Phil Dawson is Still a Brown!
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I'm trying not to get carried away this soon into the offseason but I just haven't liked anything they have done since the season ended. Phil is a kicker. Great guy, good kicker, but he's a kicker. There is no need to franchise him unless they are just doing him a personal favor for enduring this crap his entire career. I'm okay with that. But as a football move on it's own, it makes no sense.
The answer is kind of simple: each team is allowed to put the franchise tag on 1 player per year who is one of their free agents. If you have a good player in any particular year and you want to keep him and not see him walk you "tag" him...as long as you are willing to pay the price for that player of the top 5 players at that position in the league.
In this case the Browns had no other players of theirs who are free agents that they wanted to pay that kind of price for.....except Dawson. And if a team believes he is worth being paid in the top 5 in the league at his position why the eff not tag him? So they did. NOBODY else was going to get tagged, so use it or lose it.
Like I said, the only question to me is whether or not paying a kicker 3 mill may hurt in terms of the total salary cap you would use on your team.
One of the issues in the new NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement that expires this year is that most of the owners are going to push to be allowed to also use a franchise tag on a player. If they have a player that is a free agent they will be able to tag him and have him for at least another year....while they work on a possible contract extension.
Imagine if they had this in the NBA: the Cavs could have franchised Whatshisphuk, the Raptors could have franchised Bosh, the Nuggets could have franchised Carmelo, Minnesota could have franchised Garnett OK City could franchise Durant, Orlando could franchise Dwight Howard.
It would allow these teams to keep their quality players instead of losing them to the Lakerphuks, or the Bullshitassholes, or the Knickerpussies or the SickoCeltics etc.
The answer is kind of simple: each team is allowed to put the franchise tag on 1 player per year who is one of their free agents. If you have a good player in any particular year and you want to keep him and not see him walk you "tag" him...as long as you are willing to pay the price for that player of the top 5 players at that position in the league.
In this case the Browns had no other players of theirs who are free agents that they wanted to pay that kind of price for.....except Dawson. And if a team believes he is worth being paid in the top 5 in the league at his position why the eff not tag him? So they did. NOBODY else was going to get tagged, so use it or lose it.
Like I said, the only question to me is whether or not paying a kicker 3 mill may hurt in terms of the total salary cap you would use on your team.
One of the issues in the new NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement that expires this year is that most of the owners are going to push to be allowed to also use a franchise tag on a player. If they have a player that is a free agent they will be able to tag him and have him for at least another year....while they work on a possible contract extension.
Imagine if they had this in the NBA: the Cavs could have franchised Whatshisphuk, the Raptors could have franchised Bosh, the Nuggets could have franchised Carmelo, Minnesota could have franchised Garnett OK City could franchise Durant, Orlando could franchise Dwight Howard.
It would allow these teams to keep their quality players instead of losing them to the Lakerphuks, or the Bullshitassholes, or the Knickerpussies or the SickoCeltics etc.
Good take, but YOU do NOT have to franchise any player...........and nobody is going to offer Phil Dawson a huge sum of money. He is NOT a great kicker, he is a consistent good kicker who is getting old. I cannot believe this team does not have one player of enough quality to franchise except an old kicker
Offense Wins.......Franchise QB's are the key.............Defense keeps you in the game.........Go Buckeyes -
With the make up of the current Browns roster it's safe to say they wont be blowing teams out with any consistency..
This is a smart move, in that, an accurate kicker can win a lot of close games for a marginal team..
Once the Browns get enough impact players, that might be the right time to add a young leg to just suppliment the offense...
At this point Dawson is our most ligitimate scorer.. Glad to have him here..
Peace
T.Dawg
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He may deserve it, but is he worth it? Does he still have the leg to kick +50 yd FG's?
