Who's the Best

Thaak

Homotron said:
lol alright. I made the comment based on your inability to A. Name a player even if it's just one for certain positions and placing a guy like Jennings in the top 2 for WR's in the NFL. Jennings over Fitzgerald? What crack are you smoking? I also play fantasy football and all that does is ensure you know the "skill positions" and nothing more. Your slew of chest puffing above is no different than saying you know football because you play a lot of Madden. lol. Either way you're entitled to your opinion.

Never said I was an expert all things NFL. But most people who spend 5 minutes talking to be about football, realize that I do know quite a bunch. About more than skill positions. Just because I don't follow the names of Guards and Right Tackles doesn't mean that I am football stupid. I am also at work, and a more comprehensive list of players at positions will have to wait until later.

Vagitron

@thaak said:
Never said I was an expert all things NFL. But most people who spend 5 minutes talking to be about football, realize that I do know quite a bunch. About more than skill positions. Just because I don't follow the names of Guards and Right Tackles doesn't mean that I am football stupid. I am also at work, and a more comprehensive list of players at positions will have to wait until later.

Didn't say you were stupid just implied that based on your first list it didn't seem like you watched a bunch of football. The most glaring the Jennings inclusion but either way.

Vagitron

QB: Big Ben (Homer pick obviously but he's top 5 and I wouldn't trade him for any other QB) Brees would be second.

RB: Adrian Peterson

FB: Tony Richardson or Lousaka Polite

TE: Jason Witten or yes Heath Miller (Heath will have a ton of catches this year and he can block)

WR1: Andre Johnson

WR2: Larry Fitzgerald or Moss

LT: Ryan Clady but Joe Thomas is also up here

LG: Ben Grubbs

Nick Mangold

RG: Jahari Evans

RT: John Stichcomb I guess

DT/NG 1: Casey Hampton

DT/NG 2: Shaun Rogers (when he's not carrying guns around)

DE1: Jared Allen

DE2: Justin Tuck (But Aaron Smith deserves mention here as in my opinion the best 3-4 end in the league. 4-3 ends get all the publicity because of their need to rush the passer rather than the LB's.

OLB1: James Harrison

OLB2: Demarcus Ware

MLB1: Patrick Willis

MLB2: Tough call here but I'm leaning Demeco Ryans but Jon Beason has to be up there as well.

CB1: Revis

CB2: Asomugha

FS: Ed Reed but he's on the verge of retirement if he keeps getting banged up.

SS: Troy Polamalu

K: Defer to Madden (I also don't care)

P: Defer to Madden (See above)

LS: Greg Warren lol (don't care)

KR: Josh Cribbs

blowe

The question I am asking here is simply: Who do you think is the best player in the NFL at each position? I heard a bit of a debate on the radio about a specific position but I thought I would see what people thought about all positions. So, tell us what you think. Here are the positions, tell who you think is best:

QB: Josh Cribbs

RB: Josh Cribbs

FB: Josh Cribbs

TE: Josh Cribbs

WR1: Josh Cribbs

WR2: Josh Cribbs

LT: Josh Cribbs

LG: Josh Cribbs

Josh Cribbs

RG: Josh Cribbs

RT: Josh Cribbs

DT/NG 1: Josh Cribbs

DT/NG 2: Josh Cribbs

DE1: Josh Cribbs

DE2: Josh Cribbs

OLB1: Josh Cribbs

OLB2: Josh Cribbs

MLB1: Josh Cribbs

MLB2: Josh Cribbs

CB1: Josh Cribbs

CB2: Josh Cribbs

FS: Josh Cribbs

SS: Josh Cribbs

K: Josh Cribbs

P: Josh Cribbs

LS: Josh Cribbs

KR: Josh Cribbs

Vagitron

Zombo said:
Homotron earns his ID once again...
You realize Peyton Manning may just become the greatest QB of all time, right? And you've heard of Tom Brady?

Please ... Roethlisberger would get sacked trying to pick up their jocks.

