Desmond Bryant
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Maybe. All I know is that heretofore Sheard has been a DE. He doesn't seem like a LB to me.
So, as far as I am concerned, these guys are all interchangeable somewhat.
If Sheard can't make the switch to OLB then they will trade him. They have no use for a 4-3 DE.
If Sheard can't make the switch to OLB then they will trade him. They have no use for a 4-3 DE.
You make a good point Im having trouble finding his strong suit right now.
"Will" is out to slow
"Sam" Im not sure how he will do covering TE's??
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I don't see where having 5 guys in a rotation for 3 positions is an "overabundance" of talent. In fact, I still see Sheard at DE, even in the 3-4. That would make 6 players in that rotation. Keep them fresh, keep them nasty.
At LB now we have DQ, Kruger, Groves, Gocong, Fort, Acho, Robertson, JMJ,..and I suppose I am missing someone. That is also a decent rotation of 8 players for the 4 LB spots.
That makes 14 potential players for the defensive front 7 spot. Is that about right for an NFL roster?
How do you see the 250 lb Sheard at DE while the 280 lb Kruger is at OLB? I think both of these players will be moved back and forth between DE and OLB, but their position the majority of the time will be OLB.
How do you see the 250 lb Sheard at DE while the 280 lb Kruger is at OLB? I think both of these players will be moved back and forth between DE and OLB, but their position the majority of the time will be OLB.
Yeah, guys don't realize on a lot of plays a 3-4 is in actuality a 5-2 defense.
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If Sheard can't make the switch to OLB then they will trade him. They have no use for a 4-3 DE.
You make a good point Im having trouble finding his strong suit right now.
"Will" is out to slow
"Sam" Im not sure how he will do covering TE's??
You make a good point Im having trouble finding his strong suit right now.
"Will" is out to slow
"Sam" Im not sure how he will do covering TE's??
He's plenty fast and athletic, he had plenty of teams looking at him as a 3-4 OLB in the draft. What I AM saying is that he WILL NOT play 3-4 DE. I'm not saying he will or will not make the transition to 3-4 OLB, but I am saying they will try before ever trying to trade/release him. I don't feel Groves will come in and upseat him as a starter, I'll say that much in certainty.
Ruining threads since 1897. -
Most teams don't employ a backup for every DL position in order to free up a roster spot. That's where utility players come in handy.Same goes for offensive linemen.
I'm not asking that we do that, but it would make sense. Name any other 3-4 team that's been this deep at DL with solid quality players. It's a waste of talent to a certain extent.
If we could turn Rubin into a good player at another position of need as well as a depth player, it makes sense. You bolster your roster with talent any way you can.
He'd be more valuable to us as a rookie OG that plays every snap than as a 28 year old DT that plays 60-75% of the snaps.
Most teams don't employ a backup for every DL position in order to free up a roster spot. That's where utility players come in handy.Same goes for offensive linemen.
I'm not asking that we do that, but it would make sense. Name any other 3-4 team that's been this deep at DL with solid quality players. It's a waste of talent to a certain extent.
If we could turn Rubin into a good player at another position of need as well as a depth player, it makes sense. You bolster your roster with talent any way you can.
He'd be more valuable to us as a rookie OG that plays every snap than as a 28 year old DT that plays 60-75% of the snaps.
And you're thinking injuries don't happen either. Taylor was out 1\2 the season last year, remember? So who plays nose in that case? Rubin. Cripe, we finally have quality depth at a position, and you guys want to trade it away.
Incidentally with all these defensive pickups, it wouldn't be out of the question to draft Warmack with our #1, assuming there isn't a CB there we don't love.
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I don't mind the move if they plan to keep everyone but if they end up trading Taylor or Rubin , which is a possibility then I'd be disappointed.
Still think they overpaid, he's a 2013 Frosty Rucker with more promising numbers for half a season.
Like the size could see him at left end,Rubin on the nose Taylor at DT.. Winn and Hughes rotating.
Wasn't expecting a DL but hopefully it's one of our strengths again next season.
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Most teams don't employ a backup for every DL position in order to free up a roster spot. That's where utility players come in handy.Same goes for offensive linemen.
I'm not asking that we do that, but it would make sense. Name any other 3-4 team that's been this deep at DL with solid quality players. It's a waste of talent to a certain extent.
If we could turn Rubin into a good player at another position of need as well as a depth player, it makes sense. You bolster your roster with talent any way you can.
He'd be more valuable to us as a rookie OG that plays every snap than as a 28 year old DT that plays 60-75% of the snaps.
Most teams don't employ a backup for every DL position in order to free up a roster spot. That's where utility players come in handy.Same goes for offensive linemen.