He kicked and made a 58 yard field goal during the preseason win over Green Bay. The way I see it all the FA that are going out are not worth top pay in the league, Phil is one of the top kickers in this league and to resign him you would have to pay him over 2 million anyway. At this point they would have to hammer out a deal BEFORE the CBA expires on the 4th and I have yet to see a contract ever get signed in two weeks. They only had a few days to place the franchise tag and if they didn't and they wanted to keep him they would have to take a gamble and hope that they could hammer out a deal before it is too late. They made a smart move by just giving him an extra million in order to make sure that he will be back next season and to give them the ability to resign Phil next year to a contract instead of another franchise tag.
Phil is one of the top kickers only making slightly more now than he deserves and we now have a chance to resign Phil next season. Smart move by management.
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The answer is kind of simple: each team is allowed to put the franchise tag on 1 player per year who is one of their free agents. If you have a good player in any particular year and you want to keep him and not see him walk you "tag" him...as long as you are willing to pay the price for that player of the top 5 players at that position in the league.
In this case the Browns had no other players of theirs who are free agents that they wanted to pay that kind of price for.....except Dawson. And if a team believes he is worth being paid in the top 5 in the league at his position why the eff not tag him? So they did. NOBODY else was going to get tagged, so use it or lose it.
Like I said, the only question to me is whether or not paying a kicker 3 mill may hurt in terms of the total salary cap you would use on your team.
One of the issues in the new NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement that expires this year is that most of the owners are going to push to be allowed to also use a franchise tag on a player. If they have a player that is a free agent they will be able to tag him and have him for at least another year....while they work on a possible contract extension.
Imagine if they had this in the NBA: the Cavs could have franchised Whatshisphuk, the Raptors could have franchised Bosh, the Nuggets could have franchised Carmelo, Minnesota could have franchised Garnett OK City could franchise Durant, Orlando could franchise Dwight Howard.
It would allow these teams to keep their quality players instead of losing them to the Lakerphuks, or the Bullshitassholes, or the Knickerpussies or the SickoCeltics etc.
Good take, but YOU do NOT have to franchise any player...........and nobody is going to offer Phil Dawson a huge sum of money. He is NOT a great kicker, he is a consistent good kicker who is getting old. I cannot believe this team does not have one player of enough quality to franchise except an old kicker
Good take, but YOU do NOT have to franchise any player. I know you don't HAVE to, but if you want to, the option is there....
......and nobody is going to offer Phil Dawson a huge sum of money. He is NOT a great kicker, he is a consistent good kicker who is getting old. See my prior posts, almost all the good ones have quite a few years on them.
I cannot believe this team does not have one player of enough quality to franchise except an old kicker. They may, but none of them apparently are free agents this year.
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Lou Groza, greatest kicker of all-time lasted 21 years. To me kicking is not as rough as other positions. Not saying it isn't as important, just that they aren't physically active as much. Keep the leg healthy and stay in shape. They don't need to worry about getting hit like other positions, and the running is a minimum. He doesn't seem to be struggling, and I'd take Phil over a rookie any day...
Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
What does phil dawson have in common with the steelers? Nothing! So why bring them into your argument?! Plus the steelers kicker missed a crucial field goal in the super bowl and was anything but clutch.. Kickers are "3 dozen for a penny except for a few?" What a load of crap! No one here is saying that the kicker is the most important player on the team (or even close) but you need a good, consistent kicker to win close games. The browns had no one else to tag. Why waste a draft pick on a new kicker or take some leftover kicker in free agency when you have a great one that you can keep?
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Lou Groza, greatest kicker of all-time lasted 21 years. To me kicking is not as rough as other positions. Not saying it isn't as important, just that they aren't physically active as much. Keep the leg healthy and stay in shape. They don't need to worry about getting hit like other positions, and the running is a minimum. He doesn't seem to be struggling, and I'd take Phil over a rookie any day...
Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
and your kicker was TERRIBLE! He missed a fg 50yds left and was not even close
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most teams do not franchise a 36 yr old kicker for $3.25M per year unless they have all of the other pieces in place to make a run at a championship.
Looks like the Browns have realized that touchdowns are out of reach and field goals are the norm.
