Who's the Best
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Zombo said:
Homotron earns his ID once again...You realize Peyton Manning may just become the greatest QB of all time, right? And you've heard of Tom Brady?
Please ... Roethlisberger would get sacked trying to pick up their jocks.
Zombo
What part of Homer pick didn't you read? Should I have overreacted with Thaak picking Lawrence Vickers or Alex Mack? HOMER PICK! HOMER PICK! HOMER PICK! did you read it that time? I gave you 4 opportunities. However I'd rather have Big Ben than any of the QB's listed above. Peyton Manning finally won his super bowl but he was a choke artist up until that point. Tom Brady is a cry baby lady. We'll also see when the dust settles who stands where in the final rank order. Big Ben is a good bit younger than both and already has two Super Bowls. He's certainly a elite QB in this league. ONCE AGAIN HOMER PICK! that's 5 times.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Zombo said:
Peyton Manning a choke artist? All he does is win! So he hasn't had the defense to win multiple championships yet ... He shits out 12 wins a year just on offense. If the Colts and Steelers switched defenses the past decade, he'd have 7 or 8 rings ... choke artist my ass!Brady a cry baby Lady? Dude is tough as nails. He didn't ride along to his first Super Bowl like young Ben, he picked his team up and carried them there! He's as tough as they come.
Not ONE GM in the league would trade Brady or Manning for Ben straight up DESPITE the age difference. Not too mention that they are solid citizens and happily married men raising families while Ben took on the responsibility of being the Face of the Franchise to mean "stick my dick wherever i want whenever I want".
Please ... I'm going to puke!
Zombo
I'm not going to waste my time debating this but Peyton Manning was to blame for a few of those late playoff losses and Tom Brady does cry every chance he gets. Let's not forget manning blaming his OFFENSIVE LINE for his blunders. Once again his OFFENSIVE LINE! as in the offense failed and it wasn't Peyton's fault but rather his o-line. No mention of defense which has been pretty solid all things considered.
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Zombo said:
Homotron earns his ID once again...You realize Peyton Manning may just become the greatest QB of all time, right? And you've heard of Tom Brady?
Please ... Roethlisberger would get sacked trying to pick up their jocks.
Zombo
Top 5, not. (Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, McNabb) Top 10, probably
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Zombo said:
Homotron earns his ID once again...You realize Peyton Manning may just become the greatest QB of all time, right? And you've heard of Tom Brady?
Please ... Roethlisberger would get sacked trying to pick up their jocks.
Zombo
Top 5, not. (Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, McNabb) Top 10, probably
Top 5, not. (Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, McNabb) Top 10, probably
Rodgers so far has done nothing and McNabb? Why do people routinely put him in the top 5. What has he done lately? I would put Rodgers in the top 5 but McNabb certainly no longer belongs in that group.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
QB: Peyton Manning
RB: Chris Johnson
FB: Lawrence Vickers
TE: Tony Gonzales
WR1: Randy Moss
WR2: OchoCinco
LT: Joe Thomas
LG: Steve Hutchinson
Nick MangoldRG: Chris Snee
RT: Stinchomb
DT/NG 1: Shaun Rogers
DT/NG 2: Krisco Jenkins
DE1: Jared Allen
DE2: Aaron Schobel (PLEASE keep playing)
OLB1: DeMarcus Ware
OLB2: Lamaar Woodley
MLB1: Patrick Willis
MLB2: Jon Beason
CB1: Nmadi Asmougah
CB2: Darrel Revis
FS: Ed Reed
SS: Troy Polamalu
K: Bironas
P: Mat McBriar
LS: Pontbriand
KR: Josh Cribbs
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Zombo said:
Quarterbacks better than Roethlisberger:1. Manning
2. Brady
3. Brees
4. Favre
5. Kurt Warner when he unretires
6. Rodgers
7. Romo
8. Schaub
9. Rivers
10th ... I think I'd go with Carson Palmer, Eli Maning or a healthy Matt Hassleback over Ben ... at least they will be there for their team the whole season....
Zombo
Based on what? Your hate for the Steelers? Get real.
