Tight Ends
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
You are completely ignoring the fact that THEY HAD LEGITIMATE OPTIONS OTHER THAN HIM. When you have a players like Branch/Welker and Moss/Welker at the top of there game then you don't drop down to your TE read that often. The ONLY reason that the two new TE in NE did as good as they did this year stat wise was because Moss was over and they brought Branch back way past his prime. when your new #1 option is Welker who is now getting the main focus with now one behind him to take his spot you throw more to the TE.The situation isn't just as simple as you claim. To say that the passing offense in NE was exactly the same when Watson was there is ridiculous and to think that bad WR make a better TE without taking into account that the same TE is now being double covered alot more is stupid. Plus like alot of people who watch the NFL you have forgotten that the TE is also a blocker and that is also playing into my decision and Watson is one of the best run blocking TE in the NFL, he is a COMPLETE TE something that can not be said for either TE in NE and when you put his receiving ability with his run blocking ability he is a top 10-15 TE in the NFL and far better than anything Cinci has, better than Miller by a long shot, and in a good neck and neck race with Heap for the #1 TE in the AFCN.
If bad WR make a good TE wouldn't it make sense that Good WR make a bad TE. Wouldn't that be a good way to explain his numbers in NE? Think about it.
There is so much flawed in that post that my brain actually started smoking. I'm done with this. If you think Watson is really that good then I am glad for you. Homerism is alive and well.
God Bless.
There is so much flawed in that post that my brain actually started smoking. I'm done with this. If you think Watson is really that good then I am glad for you. Homerism is alive and well.
God Bless.
You are so narrow minded it is freakin ridiculous. So one way works but the other doesn't. Bad WR's can make a TE's numbers go up, but Good WR's won't cause a TE's numbers to go down. Makes alot of sense if you don't think about it! Taking one bit that supports your argument into account and discounting everything else that goes against it is no way to make an argument for anything.
I'm sorry Watson was never used as a slot receiver when he was in NE either like the two rookies. And I like how I'm so high on him when I said he is around the 15th best in the NFL, not THEY best, but sure as hell a lot better than your giving him credit for.
Go push your flawed logic on another topic, I would get a real kick out of reading how Joe Thomas is over rated and how we should ship out Haden while we still can.
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There is so much flawed in that post that my brain actually started smoking. I'm done with this. If you think Watson is really that good then I am glad for you. Homerism is alive and well.
God Bless.
You are so narrow minded it is freakin ridiculous. So one way works but the other doesn't. Bad WR's can make a TE's numbers go up, but Good WR's won't cause a TE's numbers to go down. Makes alot of sense if you don't think about it! Taking one bit that supports your argument into account and discounting everything else that goes against it is no way to make an argument for anything.
I'm sorry Watson was never used as a slot receiver when he was in NE either like the two rookies. And I like how I'm so high on him when I said he is around the 15th best in the NFL, not THEY best, but sure as hell a lot better than your giving him credit for.
Go push your flawed logic on another topic, I would get a real kick out of reading how Joe Thomas is over rated and how we should ship out Haden while we still can.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
You are so narrow minded it is freakin ridiculous. So one way works but the other doesn't. Bad WR's can make a TE's numbers go up, but Good WR's won't cause a TE's numbers to go down. Makes alot of sense if you don't think about it! Taking one bit that supports your argument into account and discounting everything else that goes against it is no way to make an argument for anything.I'm sorry Watson was never used as a slot receiver when he was in NE either like the two rookies. And I like how I'm so high on him when I said he is around the 15th best in the NFL, not THEY best, but sure as hell a lot better than your giving him credit for.
Go push your flawed logic on another topic, I would get a real kick out of reading how Joe Thomas is over rated and how we should ship out Haden while we still can.
Dallas-Witten
Indy-Clark
Houston-Daniels
Atlanta- Gonzalez
Those are 4 TEs off of the top of my head that have put up numbers even though they have good WRs around them.
And since you mentioned it, Thomas was overrated this year and I am not completely sold on Haden yet.
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What do you disagree with precisely?
For starters, I think the lack of a WR corp inflated his numbers, not the opposite. Also, I disagree with implying that Belichek made a mistake by letting him go considering the production NE got from the TE position this year.
