Nfl Rumors: Banner To “Clean House” As Soon As Season Ends
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Drafting is overrated in the NFL anyway. It is a great coach who gets the most out of his talent always key. Everybody is pretty good entering this league. It is the bad coaching and player relations that destroy teams. Butch Davis wasn't much of a drafter, but his fallout from acting like a douchebag after the 2002 season killed him, not his drafting.
BB sucked drafting in Cleveland.....so what changed in New England? He became the coach he could be.
Interesting point you make about "drafting is overrated". There certainly is some evidence to that effect. The New Englands/Pittsburghs/Denver/Giants etc. never have high draft picks...and always seem to stay on top of the heap.
On the other hand...if you can get that primo QB high in the draft....Elway/P.Manning/E.Manning/..maybe Luck/RGIII,it perhaps can make all the difference to a team.
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Even calling Winslow a "wasted pick" is pushing it. Even Gerard Warren produced..........at a 3rd round level.
Many picks aren't wasted, but misdefined.
Talent pickups are only half the problem to fix with the Browns. The other half is getting a real good coach. Butch Davis was the only "good" coach we had and that was before the 2003 offseason backlash when he lost the lockerroom which led toward his fall.
The whispers I am hearing is Josh McDaniels has all but the job wrapped up and Lombardi will be his personal director. But that is probably for another thread..................
Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.
2009 Draft:
1/12 Knowshon Moreno
1/18 Robert Ayers
2/37 Alphonso Smith
2/48 Darcel McBath
2/64 Richard Quinn
4/114 David Bruton
4/132 Seth Olsen
5/141 Kenny McKinley
6/174 Brandstater
7/225 Blake Schlueter
2010 Draft:
1/22 Demaryius Thomas
1/25 Tim Tebow
2/45 Zane Beadles
3/80 J.D. Walton
3/87 Eric Decker
5/187 Perrish Cox
6/183 Eric Olsen
7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson
7/232 Jammie Kirlew
Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.
2009 Draft:
1/12 Knowshon Moreno
1/18 Robert Ayers
2/37 Alphonso Smith
2/48 Darcel McBath
2/64 Richard Quinn
4/114 David Bruton
4/132 Seth Olsen
5/141 Kenny McKinley
6/174 Brandstater
7/225 Blake Schlueter
2010 Draft:
1/22 Demaryius Thomas
1/25 Tim Tebow
2/45 Zane Beadles
3/80 J.D. Walton
3/87 Eric Decker
5/187 Perrish Cox
6/183 Eric Olsen
7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson
7/232 Jammie Kirlew
Clearly, Banner will have a GM in place and the coach will not be overseeing the draft.
That said ... I'm seeing lots of names that are starters for the 12-3 Broncos.
Zombo
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Could Lombardi ultimately end up like Belichick? i.e. he was a suck ass piece of shit in his first gig or so, then becomes outstanding in his next attempt.
It has been known to happen with a Head Coach, could it happen with a GM? Are there any precedents?
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There is pretty much only one circumstance I would ever think to say the next sentence.
'I will stop watching the browns if....'
Tim tebow is the starting quarterback.
All hype and nothing else. I can come to terms with mcdaniels as the head coach. As long as he doesn't try to fit tebow or Brady quinn into the folds... Remember we traded Quinn to Denver for Hillis and a draft pick... Really traderaped the broncos on that one.... And mcdaniels signed off on that.
I would like to see Andy reid or Denver OC come here before mcdaniels. But I can deal with anyone that is competent.
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We got the better of the Quinn trade for the draft pick, maybe. Hillis did have one decent year but ultimately ended up being a douche and a locker room cancer. The broncos and the browns showed the guy the door. How long will he stick around at Kansas city? At least Quinn is not an utter douche. He's not a quarterback though, either.
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Tebow was pushed on McDaniels by Urban Meyer, who was doing the work Florida/Tebow family wanted him to setup Tebow for life. This imo was the final straw for Meyer, he couldn't play that game anymore and he screwed over Josh McDaniels in the process.
This is where Josh was just to young. He let the influences of the "home team" influence his decisions and not for the better. Tebow was not a pro-form guy no matter how pretty his vertical ball was. As Belicheck said upon Josh's return, you control the ear, the ear do not control you.
Lordy though, we don't have a guy that would like to play in Josh's vertical spread offense..........nope, nobody on this roster..........
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Tebow was pushed on McDaniels by Urban Meyer, who was doing the work Florida/Tebow family wanted him to setup Tebow for life. This imo was the final straw for Meyer, he couldn't play that game anymore and he screwed over Josh McDaniels in the process.
This is where Josh was just to young. He let the influences of the "home team" influence his decisions and not for the better. Tebow was not a pro-form guy no matter how pretty his vertical ball was. As Belicheck said upon Josh's return, you control the ear, the ear do not control you.
Lordy though, we don't have a guy that would like to play in Josh's vertical spread offense..........nope, nobody on this roster..........
Tebow was pushed on McDaniels by Urban Meyer, who was doing the work Florida/Tebow family wanted him to setup Tebow for life. This imo was the final straw for Meyer, he couldn't play that game anymore and he screwed over Josh McDaniels in the process.