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The question I am asking here is simply: Who do you think is the best player in the NFL at each position? I heard a bit of a debate on the radio about a specific position but I thought I would see what people thought about all positions. So, tell us what you think. Here are the positions, tell who you think is best:
QB:
RB:
FB:
TE:
WR1:
WR2:
LT:
LG:
RG:
RT:
DT/NG 1:
DT/NG 2:
DE1:
DE2:
OLB1:
OLB2:
MLB1:
MLB2:
CB1:
CB2:
FS:
SS:
K:
P:
LS:
KR:
The only place I know that might give some clue is the Madden site:
http://www.operationsports.com/newspost.php?id=421289
Don't know if it is helpful.
The question I am asking here is simply: Who do you think is the best player in the NFL at each position? I heard a bit of a debate on the radio about a specific position but I thought I would see what people thought about all positions. So, tell us what you think. Here are the positions, tell who you think is best:
QB: Peyton Manning
RB: Marshawn Lynch
FB: Lawerence Vickers
TE: Kellen Winslow
WR1: Brandon Marshall
WR2: Andre Johnson
LT: Joe Thomas
LG: Jahri Evans
Nick MangoldRG: Alan Faneca
RT: D'Brickashaw Ferguson
DT/NG 1: Haloti Ngata
DT/NG 2: Casey Hampton
DE1: Jared Allen
DE2: Julius Peppers
OLB1: Terrell Suggs
OLB2: Lamar Woodley
MLB1: Patrick Willis
MLB2: Ray Lewis
CB1: Nnamdi Asomugha
CB2: Darrel Revis
FS: Troy Polamalu
SS: Adrian Wilson
K: Phil Dawson
P:
LS: Ryan Pontbriand
KR: Josh Cribbs
The only place I know that might give some clue is the Madden site:
http://www.operationsports.com/newspost.php?id=421289
Don't know if it is helpful.
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Other than the TD plus for Fitzgerald, very comparable between the two. And if you guys get to exclude guys like Ray Lewis because he's old, then I get to consider who's throwing the ball to the WR for this season.
In this case, Fitzgerald has Weemus the Titmouse throwing to him, and Jennings has Aaron "Fricken" Rodgers throwing to him.
Jennings hands down.
Greg Jennings 68 1113 16.4 4
Larry Fitzgerald 97 1092 11.3 13
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Zombo said:
I've already explained Maning and Brady.
Brees, Favre and Warner go without saying.
Rodgers is better all round, emerging superstar.
Romo has ratings in the 90's four straight years and gets sacked half as much as Ben.
Schaub, like Rogers, is rocketing past Ben, 4770 yards last year, his third as a starter.
Rivers has a career rating of 95.8 and has never gotten sacked more than 27 times in one season
The other three guys, Ben rivals in talent, but like I said, they didn't let their team down by missing the first month.
And I forgot McNabb who has been doing it year in and year out for much longer than Ben.
So that's what ... 13 guys I'd rather see at quarterback than ben? I'm dead serious.
Zombo
Not even worth arguing. You'd lose any self respecting football fan outside of Cleveland the second you mention Schaub, Romo or Rivers ahead of Ben. Romo is a serial choker, Rivers routinely does the same and Schaub's Texans for the first time made the playoffs this past season. Warner has won his super bowls but he's not half the athlete and he was outplayed in the Cards/Steelers Super Bowl. I could go all day with this but in the end I'd just be wasting my time. Big Ben will have several Super Bowls before he retires and the Rooneys had a hand in his suspension otherwise I don't believe he would have been suspended at all. FIrst time in NFL history a player has been suspended without a conviction and even then the 4 games is pretty damn harsh. The Rooney's wanted him suspended and in the end I believe it will save his career. I hope you enjoy getting thrown all over.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Zombo said:
I've already explained Maning and Brady.
Brees, Favre and Warner go without saying.
Rodgers is better all round, emerging superstar.
Romo has ratings in the 90's four straight years and gets sacked half as much as Ben.
Schaub, like Rogers, is rocketing past Ben, 4770 yards last year, his third as a starter.
Rivers has a career rating of 95.8 and has never gotten sacked more than 27 times in one season
The other three guys, Ben rivals in talent, but like I said, they didn't let their team down by missing the first month.
And I forgot McNabb who has been doing it year in and year out for much longer than Ben.
So that's what ... 13 guys I'd rather see at quarterback than ben? I'm dead serious.