For starters, I think the lack of a WR corp inflated his numbers, not the opposite. Also, I disagree with implying that Belichek made a mistake by letting him go considering the production NE got from the TE position this year.
Well, he may certainly have gotten more passes thrown to him because the rest of the WR corps was unreliable, but still, he came through with those catches which I give him credit for.
On the second point, note that I may have backed off on calling it a mistake. It may have been, as I said, just a matter of not being the right fit for the system.
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
You are so narrow minded it is freakin ridiculous. So one way works but the other doesn't. Bad WR's can make a TE's numbers go up, but Good WR's won't cause a TE's numbers to go down. Makes alot of sense if you don't think about it! Taking one bit that supports your argument into account and discounting everything else that goes against it is no way to make an argument for anything.I'm sorry Watson was never used as a slot receiver when he was in NE either like the two rookies. And I like how I'm so high on him when I said he is around the 15th best in the NFL, not THEY best, but sure as hell a lot better than your giving him credit for.
Go push your flawed logic on another topic, I would get a real kick out of reading how Joe Thomas is over rated and how we should ship out Haden while we still can.
Dallas-Witten
Indy-Clark
Houston-Daniels
Atlanta- Gonzalez
Those are 4 TEs off of the top of my head that have put up numbers even though they have good WRs around them.
And since you mentioned it, Thomas was overrated this year and I am not completely sold on Haden yet.
Dallas-Witten
Indy-Clark
Houston-Daniels
Atlanta- Gonzalez
Those are 4 TEs off of the top of my head that have put up numbers even though they have good WRs around them.
And since you mentioned it, Thomas was overrated this year and I am not completely sold on Haden yet.
I am not sure that anyone is claiming that Watson is necessarily as good as the guys you list. The question was the relative abilities of the 4 AFCN TEs. However, note in my statistical listing that Watson was like 5th in the NFL in catches and in yards.
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
You are so narrow minded it is freakin ridiculous. So one way works but the other doesn't. Bad WR's can make a TE's numbers go up, but Good WR's won't cause a TE's numbers to go down. Makes alot of sense if you don't think about it! Taking one bit that supports your argument into account and discounting everything else that goes against it is no way to make an argument for anything.I'm sorry Watson was never used as a slot receiver when he was in NE either like the two rookies. And I like how I'm so high on him when I said he is around the 15th best in the NFL, not THEY best, but sure as hell a lot better than your giving him credit for.
Go push your flawed logic on another topic, I would get a real kick out of reading how Joe Thomas is over rated and how we should ship out Haden while we still can.
Dallas-Witten
Indy-Clark
Houston-Daniels
Atlanta- Gonzalez
Those are 4 TEs off of the top of my head that have put up numbers even though they have good WRs around them.
And since you mentioned it, Thomas was overrated this year and I am not completely sold on Haden yet.
Dallas-Witten
Indy-Clark
Houston-Daniels
Atlanta- Gonzalez
Those are 4 TEs off of the top of my head that have put up numbers even though they have good WRs around them.
And since you mentioned it, Thomas was overrated this year and I am not completely sold on Haden yet.
1. Not one of those guys is as good of a blocker as Watson is which is PART OF BEING A TIGHT END!!! It should factor into your decision. Gonzalez and Clark are basically just glorified slot receivers and Daniels and Witten are average blockers at best. All of these guys will also line up in the slot on downs where there is no TE which is something that Watson doesn't do. When you add the fact that they get about 15% more snaps because of being in the slot, they are going to have slightly inflated numbers compared to TE that just play TE.
2. Thank you for proving my point. Maybe we can trade Haden for Jimmy Clausen and give them Ward too for a throw in. Maybe Thomas should agree to a pay cut since he had one off year (where he still played like one of the top 10 tackles in the NFL).
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Dallas-Witten
Indy-Clark
Houston-Daniels
Atlanta- Gonzalez
Those are 4 TEs off of the top of my head that have put up numbers even though they have good WRs around them.
And since you mentioned it, Thomas was overrated this year and I am not completely sold on Haden yet.
