Head-to-Head Hits & New Rule Discussion

medicineman

@next2nothing said:
After thinking about the two hits and the whole situation I've come to a conclusion.
The first hit on Cribbs was legal, according to the NFL rules, but the reasons Browns fans are pissed about it are these.

1. He led with his helmet, yeah it was a big hit, but the guy still led with his helmet.

2. The comments he made on the field and off the field after the hit strongly suggest that he doesn't give a shit if he injures somebody. That may not be what he truly meant but his comments suggest otherwise.

The second hit on MoMass was ILLEGAL, a hit on a defenseless receiver, which our own TJ Ward was flagged for against Cincy. IMO this hit was also a blatant blow to the head. Browns fans aren't pissed off at the hit as much as they are pissed that no flag was thrown on a hit that was worse than what TJ Ward did.

I'm also sure if the tables were turned you Steeler fans would be just as pissed as we are about it.

If the tables were turned you can count on us having a 15 yard penalty too

miktoxic

@bunsofsteel08 said:
Anyone Hear Mike Golic Today ?? Or Steve Young ?? Dilfer ?? Eric Allen ? Woodson ?? and about 10 other guys ? ALL Said ONLY the Hit on Heap was noteworthy.... you guys are SORE ASS LOSERS> Period. As usual.

i guess you'll ignore the CHUCK KNOLL comment. i mean he was only like the best coach you ever had. EVER. why should we care about these players you point out, when you ignore the others who disagree?

chirp. chirp. chirp. (crickets)

The Gipper

Homotron said:
Sooo wait because the league fined him the hit was heinous? The league fines everything now. Once again frame by frame the Mo-mass hit it was his shoulder not his helmet that knocked Mo-mass out. How many of you have even played competitive football? You are taught to hit under the chin/upper mass. It's ingrained! very earlier in the competitive process. You then add in physics with speed, weight and burst and there isn't a TON a defender can do to alter body positioning. Ad a defender you don't want that guy catching the ball so you try and jar it loose. You all are a bunch of god damn babies. If A steeler got laid out and I watched it frame by frame and saw the evidence I'd say the same. It's the NFL, not two hand touch. Guys are going to get smacked. Funny against the Bengals most of you were applauding Wards hit on Shipley because it sent a message but when Harrison does it no dice? Make up your xxxxing minds. It's because two of your Browns got knocked out of the game. Flip the script and it's a non-issue. The hits weren't dirty and no I wouldn't sing a different song if it were Ward/Wallace/Are or someone else sidelined. IT's FOOTBALL!
Keep crying girls.

The League is the final determiner of these matters. If they have determined that his actions were unwarranted, who are you, or I to argue. And apparently it was just money. No suspension. Do you really care if Harrison loses some money? I don't because......here comes the tired out old mantra.......they are all overpaid anyway, right?.

bringbackbrownie2

@bunsofsteel08 said:
1st off the League front office feels that way. and thats ALL ABout $$$ and Liability. The PLAYERS Dont feel that way... the 20 Ex Players on ESPN ALL day dont feel that way. It was a Football play ...as was TJ Wards... Now The League says Do it and its gonna Hurt YOU. Thats where we stand. It wasn't Flagrant ... or with Malice. It was whats taught to you as a player starting in Pee Wee. KNOCK the Guy silly...dont let him Catch that ball. Get over your whiny self toxicshock.

they don't feel it was flagrant because it wasn't back when they played. no surprise there. and players today don't feel that way? maybe the ones delivering the hits but i bet cribbs, massaquoi, heap, and jackson sure don't like the way a concussion feels. The rule is now in place to protect players now and down the road.

I don't really like the suspension rule as it is now, because it is so subjective - but something needs to be done.. Maybe Ditka is right - they should play without helmets or with less padded helmets so they can't be used as weapons

The Gipper

@brownindian said:
And the NFL choses not to penalize the referees for missing the blown call ?

They might, but they would NEVER announce that sort of fine.

medicineman

I think the refs should face punishments to for not throwing the flags. You know damn well we would have ben flagged sure as shit

The Gipper

@chessgoon said:
Harrison makes 13.3 million this year. I guess if he gets too depressed, he can commit suicide by jumping off his wallet. LOL! Pick up your teeth, get on the turnpike, and head home a loser again, cleveland. Enjoy the afc north basement. It gets awfully cold down there, this time of year. Your persecution complex has reached new heights, as has our lombardy count.

The only valid point you make is that this doesn't amount to a cabbage fart compared to the money the guy is making.

You know the one person who can have an effect on Harrison's action in the future?: His wife. If he keeps losing money like that it will be her up his asshole, and not the NFL or Browns fans.

The Gipper

@king-ghoolie-lives said:
This isn't the old Ghoolie patting himself on the back for predicting Harrison would be fined, but instead being happy that the NFL did the right thing.
Some players truly are dominating players. When they accomplish this through superior physical skills and determination, then like it or not, we have to respect it. Harrison however is just an average player who makes his way with dirty hits.