Zombo
Not even worth arguing. You'd lose any self respecting football fan outside of Cleveland the second you mention Schaub, Romo or Rivers ahead of Ben. Romo is a serial choker, Rivers routinely does the same and Schaub's Texans for the first time made the playoffs this past season. Warner has won his super bowls but he's not half the athlete and he was outplayed in the Cards/Steelers Super Bowl. I could go all day with this but in the end I'd just be wasting my time. Big Ben will have several Super Bowls before he retires and the Rooneys had a hand in his suspension otherwise I don't believe he would have been suspended at all. FIrst time in NFL history a player has been suspended without a conviction and even then the 4 games is pretty damn harsh. The Rooney's wanted him suspended and in the end I believe it will save his career. I hope you enjoy getting thrown all over.
Homotron said:
Not even worth arguing. You'd lose any self respecting football fan outside of Cleveland the second you mention Schaub, Romo or Rivers ahead of Ben. Romo is a serial choker, Rivers routinely does the same and Schaub's Texans for the first time made the playoffs this past season. Warner has won his super bowls but he's not half the athlete and he was outplayed in the Cards/Steelers Super Bowl. I could go all day with this but in the end I'd just be wasting my time. Big Ben will have several Super Bowls before he retires and the Rooneys had a hand in his suspension otherwise I don't believe he would have been suspended at all. FIrst time in NFL history a player has been suspended without a conviction and even then the 4 games is pretty damn harsh. The Rooney's wanted him suspended and in the end I believe it will save his career. I hope you enjoy getting thrown all over.Really? You live in or ever been to any other city and had extensive conversations with those people in those cities regarding exactly this?
I have. I've lived in Minnesota for 10 years now. There isn't a lot of respect for Ben up here.
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Other than the TD plus for Fitzgerald, very comparable between the two. And if you guys get to exclude guys like Ray Lewis because he's old, then I get to consider who's throwing the ball to the WR for this season.
In this case, Fitzgerald has Weemus the Titmouse throwing to him, and Jennings has Aaron "Fricken" Rodgers throwing to him.
Jennings hands down.
Greg Jennings 68 1113 16.4 4
Larry Fitzgerald 97 1092 11.3 13
Other than the TD plus for Fitzgerald, very comparable between the two. And if you guys get to exclude guys like Ray Lewis because he's old, then I get to consider who's throwing the ball to the WR for this season.
In this case, Fitzgerald has Weemus the Titmouse throwing to him, and Jennings has Aaron "Fricken" Rodgers throwing to him.
Jennings hands down.
Greg Jennings 68 1113 16.4 4
Larry Fitzgerald 97 1092 11.3 13
We're talking CURRENT physical intangibles. Ray Lewis is a savvy veteran but he's no where near the same caliber athlete as Patrick Willis for example. In his prime absolutely but Lewis is no longer the best at his position. Greg Jennings also isn't the athlete that Fitz is....
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
I can see Asomugha, but I'd take Charles Woodson over Revis any day of the week. Revis is a very talented kid, but he's behaving like a whiney little bitch right now, and whiney little bitches don't help their teams win games.
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I can see Asomugha, but I'd take Charles Woodson over Revis any day of the week. Revis is a very talented kid, but he's behaving like a whiney little bitch right now, and whiney little bitches don't help their teams win games.
I can see Asomugha, but I'd take Charles Woodson over Revis any day of the week. Revis is a very talented kid, but he's behaving like a whiney little bitch right now, and whiney little bitches don't help their teams win games.
You know I agree and disagree. If he's the best corner in the NFL and I think he is why shouldn't he be paid now when he's healthy rather than later when he may get hurt. If a owner can just say "Well you aren't helping us anymore, see you later" why can't a player demand "market value" for their services? Do hold outs suck? Absolutely but a NFL players shelf life can be changed in one game. If I'm the best at my position I'm going to want to be paid accordingly. However once again this list is about who is best at their position and Revis is certainly better than Woodson.
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I can see Asomugha, but I'd take Charles Woodson over Revis any day of the week. Revis is a very talented kid, but he's behaving like a whiney little bitch right now, and whiney little bitches don't help their teams win games.
You know I agree and disagree. If he's the best corner in the NFL and I think he is why shouldn't he be paid now when he's healthy rather than later when he may get hurt. If a owner can just say "Well you aren't helping us anymore, see you later" why can't a player demand "market value" for their services? Do hold outs suck? Absolutely but a NFL players shelf life can be changed in one game. If I'm the best at my position I'm going to want to be paid accordingly. However once again this list is about who is best at their position and Revis is certainly better than Woodson.
