Broncos Trade To 4?
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Shit, the Giants don't have stars... they have a constellation. You might need something stronger than an over the counter soap to was the choco off your nuts..
Ok, I guess the Giants dont work for you. How about the Packers?? We are going to leave QBs out of this because we cant draft a franchise QB with #4 (unless you reallllly wanna bring up Tannehill) so the conversation is irrelevant. So all the Packer's offensive "stars" (and by stars you are saying high picks which I dont agree with but for the sake of the argument..):
RB Starks 6th round, Grant Undrafted
WR Nelson 2nd round, Jennings 2nd round, J. Jones 3rd round, D. Driver 7th round
TE Finley 3rd round
Quantity does not necessarily outweigh quality, but 5 good players (outside 1st round) greatly outweigh that one "star". Ill trade back and pick up 2nd and 3rd rounders all day long...
Ok, I guess the Giants dont work for you. How about the Packers?? We are going to leave QBs out of this because we cant draft a franchise QB with #4 (unless you reallllly wanna bring up Tannehill)
(the Packers drafte Rodgers at #22, so indeed it can be done)
so the conversation is irrelevant. So all the Packer's offensive "stars" (and by stars you are saying high picks which I dont agree with but for the sake of the argument..):
RB Starks 6th round, Grant Undrafted
WR Nelson 2nd round, Jennings 2nd round, J. Jones 3rd round, D. Driver 7th round
TE Finley 3rd round
Quantity does not necessarily outweigh quality, but 5 good players (outside 1st round) greatly outweigh that one "star". Ill trade back and pick up 2nd and 3rd rounders all day long...
I would not object to that strategy. The weakness of this Browns team is not that they might not have a couple of people capable of being "stars", it is that they have a plethora of holes in their lineup where they do not have quality NFL players filling them. We need to fill all those holes.
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Everyone on the Browns save for Joe Thomas, Alex Mack and Phil Taylor are from outside the first round... Is it a coincidence that those are our best players? We need more first round talen on this team to compete. The Browns have 2 picks in the first round, they should add two big first round names to the above 3.
Everyone on the Browns save for Joe Thomas, Alex Mack and Phil Taylor are from outside the first round... Is it a coincidence that those are our best players? We need more first round talen on this team to compete. The Browns have 2 picks in the first round, they should add two big first round names to the above 3.
Oh, I agree. I definitely don't want to be trading out of the first round with either of our picks. But if in fact the Browns traded down to say 15, and picked up 2 second round picks, I would possibly welcome that scenario to fill those holes at WR/RT/RB/FS/CB/LB. I would welcome it if the Browns had 6 first and 2d round picks.
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Sounds like you've been hanging around with Jed Clampett.
In a round about way, most of my life.
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I think we just let H & H do what they do and if u dont like go root for another team. I will be happy with what ever they do. Even if its not what I woulda done. Nothin is as bad as watching mangina on draft day.....tnat zhit was a phucking joke
I think we just let H & H do what they do and if u dont like go root for another team. I will be happy with what ever they do. Even if its not what I woulda done. Nothin is as bad as watching mangina on draft day.....tnat zhit was a phucking joke
So sitting idly by and accepting whatever this regime does, good move or bad, is fine with you because you like these guys.
But whatever Mangini or (insert name here) did isn't acceptable, because you didn't want us to hire them in the first place.
Got it.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Everyone on the Browns save for Joe Thomas, Alex Mack and Phil Taylor are from outside the first round... Is it a coincidence that those are our best players? We need more first round talen on this team to compete. The Browns have 2 picks in the first round, they should add two big first round names to the above 3.