Zombo

What part of Homer pick didn't you read? Should I have overreacted with Thaak picking Lawrence Vickers or Alex Mack? HOMER PICK! HOMER PICK! HOMER PICK! did you read it that time? I gave you 4 opportunities. However I'd rather have Big Ben than any of the QB's listed above. Peyton Manning finally won his super bowl but he was a choke artist up until that point. Tom Brady is a cry baby lady. We'll also see when the dust settles who stands where in the final rank order. Big Ben is a good bit younger than both and already has two Super Bowls. He's certainly a elite QB in this league. ONCE AGAIN HOMER PICK! that's 5 times.

Vagitron

Zombo said:
Peyton Manning a choke artist? All he does is win! So he hasn't had the defense to win multiple championships yet ... He shits out 12 wins a year just on offense. If the Colts and Steelers switched defenses the past decade, he'd have 7 or 8 rings ... choke artist my ass!
Brady a cry baby Lady? Dude is tough as nails. He didn't ride along to his first Super Bowl like young Ben, he picked his team up and carried them there! He's as tough as they come.

Not ONE GM in the league would trade Brady or Manning for Ben straight up DESPITE the age difference. Not too mention that they are solid citizens and happily married men raising families while Ben took on the responsibility of being the Face of the Franchise to mean "stick my dick wherever i want whenever I want".

Please ... I'm going to puke!

Zombo

I'm not going to waste my time debating this but Peyton Manning was to blame for a few of those late playoff losses and Tom Brady does cry every chance he gets. Let's not forget manning blaming his OFFENSIVE LINE for his blunders. Once again his OFFENSIVE LINE! as in the offense failed and it wasn't Peyton's fault but rather his o-line. No mention of defense which has been pretty solid all things considered.

WRREBEL

Peyton manning is not only the best qb but best player in the nfl. If I had to chose one player to lead my team it would be him.

The Gipper

Zombo said:
Homotron earns his ID once again...
You realize Peyton Manning may just become the greatest QB of all time, right? And you've heard of Tom Brady?

Please ... Roethlisberger would get sacked trying to pick up their jocks.

Zombo

Top 5, not. (Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, McNabb) Top 10, probably

Vagitron

@the-gipper said:
Top 5, not. (Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, McNabb) Top 10, probably

Rodgers so far has done nothing and McNabb? Why do people routinely put him in the top 5. What has he done lately? I would put Rodgers in the top 5 but McNabb certainly no longer belongs in that group.

samoth

QB: Peyton Manning

RB: Chris Johnson

FB: Lawrence Vickers

TE: Tony Gonzales

WR1: Randy Moss

WR2: OchoCinco

LT: Joe Thomas

LG: Steve Hutchinson

Nick Mangold

RG: Chris Snee

RT: Stinchomb

DT/NG 1: Shaun Rogers

DT/NG 2: Krisco Jenkins

DE1: Jared Allen

DE2: Aaron Schobel (PLEASE keep playing)

OLB1: DeMarcus Ware

OLB2: Lamaar Woodley

MLB1: Patrick Willis

MLB2: Jon Beason

CB1: Nmadi Asmougah

CB2: Darrel Revis

FS: Ed Reed

SS: Troy Polamalu

K: Bironas

P: Mat McBriar

LS: Pontbriand

KR: Josh Cribbs

Vagitron

Zombo said:
Quarterbacks better than Roethlisberger:
1. Manning

2. Brady

3. Brees

4. Favre

5. Kurt Warner when he unretires

6. Rodgers

7. Romo

8. Schaub

9. Rivers

10th ... I think I'd go with Carson Palmer, Eli Maning or a healthy Matt Hassleback over Ben ... at least they will be there for their team the whole season....

Zombo

Based on what? Your hate for the Steelers? Get real.