I'm not asking that we do that, but it would make sense. Name any other 3-4 team that's been this deep at DL with solid quality players. It's a waste of talent to a certain extent.
If we could turn Rubin into a good player at another position of need as well as a depth player, it makes sense. You bolster your roster with talent any way you can.
He'd be more valuable to us as a rookie OG that plays every snap than as a 28 year old DT that plays 60-75% of the snaps.
Sorry, but to me it sounds Retarded to weaken your team just when you have tried to strengthen it. Besides....these guys need to be football players. They can't be giving us this horseshit that "I can't play the 3-4, I can only play in the 4-3" or vice versa. Play football...tackle some sumbitch on the other team.
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You make a good point Im having trouble finding his strong suit right now.
"Will" is out to slow
"Sam" Im not sure how he will do covering TE's??
He's plenty fast and athletic, he had plenty of teams looking at him as a 3-4 OLB in the draft. What I AM saying is that he WILL NOT play 3-4 DE. I'm not saying he will or will not make the transition to 3-4 OLB, but I am saying they will try before ever trying to trade/release him. I don't feel Groves will come in and upseat him as a starter, I'll say that much in certainty.
He's plenty fast and athletic, he had plenty of teams looking at him as a 3-4 OLB in the draft. What I AM saying is that he WILL NOT play 3-4 DE. I'm not saying he will or will not make the transition to 3-4 OLB, but I am saying they will try before ever trying to trade/release him. I don't feel Groves will come in and upseat him as a starter, I'll say that much in certainty.
Ok the reason im saying that I dont know where he fits is he has never been in the olb role. His job has been put a hand down and run at the qb.
I agree he is athletic and that is why I think you are assuming that he will be great in pass protection/coverage. His biggest knock on him was that he is above avg. In run stopping, and his unknown coverage skills and instincts. We will see. Maybe some of the questions will be answered at the presser in Cleveland today.
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Most teams don't employ a backup for every DL position in order to free up a roster spot. That's where utility players come in handy.Same goes for offensive linemen.
I'm not asking that we do that, but it would make sense. Name any other 3-4 team that's been this deep at DL with solid quality players. It's a waste of talent to a certain extent.
If we could turn Rubin into a good player at another position of need as well as a depth player, it makes sense. You bolster your roster with talent any way you can.
He'd be more valuable to us as a rookie OG that plays every snap than as a 28 year old DT that plays 60-75% of the snaps.
Sorry, but to me it sounds Retarded to weaken your team just when you have tried to strengthen it. Besides....these guys need to be football players. They can't be giving us this horseshit that "I can't play the 3-4, I can only play in the 4-3" or vice versa. Play football...tackle some sumbitch on the other team.
Sorry, but to me it sounds Retarded to weaken your team just when you have tried to strengthen it. Besides....these guys need to be football players. They can't be giving us this horseshit that "I can't play the 3-4, I can only play in the 4-3" or vice versa. Play football...tackle some sumbitch on the other team.
And that's why nobody takes your opinion seriously on matters of personnel or philosophies.
The mere fact that you don't understand the difference between a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 OLB shows me you're not ready.
And taking a surplus player and trading him in hopes to address a period of need is hardly weakening the team. You fail to grasp simple concepts
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Most teams don't employ a backup for every DL position in order to free up a roster spot. That's where utility players come in handy.Same goes for offensive linemen.
I'm not asking that we do that, but it would make sense. Name any other 3-4 team that's been this deep at DL with solid quality players. It's a waste of talent to a certain extent.
If we could turn Rubin into a good player at another position of need as well as a depth player, it makes sense. You bolster your roster with talent any way you can.
He'd be more valuable to us as a rookie OG that plays every snap than as a 28 year old DT that plays 60-75% of the snaps.
And you're thinking injuries don't happen either. Taylor was out 1\2 the season last year, remember? So who plays nose in that case? Rubin. Cripe, we finally have quality depth at a position, and you guys want to trade it away.
Incidentally with all these defensive pickups, it wouldn't be out of the question to draft Warmack with our #1, assuming there isn't a CB there we don't love.
And you're thinking injuries don't happen either. Taylor was out 1\2 the season last year, remember? So who plays nose in that case? Rubin. Cripe, we finally have quality depth at a position, and you guys want to trade it away.
Incidentally with all these defensive pickups, it wouldn't be out of the question to draft Warmack with our #1, assuming there isn't a CB there we don't love.
That's the risk you take in filling out a roster.
What happens when we have no injuries? We let a perfectly talented player sit and rot waiting for his chance to become the starter?