I'll only look at what Heckert has done and ignore the awful talent evaluator that was Mangini, and the troubled Phil Savage. Id much rather have twice as much 2nd and high 3rd round talent than first round talent (excluding QBs). I believe that would make us a much better team both short and long term. IMO the top 10 is really valuable for QBs, LTs, a #1 CB, and Dline or a cant miss talent such as a Calvin Johnson (mayyyybe Trent is one of those, but I think the positional importance of one RB is very low). No chance at a QB this year, we have the LT and CB, and there is a lack of Dline talent this year. Obviously the best players will go top 10, and you have a better shot at getting for example a better WR in the top 10 than in the second round, but I'd argue that if you could get 2 second rounders by dropping 10 spots in the first round, you do it in a heartbeat this year.
I'll only look at what Heckert has done and ignore the awful talent evaluator that was Mangini,
ok i have agreed with u until this statement. mangini a terrible talent evaluator? GTFO. he set up the jets for years to come learning from belibitch to build from the middle out. mangold a bad pick? how about revis? 2 guys that are def HOFs right now.
what/who did he pick while he was with cleveland? yeah, go back and check. you are wrong on this one cribbs.
BTW. can't we draft claiborn #4 to have him knock WRs and blitz the QB while he also returns Ps and KOs? meanwhile retiring cribbs to the bench where he belongs......unless he starts at QB where he should have been all along?
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ok on the superbowl giants who are the stars? yes eli was coming out of college. a top 5 pick. cruz wasn't drafted. bradshaw (who is a second tier rb at best) was a seventh round pick. hixon was a fourth pick cut by the broncos and picked up off of waivers. the only offensive weapon manning has that was picked in the first round is hakeem nicks who is hardly a first tier receiver.
now on the defensive side kiwanuka, pierre-paul, rolle all first round. umi 2nd. and tuck 3rd.
i'd rather follow the business plan of a winner, most of which address defense first, beefing up lines on both sides of the ball, then looking to find rbs and wrs in the later rounds, than a team like oakland who always goes after the fastest receiver and rb with best college stats.
Shit, the Giants don't have stars... they have a constellation. You might need something stronger than an over the counter soap to was the choco off your nuts..
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Like MoMass, Robiske, Hardesty, Kameron Wimbley, William Green, etc.
Browns suck at picking late 1st/early 2nd. Well, Browns suck in general at drafting. Just saying...
No, like LeSean McCoy and Desean Jackson...
Its not the Browns organization as a whole picking the draft. It is the GM. Hardesty was the only one picked by our GM and while he is likely a "bust", like Gipper said the jury is still out.
No, like LeSean McCoy and Desean Jackson...
Its not the Browns organization as a whole picking the draft. It is the GM. Hardesty was the only one picked by our GM and while he is likely a "bust", like Gipper said the jury is still out.
I didn't know McCoy or Jackson played for the Browns. We don't have anyone near either of their caliber.
Yes, I know Heckert is the "draft genius" but in previous years the Browns regardless of who was choosing picks have drafted like shit.
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No, like LeSean McCoy and Desean Jackson...
Its not the Browns organization as a whole picking the draft. It is the GM. Hardesty was the only one picked by our GM and while he is likely a "bust", like Gipper said the jury is still out.
I didn't know McCoy or Jackson played for the Browns. We don't have anyone near either of their caliber.
Yes, I know Heckert is the "draft genius" but in previous years the Browns regardless of who was choosing picks have drafted like shit.
I didn't know McCoy or Jackson played for the Browns. We don't have anyone near either of their caliber.
Yes, I know Heckert is the "draft genius" but in previous years the Browns regardless of who was choosing picks have drafted like shit.
Minus the last two years. Your not going to win the argument that Heckert is a bad drafter. You will win the argument that the Browns drafting before the past two years was so bad that it set the franchise so far back talent wise that is is almost crippling.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
I'll only look at what Heckert has done and ignore the awful talent evaluator that was Mangini,
ok i have agreed with u until this statement. mangini a terrible talent evaluator? GTFO. he set up the jets for years to come learning from belibitch to build from the middle out. mangold a bad pick? how about revis? 2 guys that are def HOFs right now.
what/who did he pick while he was with cleveland? yeah, go back and check. you are wrong on this one cribbs.
