Steelers did not make it to the play-offs

[calfoxwc]

Rooney is just a goof, a lucky goof at that, but

the squeelers great "org" got pretty lucky. Come on, the "Immaculate Reception" was

genius by the "great org" ?

The Kimo Von Cheapshotten hit on Palmer's knee? And all this crap is condoned by this "great org"

ROF,L.

Besides all that, so many of their fans just belligerantly came on board when they started winning.

I miss the old "I hate the Steelers" emoticon.

[The Gipper]

Formerly Stone said:

Actually they are different but the atrocity that Hitler created is much more real than the spin job some Browns fans put on football. The Browns won four NFL championships! Any city can claim numerous championships by digging and stretching and spinning. Hell, the Lions have won the city of Detroit championship, and the State of Michigan championship, damn near every year.

The only championships that are counted are those in the NFL and the two leagues that merged with the NFL: the AFL and AAFC.

If I had wanted to do it the way you claim I have done it, I could have. I could have included some from defunct leagues and predecessor leagues. The fact of the matter is that the NFL is indeed the successor of the "Ohio League" and some compilations even include the Ohio League titles in their list of Professional Football League titles. And here is that list:

Game scores marked with a † (1921 and 1932) were not official championship games, but were the deciding games in determining a championship and also the last games played in a season.

1902 (NFL1902) - Pittsburgh Stars 11, Philadelphia Athletics 0

1902 (WSF) - All-Syracuse 36, Orange AC 0[1]

1902 (OIC) - Akron East Ends

1903 (WSF) - Franklin Athletic Club 12, Watertown Red & Black 0

1903 (OIC) - Massillon Tigers (8-1-0) 11, Akron East Ends 0

1904 (OIC) - Massillon Tigers (7-0-0) 6, Akron East Ends 5

1905 (OIC) - Massillon Tigers (10-0-0) 10, Canton Bulldogs 0

1906 (OIC) - Massillon Tigers (10-1-0) 13, Canton Bulldogs 6

1907 (OIC) - All-Massillons (7-0-1, won by a common-opponent tiebreaker over the Shelby Blues)

1908 (OIC) - Akron Indians 8-0-1

1909 (OIC) - Akron Indians (9-0-0) 12, Shelby Blues 9

1910 (OIC) - Shelby Blues (14-0-1) 8, Akron Indians 5

1911 (OIC) - Shelby Blues (10-0-0) 1, Canton Bulldogs 0 (forfeit)

1912 (OIC) - Elyria Athletics (8-0-0)

1913 (OIC) - Akron Indians (8-1-2) 20, Shelby Blues 0

1914 (OIC) - Akron Indians (8-2-1) 21, Canton Bulldogs 0

1915 (OIC) - Youngstown Patricians (8-0-1) 13, Washington Vigilants 7

1916 (OIC) - Canton Bulldogs (9-0-1) 24, Massillon Tigers 0

1917 (OIC) - Canton Bulldogs (9-1-0) 7, Detroit Heralds 0

1917 (NYPFL) - All-Tonawanda 9, Rochester Jeffersons 7

1918 (OIC) - Dayton Triangles (8-0-0) 62, Miamis 0

1918 (Buffalo Semi-Pro FL) - Buffalo Niagaras 5-0-0, did not play outside Buffalo due to 1918 flu pandemic

1919 (OIC) - Canton Bulldogs 9-0-1

1919 (NYPFL) - Buffalo Prospects 20, Rochester Jeffersons 0

1920 (APFA) - Akron Pros (8-0-3) 0, Buffalo All-Americans (9-1*-1) 0, Akron wins by virtue of no losses†[2]

1921 (APFA) - Chicago Staleys (10-1-1) 10, Buffalo All-Americans 7†

1922 (NFL) - Canton Bulldogs 10-0-2

1923 (NFL) - Canton Bulldogs 11-0-1

1924 (NFL) - Cleveland Bulldogs 7-1-1[3]

1925 (NFL) - Chicago Cardinals 11-2-1[4]

1926 (NFL) - Frankford Yellow Jackets 14-1-1

1926 (NFL-AFL26 challenge) - New York Giants 31, Philadelphia Quakers 0[5]