1. Not one of those guys is as good of a blocker as Watson is which is PART OF BEING A TIGHT END!!! It should factor into your decision. Gonzalez and Clark are basically just glorified slot receivers and Daniels and Witten are average blockers at best. All of these guys will also line up in the slot on downs where there is no TE which is something that Watson doesn't do. When you add the fact that they get about 15% more snaps because of being in the slot, they are going to have slightly inflated numbers compared to TE that just play TE.
2. Thank you for proving my point. Maybe we can trade Haden for Jimmy Clausen and give them Ward too for a throw in. Maybe Thomas should agree to a pay cut since he had one off year (where he still played like one of the top 10 tackles in the NFL).
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
2. Thank you for proving my point. Maybe we can trade Haden for Jimmy Clausen and give them Ward too for a throw in. Maybe Thomas should agree to a pay cut since he had one off year (where he still played like one of the top 10 tackles in the NFL).Yes, because that is exactly what I said.
I love Thomas but that doesn't change the fact that he had a less than stellar year by HIS standards. Hell, Abraham made him look like a 5th round rookie. He is still better than almost all LTs in the league.
Haden showed great ball skills and tremendous potential, especially for a guy that hasn't played the position as long as most. That doesn't change the fact that he also looked lost in coverage at times. He definitely can become elite but right now the jury is still out.
I'm sorry if I don't think a guy is the greatest player ever because he is playing for my favorite team. I remember that I used to do that back in grade school. Webster Slaughter was all world!!!
As far as Watson goes, I think he is a solid TE and is adequate for the time being and like Gipper said he did take advantage of his opportunities but let's not act like he a stud all of a sudden because he caught a lot of dump offs.
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mikeyP72 said:
You never actually say anything Pizzadude. You just make empty statements like Steeler fans.Please explain why you aren't sold on Haden, I'd love to hear it.
Pot<>Kettle
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mikeyP72 said:
You never actually say anything Pizzadude. You just make empty statements like Steeler fans.Please explain why you aren't sold on Haden, I'd love to hear it.
Pot<>Kettle
Pot<>Kettle
No not really. You haven't really done anything but stat our opinion on empty statement and receiving stats for a position that doesn't just revolve around what the stats say. The TE position goes deeper than catches and yards it is a multi job position that can not be judged by stats alone but that is apparently all you can look at. And even all the factors that go into why he didn't do as well in NE are ignored. You use receiving stats from other TE who are used as slot receivers in a lot of situations and are actually the 2nd receiving option on their team where as Watson in NE and in Cleveland was used as a 3rd receiving option TE.
Oh and taking cracks at age is funny and pushing that I'm a homer is a riot. What I'm saying is that Watson is a top 15 TE and at tied for top TE in the AFCN. I'm not saying that he is the best TE receiving wise or blocking wise, but combined his receiving ability and blocking ability combined make him a top 15 TE. That's not a homer statement that is a statement from someone who is actually looking at all the factors that make up a TE to make an informed decision, not one from some narrow minded dude only looking at a stat sheet.
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Think about it like this, if the WR were bad then wouldn't that mean that they would focus more on Watson in coverage. You could cover each WR on our roster with one guy and easily put two on Watson since he was our only reciving option. I can understand why you feel that no WR production means that Watson was focused on more by our QB's, but that does also mean he was focused on more by opposing defenses. I also credit Watson for his production becuase he got production evenly over the course of the season even though we had 3 different starters.I will agree that Belichek didn't make a mistake by letting Watson go. I can go over all day why Watson didn't produce well in NE but the bottom line is that he didn't produce well there. For the price that they would have had to pay Watson to stay they were able to draft and pay 2 rookie TE the same price who by all accounts fit in their system a little better and did do well this year.
Hate to over simplify it but.........Bad WR corp = more TE targets = inflated statistics.
I honestly like Watson and he is passable for now but he is no where near the TE that you guys are making him out to be. I would gladly trade him for Heap or Miller.
Hate to over simplify it but.........Bad WR corp = more TE targets = inflated statistics.
I honestly like Watson and he is passable for now but he is no where near the TE that you guys are making him out to be. I would gladly trade him for Heap or Miller.
