Art Modell
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Ok what are the facts?
Jesus, do I have to recite all the facts surrounding Art Modell's departure here for you?
Not gonna do it.
Go back and read about the last 5 years of my posts, you will find them in their somewhere.
I go back to one of my favorite movie lines, from Casablanca:
Ugati: "You despise me, don't you Rick".
Rick: "If I gave you any thought, I probably would".
I would like to try to not give that guy any thought, any more.
Jesus, do I have to recite all the facts surrounding Art Modell's departure here for you?
Not gonna do it.
Go back and read about the last 5 years of my posts, you will find them in their somewhere.
I go back to one of my favorite movie lines, from Casablanca:
Ugati: "You despise me, don't you Rick".
Rick: "If I gave you any thought, I probably would".
I would like to try to not give that guy any thought, any more.
If the City of Cleveland said, "Art we are going to destroy the mistake by the lake and build you a new stadium" do you think he would have moved the team?
I don't and I don't think most reasonable people do
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Jesus, do I have to recite all the facts surrounding Art Modell's departure here for you?
Not gonna do it.
Go back and read about the last 5 years of my posts, you will find them in their somewhere.
I go back to one of my favorite movie lines, from Casablanca:
Ugati: "You despise me, don't you Rick".
Rick: "If I gave you any thought, I probably would".
I would like to try to not give that guy any thought, any more.
If the City of Cleveland said, "Art we are going to destroy the mistake by the lake and build you a new stadium" do you think he would have moved the team?
I don't and I don't think most reasonable people do
If the City of Cleveland said, "Art we are going to destroy the mistake by the lake and build you a new stadium" do you think he would have moved the team?
The answer is: absolutely YES. See below.
I don't and I don't think most reasonable people do
First off...it wasn't "the city" that controlled the purse strings. It was the county. All of the Gateway money was county money, not city money.
Otherwise, ssentially, that is exactly what the county did say....or a variation of it.
They said....we need to find the way to raise the money to make the renovations on the stadium that you...Mr. Art Modell....have asked us to make. We will put an extension of the sin tax on the ballot and raise your money that way. (did you think the money grew on trees?)
And that is exactly what happened. The measure passed that would have financed exactly what Modell had proposed. Remember, the renovation proposal was HIS idea, not the county/city's.
But he decided to take the turnkey offer that Baltimore made him....why? Because it contained a provision...a bribe really...that said "we will pay YOU directly 75 million dollars" (or whatever the figure was). The county/city sin tax extension renovated the stadium...but didn't put cash in his pocket. He wanted that cash...NOW.
That is what it all came down to for him. Not a new/renovated stadium...but an immediate cash payment made personally to him as an inducement to relocate.
He wanted/needed that money to get out of debt that he had irresponsibly saddled himself with.
When he said "I have no choice" he really meant "If I want to maintain ownership of an NFL team...and not have to sell it to someone else (like Al Lerner) to pay off my debt, and not have it foreclosed on by the banks I owe money to, I have to take Baltimore's cash inducement.
The key is: he could have avoided foreclosure by selling it to AL. He could have made a profit from that sale. But, he could NOT retain the ego massage of being an NFL owner if he did that. He could not maintain the team in his family after he died if he did that. THAT was the everloving MOST important thing to him. That is why he took the inducement to move.
Did you really not know these facts?
Now....another perspective:
Having announced that he was going to move.....I don't think he ever could foresee the firestorm that that attempt would bring upon him and his family.
The lawsuits, the bitterness toward him from here (and elsewhere), probably death threats, etc. all overwhelmed him.....but worse was the fact that when he moved to Baltimore, after he took their money, after all the bullshit that happened he realized two things:
A. Taking that money and moving STILL did not solve his financial problems. Within two years the banks were hounding him for repayment and still threatening foreclosure on his "asset" that secured his loans...which were never paid off even after all the "bribe" money....and even with the revenue streams from the new Baltimore Stadium. He realized "I still can't make it".
B. He realized that David didn't need or want the ownership to boost his ego as he did. Davis like to play at ownership...the superficial part....glad handing, going to parties, etc. but he didn't want to run an NFL team.
With all that he went through...and with this new perspective about his finances and his son's lack of interest in the team ...and with the rest of the league owners telling him "you can no longer be a part of our club" he probably said finally "Fuck it" Sell it. "I'm 70 some years old, get me out of this racket". So he took the Biscottie money, allowing a few years of transition so that he could bow out somewhat gracefully.
Did I answer your question? Yes, he would have "moved" regardless.
