We Are The 53%
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Please show me where they are asking for handouts.
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Please show me where they are asking for handouts.
Please show me where they are asking for handouts.
Actually I asked you to tell me what they actually do want.
But in general since about half the population supports the other half that means that the half that don't contribute are getting a handout.
Wanting that split to be even more lopsided would IMO be asking for a bigger handout.
Wanting someone else to pay their student loans is asking for a handout if in fact that's one of the gripes.
And it seems there are dozens of general gripes.
And yes Sev, money rules the world. Here and abroad now and throughout history.
Face the fact that the most fervent defenders of the middle class are among the richest and most powerful in the world.
Faux compassion is extremely profitable.
WSS
WSS[/b]
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Steve, your claim that about half of the country supports the other half of the country that "doesn't contribute" anything is simply not true. Don't get taken by political slogans. That figure is only for the 47% of Americans who pay no federal income tax. That's it. That's hardly the only tax we levy in America. There are state taxes. There are payroll taxes. There are excise taxes. There are sales taxes. There are property taxes. And there are lots of others, too.
And who makes up that 47%? lots of old people, the poor, and lower income people who receive child tax credits.
But even the poorest people in America pay about 13% of their income in taxes. So these people you imagine who "don't contribute" don't exist. You can read all about who pays for what here. I'd point you to the graph on page 24.
Take a look. Even if you make as little as $11,000 in an entire year, you still pay $1400 of it in taxes. If you make $30,000, you pay about $7000 of it in taxes. So you're just wrong. You should admit this.
Also, if people want a return to a more progressive tax code like we used to have, that doesn't mean they're asking for a handout. Certainly the people who would pay more in a more progressive tax code are not asking for a handout, yet you assume everyone who wants to go back to Clinton-era rates is some sort of lazy grifter. You should probably move on from the "welfare queen" rhetoric of the 80s, as well as the ridiculous and lazy "productive versus the moochers" framework you operate from.
Taxes fund all manner of government services. They're not handouts. You can even be for raising taxes simply because you believe in fiscal responsibility and fiscal reality, as many people today do, including many Republicans. This hardly makes them moochers asking for a handout.
Some people think a "fairer tax code" means that everyone pays the same rates. Others, like myself, believe that people who can afford to pay more should ease the burden on those who can't, and that this is more "fair." Herman Cain's tax plan, for instance, would probably meet your definition of "fairness." But what it does is raise in practice is raise taxes for the bottom 80% of American earners, and lower them for the top 20%, and lower them a great deal for people at the very top who get most of the income from investments. Maybe that's "fairer" to you. And in some theoretical abstract, I suppose it is fairer. But in practice, it makes little sense to me. How about you?
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"There is a strong anti-government bent, shared with the older Tea Party movement. There are many grievances: inflation, taxes, unemployment, corporate greed, lobbyists, stagnant wages and, above all, a growing gap between the ultrarich and the rest of us.
Above all, Occupy Wall Street takes aim at the big-money banks and hedge funders seen as responsible for the housing crisis, the ones who were rescued by taxpayers and the Federal Reserve's easy money, and are now profiting from the rebound and hoarding cash instead of making loans and rescuing homeowners."
I pulled that from MSN. It explains Occupy better than I can.
And they are right. I lost my job because the bailed-out banks wouldn't loan money. That's what the bail-outs were for.
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What did you do before you lost your job, if I might ask?
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Civil Engineering Technician. Potential clients couldn't get money for development projects so they didn't need design work done.
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Yup. Sounds pretty typical. Everyone is sitting on cash. Banks aren't loaning it. Businesses aren't investing it. Mostly because consumers aren't spending it. Because they don't have it.
Hope you find something soon.
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Yup. Sounds pretty typical. Everyone is sitting on cash. Banks aren't loaning it. Businesses aren't investing it. Mostly because consumers aren't spending it. Because they don't have it.
Heck
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and if Bush was pres, it would be ALL his fault, and Shep would be here being so "frightened" of our freedoms being squashed by the "evil" Cheney.