BTW. can't we draft claiborn #4 to have him knock WRs and blitz the QB while he also returns Ps and KOs? meanwhile retiring cribbs to the bench where he belongs......unless he starts at QB where he should have been all along?
ok i have agreed with u until this statement. mangini a terrible talent evaluator? GTFO. he set up the jets for years to come learning from belibitch to build from the middle out. mangold a bad pick? how about revis? 2 guys that are def HOFs right now.
what/who did he pick while he was with cleveland? yeah, go back and check. you are wrong on this one cribbs.
BTW. can't we draft claiborn #4 to have him knock WRs and blitz the QB while he also returns Ps and KOs? meanwhile retiring cribbs to the bench where he belongs......unless he starts at QB where he should have been all along?
The Jets had a GM making those decisions, Mangini did not have final say in Revis or Mangold (I dont believe). he was on his own in Cleveland. What did we get for giving up the #6 pick again for what the Jets though was their franchise QB? I cant really remember but like Abe Elam, the DE Coleman, a backup QB?? Not much and im not sure anyone is still with the team. But its ok cause he bounced back with a great second round with Robiskie, Massaquoi, and Veikune... That is what I am basing my terrible talent evaluator comment on. Maybe I havent done my full research but he certainly screwed us over.
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I didn't know McCoy or Jackson played for the Browns. We don't have anyone near either of their caliber.
Yes, I know Heckert is the "draft genius" but in previous years the Browns regardless of who was choosing picks have drafted like shit.
Minus the last two years. Your not going to win the argument that Heckert is a bad drafter. You will win the argument that the Browns drafting before the past two years was so bad that it set the franchise so far back talent wise that is is almost crippling.
Minus the last two years. Your not going to win the argument that Heckert is a bad drafter. You will win the argument that the Browns drafting before the past two years was so bad that it set the franchise so far back talent wise that is is almost crippling.
Yes, which is why I believe that we need as many "high round" picks as possible. We are just so far behind the talent level of all the other teams even in our division at so many positions. With 22 men starting on offense and defense, the "elite" player doesnt have as much impact in football as it does with a sport like basketball. You actually need a good TEAM to run. And IMO we are still pretty far behind assembling that entire team.
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I'll only look at what Heckert has done and ignore the awful talent evaluator that was Mangini,
ok i have agreed with u until this statement. mangini a terrible talent evaluator? GTFO. he set up the jets for years to come learning from belibitch to build from the middle out. mangold a bad pick? how about revis? 2 guys that are def HOFs right now.
what/who did he pick while he was with cleveland? yeah, go back and check. you are wrong on this one cribbs.
BTW. can't we draft claiborn #4 to have him knock WRs and blitz the QB while he also returns Ps and KOs? meanwhile retiring cribbs to the bench where he belongs......unless he starts at QB where he should have been all along?
ok i have agreed with u until this statement. mangini a terrible talent evaluator? GTFO. he set up the jets for years to come learning from belibitch to build from the middle out. mangold a bad pick? how about revis? 2 guys that are def HOFs right now.
what/who did he pick while he was with cleveland? yeah, go back and check. you are wrong on this one cribbs.
BTW. can't we draft claiborn #4 to have him knock WRs and blitz the QB while he also returns Ps and KOs? meanwhile retiring cribbs to the bench where he belongs......unless he starts at QB where he should have been all along?
Ok I have done the research. We had the #5 pick in the 2009 NFL Draft traded that to the Jets (Sanchez) for their 17th and 52th pick (David Veikune no longer in the league) and Abe Elam, Kenyon Coleman and Brett Ratliff (none of those 3 are still with the team 3 years later).
THEN with the #17 pick, we traded that to Tampa (picked Freeman) for the #19 and a sixth rounder (Coye Francies).
THEN with the #19 pick, we traded that to Philly (picked Jeremy Maclin) for the #21 (Alex Mack) and another 6th rounder (James Davis).
And then he selects Robiskie and Massaquoi in the second round.
