Bye Bye Mangini
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Ok honest question..
What coaching mistakes can we learn from.? Who did we hire that deserved more time?
I'm really confused on that argument..
Ok honest question..
What coaching mistakes can we learn from.? Who did we hire that deserved more time?
I'm really confused on that argument..
Im not confused at all. You love Gruden in some sick way and thats all you talk about. Give it a rest. I can't speak for everybody on here but I for one am sick of hearing about him.
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Ok honest question..
What coaching mistakes can we learn from.? Who did we hire that deserved more time?
I'm really confused on that argument..
Im not confused at all. You love Gruden in some sick way and thats all you talk about. Give it a rest. I can't speak for everybody on here but I for one am sick of hearing about him.
Im not confused at all. You love Gruden in some sick way and thats all you talk about. Give it a rest. I can't speak for everybody on here but I for one am sick of hearing about him.
Its not just me, now its the media and they are even more annoying than myself.
I only mentioned him in this thread to answer a question..
When you say I love gruden are u saying in the biblical sense
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I don't understand the Gruden love.
he's a good coach, but the guy is hard on QB's.
His offensive isn't all that innovative. The only thing different about it is the strange terminology he uses.
He understands it, but his QBs have a hard time understanding it.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
Buddy,football players are human beings. You cannot expect the same results week in and week out. As teams develop an identity, a freaternity and a culture, they get better and better at minimizing the distractions and errors that prevent consistent play.
When winning requires the entire team to be emotionally and physically near perfection, it is next to impossible to win with regularity. The wins you referred to happened because on those days everything was in line for the Browns.
As you add talent, experience and confidence to the team, the irregularities in performance of individual players on any given day affect the team less and less.
Right now, for the Browns to win, any individual let down pressures the entire team. We just don't have the talent, experience and confidence to overcome that right now.
As I have said before, I abandoned the Lerner Browns for a long time because I didn't believe the team was building the proper core values. Call me emotional or whatever you want, but I believe in this team and in this organization. I even think Lerner finally gets it.
This wishing for Gruden is not good. Let me ask you something; lets put aside the Superbowl he won, and let's put aside how afterwards his team degraded.
Just let's talk about Gruden. What are the core values about him that make you want him? What is his legacy as far as behavior, principle and achievement? In all honestly? I sense more of that Lombardi loyalty brewing in Cleveland with Mangini, than I do from ex Gruden players.
Be careful what you wish for.
I want Mangini to stay.
Ask yourself this much - What do you think Mangini's record would be if he had a shifty RB, a top WR and a bastard pass rusher added to this season? Do you not believe that most, if not all of these close losses would have been converted to wins?
Ah, he is too conservative on offense? Fair enough, but as I see it, this team is on teh right track.
I think gruden gets a bad rap when it comes to some of his x players. Simeon Rice called him a scumbag, cause he was released after being injured. Simeon was a popular player and it didnt go over well with some of the players im sure. It was a business move and was best for the team.
When he coached in Oakland he was able to do what other coaches havent be able to do and that is win with a crappy owner. He is a fiery guy who is from the same tree as Holmgren. As far as the knock he cant develop young qbs, not really fair cause he only had Chris simms. He is an extremely smart guy, as is mangini.
Let me ask you, do you really think Mangini is the guy to get us to a superbowl? Players in New York wore thin on his act. I think Mangini has so much going against him.
I think gruden gets a bad rap when it comes to some of his x players. Simeon Rice called him a scumbag, cause he was released after being injured. Simeon was a popular player and it didnt go over well with some of the players im sure. It was a business move and was best for the team.
None of the players Mangini traded called him a scumbag. They only trash talked to organization, and the city. Not one word about the type of person or coach Mangini was.
When he coached in Oakland he was able to do what other coaches havent be able to do and that is win with a crappy owner. He is a fiery guy who is from the same tree as Holmgren. As far as the knock he cant develop young qbs, not really fair cause he only had Chris simms. He is an extremely smart guy, as is mangini.