I haven't read Gips replies yet but based on your responses I can deduce what was said and I completely agree. I'm not sure why anyone thinks Ben Watson is all world because he put up 700 yards receiving. As I already pointed out his career receiving yards were 400 less and he has 6 td's less than Miller yet played one more season. He also can't block and Miller blocks like a lineman. Todd Heap on the other hand is injury prone but if not for his injuries would be a top 5 guy in the league. Period. Ben Watson despite his production this year is the worst TE in the division. He's a cast off that had a solid year because of the inept receiving core around him. He still has solid speed so as a safety valve he did well and I'd wager had significantly more targets than the rest of the team.
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The question came up as to why Watson was not still with the Patriots. I think the reason may be in these stats:
2005 25 NWE TE 15 9 29 441 15.2 4 35 1.9 29.4
2006 26 NWE TE 13 13 49 643 13.1 3 40 3.8 49.5
2007 27 NWE te 12 8 36 389 10.8 6 35 3.0 32.4
2008 28 NWE TE 14 9 22 209 9.5 2 29 1.6 14.9
2009 29 NWE TE 16 7 29 404 13.9 5 36 1.8 25.3
2010 30 CLE TE 16 16 68 763 11.2 3 44 4
The answer seems simple: he was being under utilized by the Pats and he left. He had by far his best career numbers with the Browns.
The question came up as to why Watson was not still with the Patriots. I think the reason may be in these stats:
2005 25 NWE TE 15 9 29 441 15.2 4 35 1.9 29.4
2006 26 NWE TE 13 13 49 643 13.1 3 40 3.8 49.5
2007 27 NWE te 12 8 36 389 10.8 6 35 3.0 32.4
2008 28 NWE TE 14 9 22 209 9.5 2 29 1.6 14.9
2009 29 NWE TE 16 7 29 404 13.9 5 36 1.8 25.3
2010 30 CLE TE 16 16 68 763 11.2 3 44 4
The answer seems simple: he was being under utilized by the Pats and he left. He had by far his best career numbers with the Browns.
IF we was "underutilized" why did Hernandez and Gronkowski have so much success this past season? The Patriot offense pre and post Randy Moss was/is a dink and dunk team. They don't take a lot of deep shots and Brady's passing breakdown this season displays exactly that AND it's no coincidence that the Patriots also had solid production from their TE's this season. Match up problems on a team with a less than stellar receiving core. Wes Welker is solid but Brandon Tate is young and Branch is over the hill and all of their numbers are inflated by Brady. Ben Watson was not underutilized. Ben Watson was expendable.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
Pot<>Kettle
No not really. You haven't really done anything but stat our opinion on empty statement and receiving stats for a position that doesn't just revolve around what the stats say. The TE position goes deeper than catches and yards it is a multi job position that can not be judged by stats alone but that is apparently all you can look at. And even all the factors that go into why he didn't do as well in NE are ignored. You use receiving stats from other TE who are used as slot receivers in a lot of situations and are actually the 2nd receiving option on their team where as Watson in NE and in Cleveland was used as a 3rd receiving option TE.
Oh and taking cracks at age is funny and pushing that I'm a homer is a riot. What I'm saying is that Watson is a top 15 TE and at tied for top TE in the AFCN. I'm not saying that he is the best TE receiving wise or blocking wise, but combined his receiving ability and blocking ability combined make him a top 15 TE. That's not a homer statement that is a statement from someone who is actually looking at all the factors that make up a TE to make an informed decision, not one from some narrow minded dude only looking at a stat sheet.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
No not really. You haven't really done anything but stat our opinion on empty statement and receiving stats for a position that doesn't just revolve around what the stats say. The TE position goes deeper than catches and yards it is a multi job position that can not be judged by stats alone but that is apparently all you can look at. And even all the factors that go into why he didn't do as well in NE are ignored. You use receiving stats from other TE who are used as slot receivers in a lot of situations and are actually the 2nd receiving option on their team where as Watson in NE and in Cleveland was used as a 3rd receiving option TE.Oh and taking cracks at age is funny and pushing that I'm a homer is a riot. What I'm saying is that Watson is a top 15 TE and at tied for top TE in the AFCN. I'm not saying that he is the best TE receiving wise or blocking wise, but combined his receiving ability and blocking ability combined make him a top 15 TE. That's not a homer statement that is a statement from someone who is actually looking at all the factors that make up a TE to make an informed decision, not one from some narrow minded dude only looking at a stat sheet.
