Sources: Browns eye Schottenheimer for 2009
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marvin lewis won't be marty's DC for two reasons: first, cinci isn't gonna fire him. second, marty runs a 3-4 and lewis runs a 4-3/cover 2. they're not compatible defenses.
it only works in pittsburgh because tomlin's the HC and he working with an experienced mastermind in lebeau who's willing to learn anything he can to stay ahead of the game.
but the DC has to know the ins and outs of whatever scheme he's going to run exceptionally well or you end up with an unimaginative D like we have this year.
marvin lewis won't be marty's DC for two reasons: first, cinci isn't gonna fire him. second, marty runs a 3-4 and lewis runs a 4-3/cover 2. they're not compatible defenses.
it only works in pittsburgh because tomlin's the HC and he working with an experienced mastermind in lebeau who's willing to learn anything he can to stay ahead of the game.
but the DC has to know the ins and outs of whatever scheme he's going to run exceptionally well or you end up with an unimaginative D like we have this year.
Marty ran a 4-3 Cover 2 when he was in Cleveland and also when he was in Washington. SD was the first time he ran a 3-4 and that was because of Phillips, not Marty. He fits the system to the players and not the players to a system.
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i did not know that. i thought marty was a 3-4 guy. kinda makes me like him a little bit less.
however, he probably ran a straight 4-3 the first time in cleveland b/c the cover 2 as we know it is the brainchild of tony dungy and monte kiffin from their time together in tampa.
it would be interesting to see what system marty thinks are guys are best suited for, though.
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Lerner needs to bring someone in that knows the ropes in both a GM and HC positions.. at least until a strong foundation is formed and rebuilt and the upper management and coordinators alike learn how to play under a structured organization that only a few guys can bring to this failsauce club im all for marty or cowher no more 4 year failed training courses for clueless nitwits like crennel..
Some of you guys are amazing to think that the browns can bring in another coordinator project and fix this mess i dont care how brilliant they are no coordinator can become a great head coach in cleveland until it is all restructured because we have no structure we have no trademark anymore we have no owner or president to restore or make an identity we need real coaches and real management people to build this team right so great coordinators can rightfuly inherit the job when marty or cowher leave..we do not need another bunch of on the job training goofs it just doesnt work we need to rebuild upper management first and work on down...
10 years of these wretched experiments is enough..
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We ran a lot of Tampa 2 today, thats what had Collins confused. In the Tampa 2, the MLB drops into deep mid, which is how DQ had the 2, should have been 3 INT.
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Marty is (and was in his prime) a good .500+ coach. He was good at Cleveland I thought, developed a good repoire with Kosar and may do same with BQ. That helped the whole program immensely. In the 80's the Browns were always competitive and came up just shy of the Super Bowl more than once. I'd say he had potential, but from what I recall about his tenure at KC, it was nothing earth shaking when teams that built dynasties were up and coming. His time at SD was'nt bad, but I really believe he needs one or two very strong players to shine (ie.: LT), meaning he may not necessarily be the coach to whip this team into shape. If he has BQ doing well, a STRONG RB, solid receivers and a defense that plays like Dallas or Pittsburgh did last night, this team will definitely go places. Will have the latitude to get those key players and build that defense be there, I don't believe so.
Although no one here likes him (me included), Art Modell was football guy, much more than Lerner is and the Browns under Marty could'nt close. Will Marty do better with Lerner ? You're probably thinking, if he's given control, but is he the type of coach that can handle that control effectively ? Again, he's a good .500+ coach.
Cleveland's organization mimmicks the teams on Marty's resume' - competitive but unable to close. Maty has 8 division championships, no conference titles and no Super Bowls. I just can't believe this organization will be the one that he takes all the way. The '80's were SO frustrating because even though the team had so much going on, they never quite made it. It'd sure be nice to see them competitive and going deep into the playoffs, but I'd prefer to have a LONG term plan. How much worse can things get ?
Bellicheck, Cowher, Coughlin and a few others, can whip a team into shape and create a long term team. Is Marty in their category ? I don't believe so and that is the kind of guy the Browns need the absolute most right now.
I say Cowher is the man.
I'd be real curious to get Kosar's and Sam Rutigliano's take on Marty taking over the Browns.