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The version that I've read was the Gateway money was County but he turned it down thinking that he wouldn't lose as much revenue as he did when the Indians moved. After losing millions when the Indians relocated he then went to the City and asked for $100 million plus to renovate. Then Baltimore offered him a new stadium and he bolted. I can't find this "inducement" payment that you're talking about.
I did find this article where he chipped in $24 million of his own money to fund the stadium.
I did find this
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/when_art_modell_moved_his_clev.html
But the $75 million was in part a training facility and for other team expenses, that doesn't suggest it was his to do with as he pleased.
I guess if my options were to have a renovated Cleveland Municipal Stadium or a brand spanking new $200 million facility, I'd choose the later. I've never read that the City or County was willing to build a new stadium that's why I don't hold the move against him. Even if I believed the worst I still wouldn't be upset at a business owner taking more money, cause that's what they do.
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man you can't argue with these bitter old fucks. let them carry their hate.
be smart and let it go. god knows these guys never will.
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one of the worst reads ever.
i know this hits clevelanders a lot harder than those fans living outside the region so i've made an effort as to stand back a little as far as my comments go just because i wasn't there. that being said yes he was on one hand the biggest scumbage in cleveland history. but on the other hand he was one of the best owners the franchise has ever seen. didn't we see a championship under his reign? didn't we have the sipe and cardiac kids? the kosar era? if not for a couple of bungled plays we could have easily been in 3 super bowls. then there is what he did for football outside of cleveland.
watching it from afar, seeing everything unfold via news articles and national sports tv, i truly put more blame on the city of cleveland and their city council and especially the mayor, who when he spoke was basically drawing a line in the sand. "wouldn't give in". "not be hussled" and then after weeks and months of hearing this and not getting what he needed modell was on tv saying "i'm not going to sit here and beg and plead like a little child for what i think this team deserves" kinda told me the team was gone.
yes he does deserve the HOF. he did then and does now. if anyone should've been burned in effigy it should've benn mayor blackie white.
btw. it's not just the browns doing a moment of silence for modell it's every team in the league. i'm sure goodell was a teeneager in the nfl offices running errands for the big boys while rozell and tagliabu were still at the helm so he must have seen modell many times in those offices. i'm sure he has first hand knowledge of what modell did for this league. that's why the moment of silence is being done league wide.
If he deserves the HOF, then at the same time they put him in they must also induct Robert Irsay, Georgia Frontiere, Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams and others.....because that is the company he keeps.
If he deserves the HOF, then at the same time they put him in they must also induct Robert Irsay, Georgia Frontiere, Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams and others.....because that is the company he keeps.
Except possibly Bud Adams, the others don't deserve it. They were owners. Art was a mover(no pun intended)and shaker.
Let me ask you this Gip....you are a fair guy. Had Modell not moved the team, should he be in the HOF??
We both know the answer, so don't try to sidestep it. Modell did much to shape the NFL. Moving the team doesn't diminish his efforts and accomplishments.
Remember, fair and impartial.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
man you can't argue with these bitter old fucks. let them carry their hate.
be smart and let it go. god knows these guys never will.
man you can't argue with these bitter old fucks. let them carry their hate.
be smart and let it go. god knows these guys never will.
There's a difference between forgetting someone and being forced to respect something you don't. You better believe that I was livid that this was expected of us. That being said. I'm ready to speak no more of the guy.
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If he deserves the HOF, then at the same time they put him in they must also induct Robert Irsay, Georgia Frontiere, Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams and others.....because that is the company he keeps.
Except possibly Bud Adams, the others don't deserve it. They were owners. Art was a mover(no pun intended)and shaker.
Let me ask you this Gip....you are a fair guy. Had Modell not moved the team, should he be in the HOF??
We both know the answer, so don't try to sidestep it. Modell did much to shape the NFL. Moving the team doesn't diminish his efforts and accomplishments.
Remember, fair and impartial.
Except possibly Bud Adams, the others don't deserve it. They were owners. Art was a mover(no pun intended)and shaker.
Let me ask you this Gip....you are a fair guy. Had Modell not moved the team, should he be in the HOF??
We both know the answer, so don't try to sidestep it. Modell did much to shape the NFL. Moving the team doesn't diminish his efforts and accomplishments.
Remember, fair and impartial.
Art certainly helped the NFL become wealthy & powerful, so the owners probably would be in favor of him in the HOF.
What was the Browns' record under his ownership after he fired Paul Brown? One could argue that the team went BACKWARDS under his ownership, with some outstanding seasons here & there (except a pretty good run in the mid-late 80s).
