Phil Dawson is Still a Brown!
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http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/...holmgren_9.html
Dawson's tag: Holmgren said that the Browns used the franchise tag on placekicker Phil Dawson to give them time to work out a multi-year deal.
Talks broke down before the 2010 season, but the club hopes to resume negotiations after the league's labor dispute is resolved.
"Until we can come to something that they like for long term, this is our way to keep him," Holmgren said. "He's really good. I didn't want him going anywhere. And if you look at our roster, there's not a lot of other candidates [to replace Dawson]."
Dawson sold his house in Westlake during the season in anticipation of moving on in free agency. The franchise tag assures him a one-year salary of about $3.25 million -- more than three times what he was paid in 2010.
Many players react negatively to the franchise tag because it pretty much keeps them off the market. Dawson has declined to comment on the Browns' action. Holmgren said he has not talked to Dawson recently.
"He was upset about a lot of things when I first came on [as Browns president]," Holmgren said. "I think our relationship improved because I think he realized -- I think -- that he could trust us when we said what we'd try to do.
"He wants to win. He's a competitive guy. And he's an awfully good player. That's why we did what we did."
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Lou Groza, greatest kicker of all-time lasted 21 years. To me kicking is not as rough as other positions. Not saying it isn't as important, just that they aren't physically active as much. Keep the leg healthy and stay in shape. They don't need to worry about getting hit like other positions, and the running is a minimum. He doesn't seem to be struggling, and I'd take Phil over a rookie any day...
Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
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most teams do not franchise a 36 yr old kicker for $3.25M per year unless they have all of the other pieces in place to make a run at a championship.
Looks like the Browns have realized that touchdowns are out of reach and field goals are the norm.
Holmgren has a total of 5 wins since assuming command of the Browns organization. Mikey is in way over his head - can you say clueless and collecting a fat paycheck?
Seneca Wallace? Jake Delhomme? Phil Dawson? 5 wins? too damn funny! The Browns always hire the least qualified personnel.
most teams do not franchise a 36 yr old kicker for $3.25M per year unless they have all of the other pieces in place to make a run at a championship.
...or, if the kicker is the only free agent of a particular team that is worth putting the franchise tag on. You guys are putting way too much emphasis on this "Franchise Tag" thing, as if it is only supposed to be reserved for Hall of Fame type players. That is not and never was the point of the franchise tag. It is simply there to preserve a team's right to retain for an additional year a free agent player whom they think will be valuable to their team. There is no penalty for using it.
A team simply has to choose which of their free agents that is worthy of retention.
See, the choice comes down to this: If you object to the franchise tag being used on Dawson, then you HAVE to say which Browns free agent SHOULD the Browns have used the franchise tag on instead of Dawson.
Lets here it. Give us the name of the player that should have been franchised instead of Dawson.
If you didn't like this move then you have to have had in mind a better move.
If you don't have an alternative in mind, then shut the F**K up.
Looks like the Browns have realized that touchdowns are out of reach and field goals are the norm.
They realize that of the 16 games they played last year, 12 of them were decided by 10 points of less and that it is highly probable that this coming season they will also play in many, many close call games, and that a reliable kicker is vital to attempt to win those close games. Anyone that doesn't realize that is a fool.
Holmgren has a total of 5 wins since assuming command of the Browns organization. Mikey is in way over his head - can you say clueless and collecting a fat paycheck?
Without Dawson it may have been only 2 wins. As I see it, he was the difference in 3 wins for the Browns.
The only person who is clueless and collect a paycheck is you....though I doubt you actually work and collect a paycheck at all.
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Now this is what the Steelers do:
Woodley accepts Steelers' franchise tag offer
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11054/1127421-100.stm
That is the difference between winners and losers. $3.25M for a kicker on a 5 win team??? two years in a row???
Now this is what the Steelers do:
Woodley accepts Steelers' franchise tag offer
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11054/1127421-100.stm
That is the difference between winners and losers. $3.25M for a kicker on a 5 win team??? two years in a row???
If the Browns had a free agent THIS Year that would have been as good as Woodley, then they would have franchised him.