If that doesnt make you wanna puke, idk what will. Either Mangini is terrible at trading or is a terrible talent evaluator. Probably both IMO.
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I think we just let H & H do what they do and if u dont like go root for another team. I will be happy with what ever they do. Even if its not what I woulda done. Nothin is as bad as watching mangina on draft day.....tnat zhit was a phucking joke
So sitting idly by and accepting whatever this regime does, good move or bad, is fine with you because you like these guys.
But whatever Mangini or (insert name here) did isn't acceptable, because you didn't want us to hire them in the first place.
Got it.
So sitting idly by and accepting whatever this regime does, good move or bad, is fine with you because you like these guys.
Unless your name is Randy Lerner, the answer is: Yes, you just have to sit idly by and accept whatever this regime does. Oh, you can be a dog howling at the moon. You have about as much chance getting the Browns to move with your howling as the dog has of getting the moon to move.
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ok i have agreed with u until this statement. mangini a terrible talent evaluator? GTFO. he set up the jets for years to come learning from belibitch to build from the middle out. mangold a bad pick? how about revis? 2 guys that are def HOFs right now.
what/who did he pick while he was with cleveland? yeah, go back and check. you are wrong on this one cribbs.
BTW. can't we draft claiborn #4 to have him knock WRs and blitz the QB while he also returns Ps and KOs? meanwhile retiring cribbs to the bench where he belongs......unless he starts at QB where he should have been all along?
Ok I have done the research. We had the #5 pick in the 2009 NFL Draft traded that to the Jets (Sanchez) for their 17th and 52th pick (David Veikune no longer in the league) and Abe Elam, Kenyon Coleman and Brett Ratliff (none of those 3 are still with the team 3 years later).
THEN with the #17 pick, we traded that to Tampa (picked Freeman) for the #19 and a sixth rounder (Coye Francies).
THEN with the #19 pick, we traded that to Philly (picked Jeremy Maclin) for the #21 (Alex Mack) and another 6th rounder (James Davis).
And then he selects Robiskie and Massaquoi in the second round.
If that doesnt make you wanna puke, idk what will. Either Mangini is terrible at trading or is a terrible talent evaluator. Probably both IMO.
Ok I have done the research. We had the #5 pick in the 2009 NFL Draft traded that to the Jets (Sanchez) for their 17th and 52th pick (David Veikune no longer in the league) and Abe Elam, Kenyon Coleman and Brett Ratliff (none of those 3 are still with the team 3 years later).
THEN with the #17 pick, we traded that to Tampa (picked Freeman) for the #19 and a sixth rounder (Coye Francies).
THEN with the #19 pick, we traded that to Philly (picked Jeremy Maclin) for the #21 (Alex Mack) and another 6th rounder (James Davis).
And then he selects Robiskie and Massaquoi in the second round.
If that doesnt make you wanna puke, idk what will. Either Mangini is terrible at trading or is a terrible talent evaluator. Probably both IMO.
Again, I believe that you can't blame Mangini completely for that because the Browns had no GM in place that was supposed to be doing that job. Mangini's job was to coach, not evaluate talent. Wasn't Kokinis supposed to be doing that?
With Kokins gone who was the GM? or the Director of Player Personnell? Who were the talent scouts? Garbage in, garbage out. What kind of garbage was Mangini being fed?
Yes, blame Mangini for eating the garbage....but who was setting the plate?
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Ok I have done the research. We had the #5 pick in the 2009 NFL Draft traded that to the Jets (Sanchez) for their 17th and 52th pick (David Veikune no longer in the league) and Abe Elam, Kenyon Coleman and Brett Ratliff (none of those 3 are still with the team 3 years later).
THEN with the #17 pick, we traded that to Tampa (picked Freeman) for the #19 and a sixth rounder (Coye Francies).
THEN with the #19 pick, we traded that to Philly (picked Jeremy Maclin) for the #21 (Alex Mack) and another 6th rounder (James Davis).