As much as I love the Browns, the truth hurts...Art failed as an owner here.
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Football is an emotional game. Baltimore Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis is one of the game's most emotional and intimidating players. So when you see this menacing force of a man fighting back tears before a game, you take notice.
There are things that transcend football and remind us all that it's just a game, and this was one of the those moments.
Art Modell, the man largely responsible for bringing football back to Baltimore and building a championship team in a winning-deprived city, died less than a week ago. The Ravens honored Modell with a moment of silence before the national anthem in Monday night's game against the Cincinnati Bengals.
As the M&T Bank Stadium crowd grew quiet, Lewis said a prayer and then looked to the heavens, his eyes filling up with water for a man he loved. Lewis considered Modell a father figure in his life, and was with the former Ravens owner in his final hours. The loss hit Lewis hard.
"When you think about Art Modell, you think about a great man, a leader, a father and a servant. Every minute of his life, he cared more about everyone around him than himself. Anytime I saw him, he would always make me smile. He always had a joke to lighten your mood or some sort of wisdom to impart to make you a better man. I genuinely loved Art as a man, and he showed me what to strive for in life. When you truly see the impact he had on everyone he touched, it humbles you. When I found out he wasn't doing well, I knew immediately I had to see him. When I was with him yesterday, I prayed with him and shared with him things that a son would say to a father. Even though he has left us, he is going to a place that one day we all want to be. I am truly blessed to have had Art in my life. He was a humble servant, and one of the best men I have ever known."Without Modell moving the team from Cleveland to Baltimore in 1996, Lewis doesn't win Super Bowl XXXV 34-7 over the New York Giants at the end of the 2000 season.
Remember, it was Modell who stuck by Lewis during his darkest moments. As Lewis fought charges of two counts of malicious murder, two counts of felonious murder, and two counts of assault with a deadly weapon before the 2000 season, Modell stood behind him. Even after the All-Pro linebacker pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor of obstruction of justice, he was welcomed back to the team with open arms. Perhaps other owners would've cut Lewis loose and dumped him from the team and how different Lewis' life might have been. Not Modell.
While the former owner will forever be seen as a pariah in Cleveland, he will be equally loved in Baltimore. None more than by Lewis.
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The version that I've read was the Gateway money was County but he turned it down thinking that he wouldn't lose as much revenue as he did when the Indians moved. After losing millions when the Indians relocated he then went to the City and asked for $100 million plus to renovate. Then Baltimore offered him a new stadium and he bolted. I can't find this "inducement" payment that you're talking about.
I did find this article where he chipped in $24 million of his own money to fund the stadium.
I did find this
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/when_art_modell_moved_his_clev.html
But the $75 million was in part a training facility and for other team expenses, that doesn't suggest it was his to do with as he pleased.
I guess if my options were to have a renovated Cleveland Municipal Stadium or a brand spanking new $200 million facility, I'd choose the later. I've never read that the City or County was willing to build a new stadium that's why I don't hold the move against him. Even if I believed the worst I still wouldn't be upset at a business owner taking more money, cause that's what they do.
The version that I've read was the Gateway money was County but he turned it down thinking that he wouldn't lose as much revenue as he did when the Indians moved. After losing millions when the Indians relocated he then went to the City and asked for $100 million plus to renovate. Then Baltimore offered him a new stadium and he bolted. I can't find this "inducement" payment that you're talking about.
I did find this article where he chipped in $24 million of his own money to fund the stadium.
I did find this
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/when_art_modell_moved_his_clev.html
But the $75 million was in part a training facility and for other team expenses, that doesn't suggest it was his to do with as he pleased.
I guess if my options were to have a renovated Cleveland Municipal Stadium or a brand spanking new $200 million facility, I'd choose the later. I've never read that the City or County was willing to build a new stadium that's why I don't hold the move against him. Even if I believed the worst I still wouldn't be upset at a business owner taking more money, cause that's what they do.
You must not have been alive then or something. Otherwise I don't know how you could not know the facts that I have outlined.
The $75 million WAS an inducement. He WAS free to do with it as he pleased. Maybe he used some for training facility expense. He probably used a lot of it to buy out Bo Gries who still owned 43% of the his business.
The city/county was willing to do what Art asked it to do. Art never asked for a new stadium. The renovated stadium was his idea (patterned on Jacksonville's renovation of the Gator Bowl).
You can be forgiving all you want. If someone rapes your wife you can forgive them just as readily.
An NFL team is not like an ordinary business. It is a public trust. So you can't just buy and sell and move it around.