Now, you tell us: which Browns free agent was as good as Woodley?
Lets put it this way: sometimes the difference between winners and losers is who has the more reliable kicker.
When the Steelers begin losing close game after close game because Jeff Reed can't make his kicks, then we will see what kind of crying you will do about getting/keeping a good kicker.
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Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
Rich, you're looking up at the sky and saying "it's not blue". Top 10 ever in FG accuracy isn't "journeyman". Top 50 ever in scoring isn't "journeyman". Journeyman kickers don't last 10+ years in the NFL. Martin Grammatica, where art thou? Groza belongs to an extinct species- and if you didn't notice (and I'll say it again) Dawson plays another 5 years (which barring injury he's totally capable of) he will pass Lou in points scored. Go ahead and counter that Lou played in 12 and 14 game seasons- and I'll come back with Dawson has never played on a team remotely as good as Groza's Browns.
Just a note on that: As I understand it, Dawson has already surpassed Groza in the number of Field Goals made for the Browns. The difference I assume then in their point totals would be solely based on the number of extra points made by Groza? That would be a hell of a lot of extra points.
Ah, but to be a kicker is to be a "journeyman" if you want to define it that way. Of the top 50 kickers all time, only nine have played their entire career with one team- and THREE of them have happened to play for the Browns- So how's that for a coincidence? If they're good, you keep 'em!!!
Yeah that Suisham pickup by the Squealers was a great move- too bad he tried to aim for the corner pylon instead of the uprights on that 50 yard miss in the SB. Gave the 'Pack a short field to work with, thank you very much.
Most teams do pick their kickers up off the street- unless you're Alzheimer addled Al Davis, who has managed to draft BOTH a Punter (Ray Guy) AND a kicker (Janikowski) in the first round. Now THAT'S idiocy- when both those guys could have been had several rounds later.
In retrospect though, both of those guys seem to be outstanding, so who knows, maybe they were worth the first round pick. Didn't the Raiders win 3 SBs as Guy as their punter?
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Lol....wow....
Franchising a kicker......woooooow.....
The trainwreck continues. I like Dawson, but this is beyond competant coherent thinking. Great job fatass....
Another example of people just shunning anything the front office doesn't now. Guess what Mangini was fired, get over it already. He over paid a kicker because he would then have to sign Dawson in less than 2 weeks to a deal that would be worth only a million less than the franchise tag cost. I like the fact he took the safe route of bringing Dawson back over trying a contract negotiation that had a good chance of not getting done in time for the CBA to expire. You people act like he is making more than Tom Brady, or acting like we had anyone else of worth on the team going into FA that deserved the tag over Dawson.
Hillis-iz-Boss said:
Another example of people just shunning anything the front office does now. Guess what Mangini was fired, get over it already.bingo!
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Lou Groza, greatest kicker of all-time lasted 21 years. To me kicking is not as rough as other positions. Not saying it isn't as important, just that they aren't physically active as much. Keep the leg healthy and stay in shape. They don't need to worry about getting hit like other positions, and the running is a minimum. He doesn't seem to be struggling, and I'd take Phil over a rookie any day...
Lou Groza was way more than a kicker he was a hall of fame left tackle and a kicker who actually made the first contact downfield on his kick offs................but that may escape you. Lou Groza was the best of the best for a long long time.................
I like Phil Dawson and love his long tenure. But we are not a good football team yet. Worse, kickers are not a dime a dozen rather three dozen for a penny except for a very few. Last year the great fruitcake loser Jeff Reed was the hero in Pittsburgh and now he is shoveling bandanas in the gay part of San Francisco. The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........they made the BOWL
So, next time I hear franchising a 13 year vet journeyman kicker is a good idea it is another nail in the coffin of a fan base gone brain dead...........not to mention Management
I cannot imagine why Holmgren and co did this..............
I would love to see the rationale
The Steelers picked a guy off the street and never missed a beat.........
you sure he never missed a beat? if i remember correctly, he missed a beat in the super bowl (you know, the biggest game of the year?). wow, you never cease to amaze me with your not so well thought out steeler homerish posts. other people have already shown exactly why dawson was franchised. it makes sense to those of us who have common sense. i can see why you don't get it, though (or don't want to get it).