Sorry, I'll start grading out Tight Ends like lineman and ignore the fact that catching the ball is the most important part of their job. The funny thing is, if I actually did that, Watson would still be behind Miller. I will agree with you that he is right around 15th in the league as far as TEs go. Which I believe is what I have been saying.
You guys just ignoring the check down and dump off factor is truly laughable though. The RB/TE positions accounted for 165 out of 296 completions this year. If you can't see why that makes the TE #s artificial then I really don't know how else I can state it. Once again, Watson is a pretty average TE.
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The question came up as to why Watson was not still with the Patriots. I think the reason may be in these stats:
2005 25 NWE TE 15 9 29 441 15.2 4 35 1.9 29.4
2006 26 NWE TE 13 13 49 643 13.1 3 40 3.8 49.5
2007 27 NWE te 12 8 36 389 10.8 6 35 3.0 32.4
2008 28 NWE TE 14 9 22 209 9.5 2 29 1.6 14.9
2009 29 NWE TE 16 7 29 404 13.9 5 36 1.8 25.3
2010 30 CLE TE 16 16 68 763 11.2 3 44 4
The answer seems simple: he was being under utilized by the Pats and he left. He had by far his best career numbers with the Browns.
IF we was "underutilized" why did Hernandez and Gronkowski have so much success this past season? The Patriot offense pre and post Randy Moss was/is a dink and dunk team. They don't take a lot of deep shots and Brady's passing breakdown this season displays exactly that AND it's no coincidence that the Patriots also had solid production from their TE's this season. Match up problems on a team with a less than stellar receiving core. Wes Welker is solid but Brandon Tate is young and Branch is over the hill and all of their numbers are inflated by Brady. Ben Watson was not underutilized. Ben Watson was expendable.
Homotron said:
IF we was "underutilized" why did Hernandez and Gronkowski have so much success this past season? The Patriot offense pre and post Randy Moss was/is a dink and dunk team. They don't take a lot of deep shots and Brady's passing breakdown this season displays exactly that AND it's no coincidence that the Patriots also had solid production from their TE's this season. Match up problems on a team with a less than stellar receiving core. Wes Welker is solid but Brandon Tate is young and Branch is over the hill and all of their numbers are inflated by Brady. Ben Watson was not underutilized. Ben Watson was expendable.Maybe Watson was expendable under Belichick's system. So was one of the greatest receivers of all time, Randy Moss.
Watson apparently didn't thrive under Belichick's system, but he certainly thrived with a team that had a lot lesser talent around him.
And perhaps it is no coincidence that Ben Watson had solid production after getting away from Belichick.
I mean, gee, Troy Aikman didn't do too well under Barry Switzer's Wishbone offense. That made him expendable as well.
Len Dawson was expendable by both the Steelers and the Browns who cut him, but he went on to become a Hall of Famer.
Drew Brees was expendable by the Chargers. How's he doing now? etc. etc. Lots of people don't fit in certain systems. Hell, if Joe Montana had been drafted by any other team than the 49ers he may have been a bust for all we know. But it was the right place right time for him. But it might have be the right place, wrong time for Watson:
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mikeyP72 said:
Ben Watson - 5th in Receiving for TE's. His 11.2 AVG is middle of the road when it comes to TE's. Not to mention that he caught 40 1st down passes and had 10 passes over 20 yards long and 1 for over 40 yards (there goes the dumb comment about all of his catches being short dump offs).Catches- 68
Yards- 763
Avg- 11.2
Long- 44
TD- 3
Sources: NFL.com and ClevelandBrowns.com
I wouldn't call 39th middle of the road and for a guy that is supposed to be as good as you want him to be, 3 TDs isn't exactly what dreams are made of either. Also, I love how all I do is throw up empty stats and you back up your statement with, wait a minute, what's this? The same thing. Nice job in reaffirming pot<>kettle.