This is where Josh was just to young. He let the influences of the "home team" influence his decisions and not for the better. Tebow was not a pro-form guy no matter how pretty his vertical ball was. As Belicheck said upon Josh's return, you control the ear, the ear do not control you.
Lordy though, we don't have a guy that would like to play in Josh's vertical spread offense..........nope, nobody on this roster..........
Isn't that more or less exactly what Weeden played in at Oklahoma St.?
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<I may be crazy, but now that Art Modell is dead, I think we start to ascend.>
Art Modell hasn't had any influence on the Browns since 1995. HOwever, he DIDN'T win his first Superbowl UNTIL he got out of Cleveland. LIKEWISE, until Belichik got out of Cleveland, he didn't win a SB either. Now he has three.
Perhaps it is Cleveland fans, like you, not understanding football but yet chirping out about what teh fans want that has kept the Browns in the shit soup? If anything, Cleveland seems to be a bad omen.
Let's see, I've been a Browns fan since 1970 & have a good handle on what's been going on.
<The guy fired Paul Brown,>>
As he should have. Paul Brown was not the owner nor the Emporer of the Browns. When he went behind Art Modell's back and traded Bobby Mitchell to draft Jim Brown clone Ernie Davis. he stepped over the line and sealed his own fate. Whether you hate Art or not, the Browns were HIS football team. Without Modell, as you saw in 1995, there was no Cleveland Browns.
The team didn't belong to the city, as it does in Green Bay. The team never belonged to teh fans, as it does in Greenbay. The team belonged to Art Modell, and in ANY corporation or company, an employee (PB) no matter how brilliant or popular, simply doesn't go above the owner, without telling him, and make a huge decision, without getting fired.
Some historians, not being vocal because it is such a sensitive subject, believe that Davis was showing signs of being sick BEFORE Paul Brown went and unloaded Mitchell. Now, while it was nobody's fault that Davis got sick, at the end of the day teh trade turned out as disastrous for the Browns as did trading Warfield for Phipps.
So, if you hate Modell's management skills for the Warfield debacle, you can't respect Brown for the Mitchell-Davis debacle. Being that Davis was as big and a little faster than Brown, WTF was Paul Brown thinking anyway?
It would be like Adrian Petersen and Reggie Bush on the same team.
Paul Brown fucked up then. When you are in charge, you're going to fuck up eventually.
Incidentally, Modell didn't take Brown's firing lightly. It was Modell who convinced the NFL to award the Cinci franchise to Brown, and Modell made it financially possible for Brown to rejoin the NFL. Art Modell did a lot of wonderful things for a lot of people....yes, he did. Very charitable person, no argument there.
If you want to blame someone, blame Kosar for winning the coin flip in "The Drive" game and coming out to the chant of the Denver Playes " He;s playing not to lose, he's playing not to lose". Blame Bynar for fumbling. Blame Sipe for throwing a shit pass. BLame Rutigliano for not trusting Cockroft.
I blame Schottenheimer, always did. Fontenot on 3rd &2, when you have other weapons? Pulling Puzzouli out after he sacked Elway?
Fuck you man, Modell gave the Browns SEVERAL real opportunities to go to the SB. It's not his fault the fuckers you guys adore blew it for him. As I remember, I never saw Art Modell with a helmet on in any games at all.
Several being the key word. You think that theory flew over well in Pittsburgh, Dallas, Oakland, LA Rams, for instance? We were basically irrelevant from 1973-79, had a great 1980 season, then irrelevant until 1985-89. 1994 Bellichick finally puts it all together, and Modell announces a move, then cans Bellichick as soon as the moving van hits Baltimore..
<<and we've been well below .500 ever since. Hell, we haven't even hired an experienced NFL coach since 1963.>>
Neither have the Steelers. What's your point?
My point was Paul Brown was 158-48-8. Yes, it seems he didn't adapt to some things, mostly player relations in the 60s. You're right though, it's Art's team- however, Art could have given him a bit more rope, he fired him quickly (like Jerry Jones did to Tom Landry).
<<Let's hope Haslam gets it right. If any fan base "deserves" a winner, it's us. This season made me sick, with Shurmer playing so damn conservative, and perhaps blowing the 22nd pick. >>
We have wasted MANY picks. Couch, Joe Thomas, Quinn, Winslow,Green and the list goes on. ALl things considered, Weeden has contributed mroe than most of our draft picks.
<<The roster doesn't need a complete overhaul, we're missing speed on defense and an impact LB. Make LB a priority, and address the guards so we can run block. Get a high energy coach that can teach...sounds easy, we'll see.>>
And herein lies the problem. The Browns have no QB, no WRs, not LBs or DBs who can truly change a game. We have no pass rushers and no really thunderous short yardage back. Shurmer indeed blows, but so too does Heckert.
This teams needs a COMPLETE overhaul and I would be fine with them cutting or trading all but perhaps 5 players.
Joe Thomis is an ABSOLUTE MUST to be traded while we can still get something for him.