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Here is the deal on Dawson and Groza:
Dawson career:
FGs: 252 of 303 attempts
XPs: 301 of 309 attempts
Career points: 1065
Groza: career:
FGs: 264 of 481 attempts
XPs: 810 of 833 attempts
plus Lou scored 1 TD
Career points: 1608 These include AAFC years.
It is unbelieveable that Groza's teams scored more than 500 more TDs than Dawsons. Or is it?
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Here is the deal on Dawson and Groza:
Dawson career:
FGs: 252 of 303 attempts
XPs: 301 of 309 attempts
Career points: 1065
Groza: career:
FGs: 264 of 481 attempts
XPs: 810 of 833 attempts
plus Lou scored 1 TD
Career points: 1608 These include AAFC years.
It is unbelieveable that Groza's teams scored more than 500 more TDs than Dawsons. Or is it?
Here is the deal on Dawson and Groza:
Dawson career:
FGs: 252 of 303 attempts
XPs: 301 of 309 attempts
Career points: 1065
Groza: career:
FGs: 264 of 481 attempts
XPs: 810 of 833 attempts
plus Lou scored 1 TD
Career points: 1608 These include AAFC years.
It is unbelieveable that Groza's teams scored more than 500 more TDs than Dawsons. Or is it?
i pretty much figured this was the case. thanks for the stats.
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Also, compare this: Dawson has played 12 years now and is 301 of 309 in extra point attempts
Don Cockroft played 13 years for the Browns and was 432 of 457 in extra point attempts.
Both played their entire careers with the Browns. (at least Dawson has so far)
In only 1 additional year Cockroft had 148 more extra point attempts than Dawson has. And remember, he played the good portion of his career under a 14 game schedule.
Essentially what this says is that the Cleveland Browns from 1968-1980 scored 148 more touchdowns than the Cleveland Browns of 1999-2010. (and remember, some of those years in the 70s were bad years for the Browns.)
(though, correct me if I am wrong....wasn't there a period of time in a couple of seasons where Dawson was injured and temporarily replaced? I don't recall if that ever happened to Cockroft)
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To answer my own question from above, the only time Dawson has missed were 5 games in 2008 when Billy Cundiff stood in, and another 3 games in 2003 when Brett Conway filled in. Otherwise since 1999 except for those 8 games Phil Dawson has made every other kick for the Browns.
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Gipper: In retrospect though, both of those guys seem to be outstanding, so who knows, maybe they were worth the first round pick. Didn't the Raiders win 3 SBs as Guy as their punter?
Yes they did- and Guy is the only punter that deserves induction into the HOF. BUT I'll posit both Guy and Janikowski would have lasted until at least the second round if Davis hadn't taken them in the first. The only other Kickers I can remember getting drafted high are Tom Sladanky (second), Mike Nugent (second), and Martin Grammatica (third).
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$3.25 Million for a kicker? 36 years old and was ranked 17th out of 32 kickers in the 2010 season?
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$3.25 Million for a kicker? 36 years old and was ranked 17th out of 32 kickers in the 2010 season?
$3.25 Million for a kicker? 36 years old and was ranked 17th out of 32 kickers in the 2010 season?
You such a xxxx. Go back to your Steelers board and feel all butt hurt over losing the Super Bowl.
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$3.25 Million for a kicker? 36 years old and was ranked 17th out of 32 kickers in the 2010 season?
$3.25 Million for a kicker? 36 years old and was ranked 17th out of 32 kickers in the 2010 season?
Where do you get that "ranking" from? Is that based simply on the number of points he scored? Then such a ranking is absurd.
Did you see the analysis above where I indicated that Lou Groza kicked 500 more TDs in his career than has Dawson.
That means the team behind him scored 500 more Touchdowns.
Kickers are really a product of the offense they are a part of. If an offense cannot score TDs a kicker can't kick extra points. If an offense can't matriculate the ball into field goal range a kicker can't attempt a field goal.
Dawson only attempted 28 extra points this past year. A couple of kickers in the league had 50 some or in the high 40s of extra point attempts. Some kickers also had nearly double the amount of FG attempts.