And then he selects Robiskie and Massaquoi in the second round.
If that doesnt make you wanna puke, idk what will. Either Mangini is terrible at trading or is a terrible talent evaluator. Probably both IMO.
Again, I believe that you can't blame Mangini completely for that because the Browns had no GM in place that was supposed to be doing that job. Mangini's job was to coach, not evaluate talent. Wasn't Kokinis supposed to be doing that?
With Kokins gone who was the GM? or the Director of Player Personnell? Who were the talent scouts? Garbage in, garbage out. What kind of garbage was Mangini being fed?
Yes, blame Mangini for eating the garbage....but who was setting the plate?
Again, I believe that you can't blame Mangini completely for that because the Browns had no GM in place that was supposed to be doing that job. Mangini's job was to coach, not evaluate talent. Wasn't Kokinis supposed to be doing that?
With Kokins gone who was the GM? or the Director of Player Personnell? Who were the talent scouts? Garbage in, garbage out. What kind of garbage was Mangini being fed?
Yes, blame Mangini for eating the garbage....but who was setting the plate?
Either way, Mangini was an awful talent evaluator. It may have been a bad situation but he still made the wrong picks. And didnt he push for the signing of Kokinis? Idk what went on behind those closed doors but the sense that I got was that Mangini was power hungry and a control freak and made some very bad decisions against others advice, but that was just the impression I got, could be wrong. Irregardless, Heckert did not make those picks so I wont hold those choices against his track record obviously.
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Again, I believe that you can't blame Mangini completely for that because the Browns had no GM in place that was supposed to be doing that job. Mangini's job was to coach, not evaluate talent. Wasn't Kokinis supposed to be doing that?
With Kokins gone who was the GM? or the Director of Player Personnell? Who were the talent scouts? Garbage in, garbage out. What kind of garbage was Mangini being fed?
Yes, blame Mangini for eating the garbage....but who was setting the plate?
Either way, Mangini was an awful talent evaluator. It may have been a bad situation but he still made the wrong picks. And didnt he push for the signing of Kokinis? Idk what went on behind those closed doors but the sense that I got was that Mangini was power hungry and a control freak and made some very bad decisions against others advice, but that was just the impression I got, could be wrong. Irregardless, Heckert did not make those picks so I wont hold those choices against his track record obviously.
Either way, Mangini was an awful talent evaluator. It may have been a bad situation but he still made the wrong picks. And didnt he push for the signing of Kokinis? Idk what went on behind those closed doors but the sense that I got was that Mangini was power hungry and a control freak and made some very bad decisions against others advice, but that was just the impression I got, could be wrong. Irregardless, Heckert did not make those picks so I wont hold those choices against his track record obviously.
I think you are confusing Mangini with Butch Davis.
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I think we just let H & H do what they do and if u dont like go root for another team. I will be happy with what ever they do. Even if its not what I woulda done. Nothin is as bad as watching mangina on draft day.....tnat zhit was a phucking joke
So sitting idly by and accepting whatever this regime does, good move or bad, is fine with you because you like these guys.
But whatever Mangini or (insert name here) did isn't acceptable, because you didn't want us to hire them in the first place.
Got it.
naaa I just root for the browns...PERIOD! When mangina fell twenty plus first round spots to reach for a center I still cheered.So sitting idly by and accepting whatever this regime does, good move or bad, is fine with you because you like these guys.
But whatever Mangini or (insert name here) did isn't acceptable, because you didn't want us to hire them in the first place.
Got it.
Blackmon, richardson, weeden, or griffen for the farm. Ill root for whom ever they pick.
surprisingly u of all people troll my post. Anyone who knows football has to see this FO has done a much better job with alot more adversity.
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naaa I just root for the browns...PERIOD! When mangina fell twenty plus first round spots to reach for a center I still cheered.So sitting idly by and accepting whatever this regime does, good move or bad, is fine with you because you like these guys.