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If he deserves the HOF, then at the same time they put him in they must also induct Robert Irsay, Georgia Frontiere, Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams and others.....because that is the company he keeps.
Except possibly Bud Adams, the others don't deserve it. They were owners. Art was a mover(no pun intended)and shaker.
Let me ask you this Gip....you are a fair guy. Had Modell not moved the team, should he be in the HOF??
We both know the answer, so don't try to sidestep it. Modell did much to shape the NFL. Moving the team doesn't diminish his efforts and accomplishments.
Remember, fair and impartial.
Except possibly Bud Adams, the others don't deserve it. They were owners. Art was a mover(no pun intended)and shaker.
Let me ask you this Gip....you are a fair guy. Had Modell not moved the team, should he be in the HOF??
Marginal at best. If everything was peachy keen with him, we here may have advocated for him to be in the HOF....because we support our team. The rest of the country may not have seen it that way however.
Its like, right now, I perhaps think that several Browns players should be in the HOF, like Dick Shafrath or Dub Jones or Michael Dean Perry or Jerry Sherk. That doesn't mean the country at large agree with me. I think Modell would have been in that range.
But, of course, we can't divorce Modell from his history of "the move" or from him being removed from ownership, can we?
We both know the answer, so don't try to sidestep it. Modell did much to shape the NFL. Moving the team doesn't diminish his efforts and accomplishments.
Of course it absolutely does. Again, its like saying that Jerry Sandusky being a pedophile doesn't diminish his efforts as an outstanding college defensive coordinator. Of course it does. Perhaps a more extreme example...but analogous nevertheless.
Remember, fair and impartial.
I think I always am. WE put more time and effort into thinking about ABM being HOF material..or not.. because we are so close to the situation. People in 30 other NFL markets don't give him a thought...i.e. his name would probably not come up if they were asked for their top 300 candidates for the HOF. He is Mr. Ugati to them..
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Formerly Sane said:
Source please
Every news and sports information source on planet earth...or maybe just the USA.
USA Today...how's that.
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Formerly Sane said:
Then you shouldn't have any trouble producing something right?
Then you shouldn't have any problem finding it on your own if it is that important to you.
I know about it, I have read it innumerable times in innumerable places.
It is as commonly known as the fact that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
Do you want a source on that too? Go look outside.
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count me as one among those here who think we should just let this go, and not feed the hate machine that is all things Modell. The family requests that we dont offer any memorials today
for the fear (Im sure) of the negative reaction.. CMON is that how we want to be thought of? well its too late... we will be seen as classless bunch because we havent learned to move on... sheesh
SO yes we had our hearts ripped out with the move... Show a BIGGER heart to prove that we are
over it and give the man the respect as a guy like the rest of us who loved football.
I really can't stand this "Be the bigger man" mentality. Yeah, your feelings are hurt, "just rise above it. Just pretend it doesn't hurt. It'll just go away."
Bottling your emotion isn't healthy. Being pressured by the NFL to pay respects to a guy who screwed us is something I find completely demeaning and disrespectful to myself and the city. It's a false show of emotion, and it just goes to show you that the NFL and ESPN care more about political correctness than, you know, being honest. The national media would have made us out to be assholes like they always do (remember the kid getting tackled, remember people burning lebron jerseys?). To hell with being the bigger man and to hell with the national media. I don't have to respect the guy because he's dead, now. Pretending that you have respect for someone you don't is NOT a healthy way of dealing with your pent up anger.
I really can't stand this "Be the bigger man" mentality. Yeah, your feelings are hurt, "just rise above it. Just pretend it doesn't hurt. It'll just go away."
Bottling your emotion isn't healthy. Being pressured by the NFL to pay respects to a guy who screwed us is something I find completely demeaning and disrespectful to myself and the city. It's a false show of emotion, and it just goes to show you that the NFL and ESPN care more about political correctness than, you know, being honest. The national media would have made us out to be assholes like they always do (remember the kid getting tackled, remember people burning lebron jerseys?). To hell with being the bigger man and to hell with the national media. I don't have to respect the guy because he's dead, now. Pretending that you have respect for someone you don't is NOT a healthy way of dealing with your pent up anger.
Seriously, Cleveland should have "honored" Modell with a moment of booing? So touching that pregame tribute to ART on MNF. NOT. So go toss Bob Irsay's photo up on the Jumbotron in Baltimore, and see the kind of reaction you get. I'll honor Modell when Baltimore honors Irsay. Simple as that.
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Formerly Sane said:
Just as I thought, you made it up.