It is as simple as that.
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Phil Dawson ranks 17th out of 32 kickers for the 2010 season.
This information is located at www.nfl.com
here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go
Gipper, please be objective and recognize that this was a dumb move by the Browns. Facts are facts, no need to analyze 2+2 =4.
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Phil Dawson ranks 17th out of 32 kickers for the 2010 season.
This information is located at www.nfl.com
here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go
Gipper, please be objective and recognize that this was a dumb move by the Browns. Facts are facts, no need to analyze 2+2 =4.
Phil Dawson ranks 17th out of 32 kickers for the 2010 season.
This information is located at www.nfl.com
here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go
Gipper, please be objective and recognize that this was a dumb move by the Browns. Facts are facts, no need to analyze 2+2 =4.
This "ranking" does nothing but list which kickers made the most field goals, which as I said, says everything about the offense the kicker plays for and their ability to get into FG territory, and nothing about the ability of the kicker himself.
Why didn't you just rank them by the number of Extra points each kicker made? That would be a different ranking.
Or how about FG percentage? That is yet again another ranking. And there could be 10 other methods of ranking.
So, of course you have to analyze it. So 2+2=4. But then what do you do with the 4? What do you add it to? What do you subtract from it, what do you multiply it by, and what do you divide it by? And what does the 4 reprsent? 4 specks of sand? 4 solar systems? 4 women lining up to give you a blow job? And why did you choose 2 and 2 together to get to the 4? Why didn't you choose 1 +3 or 6-2?
It seems pretty easy to tell that you likely dropped out of junior high.
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Phil Dawson ranks 17th out of 32 kickers for the 2010 season.
This information is located at www.nfl.com
here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go
Gipper, please be objective and recognize that this was a dumb move by the Browns. Facts are facts, no need to analyze 2+2 =4.
Phil Dawson ranks 17th out of 32 kickers for the 2010 season.
This information is located at www.nfl.com
here is the link.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?arc...e&Submit=Go
Gipper, please be objective and recognize that this was a dumb move by the Browns. Facts are facts, no need to analyze 2+2 =4.
Ya don't look at his lifetime stats because those don't count. If we went on that then Flacco is horrible because his last game wasn't as good, Ben can't win a superbowl, Cribbs was never a good returner, and Brett Favre was always a pervert. You can not define someone just from there most recent actions. Flacco is above average to good, Ben can win a super bowl and rape women, Cribb's is going to be in the HoF for his returning ability, Favre is one of the best players to step foot on the field of football, and Dawson is a fantastic kicker.
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Gipper: In retrospect though, both of those guys seem to be outstanding, so who knows, maybe they were worth the first round pick. Didn't the Raiders win 3 SBs as Guy as their punter?
Yes they did- and Guy is the only punter that deserves induction into the HOF. BUT I'll posit both Guy and Janikowski would have lasted until at least the second round if Davis hadn't taken them in the first. The only other Kickers I can remember getting drafted high are Tom Sladanky (second), Mike Nugent (second), and Martin Grammatica (third).
Gipper: In retrospect though, both of those guys seem to be outstanding, so who knows, maybe they were worth the first round pick. Didn't the Raiders win 3 SBs as Guy as their punter?
Yes they did- and Guy is the only punter that deserves induction into the HOF. BUT I'll posit both Guy and Janikowski would have lasted until at least the second round if Davis hadn't taken them in the first. The only other Kickers I can remember getting drafted high are Tom Sladanky (second), Mike Nugent (second), and Martin Grammatica (third).
I have never really understood that....not selecting kickers very high.
If you have a guy who clearly has it....and when you get down to it, kicking in college is harder. Both goal posts are 18' 6" wide. The hash marks in college are 40' while in the pros it is the same as the goal posts.....the college kicker has much harsher angles to adjust for.
The point being, why not spend a high pick on a position that typically can hold the job for a couple of decades???
One high pick every 18 or so years for a quality kicker isn't going to hurt anything.
JMO.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Name one other team who would pay 3.25M for a 36 yr old kicker.
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