Art Modell
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The version that I've read was the Gateway money was County but he turned it down thinking that he wouldn't lose as much revenue as he did when the Indians moved. After losing millions when the Indians relocated he then went to the City and asked for $100 million plus to renovate. Then Baltimore offered him a new stadium and he bolted. I can't find this "inducement" payment that you're talking about.
I did find this article where he chipped in $24 million of his own money to fund the stadium.
I did find this
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/when_art_modell_moved_his_clev.html
But the $75 million was in part a training facility and for other team expenses, that doesn't suggest it was his to do with as he pleased.
I guess if my options were to have a renovated Cleveland Municipal Stadium or a brand spanking new $200 million facility, I'd choose the later. I've never read that the City or County was willing to build a new stadium that's why I don't hold the move against him. Even if I believed the worst I still wouldn't be upset at a business owner taking more money, cause that's what they do.
The version that I've read was the Gateway money was County but he turned it down thinking that he wouldn't lose as much revenue as he did when the Indians moved. After losing millions when the Indians relocated he then went to the City and asked for $100 million plus to renovate. Then Baltimore offered him a new stadium and he bolted. I can't find this "inducement" payment that you're talking about.
I did find this article where he chipped in $24 million of his own money to fund the stadium.
I did find this
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/when_art_modell_moved_his_clev.html
But the $75 million was in part a training facility and for other team expenses, that doesn't suggest it was his to do with as he pleased.
I guess if my options were to have a renovated Cleveland Municipal Stadium or a brand spanking new $200 million facility, I'd choose the later. I've never read that the City or County was willing to build a new stadium that's why I don't hold the move against him. Even if I believed the worst I still wouldn't be upset at a business owner taking more money, cause that's what they do.
You must not have been alive then or something. Otherwise I don't know how you could not know the facts that I have outlined.
The $75 million WAS an inducement. He WAS free to do with it as he pleased. Maybe he used some for training facility expense. He probably used a lot of it to buy out Bo Gries who still owned 43% of the his business.
The city/county was willing to do what Art asked it to do. Art never asked for a new stadium. The renovated stadium was his idea (patterned on Jacksonville's renovation of the Gator Bowl).
You can be forgiving all you want. If someone rapes your wife you can forgive them just as readily.
An NFL team is not like an ordinary business. It is a public trust. So you can't just buy and sell and move it around.
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If he deserves the HOF, then at the same time they put him in they must also induct Robert Irsay, Georgia Frontiere, Bill Bidwill, Bud Adams and others.....because that is the company he keeps.
Except possibly Bud Adams, the others don't deserve it. They were owners. Art was a mover(no pun intended)and shaker.
Let me ask you this Gip....you are a fair guy. Had Modell not moved the team, should he be in the HOF??
We both know the answer, so don't try to sidestep it. Modell did much to shape the NFL. Moving the team doesn't diminish his efforts and accomplishments.
Remember, fair and impartial.
Except possibly Bud Adams, the others don't deserve it. They were owners. Art was a mover(no pun intended)and shaker.
Let me ask you this Gip....you are a fair guy. Had Modell not moved the team, should he be in the HOF??
Marginal at best. If everything was peachy keen with him, we here may have advocated for him to be in the HOF....because we support our team. The rest of the country may not have seen it that way however.
Its like, right now, I perhaps think that several Browns players should be in the HOF, like Dick Shafrath or Dub Jones or Michael Dean Perry or Jerry Sherk. That doesn't mean the country at large agree with me. I think Modell would have been in that range.
But, of course, we can't divorce Modell from his history of "the move" or from him being removed from ownership, can we?
We both know the answer, so don't try to sidestep it. Modell did much to shape the NFL. Moving the team doesn't diminish his efforts and accomplishments.
Of course it absolutely does. Again, its like saying that Jerry Sandusky being a pedophile doesn't diminish his efforts as an outstanding college defensive coordinator. Of course it does. Perhaps a more extreme example...but analogous nevertheless.
Remember, fair and impartial.
I think I always am. WE put more time and effort into thinking about ABM being HOF material..or not.. because we are so close to the situation. People in 30 other NFL markets don't give him a thought...i.e. his name would probably not come up if they were asked for their top 300 candidates for the HOF. He is Mr. Ugati to them..