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
No not really. You haven't really done anything but stat our opinion on empty statement and receiving stats for a position that doesn't just revolve around what the stats say. The TE position goes deeper than catches and yards it is a multi job position that can not be judged by stats alone but that is apparently all you can look at. And even all the factors that go into why he didn't do as well in NE are ignored. You use receiving stats from other TE who are used as slot receivers in a lot of situations and are actually the 2nd receiving option on their team where as Watson in NE and in Cleveland was used as a 3rd receiving option TE.Oh and taking cracks at age is funny and pushing that I'm a homer is a riot. What I'm saying is that Watson is a top 15 TE and at tied for top TE in the AFCN. I'm not saying that he is the best TE receiving wise or blocking wise, but combined his receiving ability and blocking ability combined make him a top 15 TE. That's not a homer statement that is a statement from someone who is actually looking at all the factors that make up a TE to make an informed decision, not one from some narrow minded dude only looking at a stat sheet.
Sorry, I'll start grading out Tight Ends like lineman and ignore the fact that catching the ball is the most important part of their job. The funny thing is, if I actually did that, Watson would still be behind Miller. I will agree with you that he is right around 15th in the league as far as TEs go. Which I believe is what I have been saying.
You guys just ignoring the check down and dump off factor is truly laughable though. The RB/TE positions accounted for 165 out of 296 completions this year. If you can't see why that makes the TE #s artificial then I really don't know how else I can state it. Once again, Watson is a pretty average TE.
Sorry, I'll start grading out Tight Ends like lineman and ignore the fact that catching the ball is the most important part of their job. The funny thing is, if I actually did that, Watson would still be behind Miller. I will agree with you that he is right around 15th in the league as far as TEs go. Which I believe is what I have been saying.
You guys just ignoring the check down and dump off factor is truly laughable though. The RB/TE positions accounted for 165 out of 296 completions this year. If you can't see why that makes the TE #s artificial then I really don't know how else I can state it. Once again, Watson is a pretty average TE.
TE need to do both, otherwise they are just glorified slot receivers. To think that Miller is a better blocker is just stupid. The might have the same receiving ability but Watson is way better at run blocking.
I always like conversations like this though because it allows me to find out who really knows what they are talking about and who is just blowing smoke out of their ass. You are blowing smoke out of your ass. I wouldn't be surprised if your name was your actual job. Papa John's or Dominoes'.
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I wouldn't be surprised if your name was your actual job
just blowing smoke out of their ass
your opinion is wrong douche bag
Again Retard
and thread/
Seriously, I've wasted too much time arguing about an average TE.
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Sorry, I'll start grading out Tight Ends like lineman and ignore the fact that catching the ball is the most important part of their job. The funny thing is, if I actually did that, Watson would still be behind Miller. I will agree with you that he is right around 15th in the league as far as TEs go. Which I believe is what I have been saying.
You guys just ignoring the check down and dump off factor is truly laughable though. The RB/TE positions accounted for 165 out of 296 completions this year. If you can't see why that makes the TE #s artificial then I really don't know how else I can state it. Once again, Watson is a pretty average TE.
TE need to do both, otherwise they are just glorified slot receivers. To think that Miller is a better blocker is just stupid. The might have the same receiving ability but Watson is way better at run blocking.
I always like conversations like this though because it allows me to find out who really knows what they are talking about and who is just blowing smoke out of their ass. You are blowing smoke out of your ass. I wouldn't be surprised if your name was your actual job. Papa John's or Dominoes'.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
TE need to do both, otherwise they are just glorified slot receivers. To think that Miller is a better blocker is just stupid. The might have the same receiving ability but Watson is way better at run blocking.I always like conversations like this though because it allows me to find out who really knows what they are talking about and who is just blowing smoke out of their ass. You are blowing smoke out of your ass. I wouldn't be surprised if your name was your actual job. Papa John's or Dominoes'.
Man this is going to be a long off season if all that goes on around here is arguments about 2 middle of the pack TE's. These 2 TE's are pretty close to being a wash.
And Miller probably is a little bit better blocking TE and Watson is a little more of a threat to make a play with the ball. JMHO. I don't mind having Watson and I wouldn't mind having Miller even. I also wouldn't think switching one with the other would be an upgrade. There are cerainly atleast a handful of TE's better then both of them.
With all that being said I hope we resign Evan Moore ... I would like to see what he develops into. He has some nice upside to be a nice pass catching TE. Great hands and good size.