Marty's records:
Year Age Tm Lg G W L T W-L%
1984 41 Cleveland Browns NFL 8 4 4 0 .500
1985 42 Cleveland Browns NFL 16 8 8 0 .500
1986 43 Cleveland Browns NFL 16 12 4 0 .750
1987 44 Cleveland Browns NFL 15 10 5 0 .667
1988 45 Cleveland Browns NFL 16 10 6 0 .625
1989 46 Kansas City Chiefs NFL 16 8 7 1 .533
1990 47 Kansas City Chiefs NFL 16 11 5 0 .688
1991 48 Kansas City Chiefs NFL 16 10 6 0 .625
1992 49 Kansas City Chiefs NFL 16 10 6 0 .625
1993 50 Kansas City Chiefs NFL 16 11 5 0 .688
1994 51 Kansas City Chiefs NFL 16 9 7 0 .563
1995 52 Kansas City Chiefs NFL 16 13 3 0 .813
1996 53 Kansas City Chiefs NFL 16 9 7 0 .563
1997 54 Kansas City Chiefs NFL 16 13 3 0 .813
1998 55 Kansas City Chiefs NFL 16 7 9 0 .438
2001 58 Washington Redskins NFL 16 8 8 0 .500
2002 59 San Diego Chargers NFL 16 8 8 0 .500
2003 60 San Diego Chargers NFL 16 4 12 0 .250
2004 61 San Diego Chargers NFL 16 12 4 0 .750
2005 62 San Diego Chargers NFL 16 9 7 0 .563
2006 63 San Diego Chargers NFL 16 14 2 0 .875
Exp Games Wins Losses W/L %
21 yrs 327 200 126 .613
10 yrs KAN 160 101 58 .635
5 yrs CLE 71 44 27 .620
5 yrs SDG 80 47 33 .588
1 yr WAS 16 8 8 .500
Games over .500: 74
Super Bowl Wins: 0
Overall Championships: 0
Conference Championships: 0 Division Championships: 8
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We ran a lot of Tampa 2 today, thats what had Collins confused. In the Tampa 2, the MLB drops into deep mid, which is how DQ had the 2, should have been 3 INT.
We ran a lot of Tampa 2 today, thats what had Collins confused. In the Tampa 2, the MLB drops into deep mid, which is how DQ had the 2, should have been 3 INT.
We did not and do not run a 4-3! What you saw with 4 man fronts was a nickel 2-4-5 and 3-4 over. I don't get why people think we run a 4-3 because they see 4 down linemen? We haven't ran a 4-3 ever since Butch Davis was the HC.
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@inspecta said:
Sigh....Which do you think is quicker? Getting some other newbie coach to play learning curve for the next 4-5 seasons or a proven winner, that has turned around every franchise he's gotten a hold of.
Let marty coach for a couple years, and during that time let the team come together know what it's like to win, and then give it to an up and comer when a mentality of winning has already been established.
Exactly what I've been saying since BEFORE we hired Romeo.
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I find it funny that it was commented that Marty is an a-hole coach as if it was a BAD thing.
Do you want to know who else is considered an A-hole coach? Take a look at the SB Champs!!! Yup. A-hole coaches WIN!!!
I was looking at the record of Marty posted earlier. Did you notice there was ONLY 2 SEASONS BELOW .500???? That is simply an amazing stat.
65...wow. That is too old? Are you kidding me? Vermeil coached to 70. George Halas and Marv Levy both coached to 72.
Records after 65:
Vermeil 44-36
Halas 54-39-5 NFL Champions at 68
But Marv Levy is really the one to look at for post 65 records:
Year Age Tm Lg G W L T W-L% G plyf W plyf L plyf W-L% Rank Notes 1990 65 Buffalo Bills NFL 16 13 3 0 .813 3 2 1 .667 1 AFC Champions 1991 66 Buffalo Bills NFL 16 13 3 0 .813 3 2 1 .667 1 AFC Champions 1992 67 Buffalo Bills NFL 16 11 5 0 .688 4 3 1 .750 1 AFC Champions 1993 68 Buffalo Bills NFL 16 12 4 0 .750 3 2 1 .667 1 AFC Champions 1994 69 Buffalo Bills NFL 16 7 9 0 .438 4 1995 70 Buffalo Bills NFL 16 10 6 0 .625 2 1 1 .500 1 1996 71 Buffalo Bills NFL 16 10 6 0 .625 1 0 1 .000 2 1997 72 Buffalo Bills NFL 16 6 10 0 .375 4
That's right, 82-46 and 4 AFC Championships (i.e. SB appearances)
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Can anyone tell me why RAC is not fired yet ? Unless RAC wants to substitute for Shaun rogers as a NT when SR needs some breathing time ...
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If Marty is going to keep Chud the Dud, then, it's a bad move. That is, unless Chud was not in control, and the stupid stuff was forced on him, like
not playing HARRISON, playing DA despite his atrocious performances until the season was pretty much lost, and running on first down, most of the time, especially when the defense is stacked against it because they KNEW the Browns would run on first down again.
And, keeping Shaffer as a starter. He should be third string, or gone.
And, Savage hasn't fixed the RT position all this time, but instead, relyed on Tucker being there.
Not too smart after Tuckers' troubles last season.
Looks to me, like Chud's system has developed into a convoluted jumble in the players' minds. I see snap count mistakes, wr's still ? not running
the right? routes ? (or was that DA just losing his grip on a job he shouldn't have - starting qb behind a team that has a pitifully weak right tackle?