Holmgren has a total of 5 wins since assuming command of the Browns organization. Mikey is in way over his head - can you say clueless and collecting a fat paycheck?
Seneca Wallace? Jake Delhomme? Phil Dawson? 5 wins? too damn funny! The Browns always hire the least qualified personnel.
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Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
and your kicker was TERRIBLE! He missed a fg 50yds left and was not even close
...........................
You seem to have a love of.................periods......................................................
...............steelers.....................................suck
and your kicker was TERRIBLE! He missed a fg 50yds left and was not even close
I guess it's easy to say kickers arent worth anything when the one you have on your team sucks and played a big part in losing the biggest game of the year.
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Lol....wow....
Franchising a kicker......woooooow.....
The trainwreck continues. I like Dawson, but this is beyond competant coherent thinking. Great job fatass....
Lol....wow....
Franchising a kicker......woooooow.....
The trainwreck continues. I like Dawson, but this is beyond competant coherent thinking. Great job fatass....
Another example of people just shunning anything the front office doesn't now. Guess what Mangini was fired, get over it already. He over paid a kicker because he would then have to sign Dawson in less than 2 weeks to a deal that would be worth only a million less than the franchise tag cost. I like the fact he took the safe route of bringing Dawson back over trying a contract negotiation that had a good chance of not getting done in time for the CBA to expire. You people act like he is making more than Tom Brady, or acting like we had anyone else of worth on the team going into FA that deserved the tag over Dawson.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
Good for Phil. But it's an Oakland/Cincy move. Who franchises a fooking kicker?!?!
You franchise who you have to.
We had a tag to use on a player we wanted to keep and didn't have to use it on another.
Kicker, RT, LB, QB, what's the difference???
At least we didn't have to make a choice.
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Now this is what the Steelers do:
Woodley accepts Steelers' franchise tag offer
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11054/1127421-100.stm
That is the difference between winners and losers. $3.25M for a kicker on a 5 win team??? two years in a row???
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...holmgren_9.html
2nd part of the article talks about why Holmgren tagged Dawson. They want to work out a multi year deal with Dawson and the only way to keep other teams from talking to him so that they could work on the contract after the CBA is finalized.
Also interesting is that Holmgren pointed out that they are drafting best available player and not by position with the first pick. That means there is a chance we take Green or Peterson over a DL prospect in the draft.
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I see NOTHING wrong with tagging your teams leading scorer. You are an idiot if you do.
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Now this is what the Steelers do:
Woodley accepts Steelers' franchise tag offer
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11054/1127421-100.stm
That is the difference between winners and losers. $3.25M for a kicker on a 5 win team??? two years in a row???
Now this is what the Steelers do:
Woodley accepts Steelers' franchise tag offer
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11054/1127421-100.stm
That is the difference between winners and losers. $3.25M for a kicker on a 5 win team??? two years in a row???
Get your facts straight. Dawson is the first player the Browns have ever franchised. I suppose the Patriots were stupid for franchising Vinaterri.
Woodley? Who wouldn't "accept" $10 million bucks? FWIW, he doesn't have a choice either. He can take the cash, or sit for a year and get zilch. Tough decision.
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...holmgren_9.html
Dawson's tag: Holmgren said that the Browns used the franchise tag on placekicker Phil Dawson to give them time to work out a multi-year deal.
Talks broke down before the 2010 season, but the club hopes to resume negotiations after the league's labor dispute is resolved.
"Until we can come to something that they like for long term, this is our way to keep him," Holmgren said. "He's really good. I didn't want him going anywhere. And if you look at our roster, there's not a lot of other candidates [to replace Dawson]."
Dawson sold his house in Westlake during the season in anticipation of moving on in free agency. The franchise tag assures him a one-year salary of about $3.25 million -- more than three times what he was paid in 2010.
Many players react negatively to the franchise tag because it pretty much keeps them off the market. Dawson has declined to comment on the Browns' action. Holmgren said he has not talked to Dawson recently.