His first two years, he went .500 both seasons. It's not winning, but it's not losing. It's better than Mangini's first two years, I'll give you that. It's not Mangini's fault he's coaching a team in the AFC North, where 8-8 doesn't get you second place in the division. Last year, 8-8 would still have gotten us 4th place.
Let me ask you, do you really think Mangini is the guy to get us to a superbowl? Players in New York wore thin on his act. I think Mangini has so much going against him.
This is just an opinion.
Let's look at the facts. When Jon Gruden showed up, the Raiders had:
Steve Wisniewski, perennial Pro Bowler at Offensive Guard.
Lincoln Kennedy, Pro Bowl Right Tackle.
Tim Brown at WR, 9x Pro Bowler and 1000+ yards almost every season. A legitimate #1 WR.
Charles Woodson at corner. Enough said.
E-Rock at the other corner (until his untimely death).
Darrell Russell, Pro Bowl defensive tackle.
They went 8-8 Gruden's first year with a stable of QB's. Then, in 1999, Gruden adds Rich Gannon and Tyrone Wheatley, and that's when things started happening. Another 8-8 season while the team started to jell and then, in 2000, they make it to the AFC Championship. Rich Gannon throws for 3480 yards, 28 TD's and 11 INT's. Tyrone Wheatley rushes for over 1000 yards and 9 touchdowns. Tim Brown posts another 1000+ yard season.
The Raiders defense that year finished 9th, ours finished 10th this season. The only difference in the Raiders 2000 season and our current season is that the Raiders had an offense. Jon Gruden inherited a team that had some studs on it, maybe a little old, but playmakers nonetheless. Gruden added a QB and an RB. That's it. That's all they needed, sided with some strong coaching.
Mangini, on the other hand, had to completely rebuild a team from the bottom up. We had two and a half playmakers, and they didn't want to be here. So he got rid of them. He added a QB, he added a RB, a CB and a SS. We're a WR and a RT away from having a team that can compete. And compete in a better division, I might add.
I don't see why Mangini isn't the guy to lead us to a Super Bowl. Why don't you think he's the guy?
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...12/post_71.html
Steve D. mentions it, too. I'll go get it.
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Or maybe Holmgren said to start McCoy for the rest of the season to have a better evaluation of what we got, especially since we play 4-5 cold games every year. Or maybe it is all speculation and no one has a clue, even Holmgren as of now.
There is a chance Mangini will be back. There is a chance he will be gone.
I dont think anyone knows, and all of these "experts" with their "sources..." I just feel like Holmgren would not let anything out about what his plans are this offseason just yet, even to any of his assistances.
I could care less any more what happens, as long as we get a new OC, with previous OC experience, as long as their OC experience wasnt has terrible as Daboll's.
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Im a little happy with our 5 wins. If you looked at our roster at before the season began some would say we would be lucky to win a game. But with a very impressive year from Hillis and Mcoy we have a positive foundation. Let Eric get us a vet wr and maybe draft another wr we are heading in the right direction. Replace Daboll and a stud de we will be good. ImO
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BTW, Steve D. sees Holmgren coaching next year before handing off to Gruden in 2012.
http://www.cantonrep.com/browns/x180877300...h-in-the-mirror
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Mike Lombardi of NFL.com wrote today that Mangini was on a short leash before the season and the last 2 losses sealed his fate. He picks John Fox as the most likely replacement.
Mike Lombardi of NFL.com wrote today that Mangini was on a short leash before the season and the last 2 losses sealed his fate. He picks John Fox as the most likely replacement.
I think McCoy and Hillis questioning the team's motivation hurt, too. And no, neither said, "And I really think that was Mangini's fault." But that's not surprising. Anytime you say the team wasn't fired up to play? That casts a bad light on the coach. It says they've lost their team.
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We just have to wait and see.............Who knows mite not be nothing to see as there might not be a season anyhow.
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Or maybe Holmgren said to start McCoy for the rest of the season to have a better evaluation of what we got, especially since we play 4-5 cold games every year. Or maybe it is all speculation and no one has a clue, even Holmgren as of now.
There is a chance Mangini will be back. There is a chance he will be gone.