The players look so confused and frustrated, they have lost their aggressiveness. Or ... something ?
How many freakin times do ya have to watch defenders run around Shaffer like Shaffer's lead feet are glued to the turf?
How many times then, when Shaffer tries to move his feet, defenders laugh, and simply knock Shaffer back into the qb?
Although, I admit I was wrong about Shaffer in the last game, He didn't get his qb killed. But his qb got hit so hard, I'm shocked he
was NOT injured. At least, as far as we know yet...
But the other thing is, the really pitiful lack of aggression of the defense.
And, special teams don't seem to block anymore on returns. What's up with that?
This entire coaching staff needs an intelligent, aggressive and experienced breath of fresh air.
Right now, I am pleading with Crennel to resign and leave, before his demoralized team is down
by three or four scores, and he goes for another field goal.
Was Crennel afraid of being late for supper, so that's why he didn't even have the fire
to throw that challenge flag?
It's one thing to lose, but it's extremely aggravating to see the way your team is being coached makes no sense.
There needs to be at least three major trades on this team for draft choices.
and...dammit.
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We should call this season of Browns as "Ugly Betty" and hopefully next season will be "Desperate Brownknives"
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We should call this season of Browns as "Ugly Betty" and hopefully next season will be "Desperate Brownknives"
We should call this season of Browns as "Ugly Betty" and hopefully next season will be "Desperate Brownknives"
Cowher is still my first choice...
Marty is a great second choice.
The OC is going to have to go... Play calling has been an absolute atrocity.
I'm not sure about Savage... I think he has done a good job in getting talent here... But if he has to go to get Cowher or Marty here... So be it... PS can get a job doing something else...
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I still dont understand why everyone wants Cowher, he really wasnt that good of a coach, the only reason everyone wants him is because he has won a superbowl and he is a local icon. The fact of the matter is, he played for the browns, but is coached the Steelers to winning a superbowl. We dont need that, he is a steeler now and always will be, GARBAGE!
Marty has a far better record and more consistency in respect to making the playoffs, plus do you really want to have him take total control of our team and turn it into something boring? We have a very capable squad that lives off big play potential and Cowher just isnt that type of coach.
Plus, Cowher has already stated that if he were to coach for the browns, it would be disrespectful to the Rooneys, which is why its not gonna happen.
Lastly, is that the message we really want to send? That we need the steelers leftovers to win? xxxx no. Im sorry but this really pisses me off!
Marty 09 baby!
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I still dont understand why everyone wants Cowher, he really wasnt that good of a coach, the only reason everyone wants him is because he has won a superbowl and he is a local icon. The fact of the matter is, he played for the browns, but is coached the Steelers to winning a superbowl. We dont need that, he is a steeler now and always will be, GARBAGE!
Marty has a far better record and more consistency in respect to making the playoffs, plus do you really want to have him take total control of our team and turn it into something boring? We have a very capable squad that lives off big play potential and Cowher just isnt that type of coach.
Plus, Cowher has already stated that if he were to coach for the browns, it would be disrespectful to the Rooneys, which is why its not gonna happen.
Lastly, is that the message we really want to send? That we need the steelers leftovers to win? xxxx no. Im sorry but this really pisses me off!
Marty 09 baby!
I still dont understand why everyone wants Cowher, he really wasnt that good of a coach, the only reason everyone wants him is because he has won a superbowl and he is a local icon. The fact of the matter is, he played for the browns, but is coached the Steelers to winning a superbowl. We dont need that, he is a steeler now and always will be, GARBAGE!
Marty has a far better record and more consistency in respect to making the playoffs, plus do you really want to have him take total control of our team and turn it into something boring? We have a very capable squad that lives off big play potential and Cowher just isnt that type of coach.
Plus, Cowher has already stated that if he were to coach for the browns, it would be disrespectful to the Rooneys, which is why its not gonna happen.
Lastly, is that the message we really want to send? That we need the steelers leftovers to win? xxxx no. Im sorry but this really pisses me off!
Marty 09 baby!
Your disdain of Cowher is misguided. However, I do believe that Marty will be a better fit for the Stains. He's hungry after being unjustifiably dismissed in San Diego. He has a proven track record of success...he's a winner everywhere he's coached. His teams always battled, they just had the breaks go against them...how hard are the Stains battling?
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Regardless of what people think about Cowher. For the most part, his teams always played hard and put a good product on the field. The one thing we want to see in Cleveland is a good product. Were not going to win a superbowl 3 out of 5 years, at least not now... But at least give us a team that has the balls to go out and play hard and perform. We don't see that..
That is what Cowher will give you... When you don't perform you get the "chin of doom"... and by god you better play harder next week...
What do the browns get now for poor play... The "gut of doom"... not really... It's more like, come here sit on daddy's lap and let me hold you like a baby... RAC is more like a grandaddy to the team than he is a coach...
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How Many Teams has Cowher done that with ?
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