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Formerly Sane said:
Source please
Every news and sports information source on planet earth...or maybe just the USA.
USA Today...how's that.
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Formerly Sane said:
Then you shouldn't have any trouble producing something right?
Then you shouldn't have any problem finding it on your own if it is that important to you.
I know about it, I have read it innumerable times in innumerable places.
It is as commonly known as the fact that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.
Do you want a source on that too? Go look outside.
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count me as one among those here who think we should just let this go, and not feed the hate machine that is all things Modell. The family requests that we dont offer any memorials today
for the fear (Im sure) of the negative reaction.. CMON is that how we want to be thought of? well its too late... we will be seen as classless bunch because we havent learned to move on... sheesh
SO yes we had our hearts ripped out with the move... Show a BIGGER heart to prove that we are
over it and give the man the respect as a guy like the rest of us who loved football.
I really can't stand this "Be the bigger man" mentality. Yeah, your feelings are hurt, "just rise above it. Just pretend it doesn't hurt. It'll just go away."
Bottling your emotion isn't healthy. Being pressured by the NFL to pay respects to a guy who screwed us is something I find completely demeaning and disrespectful to myself and the city. It's a false show of emotion, and it just goes to show you that the NFL and ESPN care more about political correctness than, you know, being honest. The national media would have made us out to be assholes like they always do (remember the kid getting tackled, remember people burning lebron jerseys?). To hell with being the bigger man and to hell with the national media. I don't have to respect the guy because he's dead, now. Pretending that you have respect for someone you don't is NOT a healthy way of dealing with your pent up anger.
I really can't stand this "Be the bigger man" mentality. Yeah, your feelings are hurt, "just rise above it. Just pretend it doesn't hurt. It'll just go away."
Bottling your emotion isn't healthy. Being pressured by the NFL to pay respects to a guy who screwed us is something I find completely demeaning and disrespectful to myself and the city. It's a false show of emotion, and it just goes to show you that the NFL and ESPN care more about political correctness than, you know, being honest. The national media would have made us out to be assholes like they always do (remember the kid getting tackled, remember people burning lebron jerseys?). To hell with being the bigger man and to hell with the national media. I don't have to respect the guy because he's dead, now. Pretending that you have respect for someone you don't is NOT a healthy way of dealing with your pent up anger.
Seriously, Cleveland should have "honored" Modell with a moment of booing? So touching that pregame tribute to ART on MNF. NOT. So go toss Bob Irsay's photo up on the Jumbotron in Baltimore, and see the kind of reaction you get. I'll honor Modell when Baltimore honors Irsay. Simple as that.
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Formerly Sane said:
Just as I thought, you made it up.
I gave you a source, the USA Today....or try the Baltimore Sun, the New York Times, NFL.com, Cleveland Plain Dealer, Wall Street Journal...and every other paper or sports new information source in the country.
Try Google.
It is common knowledge. The fact that you don't know it proves either that you are 12 years old or that you never watched football for the past 20 years.
Based on some of your replies to other matters I am beginning to think you haven't paid any attention at all.
Not that you should pay any attention to the annals of Art Modell. Just don't question others who have when they give you the facts.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
HE drafted Jim Brown, Greg Pruitt, Gary Collins, Warfield, Kosar, sipe and Eric Turner to mention a few. He was a hell of a lot better than Ass hat Mike Brown
He didn't draft Jim Brown.
Zombo
--but he had a lot to do with his retirement.
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@king-ghoolie-lives said:
HE drafted Jim Brown, Greg Pruitt, Gary Collins, Warfield, Kosar, sipe and Eric Turner to mention a few. He was a hell of a lot better than Ass hat Mike Brown
He didn't draft JB. JB was here before Modell. Drafted 1957. Modell didn't buy til 1960 And I don't think under any circumstances Art made any of the decisions on the draft choices. Sipe was a 17th rounder. Art was probably asleep when that choice was made. I know that Ernie Accorsi was responsible for the Kosar acquisition...maybe a few others.
I also suspect the Browns had some kind of GM in place that made most of those choices.