I dont think anyone knows, and all of these "experts" with their "sources..." I just feel like Holmgren would not let anything out about what his plans are this offseason just yet, even to any of his assistances.
I could care less any more what happens, as long as we get a new OC, with previous OC experience, as long as their OC experience wasnt has terrible as Daboll's.
Or maybe Holmgren said to start McCoy for the rest of the season to have a better evaluation of what we got, especially since we play 4-5 cold games every year. Or maybe it is all speculation and no one has a clue, even Holmgren as of now.
There is a chance Mangini will be back. There is a chance he will be gone.
I dont think anyone knows, and all of these "experts" with their "sources..." I just feel like Holmgren would not let anything out about what his plans are this offseason just yet, even to any of his assistances.
I could care less any more what happens, as long as we get a new OC, with previous OC experience, as long as their OC experience wasnt has terrible as Daboll's.
I agree. I am willing to bet Holmgren hasn't even made up his mind yet. He has two more weeks of football to watch...
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Or maybe Holmgren said to start McCoy for the rest of the season to have a better evaluation of what we got, especially since we play 4-5 cold games every year. Or maybe it is all speculation and no one has a clue, even Holmgren as of now.
There is a chance Mangini will be back. There is a chance he will be gone.
I dont think anyone knows, and all of these "experts" with their "sources..." I just feel like Holmgren would not let anything out about what his plans are this offseason just yet, even to any of his assistances.
I could care less any more what happens, as long as we get a new OC, with previous OC experience, as long as their OC experience wasnt has terrible as Daboll's.
I agree. I am willing to bet Holmgren hasn't even made up his mind yet. He has two more weeks of football to watch...
I agree. I am willing to bet Holmgren hasn't even made up his mind yet. He has two more weeks of football to watch...
Very true. And I think Mike knows Eric did a good job with what he had. Ya we lost games we should have won but we also won games we should have lost.
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Here's PFT sort of summing it up. They connected the effort quotes to Mangini's future as well:
Speculation increases about Mangini’s future in Cleveland
Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on December 20, 2010, 1:52 PM EST
Don’t tell Browns coach Eric Mangini that December games are meaningless for losing teams.
Last year, a four-game winning streak to close the season saved Mangini’s job. This season, back-to-back losses to the Bills and Bengals have folks in Cleveland believing that Mangini could be on his way out.
Marla Ridnour of the Akron Beacon-Journal believes that “not even a split” of the Browns’ final two games would save Mangini’s job. Dennis Manoloff of the Cleveland Plain-Dealer also believes the entire coaching staff will be gone unless the Browns win the last two games. (The same paper said last week Mangini needed to win two of their final three games for him to stay.)
Rookie quarterback Colt McCoy partially blamed the team’s effort for the loss.
“It’s our division — you’ve got to get hyped up. I thought early on we lacked a little bit of energy — we lacked a little bit of intensity,” McCoy said.
The Browns gave up 188 yards rushing, and only had one rushing first down on offense. Essentially, the Browns looked like the opposite of what we’ve come to expect from a team that has mostly played better than their 5-9 record indicates.
Once again, the team’s December play may decide Mangini’s January fate.
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Mike Lombardi of NFL.com wrote today that Mangini was on a short leash before the season and the last 2 losses sealed his fate. He picks John Fox as the most likely replacement.
I think McCoy and Hillis questioning the team's motivation hurt, too. And no, neither said, "And I really think that was Mangini's fault." But that's not surprising. Anytime you say the team wasn't fired up to play? That casts a bad light on the coach. It says they've lost their team.
I think McCoy and Hillis questioning the team's motivation hurt, too. And no, neither said, "And I really think that was Mangini's fault." But that's not surprising. Anytime you say the team wasn't fired up to play? That casts a bad light on the coach. It says they've lost their team.
It casts a bad light on the coach because you want it to cast a bad light on the coach. It could just as easily cast a bad light on the organization, the players, anything.