<<I'm sick of seeing many teams go from 4-12 to 10-6,>>
If you don't watch teams that went 4-12 teh previous year, you won't get sick.
<<We're long overdue.>>
For what? A blowjob? I am pretty sure that the NFL doesn't have any rules to help teams who feel they are "over due". I beleive until the owner can turn a deaf ear to the local Cleveland media and fans, the Browns will continue to suck BBC.
My opinion, two cents. That's what a forum is for.
I am willing to predict that not only will the Browns one day soon be the only team never to go to a SB, but they will occupy that lowly position for many years to come.
We will know very soon. If Heckert, Cribbs, McCoy and Joe Thomas are not cleared out, you can count on more losing.
<I believe we have the NFC North & AFC East next year, so it won't be easy.>
Unless we play Austintown Fitch High School, it is not going to be easy.
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Tebow was pushed on McDaniels by Urban Meyer, who was doing the work Florida/Tebow family wanted him to setup Tebow for life. This imo was the final straw for Meyer, he couldn't play that game anymore and he screwed over Josh McDaniels in the process.
This is where Josh was just to young. He let the influences of the "home team" influence his decisions and not for the better. Tebow was not a pro-form guy no matter how pretty his vertical ball was. As Belicheck said upon Josh's return, you control the ear, the ear do not control you.
Lordy though, we don't have a guy that would like to play in Josh's vertical spread offense..........nope, nobody on this roster..........
Isn't that more or less exactly what Weeden played in at Oklahoma St.?
Isn't that more or less exactly what Weeden played in at Oklahoma St.?
I hope he was being facetious. Travis Benjamin and Josh Gordon fit just fine in a vertical offense.
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Mcdaniels was horrible at drafting when he had the power in Denver. No way do i want him drafting our players. As a head coach i do like him but he needs a solid GM to work with and that GM is not Lombardi. Id say the best scenario is to Mcdaniels calling the plays and the head coach ala Sean Payton and Heckert staying on as GM with power of the roster. Below is Mcdaniels drafts in 09 10. If you compare it to Heckerts two drafts its not even close.
2009 Draft:
1/12 Knowshon Moreno
1/18 Robert Ayers
2/37 Alphonso Smith
2/48 Darcel McBath
2/64 Richard Quinn
4/114 David Bruton
4/132 Seth Olsen
5/141 Kenny McKinley
6/174 Brandstater
7/225 Blake Schlueter
2010 Draft:
1/22 Demaryius Thomas
1/25 Tim Tebow
2/45 Zane Beadles
3/80 J.D. Walton
3/87 Eric Decker
5/187 Perrish Cox
6/183 Eric Olsen
7/225 Syd'Quan Thompson
7/232 Jammie Kirlew
Clearly, Banner will have a GM in place and the coach will not be overseeing the draft.
That said ... I'm seeing lots of names that are starters for the 12-3 Broncos.
Zombo
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Zombo said:
Clearly, Banner will have a GM in place and the coach will not be overseeing the draft.
That said ... I'm seeing lots of names that are starters for the 12-3 Broncos.
Zombo
Including Mike Adams, who wasn't good enough for the Browns.
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Why hasn't Gruden's name come up as new coach of the Browns?
IIRC, the new Browns owner is a big Tennessee booster and reportedly offered Gruden a piece of the Browns if he accepted the HC position at TN.
Why not bring him in to be the new coach?
My choice for a 'left field' selection.
"God is great. Beer is good. People are crazy." -
Why hasn't Gruden's name come up as new coach of the Browns?
IIRC, the new Browns owner is a big Tennessee booster and reportedly offered Gruden a piece of the Browns if he accepted the HC position at TN.
Why not bring him in to be the new coach?
My choice for a 'left field' selection.
Why hasn't Gruden's name come up as new coach of the Browns?
the guy is making millions of dollars behind the mike. just like every other fraud. stay in the cushy job, talk shit, look like you've been on a month long crack binge......but who gives a shit?
that tells you right there that the guy would rather be mister mysterious 'chucky' than put his rep on the line and come back and coach a team that might 'taint' his already questionable record. how's all his QB sit-downs doing? all these guys are gonna be all pros..blah blah blah.
fuck that POS.
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Unfortunately for us Browns fans this cycle seems unbreakable!
We will forever be in clean house and rebuild mode!
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I see Andy Reid going to San Diego and taking Shurmur, Childress and Heckert with him.
Zombo
Zombo said:
I see Andy Reid going to San Diego and taking Shurmur, Childress and Heckert with him.
Zombo
I hope you are right. Then I would likely be able to laugh at San Diego for many years to come. I enjoy laughing at Spanos.
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I see Andy Reid going to San Diego and taking Shurmur, Childress and Heckert with him.
Zombo
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report on espn.com this morning says that "the Browns are looking for a frest start". According to the article that rules out people like McDaniels. We are expected to make a "huge run" at Chip Kelley and Bill O'Brien, or search for a "bright, young NFL mind."
If that is all to be believed, that rules out McDaniels and probably also Gruden and Cowher (not that I thought either of them were really options.) It will be an interesting few days after we beat Pittspuke today.
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