1927 (NFL) - New York Giants 11-1-1

1928 (NFL) - Providence Steam Roller 8-1-2

1929 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 12-0-1

1930 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 10-3-1

1931 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 12-2-0

1932 (NFL) - Chicago Bears (7-1-6) 9, Portsmouth Spartans 0†

1933 (NFL) - Chicago Bears 23, New York Giants 21

1934 (NFL) - New York Giants 30, Chicago Bears 13

1935 (NFL) - Detroit Lions 26, New York Giants 7

1936 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 21, Boston Redskins 6

1937 (NFL) - Washington Redskins 28, Chicago Bears 21

1938 (NFL) - New York Giants 23, Green Bay Packers 17

1939 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 27, New York Giants 0

1940 (NFL) - Chicago Bears 73, Washington Redskins 0

1940 (PCFL-AFL40) - Los Angeles Bulldogs (PCFL) 7, Columbus Bullies (AFL40) 0

1941 (AFL40-WIFU) - Columbus Bullies 31, Winnipeg Blue Bombers 1[6]

1941 (NFL) - Chicago Bears 37, New York Giants 9

1942 (NFL) - Washington Redskins 14, Chicago Bears 6

1943 (NFL) - Chicago Bears 41, Washington Redskins 21

1944 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 14, New York Giants 7

1944 (PCFL-AFL44) - Hollywood Rangers (AFL44) 21, San Diego Bombers (PCFL) 10[6]

1945 (NFL) - Cleveland Rams 15, Washington Redskins 14

1946 (AAFC) - Cleveland Browns 14 New York Yankees 9

1946 (NFL) - Chicago Bears 24, New York Giants 14

1947 (AAFC) - Cleveland Browns 14 New York Yankees 3

1947 (NFL) - Chicago Cardinals 28, Philadelphia Eagles 21

1948 (AAFC) - Cleveland Browns 49 Buffalo Bills 7

1948 (NFL) - Philadelphia Eagles 7, Chicago Cardinals 0

1949 (AAFC) - Cleveland Browns 21 San Francisco 49ers 7

1949 (NFL) - Philadelphia Eagles 14, Los Angeles Rams 0

1950 (NFL-AAFC) - Cleveland Browns 35, Philadelphia Eagles 10

1950 (NFL) - Cleveland Browns 30, Los Angeles Rams 28

1951 (NFL) - Los Angeles Rams 24, Cleveland Browns 17

1952 (NFL) - Detroit Lions 17, Cleveland Browns 7

1953 (NFL) - Detroit Lions 17, Cleveland Browns 16

1954 (NFL) - Cleveland Browns 56, Detroit Lions 10

1955 (NFL) - Cleveland Browns 38, Los Angeles Rams 14

1956 (NFL) - New York Giants 47, Chicago Bears 7

1957 (NFL) - Detroit Lions 59, Cleveland Browns 14

1958 (NFL) - Baltimore Colts 23, New York Giants 17 (OT)

1959 (NFL) - Baltimore Colts 31, New York Giants 16

1960 (AFL) - Houston Oilers 24, Los Angeles Chargers 16

1960 (NFL) - Philadelphia Eagles 17, Green Bay Packers 13

1961 (AFL) - Houston Oilers 10, San Diego Chargers 3

1961 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 37, New York Giants 0

1962 (AFL) - Dallas Texans 20, Houston Oilers 17 (double OT)

1962 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 16, New York Giants 7

1963 (AFL) - San Diego Chargers 51, Boston Patriots 10

1963 (NFL) - Chicago Bears 14, New York Giants 10

1964 (AFL) - Buffalo Bills 20, San Diego Chargers 7

1964 (NFL) - Cleveland Browns 27, Baltimore Colts 0

1965 (AFL) - Buffalo Bills 23, San Diego Chargers 0

1965 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 23, Cleveland Browns 12

1966 (AFL) - Kansas City Chiefs 31, Buffalo Bills 7

1966 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 34, Dallas Cowboys 27

1966 1st World Championship (Super Bowl I) - 1/15/67 NFL Green Bay Packers 35, AFL Kansas City Chiefs 10