Mark my words, sooner or later, he's gonna get his. These NFL players are all tough fuggers capable of doing damage.

You know, I actually happen to agree with this somewhat. The reservation I have is that I think Harrison does quite well in Dick LeBeau's system. There have been a number of players who have played in that system but when they left the Steelers they were otherwise mediocre. Harrison does well in that system, and the "dirtiness" is really superfluous for him..

ballpeen

@medicineman said:
I think the refs should face punishments to for not throwing the flags. You know damn well we would have ben flagged sure as shit

They do face punishments.

They are graded every week. If you and your crew aren't doing a good job, no post season assignments with some big "bonus" checks and perks.

If you grade low enough, there are a lot of good college refs seeking NFL positions ready to take your spot.

The Gipper

@chessgoon said:
harrison an average player? since when? Nfl defensive player of the year, 2 time super bowl champ, universally acknowledged as one of the premier players in the league, outside of cleveland of course. Cleveland hasn't produced a player of his caliber since jim brown. All that region could do was hurl racial slurs at him when he grew up there in high school.

Oh, don't be stupid. First, the guy went to HS only about 2 miles from where I sit. I could walk there from here if I wanted. If he was being thrown racial slurs it was by all the other African-Americans saying "N____ this or N_____that" just the way they do. There were plenty of other blacks at that school and in the surrounding area.

As for what he would be, like I said before, I think he is a system LB. He does well in that system. LeBeau makes him good. The test would be how he would perform elsewhere.

Spunkonmyback DPOY

@medicineman said:
Whats 75 grand to somebody who makes millions? And IF the refs didn't have their heads up the Rooneys ass and threw the flag for the 15 yard penalty it could have changed the course of the game. Fuk shitburgh there fans and players

Stop whining. Stop pretending the 2005 divisional round playoff game was even close to coreectly called.

I love when Browns fans whine and cry after a big loss. They are just making it worse on themselves.

miktoxic

@spunkonmyback-dpoy said:
I love when Browns fans whine and cry after a big loss. They are just making it worse on themselves.

yeah, our team has the biggest goon on it along side a guy that is known for preying on women/girls who are drunk. we're crying. i'd be upset if i were you because your goon and sexual predator has shone the national spotlight on your team and city, and everyone now can see both for what they are................DIRTY DIRTY DIRTY.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Taz1129

"If it's an illegal hit under the rules, then you're going to be held accountable. We get the pushback all the time that, 'What's a defender to do?' Well, we, in these situations, have to say the defender has to adjust his target area. The player has to wrap up. He has to do the things more fundamentally that we used to do ... when we used to tackle back in the day. We would like them to do more of that. But with the seriousness of the head and neck trauma and concussions generally, we've got a responsibility to just make sure that players understand and adapt."

What?

So the moron wants to go back to those days, LMAO

So lets forget about trying to injure players, lets try to kill them. Anderson is an idiot.

Spunkonmyback DPOY

@miktoxic said:
yeah, our team has the biggest goon on it along side a guy that is known for preying on women/girls who are drunk. we're crying. i'd be upset if i were you because your goon and sexual predator has shone the national spotlight on your team and city, and everyone now can see both for what they are................DIRTY DIRTY DIRTY.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

The Cardinals Darnell Docket believes Harrison's hit was a good, clean hit. Docket watched on the sideline as Harrison returned a 99 yard interception for a TD vs his team in the Super Bowl.

miktoxic

@spunkonmyback-dpoy said:
The Cardinals Darnell Docket believes Harrison's hit was a good, clean hit. Docket watched on the sideline as Harrison returned a 99 yard interception for a TD vs his team in the Super Bowl.

wha, wha, what????? that was your reply?

chirp. chirp. chirp. (crickets)

Spunkonmyback DPOY

@miktoxic said:
wha, wha, what????? that was your reply?
chirp. chirp. chirp. (crickets)

So you don't care that NFL players (players who if anything would have biased against Harrison) believe these fines/suspensions threats are BS and Harrison is getting fined for playing football.

As you just made very evident, you have absolutley nothing to say against Docket defedning Harrison. Docket has NOTHING to gain by defending Harrison. If anything he opens himself up to potential fines. He obviously felt strongly enough to voice his opinion and risk his own wallet to defend Harrison. And you have nothing of substance or meaning to respond to what he did.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/495796-...ball-in-the-nfl

Maybe you care that Hillis has to say:

Browns running back Peyton Hillis was quoted as saying, "They were vicious hits, no doubt about it. But you can’t blame the guy. That’s the name of the game. You just have to roll with the punches.”

I think the fact that Hillis is 1) a Browns player defending Harrison's hit and 2) an offensive player criticizing Goodell softening up defenses speaks volumes to how ALL the players in the NFL feel. Not just a select few hard htting defenders.