But wait ! Obamao and all his rowdy communist and radical socialist friends are in power ! Now? "Silence is golden" "mums the word" "eh.... I don't have time for the forum"
par for the corrupt thinking course.
Even Soros is saying we are headed for, or in, a double dip recession. And that is NOT Bush's fault.
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Yup. Sounds pretty typical. Everyone is sitting on cash. Banks aren't loaning it. Businesses aren't investing it. Mostly because consumers aren't spending it. Because they don't have it.
Hope you find something soon.
Yup. Sounds pretty typical. Everyone is sitting on cash. Banks aren't loaning it. Businesses aren't investing it. Mostly because consumers aren't spending it. Because they don't have it.
Hope you find something soon.
thanks, vicious cycle, it is.
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Yup. Sounds pretty typical. Everyone is sitting on cash. Banks aren't loaning it. Businesses aren't investing it. Mostly because consumers aren't spending it. Because they don't have it.
Hope you find something soon.
thanks, vicious cycle, it is.
thanks, vicious cycle, it is.
Yeah. Sad thing is, there are things that we can do to help, but we're not going to do them. Not in an election year.
No matter what we do, this is here to stay for a while. It's just how much bad we're willing to accept. And apparently, we're going to accept a lot of bad.
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thanks, vicious cycle, it is.
Yeah. Sad thing is, there are things that we can do to help, but we're not going to do them. Not in an election year.
No matter what we do, this is here to stay for a while. It's just how much bad we're willing to accept. And apparently, we're going to accept a lot of bad.
Yeah. Sad thing is, there are things that we can do to help, but we're not going to do them. Not in an election year.
Like what in particular?
(Let me guess....)
WSS
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Flawed reasoning item #452: If these people just wanted to sit (and are currently sitting) on their ass doing nothing, then why even organize and rally for change?
I'm not going to hold my breath awaiting your answer.
Not to mention occupiers are not looking for a handout. They are looking to change the grip that greed and corruption has on our political system.
1% pays for 99% of political campaigns, so who do you think politicians are going to serve? That's right! You guessed it! The 1%.
We the people deserve better. We the people, who work hard to pay off our student loans and pick up jobs below our pay rate to make ends meet, just to be laid-off a year later while in an insane amount of debt deserve better.
I'm guessing by you making this post you believe that the system is not flawed, politicians are not corrupt, and every unemployed person is just too lazy to find a job. If you disagree with the last sentence I typed then stop fighting us and join us because you ARE the 99%.
Not to mention occupiers are not looking for a handout. They are looking to change the grip that greed and corruption has on our political system.
1% pays for 99% of political campaigns, so who do you think politicians are going to serve? That's right! You guessed it! The 1%.
So who's the president?
WSS
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Yeah. Sad thing is, there are things that we can do to help, but we're not going to do them. Not in an election year.
Like what in particular?
(Let me guess....)
WSS
Like what in particular?
(Let me guess....)
WSS
Infrastructure investments are a no brainer. Tax reform is a no brainer. Some aid to the states is a no brainer. Long term debt reduction is a no brainer. But none of this is going to happen. We're just going to sit here and pretend we can't do anything. Or we'll just do something small to say we did.
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The end of the Iraqi conflict is a start.
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Infrastructure investments are a no brainer. Tax reform is a no brainer. Some aid to the states is a no brainer. Long term debt reduction is a no brainer. But none of this is going to happen. We're just going to sit here and pretend we can't do anything. Or we'll just do something small to say we did. Heck
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Nice classy post, Heck.
Now the followup question:
Why didn't the pres you voted for... do anything about any of those during his two years with complete Dem party control of Congress?
Bush had Dems in Congress in charge, too. Could be I'm just having too much work on the farm goin on, but I see a trend. And it isn't pretty.
And...
Who on the national presidential scene, do you think WILL tackle these problems?
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Like what in particular?
(Let me guess....)