Homotron said:
You know I agree and disagree. If he's the best corner in the NFL and I think he is why should he be paid now when he's healthy rather than later when he may get hurt. If a owner cut just say "Well you aren't helping us anymore, see you later" why can't a player demand "market value" for their services? Do hold outs suck? Absolutely but a NFL players shelf life can be changed in one game. If I'm the best at my position I'm going to want to be paid accordingly. However once again this list is about who is best at their position and Revis is certainly better than Woodson.I respectfully disagree about Revis being better than Woodson because I'm a homer. LOL!
I understand and agree with your points concerning the possibility of short careers etc, but I certainly think some of the younger players listen to their agents a bit too much.
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Other than the TD plus for Fitzgerald, very comparable between the two. And if you guys get to exclude guys like Ray Lewis because he's old, then I get to consider who's throwing the ball to the WR for this season.
In this case, Fitzgerald has Weemus the Titmouse throwing to him, and Jennings has Aaron "Fricken" Rodgers throwing to him.
Jennings hands down.
Greg Jennings 68 1113 16.4 4
Larry Fitzgerald 97 1092 11.3 13
We're talking CURRENT physical intangibles. Ray Lewis is a savvy veteran but he's no where near the same caliber athlete as Patrick Willis for example. In his prime absolutely but Lewis is no longer the best at his position. Greg Jennings also isn't the athlete that Fitz is....
Homotron said:
We're talking CURRENT physical intangibles. Ray Lewis is a savvy veteran but he's no where near the same caliber athlete as Patrick Willis for example. In his prime absolutely but Lewis is no longer the best at his position. Greg Jennings also isn't the athlete that Fitz is....You know, I got into an argument about this once before, with I think a Steelers fan. Kinda ironic I think.
How do I define "best player?" Well you obviously define it based on last years stats.
Lewis had 134 tackles, 3 sacks, 2 forced fumbles
Willis had 152 tackles, 4 sacks, 3 forced fumbles, and 3 interceptions.
Looking at the stats, Willis had a better year in 2009. However, Lewis has, year in, and year out, put up those kinds of numbers. When Willis has the kind of Career that Lewis has had, and can still do it at this high of a level in his 14th (arguably Lewis's 2nd best season to date) season, then come talk to me. Not only that, but Lewis is the field general on one of the perennially best defenses in the NFL. Willis is a really good ILB on what hasn't been that strong of a defense. Its like saying that DQJ's NFL leading tackles makes him a better ILB than Lewis.
And the "better athlete" or "measurable" argument is straight up silly. Ryan Leaf had prototypical measurables, and he sucked. Vick is the best athlete to play pro ball in a long long time, and he isn't that great at actually playing football. Sure, his athletics covers up for a lot of his lack of football savvy, moreso than most great athletes might be able to. But he's still just an athlete, not a good football player.
Bernie Kosar was a crap athlete, and for a few years in the late 80's, an exceptional QB and football player.
So how do you define best? I'm willing to let you argue for Willis, as he's a very good ILB. But to tell me I'm silly for arguing for Lewis, is, well silly.
By your argument, I could say that Moss shouldn't be on the list, yet you put him tentatively on yours.
The point being, that EVERYTHING factors into whether in any given year a football player will be good. There are literally hundreds of factors that figure into this. When a player can overcome all the factors and be good year in, and year out, then that is what defines greatness.
I'm not saying Jennings is there yet. I'm not saying that Jennings has had a better overall career that Fitzgerald.
But you don't get to have it both ways. You can't say that Lewis isn't in the running based on the past, but say Fitzgerald is.
I can say that Lewis is in, because I'm not saying it based on the past. I think the dude still has got "IT".
I think that Jennings will be the better WR in 2010, mostly due to circumstances. But that may mean the entire implosion of Fitzgerald's career, and the incredible blossoming of Jennings.
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Zombo said:
Homotron earns his ID once again...You realize Peyton Manning may just become the greatest QB of all time, right? And you've heard of Tom Brady?
Please ... Roethlisberger would get sacked trying to pick up their jocks.
Zombo
What part of Homer pick didn't you read? Should I have overreacted with Thaak picking Lawrence Vickers or Alex Mack? HOMER PICK! HOMER PICK! HOMER PICK! did you read it that time? I gave you 4 opportunities. However I'd rather have Big Ben than any of the QB's listed above. Peyton Manning finally won his super bowl but he was a choke artist up until that point. Tom Brady is a cry baby lady. We'll also see when the dust settles who stands where in the final rank order. Big Ben is a good bit younger than both and already has two Super Bowls. He's certainly a elite QB in this league. ONCE AGAIN HOMER PICK! that's 5 times.