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Hillis-iz-Boss said:
TE need to do both, otherwise they are just glorified slot receivers. To think that Miller is a better blocker is just stupid. The might have the same receiving ability but Watson is way better at run blocking.I always like conversations like this though because it allows me to find out who really knows what they are talking about and who is just blowing smoke out of their ass. You are blowing smoke out of your ass. I wouldn't be surprised if your name was your actual job. Papa John's or Dominoes'.
Man this is going to be a long off season if all that goes on around here is arguments about 2 middle of the pack TE's. These 2 TE's are pretty close to being a wash.
And Miller probably is a little bit better blocking TE and Watson is a little more of a threat to make a play with the ball. JMHO. I don't mind having Watson and I wouldn't mind having Miller even. I also wouldn't think switching one with the other would be an upgrade. There are cerainly atleast a handful of TE's better then both of them.
With all that being said I hope we resign Evan Moore ... I would like to see what he develops into. He has some nice upside to be a nice pass catching TE. Great hands and good size.
Man this is going to be a long off season if all that goes on around here is arguments about 2 middle of the pack TE's. These 2 TE's are pretty close to being a wash.
And Miller probably is a little bit better blocking TE and Watson is a little more of a threat to make a play with the ball. JMHO. I don't mind having Watson and I wouldn't mind having Miller even. I also wouldn't think switching one with the other would be an upgrade. There are cerainly atleast a handful of TE's better then both of them.
With all that being said I hope we resign Evan Moore ... I would like to see what he develops into. He has some nice upside to be a nice pass catching TE. Great hands and good size.
Lol Heath Miller isn't a average TE and the only individuals on planet earth that would say that he is reside on this message board. They are in no way, shape or form a wash and that isn't being a homer. Watson is a average TE on a team with very average passing options. Hillis ran the ball well which at least opened things up for Watson over the middle. TE's with decent speed are usually match up problems so it's easier for a average TE to do something on a average offense than it would be a receiver, especially one quarterbacked by a rookie QB. Ben Watson is not that good. Sorry fellas, he just isn't. Miller is a top 10 te, bottom of the top 10 but still top 10. Period.
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Man this is going to be a long off season if all that goes on around here is arguments about 2 middle of the pack TE's. These 2 TE's are pretty close to being a wash.
And Miller probably is a little bit better blocking TE and Watson is a little more of a threat to make a play with the ball. JMHO. I don't mind having Watson and I wouldn't mind having Miller even. I also wouldn't think switching one with the other would be an upgrade. There are cerainly atleast a handful of TE's better then both of them.
With all that being said I hope we resign Evan Moore ... I would like to see what he develops into. He has some nice upside to be a nice pass catching TE. Great hands and good size.
Lol Heath Miller isn't a average TE and the only individuals on planet earth that would say that he is reside on this message board. They are in no way, shape or form a wash and that isn't being a homer. Watson is a average TE on a team with very average passing options. Hillis ran the ball well which at least opened things up for Watson over the middle. TE's with decent speed are usually match up problems so it's easier for a average TE to do something on a average offense than it would be a receiver, especially one quarterbacked by a rookie QB. Ben Watson is not that good. Sorry fellas, he just isn't. Miller is a top 10 te, bottom of the top 10 but still top 10. Period.
Homotron said:
Lol Heath Miller isn't a average TE and the only individuals on planet earth that would say that he is reside on this message board. They are in no way, shape or form a wash and that isn't being a homer. Watson is a average TE on a team with very average passing options. Hillis ran the ball well which at least opened things up for Watson over the middle. TE's with decent speed are usually match up problems so it's easier for a average TE to do something on a average offense than it would be a receiver, especially one quarterbacked by a rookie QB. Ben Watson is not that good. Sorry fellas, he just isn't. Miller is a top 10 te, bottom of the top 10 but still top 10. Period.Thats great that you don't think he is average. But the reality is he and Watson are both average and very much in the same tier of TE. It's not a knock on Miller or Watson, but the reality is they are middle of the pack guys. Those 2 are clumped in the middle with the likes of the Merceds Lewis, Brandon Pettigrew, Greg Olsen, Dustin Keller, Kevin Boss and Visanthe Shiancoe's of the league.
Sorry to break it to you.
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Not to bad for an average TE. Think miller coulda done this? Hell no!
I don't know what video you were trying to post. Was it this one.
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