In a perfect world we'd be three deep with quality players at every position. Roster limitations prohibit that. We have to find the balance between depth and talent. Right now were in a great position because Rubin is valuable to us either way, but depending on the offer he may be more valuable to us as trade bait.
You have to make moves to make your team better.
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And you're thinking injuries don't happen either. Taylor was out 1\2 the season last year, remember? So who plays nose in that case? Rubin. Cripe, we finally have quality depth at a position, and you guys want to trade it away.
Incidentally with all these defensive pickups, it wouldn't be out of the question to draft Warmack with our #1, assuming there isn't a CB there we don't love.
That's the risk you take in filling out a roster.
What happens when we have no injuries? We let a perfectly talented player sit and rot waiting for his chance to become the starter?
In a perfect world we'd be three deep with quality players at every position. Roster limitations prohibit that. We have to find the balance between depth and talent. Right now were in a great position because Rubin is valuable to us either way, but depending on the offer he may be more valuable to us as trade bait.
You have to make moves to make your team better.
That's the risk you take in filling out a roster.
What happens when we have no injuries? We let a perfectly talented player sit and rot waiting for his chance to become the starter?
In a perfect world we'd be three deep with quality players at every position. Roster limitations prohibit that. We have to find the balance between depth and talent. Right now were in a great position because Rubin is valuable to us either way, but depending on the offer he may be more valuable to us as trade bait.
You have to make moves to make your team better.
Ever hear of a rotation to keep guys fresh?
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That's the risk you take in filling out a roster.
What happens when we have no injuries? We let a perfectly talented player sit and rot waiting for his chance to become the starter?
In a perfect world we'd be three deep with quality players at every position. Roster limitations prohibit that. We have to find the balance between depth and talent. Right now were in a great position because Rubin is valuable to us either way, but depending on the offer he may be more valuable to us as trade bait.
You have to make moves to make your team better.
Ever hear of a rotation to keep guys fresh?
Ever hear of a rotation to keep guys fresh?
You show me a successful 3-4 team that employs 6 starting DL.
Depth is a nice and welcome commodity, but when you have 4 or more major holes like we do...you do what you can to fill them.
Once you get them filled, then you focus on depth.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Sorry, but to me it sounds Retarded to weaken your team just when you have tried to strengthen it. Besides....these guys need to be football players. They can't be giving us this horseshit that "I can't play the 3-4, I can only play in the 4-3" or vice versa. Play football...tackle some sumbitch on the other team.
And that's why nobody takes your opinion seriously on matters of personnel or philosophies.
The mere fact that you don't understand the difference between a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 OLB shows me you're not ready.
And taking a surplus player and trading him in hopes to address a period of need is hardly weakening the team. You fail to grasp simple concepts
And that's why nobody takes your opinion seriously on matters of personnel or philosophies.
The mere fact that you don't understand the difference between a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 OLB shows me you're not ready.
And taking a surplus player and trading him in hopes to address a period of need is hardly weakening the team. You fail to grasp simple concepts
Oh, I understand that people like you think that the game of football is all nuance and technique and that all the players should be be treated delicately like they were fairy princesses. But I see that as a lot of excuse for failure.
But at its core, I go with Vince Lombardi's credo over yours: "it is all about blocking and tackling." We need football players. Guys that are bigger, stronger, faster than those on the other team. All those nuances can and will be overcome if you have better, smarter football players, and that is whether they play the 4-3 or 3-4 or the 5-3 or the 46 defense.
And I sure the hell disagree that anyone that we have now on this front 7 is "surplus".
The Browns defense last year ranked 19th against the run and 25th against the pass. I don't see how any one of these players can be "surplus" until they have like a top 5 ranking in those categories.
I mean, does anyone out there really give a flying fadoodle if the Browns run the 4-3 or the 3-4? I don't. Do you?
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You show me a successful 3-4 team that employs 6 starting DL.
Depth is a nice and welcome commodity, but when you have 4 or more major holes like we do...you do what you can to fill them.
Once you get them filled, then you focus on depth.
I'll just say this- BS. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Time will tell what the Browns Front office will do.
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You show me a successful 3-4 team that employs 6 starting DL.
Depth is a nice and welcome commodity, but when you have 4 or more major holes like we do...you do what you can to fill them.
Once you get them filled, then you focus on depth.
You have a 53 man roster. There are 22 starting positions (not including kicker/punter).
Seven of those 22 positions are on the defensive front 7. That is 31.8% of your starting football team. If you dedicate 14 roster positions to that front 7 that is only 26.4% of your roster. Having 6 DL and 8 LBs on the roster does not seem out of line, nor does it seem that having backups for each position is "surplus".
Or, if you want to break it down further: If you have a 3-4 then 13.6% of your starting lineups are Defensive linemen. If you have 6 DL on your 53 man roster that is only 11.3%.