CLEVELandMILIDH

@the-gipper said:
The question I am asking here is simply: Who do you think is the best player in the NFL at each position? I heard a bit of a debate on the radio about a specific position but I thought I would see what people thought about all positions. So, tell us what you think. Here are the positions, tell who you think is best:
QB: Peyton Manning

RB: Marshawn Lynch

FB: Lawerence Vickers

TE: Kellen Winslow

WR1: Brandon Marshall

WR2: Andre Johnson

LT: Joe Thomas

LG: Jahri Evans

Nick Mangold

RG: Alan Faneca

RT: D'Brickashaw Ferguson

DT/NG 1: Haloti Ngata

DT/NG 2: Casey Hampton

DE1: Jared Allen

DE2: Julius Peppers

OLB1: Terrell Suggs

OLB2: Lamar Woodley

MLB1: Patrick Willis

MLB2: Ray Lewis

CB1: Nnamdi Asomugha

CB2: Darrel Revis

FS: Troy Polamalu

SS: Adrian Wilson

K: Phil Dawson

P:

LS: Ryan Pontbriand

KR: Josh Cribbs

The only place I know that might give some clue is the Madden site:

http://www.operationsports.com/newspost.php?id=421289

Don't know if it is helpful.

Thaak

Other than the TD plus for Fitzgerald, very comparable between the two. And if you guys get to exclude guys like Ray Lewis because he's old, then I get to consider who's throwing the ball to the WR for this season.

In this case, Fitzgerald has Weemus the Titmouse throwing to him, and Jennings has Aaron "Fricken" Rodgers throwing to him.

Jennings hands down.

Greg Jennings 68 1113 16.4 4

Larry Fitzgerald 97 1092 11.3 13

Vagitron

Zombo said:

I've already explained Maning and Brady.

Brees, Favre and Warner go without saying.

Rodgers is better all round, emerging superstar.

Romo has ratings in the 90's four straight years and gets sacked half as much as Ben.

Schaub, like Rogers, is rocketing past Ben, 4770 yards last year, his third as a starter.

Rivers has a career rating of 95.8 and has never gotten sacked more than 27 times in one season

The other three guys, Ben rivals in talent, but like I said, they didn't let their team down by missing the first month.

And I forgot McNabb who has been doing it year in and year out for much longer than Ben.

So that's what ... 13 guys I'd rather see at quarterback than ben? I'm dead serious.

Zombo

Not even worth arguing. You'd lose any self respecting football fan outside of Cleveland the second you mention Schaub, Romo or Rivers ahead of Ben. Romo is a serial choker, Rivers routinely does the same and Schaub's Texans for the first time made the playoffs this past season. Warner has won his super bowls but he's not half the athlete and he was outplayed in the Cards/Steelers Super Bowl. I could go all day with this but in the end I'd just be wasting my time. Big Ben will have several Super Bowls before he retires and the Rooneys had a hand in his suspension otherwise I don't believe he would have been suspended at all. FIrst time in NFL history a player has been suspended without a conviction and even then the 4 games is pretty damn harsh. The Rooney's wanted him suspended and in the end I believe it will save his career. I hope you enjoy getting thrown all over.

Thaak

Homotron said:
Not even worth arguing. You'd lose any self respecting football fan outside of Cleveland the second you mention Schaub, Romo or Rivers ahead of Ben. Romo is a serial choker, Rivers routinely does the same and Schaub's Texans for the first time made the playoffs this past season. Warner has won his super bowls but he's not half the athlete and he was outplayed in the Cards/Steelers Super Bowl. I could go all day with this but in the end I'd just be wasting my time. Big Ben will have several Super Bowls before he retires and the Rooneys had a hand in his suspension otherwise I don't believe he would have been suspended at all. FIrst time in NFL history a player has been suspended without a conviction and even then the 4 games is pretty damn harsh. The Rooney's wanted him suspended and in the end I believe it will save his career. I hope you enjoy getting thrown all over.

Really? You live in or ever been to any other city and had extensive conversations with those people in those cities regarding exactly this?

I have. I've lived in Minnesota for 10 years now. There isn't a lot of respect for Ben up here.

Vagitron

@thaak said:
Other than the TD plus for Fitzgerald, very comparable between the two. And if you guys get to exclude guys like Ray Lewis because he's old, then I get to consider who's throwing the ball to the WR for this season.
In this case, Fitzgerald has Weemus the Titmouse throwing to him, and Jennings has Aaron "Fricken" Rodgers throwing to him.

Jennings hands down.

Greg Jennings 68 1113 16.4 4

Larry Fitzgerald 97 1092 11.3 13

We're talking CURRENT physical intangibles. Ray Lewis is a savvy veteran but he's no where near the same caliber athlete as Patrick Willis for example. In his prime absolutely but Lewis is no longer the best at his position. Greg Jennings also isn't the athlete that Fitz is....