It's not the coach's sole responsibility to fire up his players to play. If you're not fired up to play, that's your own damn fault, and nothing in the world is going to change it. There's been games where the coach could have told me that the world would end if we didn't win, and I still wasn't feeling it based on one thing or another.
This is just the media trying to mold quotes to fit their agenda. For all we know, Colt McCoy or Peyton Hillis could have also said "This is solely based on me. We lost because I didn't play well enough." But that doesn't paint Mangini in a bad light, so of course the media won't publish it.
This is getting to be ridiculous. Let's start over again, everyone. We didn't make the playoffs this year, we obviously suck big time.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
You can't always blame a loss on the coach. Yes we as fans want people held accountable but that don't always hang on the coach.
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TWO years that's all mangini's had to build from nothing. and the rumors of john fox i sure as hell don't want him. i want to see mangini stay another year were moving in the right direction sure we have some bumps but was anyone expecting playoffs this year. if we can finish with a better record than last year that's all i want. We've been ion every game with a few more play makers we'll be making a run for the playoffs next year.
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I think McCoy and Hillis questioning the team's motivation hurt, too. And no, neither said, "And I really think that was Mangini's fault." But that's not surprising. Anytime you say the team wasn't fired up to play? That casts a bad light on the coach. It says they've lost their team.
It casts a bad light on the coach because you want it to cast a bad light on the coach. It could just as easily cast a bad light on the organization, the players, anything.
It's not the coach's sole responsibility to fire up his players to play. If you're not fired up to play, that's your own damn fault, and nothing in the world is going to change it. There's been games where the coach could have told me that the world would end if we didn't win, and I still wasn't feeling it based on one thing or another.
This is just the media trying to mold quotes to fit their agenda. For all we know, Colt McCoy or Peyton Hillis could have also said "This is solely based on me. We lost because I didn't play well enough." But that doesn't paint Mangini in a bad light, so of course the media won't publish it.
This is getting to be ridiculous. Let's start over again, everyone. We didn't make the playoffs this year, we obviously suck big time.
It casts a bad light on the coach because you want it to cast a bad light on the coach. It could just as easily cast a bad light on the organization, the players, anything.
It's not the coach's sole responsibility to fire up his players to play. If you're not fired up to play, that's your own damn fault, and nothing in the world is going to change it. There's been games where the coach could have told me that the world would end if we didn't win, and I still wasn't feeling it based on one thing or another.
This is just the media trying to mold quotes to fit their agenda. For all we know, Colt McCoy or Peyton Hillis could have also said "This is solely based on me. We lost because I didn't play well enough." But that doesn't paint Mangini in a bad light, so of course the media won't publish it.
This is getting to be ridiculous. Let's start over again, everyone. We didn't make the playoffs this year, we obviously suck big time.
You're not getting what I'm saying. I'm not saying it's right or fair... but when players on a 5-9 team question effort or motivation, it always looks bad for the head coach. The buck stops there, as they say. The takeaway is that the coach isn't able to get all his players to play hard every Sunday, which tends to piss off GMs, presidents, and owners.
It's just the way it is. Nothing to do with what I do or don't want. I don't hate Mangini at all... but I think he's toast.
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TWO years that's all mangini's had to build from nothing. and the rumors of john fox i sure as hell don't want him. i want to see mangini stay another year were moving in the right direction sure we have some bumps but was anyone expecting playoffs this year. if we can finish with a better record than last year that's all i want. We've been ion every game with a few more play makers we'll be making a run for the playoffs next year.
TWO years that's all mangini's had to build from nothing. and the rumors of john fox i sure as hell don't want him. i want to see mangini stay another year were moving in the right direction sure we have some bumps but was anyone expecting playoffs this year. if we can finish with a better record than last year that's all i want. We've been ion every game with a few more play makers we'll be making a run for the playoffs next year.
What is this right direction the Browns are moving in? I don't see this mystical and magical improvement. They just lost to the 2 worst teams in the league and needed a missed FG from THE worst team to win.
EM won one more game than Romeo's last year and it will be a loooong shot to improve on last years record.
I know many of you fans don't judge success by wins and losses the problem is everyone else does.
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