"He was upset about a lot of things when I first came on [as Browns president]," Holmgren said. "I think our relationship improved because I think he realized -- I think -- that he could trust us when we said what we'd try to do.
"He wants to win. He's a competitive guy. And he's an awfully good player. That's why we did what we did."
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Lou Groza, greatest kicker of all-time lasted 21 years. To me kicking is not as rough as other positions. Not saying it isn't as important, just that they aren't physically active as much. Keep the leg healthy and stay in shape. They don't need to worry about getting hit like other positions, and the running is a minimum. He doesn't seem to be struggling, and I'd take Phil over a rookie any day...
Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
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most teams do not franchise a 36 yr old kicker for $3.25M per year unless they have all of the other pieces in place to make a run at a championship.
Looks like the Browns have realized that touchdowns are out of reach and field goals are the norm.
Holmgren has a total of 5 wins since assuming command of the Browns organization. Mikey is in way over his head - can you say clueless and collecting a fat paycheck?
Seneca Wallace? Jake Delhomme? Phil Dawson? 5 wins? too damn funny! The Browns always hire the least qualified personnel.
most teams do not franchise a 36 yr old kicker for $3.25M per year unless they have all of the other pieces in place to make a run at a championship.
...or, if the kicker is the only free agent of a particular team that is worth putting the franchise tag on. You guys are putting way too much emphasis on this "Franchise Tag" thing, as if it is only supposed to be reserved for Hall of Fame type players. That is not and never was the point of the franchise tag. It is simply there to preserve a team's right to retain for an additional year a free agent player whom they think will be valuable to their team. There is no penalty for using it.
A team simply has to choose which of their free agents that is worthy of retention.
See, the choice comes down to this: If you object to the franchise tag being used on Dawson, then you HAVE to say which Browns free agent SHOULD the Browns have used the franchise tag on instead of Dawson.
Lets here it. Give us the name of the player that should have been franchised instead of Dawson.
If you didn't like this move then you have to have had in mind a better move.
If you don't have an alternative in mind, then shut the F**K up.
Looks like the Browns have realized that touchdowns are out of reach and field goals are the norm.
They realize that of the 16 games they played last year, 12 of them were decided by 10 points of less and that it is highly probable that this coming season they will also play in many, many close call games, and that a reliable kicker is vital to attempt to win those close games. Anyone that doesn't realize that is a fool.
Holmgren has a total of 5 wins since assuming command of the Browns organization. Mikey is in way over his head - can you say clueless and collecting a fat paycheck?
Without Dawson it may have been only 2 wins. As I see it, he was the difference in 3 wins for the Browns.
The only person who is clueless and collect a paycheck is you....though I doubt you actually work and collect a paycheck at all.
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Now this is what the Steelers do:
Woodley accepts Steelers' franchise tag offer
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11054/1127421-100.stm
That is the difference between winners and losers. $3.25M for a kicker on a 5 win team??? two years in a row???
Now this is what the Steelers do:
Woodley accepts Steelers' franchise tag offer
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11054/1127421-100.stm
That is the difference between winners and losers. $3.25M for a kicker on a 5 win team??? two years in a row???
If the Browns had a free agent THIS Year that would have been as good as Woodley, then they would have franchised him.
Now, you tell us: which Browns free agent was as good as Woodley?
Lets put it this way: sometimes the difference between winners and losers is who has the more reliable kicker.
When the Steelers begin losing close game after close game because Jeff Reed can't make his kicks, then we will see what kind of crying you will do about getting/keeping a good kicker.
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Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Just a note on that: As I understand it, Dawson has already surpassed Groza in the number of Field Goals made for the Browns. The difference I assume then in their point totals would be solely based on the number of extra points made by Groza? That would be a hell of a lot of extra points.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
In retrospect though, both of those guys seem to be outstanding, so who knows, maybe they were worth the first round pick. Didn't the Raiders win 3 SBs as Guy as their punter?
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