1967 (AFL) - Oakland Raiders 40, Houston Oilers 7

1967 (NFL) - Green Bay Packers 21, Dallas Cowboys 17

1967 2nd World Championship (Super Bowl II) - 1/14/68 NFL Green Bay Packers 33, AFL Oakland Raiders 14

1968 (AFL) - New York Jets 27, Oakland Raiders 23

1968 (NFL) - Baltimore Colts 34, Cleveland Browns 0

1968 3rd World Championship (Super Bowl III) - 1/12/69 AFL New York Jets 16, NFL Baltimore Colts 7

1969 (AFL) - Kansas City Chiefs 17, Oakland Raiders 7

1969 (NFL) - Minnesota Vikings 27, Cleveland Browns 7

1969 4th World Championship (Super Bowl IV) - 1/11/70 AFL Kansas City Chiefs 23, NFL Minnesota Vikings 7

1970 (NFL) - Super Bowl V - 1/17/71 AFC Baltimore Colts 16, NFC Dallas Cowboys 13

1971 (NFL) - Super Bowl VI - 1/16/72 NFC Dallas Cowboys 24, AFC Miami Dolphins 3

1972 (NFL) - Super Bowl VII - 1/14/73 AFC Miami Dolphins 14, NFC Washington Redskins 7

1973 (NFL) - Super Bowl VIII - 1/13/74 AFC Miami Dolphins 24, NFC Minnesota Vikings 7

1974 (WFL) - World Bowl - 12/5/74 Birmingham Americans 22, Florida Blazers 21

1974 (NFL) - Super Bowl IX - 1/12/75 AFC Pittsburgh Steelers 16, NFC Minnesota Vikings 6

1975 (WFL) - Birmingham Vulcans (9-3) declared regular season champions

1975 (NFL) - Super Bowl X - 1/18/76 AFC Pittsburgh Steelers 21, NFC Dallas Cowboys 17

1976 (NFL) - Super Bowl XI - 1/09/77 AFC Oakland Raiders 32, NFC Minnesota Vikings 14

1977 (NFL) - Super Bowl XII - 1/15/78 NFC Dallas Cowboys 27, AFC Denver Broncos 10

1978 (NFL) - Super Bowl XIII - 1/21/79 AFC Pittsburgh Steelers 35, NFC Dallas Cowboys 31

1979 (NFL) - Super Bowl XIV - 1/20/80 AFC Pittsburgh Steelers 31, NFC Los Angeles Rams19

1980 (NFL) - Super Bowl XV - 1/25/81 AFC Oakland Raiders 27, NFC Philadelphia Eagles 10

1981 (NFL) - Super Bowl XVI - 1/24/82 NFC San Francisco 49ers 26, AFC Cincinnati Bengals 21

1982 (NFL) - Super Bowl XVII - 1/30/83 NFC Washington Redskins 27, AFC Miami Dolphins 17

1983 (USFL) -Michigan Panthers 24, Philadelphia Stars 22

1983 (NFL) - Super Bowl XVIII - 1/22/84 AFC Los Angeles Raiders 38, NFC Washington Redskins 9

1984 (USFL)- Philadelphia Stars 23, Arizona Wranglers 3

1984 (NFL) - Super Bowl XIX - 1/20/85 NFC San Francisco 49ers 38, AFC Miami Dolphins 16

1985 (USFL) - Baltimore Stars 28, Oakland Invaders 24

1985 (NFL) - Super Bowl XX - 1/26/86 NFC Chicago Bears 46, AFC New England Patriots 10

1986 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXI - 1/25/87 NFC New York Giants 39, AFC Denver Broncos 20

1987 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXII - 1/31/88 NFC Washington Redskins 42, AFC Denver Broncos 10

1988 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXIII - 1/22/89 NFC San Francisco 49ers 20, AFC Cincinnati Bengals 16

1989 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXIV - 1/28/90 NFC San Francisco 49ers 55, AFC Denver Broncos 10

1990 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXV - 1/27/91 NFC New York Giants 20, AFC Buffalo Bills 19

1991 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXVI - 1/26/92 NFC Washington Redskins 37, AFC Buffalo Bills 24