I mean, if you want to give him credit for the good, then you have to give him credit for the bad, like Steve Holden, Mike Junkin, Clifford Charlton, Craig Powell, Willis Adams, etc. etc. etc.
More busts perhaps than hits.
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Formerly Sane said:
Just as I thought, you made it up.
I actually found a couple of articles, posted above but none stated that he pocketed $75 million.
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hell with schmodell. Literally. Close the thread already?
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Gipper I can't find any source that claims he was drubbed out of the NFL by the other owners. For what its worth. Why would the NFL mandate all thirty two teams do a tribute to a guy they ran out of the league?
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
The version that I've read was the Gateway money was County but he turned it down thinking that he wouldn't lose as much revenue as he did when the Indians moved. After losing millions when the Indians relocated he then went to the City and asked for $100 million plus to renovate. Then Baltimore offered him a new stadium and he bolted. I can't find this "inducement" payment that you're talking about.
I did find this article where he chipped in $24 million of his own money to fund the stadium.
I did find this
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2012/09/when_art_modell_moved_his_clev.html
But the $75 million was in part a training facility and for other team expenses, that doesn't suggest it was his to do with as he pleased.
I guess if my options were to have a renovated Cleveland Municipal Stadium or a brand spanking new $200 million facility, I'd choose the later. I've never read that the City or County was willing to build a new stadium that's why I don't hold the move against him. Even if I believed the worst I still wouldn't be upset at a business owner taking more money, cause that's what they do.
The version that I've read was the Gateway money was County but he turned it down thinking that he wouldn't lose as much revenue as he did when the Indians moved. After losing millions when the Indians relocated he then went to the City and asked for $100 million plus to renovate. Then Baltimore offered him a new stadium and he bolted.
That is sort of correct.
If you'd like to learn about this topic, then a must read is: Fumble! The Browns, Modell and the Move An Insider's Story. The book was written by Michael Poplar who was the Vice President/Treasurer of the Cleveland Stadium Corporation from 1975 to 1996. It is a 330 page fact based book that walks through much of the history of Modell's contributions to the city and his screw-ups. Regarding the stadium renovation, the politics at that time simply wasn't going to let that happen until Modell was bled dry.
Here is a small excerpt:
One proposal to raise money for the renovation was to extend the sin tax. The term of the original sin tax, passed to raise $117 million for Gateway, was for 15 years, 1990 to 2005. The new suggestion was to extend the tax beyond 2006 to raise whatever amount was needed. A serious question was raised, however: If the money wouldn't be received until 2006, how would the contractors be paid during their work period from 1997-1999. The answer? A loan from the State of Ohio.
A senior vice-president from McDonald & Co. said that financing this way would lead to a problem. The county could end up paying so much interest that less than $30 million would be available to pay construction costs out of a $100 million bond issue. "Because of the delayed revenue stream, resulting in a diminished revenue stream, the sin tax extension is not an efficient way to raise the amount of dollars that is involved here," he advised the mayor's task force. The city, however, did not heed this advice but announced it would place the extension on the November 7, 1995 ballot.
The sin tax extension was a mirage, an illusion. It was nothing more than political posturing. By the way, at the time the county was also trying to solve the problem of Gateway going $28 million over budget. Also by the way, renovation estimates at the time grew from $154 million to $172 million.
Get the book.
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Gipper I can't find any source that claims he was drubbed out of the NFL by the other owners. For what its worth. Why would the NFL mandate all thirty two teams do a tribute to a guy they ran out of the league?
Gipper I can't find any source that claims he was drubbed out of the NFL by the other owners. For what its worth. Why would the NFL mandate all thirty two teams do a tribute to a guy they ran out of the league?
I don't know where he heard he was kicked out of NFL. Never happened.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
The version that I've read was the Gateway money was County but he turned it down thinking that he wouldn't lose as much revenue as he did when the Indians moved. After losing millions when the Indians relocated he then went to the City and asked for $100 million plus to renovate. Then Baltimore offered him a new stadium and he bolted.
That is sort of correct.
If you'd like to learn about this topic, then a must read is: Fumble! The Browns, Modell and the Move An Insider's Story. The book was written by Michael Poplar who was the Vice President/Treasurer of the Cleveland Stadium Corporation from 1975 to 1996. It is a 330 page fact based book that walks through much of the history of Modell's contributions to the city and his screw-ups. Regarding the stadium renovation, the politics at that time simply wasn't going to let that happen until Modell was bled dry.
