he has several years left in his game with a franchise QB. Barring injury, you can expect him to top 1000 catches....12000-14000 receiving yards. Those #'s in conjuction with the SB rings, SB MVP and the physical nature will get him in.

Spunkonmyback DPOY

@dawgtracker said:
I'm not surprised. The hit on Rivers of the bengals was a perfect example. He blindsides the guy with a forearm underneath the helmet and breaks his jaw.
I doubt he is the dirtiest player ever because lineman used to get away with dirty plays almost every down

Don't hate Hines for that hit. Hate the 32 owners for agreeing to a rulebook that makes that type of hit legal. Hate Goodell for making that a legal, unfinable hit. Hines has simply been playing the games by the rules others made up.

You bring up a good point some people just don't get. Lineman always throw forearms. Heck, they hope to give a blindside forearm under someone's chin everytime they pull. When they do it there complimented for a good pull, when Hines does it from a receiver spot he is dirty.

The Gipper

@fsg said:
While I am going to give you the first set of guys....I agree that Ward has to seperate himself from the pack more in order to get a Gold Jacket (like most of the guys in the first list) This list is far less considerable.
If Ward were to retire today, he would be above any guy on this list....however, he has several years left in his game with a franchise QB. Barring injury, you can expect him to top 1000 catches....12000-14000 receiving yards. Those #'s in conjuction with the SB rings, SB MVP and the physical nature will get him in.

I think you may have to take Shannon Sharpe and Tony Gonzales out of this, as they play the TE position rather than Ward's WR position. On the list you quote, I would probably, currently, put Reed and Powell over Ward, but that might be all.

BUNSofSTEEL08

@the-gipper said:
Sorry, but no, I have been to the 88 largest cities in America, and universally it is declared that the Steelers have the most obnoxious fans...and the least knowledgeable.
I am not saying that there aren't a plethora of knowledgeable Steeler fans out there, its just that the dumb obnoxious ones are legion, and as I said, the smart, reasoned ones, perhaps such as yourself, end up being overwhelmed.

You being Retarded man . No offense , your hilarious. Talk about Sour grapes. Yet week after week you hear NFL Announcers and analysts praising Steelernation.... SO You go around handing out surveys in these 88 cities , i imagine. Its this kind of talk that makes you guys look bitter. I am not saying we dont have some Dumb fans. We ALL have some. But I know Far more obnoxious Browns fans in the Mahoning Valley than Poor Steeler Fans. Seriously.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

I don't think it's all sour grapes. Not too many people are jealous of Cortland Finnegan, the Black Mick. People just don't like him because he's dirty. What about Richie Incognito, Harvey Dahl or even Kevin Mawae. Mawae is a great guy, and he's mearing the end of an extremely prolific career in which he never made it to the Super Bowl. I don't think people can hold a grudge against a guy who's basically gotten everywhere on his own merit, and not had the benefit of being on a team stocked with talent from top to bottom. As for Incognito and Dahl, nobody is jealous of them, why would they be? I think this survey holds a pretty good amount of validity to it.

Solon16

@the-gipper said:
OK, I will conduct this exercise myself. This would be my priority list of who is HOF worthy from the names I posted. Please let me know if you think I left anyone off:
1. Jerry Rice

2. Chris Carter

3. Marvin Harrison

4. Tony Gonzales

5. Randy Moss

6. Tim Brown

7. Terrell Owens

8. Shannon Sharpe

9. Isaac Bruce

10. TJ Houshmanzedah

11. Andre Reed

12. Art Powell

13. Hines Ward

14. Tori Holt

15. Muhsin Muhammed

16. Donald Driver

17. Chad Octopussy

18. Irving Fryar

19. Joey Galloway

20. Eric Moulds

21. Laverneus Coles

22. Derrick Mason

1. Jerry Rice

2. Chris Carter

11. Andre Reed

6. Tim Brown

4. Tony Gonzales

13. Hines Ward

5. Randy Moss

8. Shannon Sharpe

14. Tori Holt

7. Terrell Owens > iffy

9. Isaac Bruce

as for the rest...i wouldn't even consider them...maybe fryar...but no

10. TJ Houshmanzedah

12. Art Powell

15. Muhsin Muhammed

16. Donald Driver

17. Chad Octopussy

18. Irving Fryar

19. Joey Galloway

20. Eric Moulds

21. Laverneus Coles

22. Derrick Mason

The Gipper

FREAKofSTEEL08 said:
You being Retarded man . No offense , your hilarious. Talk about Sour grapes. Yet week after week you hear NFL Announcers and analysts praising Steelernation.... SO You go around handing out surveys in these 88 cities , i imagine. Its this kind of talk that makes you guys look bitter. I am not saying we dont have some Dumb fans. We ALL have some. But I know Far more obnoxious Browns fans in the Mahoning Valley than Poor Steeler Fans. Seriously.

I can't help it that you have your head up your Steeler fan ass and see the world through piss colored glasses.

I repeat: Nationwide consensus: dumbest, most obnoxious fans are Steeler fans. (Aside from having the biggest FRAK population.

Pumpkin Eater

The Soldier said:
He is considered dirty because he redefined the position. He started blocking downfield, and not giving up. Defensive backs wer not use to this, so it became an issue. Truth is, he plays the game as it should be played
Fact is, he plays hard. You can blindside a QB can't you? Well, he blindsides players trying to tackle a member of his team with the ball. Its football.

This board defends our "tough" defensive coordinator for talking trash with the opposing team. But a wide reciever that blocks and knocks other players around? Must be dirty.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

redefined hahahahahahahahahaha

Receievers have always blocked down field asshat. Yes, Dirty Hines Ward is "known" as the best blocking wide receiver.. but he certainly wasn't the first and he redefined nothing. Ignoramus.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

Sivlerback DPOY said:
Don't hate Hines for that hit. Hate the 32 owners for agreeing to a rulebook that makes that type of hit legal. Hate Goodell for making that a legal, unfinable hit. Hines has simply been playing the games by the rules others made up.
You bring up a good point some people just don't get. Lineman always throw forearms. Heck, they hope to give a blindside forearm under someone's chin everytime they pull. When they do it there complimented for a good pull, when Hines does it from a receiver spot he is dirty.

There is a difference between a pulling guard running three yards then throwing a forearm into a defensive lineman and a WR having a 15 yard head start and completely blindsiding someone unexpectedly. I get that it's a man's game, but that was a cheap shot. There's a reason they changed the rules because of it.