PackFanPerson

I can see Asomugha, but I'd take Charles Woodson over Revis any day of the week. Revis is a very talented kid, but he's behaving like a whiney little bitch right now, and whiney little bitches don't help their teams win games.

Vagitron

@packfanperson said:
I can see Asomugha, but I'd take Charles Woodson over Revis any day of the week. Revis is a very talented kid, but he's behaving like a whiney little bitch right now, and whiney little bitches don't help their teams win games.

You know I agree and disagree. If he's the best corner in the NFL and I think he is why shouldn't he be paid now when he's healthy rather than later when he may get hurt. If a owner can just say "Well you aren't helping us anymore, see you later" why can't a player demand "market value" for their services? Do hold outs suck? Absolutely but a NFL players shelf life can be changed in one game. If I'm the best at my position I'm going to want to be paid accordingly. However once again this list is about who is best at their position and Revis is certainly better than Woodson.

PackFanPerson

Homotron said:
You know I agree and disagree. If he's the best corner in the NFL and I think he is why should he be paid now when he's healthy rather than later when he may get hurt. If a owner cut just say "Well you aren't helping us anymore, see you later" why can't a player demand "market value" for their services? Do hold outs suck? Absolutely but a NFL players shelf life can be changed in one game. If I'm the best at my position I'm going to want to be paid accordingly. However once again this list is about who is best at their position and Revis is certainly better than Woodson.

I respectfully disagree about Revis being better than Woodson because I'm a homer. LOL!

I understand and agree with your points concerning the possibility of short careers etc, but I certainly think some of the younger players listen to their agents a bit too much.

Thaak

Homotron said:
We're talking CURRENT physical intangibles. Ray Lewis is a savvy veteran but he's no where near the same caliber athlete as Patrick Willis for example. In his prime absolutely but Lewis is no longer the best at his position. Greg Jennings also isn't the athlete that Fitz is....

You know, I got into an argument about this once before, with I think a Steelers fan. Kinda ironic I think.

How do I define "best player?" Well you obviously define it based on last years stats.

Lewis had 134 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 forced fumbles

Willis had 152 tackles, 4 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, and 3 interceptions.

Looking at the stats, Willis had a better year in 2009. However, Lewis has, year in, and year out, put up those kinds of numbers. When Willis has the kind of Career that Lewis has had, and can still do it at this high of a level in his 14th (arguably Lewis's 2nd best season to date) season, then come talk to me. Not only that, but Lewis is the field general on one of the perennially best defenses in the NFL. Willis is a really good ILB on what hasn't been that strong of a defense. Its like saying that DQJ's NFL leading tackles makes him a better ILB than Lewis.

And the "better athlete" or "measurable" argument is straight up silly. Ryan Leaf had prototypical measurables, and he sucked. Vick is the best athlete to play pro ball in a long long time, and he isn't that great at actually playing football. Sure, his athletics covers up for a lot of his lack of football savvy, moreso than most great athletes might be able to. But he's still just an athlete, not a good football player.

Bernie Kosar was a crap athlete, and for a few years in the late 80's, an exceptional QB and football player.

So how do you define best? I'm willing to let you argue for Willis, as he's a very good ILB. But to tell me I'm silly for arguing for Lewis, is, well silly.

By your argument, I could say that Moss shouldn't be on the list, yet you put him tentatively on yours.

The point being, that EVERYTHING factors into whether in any given year a football player will be good. There are literally hundreds of factors that figure into this. When a player can overcome all the factors and be good year in, and year out, then that is what defines greatness.

I'm not saying Jennings is there yet. I'm not saying that Jennings has had a better overall career that Fitzgerald.

But you don't get to have it both ways. You can't say that Lewis isn't in the running based on the past, but say Fitzgerald is.

I can say that Lewis is in, because I'm not saying it based on the past. I think the dude still has got "IT".

I think that Jennings will be the better WR in 2010, mostly due to circumstances. But that may mean the entire implosion of Fitzgerald's career, and the incredible blossoming of Jennings.