Here is a small excerpt:
One proposal to raise money for the renovation was to extend the sin tax. The term of the original sin tax, passed to raise $117 million for Gateway, was for 15 years, 1990 to 2005. The new suggestion was to extend the tax beyond 2006 to raise whatever amount was needed. A serious question was raised, however: If the money wouldn't be received until 2006, how would the contractors be paid during their work period from 1997-1999. The answer? A loan from the State of Ohio.
A senior vice-president from McDonald & Co. said that financing this way would lead to a problem. The county could end up paying so much interest that less than $30 million would be available to pay construction costs out of a $100 million bond issue. "Because of the delayed revenue stream, resulting in a diminished revenue stream, the sin tax extension is not an efficient way to raise the amount of dollars that is involved here," he advised the mayor's task force. The city, however, did not heed this advice but announced it would place the extension on the November 7, 1995 ballot.
The sin tax extension was a mirage, an illusion. It was nothing more than political posturing. By the way, at the time the county was also trying to solve the problem of Gateway going $28 million over budget. Also by the way, renovation estimates at the time grew from $154 million to $172 million.
Get the book.
That is sort of correct.
If you'd like to learn about this topic, then a must read is: Fumble! The Browns, Modell and the Move An Insider's Story. The book was written by Michael Poplar who was the Vice President/Treasurer of the Cleveland Stadium Corporation from 1975 to 1996. It is a 330 page fact based book that walks through much of the history of Modell's contributions to the city and his screw-ups. Regarding the stadium renovation, the politics at that time simply wasn't going to let that happen until Modell was bled dry.
Here is a small excerpt:
One proposal to raise money for the renovation was to extend the sin tax. The term of the original sin tax, passed to raise $117 million for Gateway, was for 15 years, 1990 to 2005. The new suggestion was to extend the tax beyond 2006 to raise whatever amount was needed. A serious question was raised, however: If the money wouldn't be received until 2006, how would the contractors be paid during their work period from 1997-1999. The answer? A loan from the State of Ohio.
A senior vice-president from McDonald & Co. said that financing this way would lead to a problem. The county could end up paying so much interest that less than $30 million would be available to pay construction costs out of a $100 million bond issue. "Because of the delayed revenue stream, resulting in a diminished revenue stream, the sin tax extension is not an efficient way to raise the amount of dollars that is involved here," he advised the mayor's task force. The city, however, did not heed this advice but announced it would place the extension on the November 7, 1995 ballot.
The sin tax extension was a mirage, an illusion. It was nothing more than political posturing. By the way, at the time the county was also trying to solve the problem of Gateway going $28 million over budget. Also by the way, renovation estimates at the time grew from $154 million to $172 million.
Get the book.
Awesome, Thanks
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Gipper I can't find any source that claims he was drubbed out of the NFL by the other owners. For what its worth. Why would the NFL mandate all thirty two teams do a tribute to a guy they ran out of the league?
I don't know where he heard he was kicked out of NFL. Never happened.
I don't know where he heard he was kicked out of NFL. Never happened.
Again, were not any of you alive when this all came down? Its not like it wasn't all over the radio and TV and elsewhere. I didn't make it up.
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This was in Wikipedia:
"Despite a no-cost stadium lease, all revenues from parking, concessions, and TV, as well as a reported $25M Maryland subsidy, Modell's ownership of the Ravens resulted in continual financial hardships, and the NFL stepped in and directed Modell to sell his franchise."
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Formerly Sane said:
THIS.....is your proof that the other owners kicked him out of the league? This is weak even for you!
This is like saying that it's common knowledge that the NFL concluded that Cleveland isn't worthy of an NFL team (because they approved the move to Baltimore)
Modell was allowed to move only after Cleveland was guaranteed a new team, and the Franchise, name, and colors put in a trust until the new stadium was built and ownership announced. Credit Rolling Stone Al Davis setting up the tone in the good old boy owner's network to allow an owner to move if there was financial benefit to be had. "Hey, I might want to do this too." However, this was likely the last time something like this is going to happen, as cities wised up and put poison pills in their stadium leases so big, no owner will be wealthy enough to swallow them and relocate a franchise, besides "specific performance" clauses.