1992 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXVII - 1/31/93 NFC Dallas Cowboys 52, AFC Buffalo Bills 17

1993 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXVIII - 1/30/94 NFC Dallas Cowboys 30, AFC Buffalo Bills 13

1994 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXIX - 1/29/95 NFC San Francisco 49ers 49, AFC San Diego Chargers 26

1995 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXX - 1/28/96 NFC Dallas Cowboys 27, AFC Pittsburgh Steelers 17

1996 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXXI - 1/26/97 NFC Green Bay Packers 35, AFC New England Patriots 21

1997 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXXII - 1/25/98 AFC Denver Broncos 31, NFC Green Bay Packers 24

1998 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXXIII - 1/31/99 AFC Denver Broncos 34, NFC Atlanta Falcons 19

1999 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXXIV - 1/30/00 NFC St. Louis Rams 23, AFC Tennessee Titans 16

2000 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXXV - 1/28/01 AFC Baltimore Ravens 34, NFC New York Giants 7

2001 (XFL) - Million Dollar Game - 4/21/01 Los Angeles Xtreme 38, San Francisco Demons 6

2001 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXXVI - 2/03/02 AFC New England Patriots 20, NFC St. Louis Rams 17

2002 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXXVII - 1/26/03 NFC Tampa Bay Buccaneers 48, AFC Oakland Raiders 21

2003 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXXVIII - 2/1/04 AFC New England Patriots 32, NFC Carolina Panthers 29

2004 (NFL) - Super Bowl XXXIX - 2/6/05 AFC New England Patriots 24, NFC Philadelphia Eagles 21

2005 (NFL) - Super Bowl XL - 2/5/06 AFC Pittsburgh Steelers 21, NFC Seattle Seahawks 10

2006 (NFL) - Super Bowl XLI - 2/4/07 AFC Indianapolis Colts 29, NFC Chicago Bears 17

2007 (NFL) - Super Bowl XLII - 2/3/08 NFC New York Giants 17, AFC New England Patriots 14

2008 (NFL) - Super Bowl XLIII - 2/1/09 AFC Pittsburgh Steelers 27, NFC Arizona Cardinals 23

2009 (NFL) - Super Bowl XLIV - Will be played in February of 2010

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

@calfoxwc said:

Rooney is just a goof, a lucky goof at that, but

the squeelers great "org" got pretty lucky. Come on, the "Immaculate Reception" was

genius by the "great org" ?

The Kimo Von Cheapshotten hit on Palmer's knee? And all this crap is condoned by this "great org"

ROF,L.

Besides all that, so many of their fans just belligerantly came on board when they started winning.

I miss the old "I hate the Steelers" emoticon.

LOL... Bitter Pill for a Bitter man. Anyway , the "Immaculate Reception" Got us Nowhere , except our 1st AFC Title game ( Only to lose) Nice story though . Luck ?? Hell yes.

Kimo ( former Teammate and Friend of Palmer , so the Cheap Shot thing is BS) But Luck ??? Hell NO . Just a play that happened on a football field.

The Bungals would have had a hell of a time winning that game anyway. We whipped thier azzzzes at Cincy that year and they Beat us in a Shootout by a TD in a game that Ben tossed 4 Picks. It was however a Grande Start by Carson. And Kitna had them Up 10-0 anyway. But Luck... is a factor in every Championship run. Maybe ONE DAY you will experience it in C-town.

[calfoxwc]

Sorry freakish, no bitterness here.

Just a keen disdain for a whole bunch of johnnycomelately squeeler fans that decided the steelers were going to the super bowl

for the first time, and looney rooney. But, I don't miss Cowher's spittle splashing up on the tv camera's during the superbowls.

I won't miss the worst of steeler trolls when they decide to talk about their own football team somewhere else.

After all, it not our Browns' fault, nor our fault, that the steriodals and their bandwagoner "fans" are so boring they come here

and troll.

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

@calfoxwc said:

Rooney is just a goof, a lucky goof at that, but

the squeelers great "org" got pretty lucky. Come on, the "Immaculate Reception" was

genius by the "great org" ?