CribbsWalker

@spunkonmyback-dpoy said:
So you don't care that NFL players (players who if anything would have biased against Harrison) believe these fines/suspensions threats are BS and Harrison is getting fined for playing football.
As you just made very evident, you have absolutley nothing to say against Docket defedning Harrison. Docket has NOTHING to gain by defending Harrison. If anything he opens himself up to potential fines. He obviously felt strongly enough to voice his opinion and risk his own wallet to defend Harrison. And you have nothing of substance or meaning to respond to what he did.

Ive seen Tedy Brusci talk multiple times today on how its BS that these players end up leading with their helmets trying to blow guys up. His argument is that "World Class Athletes" such as Harrison are conditioned and trained well enough to be able to alter their paths when going after these receivers. You can't tell me that the former Defensive Player of the Year and "best defender in the league" as proclaimed by some of you is incapable and not skilled enough to alter his target on some of these hits.

Even on bang-bang plays they have time to turn slightly and throw their shoulder instead of their helmet, or wrap a guy up easily (because he's "defenseless" and not paying attention) I've also seen many other players say that this needs to be done such as Rodney Harrison and a couple others I can't recall. These hits are already illegal, they're just enforcing them much stricter on a case-by-case basis.

I also hate the "It's football! Take off your dress because its all about HITTING AND CONTACT!". Well then lets screw all of the rules that promote safety... to hell with roughing the passer, fair catches, crack-backs, albert haynesworth stepping on peoples faces, crushing a punter who is basically doing the splits with no padding.

Times change, safety is important to keep these guys alive... get over it.

Spunkonmyback DPOY

@cribbswalker said:
Ive seen Tedy Brusci talk multiple times today on how its BS that these players end up leading with their helmets trying to blow guys up. His argument is that "World Class Athletes" such as Harrison are conditioned and trained well enough to be able to alter their paths when going after these receivers. You can't tell me that the former Defensive Player of the Year and "best defender in the league" as proclaimed by some of you is incapable and not skilled enough to alter his target on some of these hits.
Even on bang-bang plays they have time to turn slightly and throw their shoulder instead of their helmet, or wrap a guy up easily (because he's "defenseless" and not paying attention) I've also seen many other players say that this needs to be done such as Rodney Harrison and a couple others I can't recall. These hits are already illegal, they're just enforcing them much stricter on a case-by-case basis.

I also hate the "It's football! Take off your dress because its all about HITTING AND CONTACT!". Well then lets screw all of the rules that promote safety... to hell with roughing the passer, fair catches, crack-backs, albert haynesworth stepping on peoples faces, crushing a punter who is basically doing the splits with no padding.

Times change, safety is important to keep these guys alive... get over it.

Physics only go so far. Hillis is quoted as saying it's just part of football and it happens. "They were vicious hits, no doubt about it. But you can’t blame the guy. That’s the name of the game. You just have to roll with the punches. ”There is a difference between intentionally leading with your helmet and helmet-to-helmet contact just happening.

Should the NFL make a rule banning running backs from lowering their head to hit defenders? If defenders can't hit with their helmet how is it any safer for running backs to do it?

Earl34

@cribbswalker said:
Ive seen Tedy Brusci talk multiple times today on how its BS that these players end up leading with their helmets trying to blow guys up. His argument is that "World Class Athletes" such as Harrison are conditioned and trained well enough to be able to alter their paths when going after these receivers. You can't tell me that the former Defensive Player of the Year and "best defender in the league" as proclaimed by some of you is incapable and not skilled enough to alter his target on some of these hits.
Even on bang-bang plays they have time to turn slightly and throw their shoulder instead of their helmet, or wrap a guy up easily (because he's "defenseless" and not paying attention) I've also seen many other players say that this needs to be done such as Rodney Harrison and a couple others I can't recall. These hits are already illegal, they're just enforcing them much stricter on a case-by-case basis.

I also hate the "It's football! Take off your dress because its all about HITTING AND CONTACT!". Well then lets screw all of the rules that promote safety... to hell with roughing the passer, fair catches, crack-backs, albert haynesworth stepping on peoples faces, crushing a punter who is basically doing the splits with no padding.

Times change, safety is important to keep these guys alive... get over it.

Agreed.

This is not about taking big hits out of the game. They will still happen. "Bang-bang" plays while unfortunate, will still happen. This is about taking big hits against DEFENSELESS players out of the game. On a running play there will be helmet to helmet on any of the linemen and the running back and tacklers. None of those guys are defenseless. Massaquoi was defenseless and he was hit in the head. It doesn't matter what you lead with. Hit to neck or head + defenseless receiver = penalty. It's that simple. Apparently this simple explanation is still lost on Steeler fans.

London Fletcher had a great hit on a defenseless Joseph Addai. No penalty called because he didn't lead with his helmet and he hit him in the lower chest.

Spunkonmyback DPOY

@theclevelandsound said:
What no one is talking about it the reaction of Harrison afterwards. As soon as he struck MoMass he got up and acted like he had just saved the world. arrogant.

Oh my God. A defender celebrated a big hit. Unprecedented.......