Modell was about to be foreclosed on by Fleet Bank- and the other owners didn't want the embarrassment of a bank taking control of a NFL franchise. Fact.
Also it's damn obvious with 20\20 hindsight Art was going under whether he stayed in Cleveland or moved. He was far too over leveraged. Got to the point his cash stream (even with the Maryland and Baltimore bribes) wasn't enough to pay the interest on his loans. The move just bought him a couple extra years.
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Formerly Sane said:
THIS.....is your proof that the other owners kicked him out of the league? This is weak even for you!
This is like saying that it's common knowledge that the NFL concluded that Cleveland isn't worthy of an NFL team (because they approved the move to Baltimore)
Modell was allowed to move only after Cleveland was guaranteed a new team, and the Franchise, name, and colors put in a trust until the new stadium was built and ownership announced. Credit Rolling Stone Al Davis setting up the tone in the good old boy owner's network to allow an owner to move if there was financial benefit to be had. "Hey, I might want to do this too." However, this was likely the last time something like this is going to happen, as cities wised up and put poison pills in their stadium leases so big, no owner will be wealthy enough to swallow them and relocate a franchise, besides "specific performance" clauses.
Modell was about to be foreclosed on by Fleet Bank- and the other owners didn't want the embarrassment of a bank taking control of a NFL franchise. Fact.
Also it's damn obvious with 20\20 hindsight Art was going under whether he stayed in Cleveland or moved. He was far too over leveraged. Got to the point his cash stream (even with the Maryland and Baltimore bribes) wasn't enough to pay the interest on his loans. The move just bought him a couple extra years.
Modell was allowed to move only after Cleveland was guaranteed a new team, and the Franchise, name, and colors put in a trust until the new stadium was built and ownership announced. Credit Rolling Stone Al Davis setting up the tone in the good old boy owner's network to allow an owner to move if there was financial benefit to be had. "Hey, I might want to do this too." However, this was likely the last time something like this is going to happen, as cities wised up and put poison pills in their stadium leases so big, no owner will be wealthy enough to swallow them and relocate a franchise, besides "specific performance" clauses.
Modell was about to be foreclosed on by Fleet Bank- and the other owners didn't want the embarrassment of a bank taking control of a NFL franchise. Fact.
Also it's damn obvious with 20\20 hindsight Art was going under whether he stayed in Cleveland or moved. He was far too over leveraged. Got to the point his cash stream (even with the Maryland and Baltimore bribes) wasn't enough to pay the interest on his loans. The move just bought him a couple extra years.
yeah but that didn't answer the question whether or not he was kicked out of the NFL.
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This was in Wikipedia:
"Despite a no-cost stadium lease, all revenues from parking, concessions, and TV, as well as a reported $25M Maryland subsidy, Modell's ownership of the Ravens resulted in continual financial hardships, and the NFL stepped in and directed Modell to sell his franchise."
This was in Wikipedia:
"Despite a no-cost stadium lease, all revenues from parking, concessions, and TV, as well as a reported $25M Maryland subsidy, Modell's ownership of the Ravens resulted in continual financial hardships, and the NFL stepped in and directed Modell to sell his franchise."
This hardly means he was "kicked out of the NFL." He was directed to sell because they were concerned about his financial status. Not the same thing, and I think you know that.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Afaik it went down like this.
Art Modell - Fuck this shit I'm outta here, fuck off Cleveland.
NFL Owners - Do your thing Art, Fuck Cleveland.
City of Cleveland - HEY! Hold the fuck on here, you have a lease with us! You can't leave us you're breaking the lease.
Art Modell - Fuck you Cleveland. I'm leaving anyhow.
NFL owners - "shrug"
City of Cleveland - We're suing.
Magistrate - Okay, Mr. Modell, you may transfer your football team from the City of Cleveland and break your lease with the city but the terms of the agreement specify you must forfeit any rights to the history,namesake,uniforms and logo.
City of Cleveland, you will receive a new football team in three years.
NFL owners - Yeah we're cool with that.
"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident" ~Arthur Schopenhauer
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