But whatever Mangini or (insert name here) did isn't acceptable, because you didn't want us to hire them in the first place.
Got it.
Blackmon, richardson, weeden, or griffen for the farm. Ill root for whom ever they pick.
surprisingly u of all people troll my post. Anyone who knows football has to see this FO has done a much better job with alot more adversity.
Anyone who knows football has to see this FO has done a much better job with alot more adversity.
what adversity? the only adversity happened when holmgren just didn't tell the truth from the start that he wanted his own buddies on the coaching staff and not firing mangini upfront instead of letting him be a lame duck coach for a year. sign of a true pussy.
only guy in that building that should garner any brown's fan respect is heckert.
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Anyone who knows football has to see this FO has done a much better job with alot more adversity.
what adversity? the only adversity happened when holmgren just didn't tell the truth from the start that he wanted his own buddies on the coaching staff and not firing mangini upfront instead of letting him be a lame duck coach for a year. sign of a true pussy.
only guy in that building that should garner any brown's fan respect is heckert.
yea cause no one woulda given a hoot about firing a coach after a four game winning streak. No coach woulda taken the position if he'd done that....again just shitty luck for holmgren.what adversity? the only adversity happened when holmgren just didn't tell the truth from the start that he wanted his own buddies on the coaching staff and not firing mangini upfront instead of letting him be a lame duck coach for a year. sign of a true pussy.
only guy in that building that should garner any brown's fan respect is heckert.
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What's Up Browns Faithful?!?!??
I am hearing that the Browns are entertaining offers for fourth overall as well.
It sounds like the Rams (who wouldn't trade us the RGIII pick due to collusion with the Redskins) and the Eagles are trying to trade up, with the target being one of the defensive tackles, either Fletcher Cox or Micahel Brockers - according to rumors being reported on Sportsmasher.
Only problem is it sounds like the Bucs will take 1) Richardson 2) Claiborne at #5 so we would miss out on these guys. We do NOT want to trade all the way back to #15 with the Eagles, unless they are throwing in next year's first rounders.
They have a whole rumors piece up, pretty interesting. Check it out!!!
LINK - Draft Rumors - Sportsmasher
GOOOOOO BROWNS!!!!!!
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What's Up Browns Faithful?!?!??
I am hearing that the Browns are entertaining offers for fourth overall as well.
It sounds like the Rams (who wouldn't trade us the RGIII pick due to collusion with the Redskins) and the Eagles are trying to trade up, with the target being one of the defensive tackles, either Fletcher Cox or Micahel Brockers - according to rumors being reported on Sportsmasher.
Only problem is it sounds like the Bucs will take 1) Richardson 2) Claiborne at #5 so we would miss out on these guys. We do NOT want to trade all the way back to #15 with the Eagles, unless they are throwing in next year's first rounders.
They have a whole rumors piece up, pretty interesting. Check it out!!!
LINK - Draft Rumors - Sportsmasher
GOOOOOO BROWNS!!!!!!
What's Up Browns Faithful?!?!??
I am hearing that the Browns are entertaining offers for fourth overall as well.
It sounds like the Rams (who wouldn't trade us the RGIII pick due to collusion with the Redskins) and the Eagles are trying to trade up, with the target being one of the defensive tackles, either Fletcher Cox or Micahel Brockers - according to rumors being reported on Sportsmasher.
Only problem is it sounds like the Bucs will take 1) Richardson 2) Claiborne at #5 so we would miss out on these guys. We do NOT want to trade all the way back to #15 with the Eagles, unless they are throwing in next year's first rounders.
They have a whole rumors piece up, pretty interesting. Check it out!!!
LINK - Draft Rumors - Sportsmasher
GOOOOOO BROWNS!!!!!!
I hate how you pedal you bullshit site and then cut town. You site is shitty and so are you. At least the live voting Mock guys sticks around for a bit and the Czar of the Playbook actually discusses with us in his thread for a few days.
Ruining threads since 1897.
:lol: 
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