I gave you a source, the USA Today....or try the Baltimore Sun, the New York Times, NFL.com, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Wall Street Journal...and every other paper or sports new information source in the country.
Try Google.
It is common knowledge. The fact that you don't know it proves either that you are 12 years old or that you never watched football for the past 20 years.
Based on some of your replies to other matters I am beginning to think you haven't paid any attention at all.
Not that you should pay any attention to the annals of Art Modell. Just don't question others who have when they give you the facts.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
HE drafted Jim Brown, Greg Pruitt, Gary Collins, Warfield, Kosar, sipe and Eric Turner to mention a few. He was a hell of a lot better than Ass hat Mike Brown
He didn't draft Jim Brown.
Zombo
--but he had a lot to do with his retirement.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
HE drafted Jim Brown, Greg Pruitt, Gary Collins, Warfield, Kosar, sipe and Eric Turner to mention a few. He was a hell of a lot better than Ass hat Mike Brown
He didn't draft JB. JB was here before Modell. Drafted 1957. Modell didn't buy til 1960 And I don't think under any circumstances Art made any of the decisions on the draft choices. Sipe was a 17th rounder. Art was probably asleep when that choice was made. I know that Ernie Accorsi was responsible for the Kosar acquisition...maybe a few others.
I also suspect the Browns had some kind of GM in place that made most of those choices.
I mean, if you want to give him credit for the good, then you have to give him credit for the bad, like Steve Holden, Mike Junkin, Clifford Charlton, Craig Powell, Willis Adams, etc. etc. etc.
More busts perhaps than hits.
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Formerly Sane said:
Just as I thought, you made it up.
I actually found a couple of articles, posted above but none stated that he pocketed $75 million.
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hell with schmodell. Literally. Close the thread already?
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Gipper I can't find any source that claims he was drubbed out of the NFL by the other owners. For what its worth. Why would the NFL mandate all thirty two teams do a tribute to a guy they ran out of the league?
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
The version that I've read was the Gateway money was County but he turned it down thinking that he wouldn't lose as much revenue as he did when the Indians moved. After losing millions when the Indians relocated he then went to the City and asked for $100 million plus to renovate. Then Baltimore offered him a new stadium and he bolted. I can't find this "inducement" payment that you're talking about.
I did find this article where he chipped in $24 million of his own money to fund the stadium.
I did find this
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/when_art_modell_moved_his_clev.html
But the $75 million was in part a training facility and for other team expenses, that doesn't suggest it was his to do with as he pleased.
I guess if my options were to have a renovated Cleveland Municipal Stadium or a brand spanking new $200 million facility, I'd choose the later. I've never read that the City or County was willing to build a new stadium that's why I don't hold the move against him. Even if I believed the worst I still wouldn't be upset at a business owner taking more money, cause that's what they do.
The version that I've read was the Gateway money was County but he turned it down thinking that he wouldn't lose as much revenue as he did when the Indians moved. After losing millions when the Indians relocated he then went to the City and asked for $100 million plus to renovate. Then Baltimore offered him a new stadium and he bolted.
That is sort of correct.
If you'd like to learn about this topic, then a must read is: Fumble! The Browns, Modell and the Move An Insider's Story. The book was written by Michael Poplar who was the Vice President/Treasurer of the Cleveland Stadium Corporation from 1975 to 1996. It is a 330 page fact based book that walks through much of the history of Modell's contributions to the city and his screw-ups. Regarding the stadium renovation, the politics at that time simply wasn't going to let that happen until Modell was bled dry.
Here is a small excerpt:
One proposal to raise money for the renovation was to extend the sin tax. The term of the original sin tax, passed to raise $117 million for Gateway, was for 15 years, 1990 to 2005. The new suggestion was to extend the tax beyond 2006 to raise whatever amount was needed. A serious question was raised, however: If the money wouldn't be received until 2006, how would the contractors be paid during their work period from 1997-1999. The answer? A loan from the State of Ohio.
A senior vice-president from McDonald & Co. said that financing this way would lead to a problem. The county could end up paying so much interest that less than $30 million would be available to pay construction costs out of a $100 million bond issue. "Because of the delayed revenue stream, resulting in a diminished revenue stream, the sin tax extension is not an efficient way to raise the amount of dollars that is involved here," he advised the mayor's task force. The city, however, did not heed this advice but announced it would place the extension on the November 7, 1995 ballot.
The sin tax extension was a mirage, an illusion. It was nothing more than political posturing. By the way, at the time the county was also trying to solve the problem of Gateway going $28 million over budget. Also by the way, renovation estimates at the time grew from $154 million to $172 million.
Get the book.
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