WSS
Infrastructure investments are a no brainer. Tax reform is a no brainer. Some aid to the states is a no brainer. Long term debt reduction is a no brainer. But none of this is going to happen. We're just going to sit here and pretend we can't do anything. Or we'll just do something small to say we did.
Infrastructure investments are a no brainer. Tax reform is a no brainer. Some aid to the states is a no brainer. Long term debt reduction is a no brainer. But none of this is going to happen. We're just going to sit here and pretend we can't do anything. Or we'll just do something small to say we did.
Well I guessed right. Pass this bill now.
And I'd say it'd make things look better in the short term.
Like novocaine in an injured knee or sawdust in the transmission.
Hey the bump only needs to last through the second week of November 2012.
WSS
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Infrastructure investments are a no brainer. Tax reform is a no brainer. Some aid to the states is a no brainer. Long term debt reduction is a no brainer. But none of this is going to happen. We're just going to sit here and pretend we can't do anything. Or we'll just do something small to say we did.
Well I guessed right. Pass this bill now.
And I'd say it'd make things look better in the short term.
Like novocaine in an injured knee or sawdust in the transmission.
Hey the bump only needs to last through the second week of November 2012.
WSS
Well I guessed right. Pass this bill now.
And I'd say it'd make things look better in the short term.
Like novocaine in an injured knee or sawdust in the transmission.
Hey the bump only needs to last through the second week of November 2012.
WSS
Yes, Steve. That's part of the point - to make things better in the short term. That's what you're trying to do. In order to help the economy recover faster. That's what Bush did in the last recession, back when Republicans believed in demand-side stimulus. But they're not being political here, only the people who are trying to help the economy recover. Got it.
You like to dismiss all policy as political in order to avoid arguing policy. This is a policy debate. I'm not arguing politics. If you disagree with the policy, you have to say why. And likening it to a novocaine shot doesn't really cut it.
Short term stimulus, long term debt reduction, tax reform. That's the game.
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short term insurmountable? debt wrecking havoc on the value of our dollar, and ruining our credit rating, via stupid political tax money dole outs.
Long term gov growth and intervention into our daily lives.
So much debt, that Obamao won't support legimate tax reform.
Just raise them.
That's his plan - it is what he learned in college in Alinksi classes.
And Cloward-Piven is now being admitted on the left... as having a huge influence
on what is going on.
Told ya. Still deny it ?
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Well I guessed right. Pass this bill now.
And I'd say it'd make things look better in the short term.
Like novocaine in an injured knee or sawdust in the transmission.
Hey the bump only needs to last through the second week of November 2012.
WSS
Yes, Steve. That's part of the point - to make things better in the short term. That's what you're trying to do. In order to help the economy recover faster. That's what Bush did in the last recession, back when Republicans believed in demand-side stimulus. But they're not being political here, only the people who are trying to help the economy recover. Got it.
You like to dismiss all policy as political in order to avoid arguing policy. This is a policy debate. I'm not arguing politics. If you disagree with the policy, you have to say why. And likening it to a novocaine shot doesn't really cut it.
Short term stimulus, long term debt reduction, tax reform. That's the game.
Yes, Steve. That's part of the point - to make things better in the short term. That's what you're trying to do. In order to help the economy recover faster. That's what Bush did in the last recession, back when Republicans believed in demand-side stimulus. But they're not being political here, only the people who are trying to help the economy recover. Got it.
You like to dismiss all policy as political in order to avoid arguing policy. This is a policy debate. I'm not arguing politics. If you disagree with the policy, you have to say why. And likening it to a novocaine shot doesn't really cut it.
Short term stimulus, long term debt reduction, tax reform. That's the game.
Seems like those two things are at odds.
Oh, right! That's because they are.
And of course it's political.
Otherwise your team would have done it two years ago with no hindrance and saved us all.
WSS
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Are you saying that short term stimulus and long term debt reduction are at odds? Really?
If I'm missing your point, please let me know.
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