Homotron said:
What part of Homer pick didn't you read? Should I have overreacted with Thaak picking Lawrence Vickers or Alex Mack? HOMER PICK! HOMER PICK! HOMER PICK! did you read it that time? I gave you 4 opportunities. However I'd rather have Big Ben than any of the QB's listed above. Peyton Manning finally won his super bowl but he was a choke artist up until that point. Tom Brady is a cry baby lady. We'll also see when the dust settles who stands where in the final rank order. Big Ben is a good bit younger than both and already has two Super Bowls. He's certainly a elite QB in this league. ONCE AGAIN HOMER PICK! that's 5 times.If you don't think Vickers is at the very least in the argument for best FB in the game, then you are making a decision based off bias against the Browns. Yes, Alex Mack was my homer pick, because when it comes to non-skill players, I don't really pay that close attention to the names of the players in the entire league.
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I dont think there is currently a better blocking fullback in the game than Vickers. Id also put Joe Thomas and Cribbs on the team. Right now Brees and Brady are the best QB's in the game. I'll disagree with Manning though. No quarterback who is so excellent in the regular season is such a choker in the playoffs. This guy does it every year! The one year they won the superbowl he had terrible numbers in the playoffs. They won that one because of Dungy's defense. Every other year he either has a terrible game or heaves an interception in clutch moment.
Manning is simply not clutch. Not in the same playoff league with Montana, Elway, Brady, Staubach etc.
Ive also got Patrick Willis as the best MLB in the game right now. Vilma a close second.
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Zombo said:
I've already explained Maning and Brady.
Brees, Favre and Warner go without saying.
Rodgers is better all round, emerging superstar.
Romo has ratings in the 90's four straight years and gets sacked half as much as Ben.
Schaub, like Rogers, is rocketing past Ben, 4770 yards last year, his third as a starter.
Rivers has a career rating of 95.8 and has never gotten sacked more than 27 times in one season
The other three guys, Ben rivals in talent, but like I said, they didn't let their team down by missing the first month.
And I forgot McNabb who has been doing it year in and year out for much longer than Ben.
So that's what ... 13 guys I'd rather see at quarterback than ben? I'm dead serious.
Zombo
Not even worth arguing. You'd lose any self respecting football fan outside of Cleveland the second you mention Schaub, Romo or Rivers ahead of Ben. Romo is a serial choker, Rivers routinely does the same and Schaub's Texans for the first time made the playoffs this past season. Warner has won his super bowls but he's not half the athlete and he was outplayed in the Cards/Steelers Super Bowl. I could go all day with this but in the end I'd just be wasting my time. Big Ben will have several Super Bowls before he retires and the Rooneys had a hand in his suspension otherwise I don't believe he would have been suspended at all. FIrst time in NFL history a player has been suspended without a conviction and even then the 4 games is pretty damn harsh. The Rooney's wanted him suspended and in the end I believe it will save his career. I hope you enjoy getting thrown all over.
Homotron said:
Not even worth arguing. You'd lose any self respecting football fan outside of Cleveland the second you mention Schaub, Romo or Rivers ahead of Ben. Romo is a serial choker, Rivers routinely does the same and Schaub's Texans for the first time made the playoffs this past season. Warner has won his super bowls but he's not half the athlete and he was outplayed in the Cards/Steelers Super Bowl. I could go all day with this but in the end I'd just be wasting my time. Big Ben will have several Super Bowls before he retires and the Rooneys had a hand in his suspension otherwise I don't believe he would have been suspended at all. FIrst time in NFL history a player has been suspended without a conviction and even then the 4 games is pretty damn harsh. The Rooney's wanted him suspended and in the end I believe it will save his career. I hope you enjoy getting thrown all over.Wow this is a first! I am agreeing with Homotron here and disagreeing with Zombo. I can't believe it!!!!
Romo does not belong in a list ahead of Ben. But I do agree with the rest of the list. Ben is a big time jerk! I mean like world class and has been for a long time. I live near Oxford and have heard it over and over again from people that he went to college with. BUT with the game on the line he just flat gets it done! PERIOD. I mean really we have all seen it first hand many times. I won't let my dislike for him cloud my judgement on this one.
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What was Pac Man Jones convicted of?????????????????????????????????????????????????
T.Dawg
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