The Kimo Von Cheapshotten hit on Palmer's knee? And all this crap is condoned by this "great org"

ROF,L.

Besides all that, so many of their fans just belligerantly came on board when they started winning.

I miss the old "I hate the Steelers" emoticon.

Kimo spent 13 seasons in the NFL. During his long career, there is one, and only one, play that a couple of sore losers claim he intentionally made a dirty hit. Is it rational that after 11 seasons in the NFL he would randomly decide the intentionally injure an opposiing player? No it's not, he doesn't have a history of being dirty, OR even a history of being involved in any type of conserversey. Until a couple sore losers started whining - even though video proof shows Kimo left his block and dove for Palmer when the football was still in his hand. Is it rational to believe a player with a long and classy career would all of the sudden decide to turn on his old team? (Yep, Kimo was drafted by the Bengals and played with them for 6 years - no whining about dirty plays from him then.....) It's certianly not supported by logical evidence; but certianly expected by some Bungal and Browns fans.

I love how you try to attribute our success to luck.....Obviously, there has never been a Super Bowl winning team that was called "unlucky", but you don't build great dynasties without great skills, and a bit of luck never hurts.

[Riffer X]

Kimo was another Roid Monk.

He took his Roid Rage out on Palmer, plain and simple.

[calfoxwc]

Millions of fans saw what they saw.

"Oh, gosh, I didn't want to almost end his career; I just wanted to get him out of the game so we could go to the superbowl,or my fellow steeler players on roids would beat the crap out of me after the game......and his knee accidently shattered."

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

@calfoxwc said:

Millions of fans saw what they saw.

"Oh, gosh, I didn't want to almost end his career; I just wanted to get him out of the game so we could go to the superbowl,or my fellow steeler players on roids would beat the crap out of me after the game......and his knee accidently shattered."

"Millions"...Really? It's more like whiny fans of sucky teams that hate the Steelers. You don't hear Colts, Saints, Jets or Vikings fan doing all this whining. Funny how whining comes mostly from perenial losers.

Again, reguardless of all these "millions" of people's opinions, did Kimo ever have another hit on a player that even raised a bit of conserversy? To say he intentionally tried to injure Palmer doesn't even make sense. He has ZERO history of being dirty, and he has played in many other playoff games before (even deeper in the playoffs and against better qbs than Palmer). If he decided playoff time was "play dirty and intentionally try in injure other players time" how come Palmer is the only player he ever hurt? Never happened to McNair, Brady or Manning. The Steelers were a game away from the Super Bowl in 01 and 04, don't you think that would have been a good time to intentionally try to injure Brady? Again, not even a conserversal play occured in either of these games. If Brady would have went down in the AFC Championship game (or if they didn't use they most elaborate cheating scheme out of all 7 years of cheating in the 04 game) would would have likely won and been in the Super Bowl. Beating the Bungals in the first round didn't lock up our SB chances like winning the AFC Champ game would. Just to make it clear, any number of people can have the same OPINION, that still doesn't override FACT or make their opinions correct. Just think of this past presidental election, you will understand.

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

@riffer-x said:

Kimo was another Roid Monk.

He took his Roid Rage out on Palmer, plain and simple.

If Kimo did use roids, it simply made the matchup between him and Tucker even......

[neohionative]

@the-gipper said:

The only championships that are counted are those in the NFL and the two leagues that merged with the NFL: the AFL and AAFC.

If I had wanted to do it the way you claim I have done it, I could have. I could have included some from defunct leagues and predecessor leagues. The fact of the matter is that the NFL is indeed the successor of the "Ohio League" and some compilations even include the Ohio League titles in their list of Professional Football League titles. And here is that list:

Game scores marked with a † (1921 and 1932) were not official championship games, but were the deciding games in determining a championship and also the last games played in a season.

1902 (NFL1902) - Pittsburgh Stars 11, Philadelphia Athletics 0

There was no NFL in 1902 it was formed in Canton in 1920.

[Spunkonmyback DPOY]

@calfoxwc said:

Rooney is just a goof, a lucky goof at that, but

the squeelers great "org" got pretty lucky. Come on, the "Immaculate Reception" was

genius by the "great org" ?

The Kimo Von Cheapshotten hit on Palmer's knee? And all this crap is condoned by this "great org"

ROF,L.

Besides all that, so many of their fans just belligerantly came on board when they started winning.

I miss the old "I hate the Steelers" emoticon.

[kshutchins]

Formerly Stone said:

See what I mean? Most of the members here seem to spend more time hating some aspect of the Steelers organization or it's fans than they do understanding the Browns ......although Kathy seldom dwells on it like most others.

Kathy, if you think it's tough to handle the fans of a great organization you should try putting up with the disillusion fans of a terrible organization who used to be a great organization ......... eons ago!

Well, I try to avoid the fans that irritate me by staying home. Sadly, the source of my annoyance keeps arriving uninvited, creating a nuisance. Perhaps if you stayed home, your problem and mine would be resolved.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

@calfoxwc said:

Sorry freakish, no bitterness here.

Just a keen disdain for a whole bunch of johnnycomelately squeeler fans that decided the steelers were going to the super bowl

for the first time, and looney rooney. But, I don't miss Cowher's spittle splashing up on the tv camera's during the superbowls.

I won't miss the worst of steeler trolls when they decide to talk about their own football team somewhere else.

After all, it not our Browns' fault, nor our fault, that the steriodals and their bandwagoner "fans" are so boring they come here

and troll.

LOL...BITTER Fan is the Phrase that comes to mind. But you go ahead and live in denial. Its what you do best. This is the only place in America where Obsession on Pittsburgh is Daily and never ending. You embarrass yourselves. DAILY and Never ending so it seems...

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Formerly Stone said:

You're making a big leap in assuming he is a man! That much whining could only come from a spoiled brat.

You got me there Stoney... A Kid a wench or a Cross dressing Homo... Much larger possibilities of being accurate.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

Formerly Stone said:

Funny how you would count AAFC titles but when it is pointed out that the Browns weren't the undisputed champions in 1964 because the Buffalo Bills won the AFL title in 1964 Browns fans will rush to tell you that the AFL didn't count.

Things that make you go hmmm...

[Tim Couch Pulls Out]

Formerly Stone said:

You're making a big leap in assuming he is a man! That much whining could only come from a spoiled brat.

It's cute how you two converse. You're like soul mates. All you have is each other.

It's really just like a Lifetime movie.

[The Gipper]

@neohionative said:

There was no NFL in 1902 it was formed in Canton in 1920.

Right, which is why I don't count it. I only count the NFL and leagues that merged with it.

[The Gipper]

Formerly Stone said:

Funny how you would count AAFC titles but when it is pointed out that the Browns weren't the undisputed champions in 1964 because the Buffalo Bills won the AFL title in 1964 Browns fans will rush to tell you that the AFL didn't count.

I don't know any Browns fans that say the AFL didn't count? Any more than they would think the Eagles title of 1948 wouldn't count. They say that they think if the Browns and Bills played that they believe the Browns would have won, but that is all speculation. The AFL, and the Bills 1964 title do count.

[BUNSofSTEEL08]

@the-gipper said:

Right, which is why I don't count it. I only count the NFL and leagues that merged with it.

Gip the AAFC didnt merge with it. Teams FROM the AAFC were granted entry , but not even Half of them... not a merger. I see what your saying though.

[The Gipper]

FREAKofSTEEL08 said:

Gip the AAFC didnt merge with it. Teams FROM the AAFC were granted entry , but not even Half of them... not a merger. I see what your saying though.

Most sources call it a merger. You can call it an absorption. It was as much of one as when the ABA "merged"/was absorbed by the NBA, or when the WHA "merged/was absorbed by the NHL.

In the history of all major professional sports in this country, the only "new leagues" to maintain any sort of continuing identity if you will were the American League in Baseball, and the AFL in football which morphed into the AFC.

(If you think about it, I personally prefer the retention of those identities. I don't like the NBA and NHL deals where East must always meet West. It is more interesting to have the possibility say of a New York/New York or San Francisco/Oakland World Series or Super Bowl. In the NBA/NHL you always have to have one team from the East and one team from the West.)