In a 3-4, the 4 LBs constitute 18.18% of your starting lineups. Having backups for each position gives you 8 LBs. 8 LBs makes up 15.09% of a teams starting lineups.
So, as I see it, taking into account the special teamers...a team that uses the 3-4 SHOULD have 6 DL and 8 LBs on their roster.
In the words of Bill Clinton: its arithmetic, stupid. Keeping 6 DL and 8 LBs is the perfect ratio for this team going forward with the 3-4.
Don't open one hole to fill another. Just fill the other fucking hole.
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You show me a successful 3-4 team that employs 6 starting DL.
Depth is a nice and welcome commodity, but when you have 4 or more major holes like we do...you do what you can to fill them.
Once you get them filled, then you focus on depth.
The Ravens had 7 DL on their Super Bowl roster.
What do you mean by 6 starters?
There will be three starters. Bryant, Rubin and Taylor get paid to start.
Winn and Hughes get paid to be backups.
Sheard will be a LB.
I think the problem with the math here may be your over-inflated opinion of the depth guys. They are rotational guys. Every team needs them.
Zombo
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And that's why nobody takes your opinion seriously on matters of personnel or philosophies.
The mere fact that you don't understand the difference between a 3-4 OLB and a 4-3 OLB shows me you're not ready.
And taking a surplus player and trading him in hopes to address a period of need is hardly weakening the team. You fail to grasp simple concepts
Oh, I understand that people like you think that the game of football is all nuance and technique and that all the players should be be treated delicately like they were fairy princesses. But I see that as a lot of excuse for failure.
But at its core, I go with Vince Lombardi's credo over yours: "it is all about blocking and tackling." We need football players. Guys that are bigger, stronger, faster than those on the other team. All those nuances can and will be overcome if you have better, smarter football players, and that is whether they play the 4-3 or 3-4 or the 5-3 or the 46 defense.
And I sure the hell disagree that anyone that we have now on this front 7 is "surplus".
The Browns defense last year ranked 19th against the run and 25th against the pass. I don't see how any one of these players can be "surplus" until they have like a top 5 ranking in those categories.
I mean, does anyone out there really give a flying fadoodle if the Browns run the 4-3 or the 3-4? I don't. Do you?
Oh, I understand that people like you think that the game of football is all nuance and technique and that all the players should be be treated delicately like they were fairy princesses. But I see that as a lot of excuse for failure.
But at its core, I go with Vince Lombardi's credo over yours: "it is all about blocking and tackling." We need football players. Guys that are bigger, stronger, faster than those on the other team. All those nuances can and will be overcome if you have better, smarter football players, and that is whether they play the 4-3 or 3-4 or the 5-3 or the 46 defense.
And I sure the hell disagree that anyone that we have now on this front 7 is "surplus".
The Browns defense last year ranked 19th against the run and 25th against the pass. I don't see how any one of these players can be "surplus" until they have like a top 5 ranking in those categories.
I mean, does anyone out there really give a flying fadoodle if the Browns run the 4-3 or the 3-4? I don't. Do you?
Gip, you're right. How could I and every coach/exec/coordinator be so blind?
Schemes are useless. Lets line 11 players up wherever they want. After all, it's just tackling a person with a ball.
Your ignorance of the sport is astounding.
You show me any team that runs a 5-3 base defense or a 46 defense and I'll show you a 0 win team.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
You show me a successful 3-4 team that employs 6 starting DL.
Depth is a nice and welcome commodity, but when you have 4 or more major holes like we do...you do what you can to fill them.
Once you get them filled, then you focus on depth.
The Ravens had 7 DL on their Super Bowl roster.
What do you mean by 6 starters?
There will be three starters. Bryant, Rubin and Taylor get paid to start.
Winn and Hughes get paid to be backups.
Sheard will be a LB.
I think the problem with the math here may be your over-inflated opinion of the depth guys. They are rotational guys. Every team needs them.
Zombo
Zombo said:
The Ravens had 7 DL on their Super Bowl roster.
What do you mean by 6 starters?
There will be three starters. Bryant, Rubin and Taylor get paid to start.
Winn and Hughes get paid to be backups.
Sheard will be a LB.
I think the problem with the math here may be your over-inflated opinion of the depth guys. They are rotational guys. Every team needs them.
Zombo
You do realize Kruger and Sheard will both rotate in at DE, right? Kruger plays with his hand in the dirt about a quarter of the time.
That's Taylor, Rubin, Bryant, Kruger, Sheard, Winn and Hughes rotating at 3 spots.
Any one of those players, excluding Hughes, can start for many teams in the NFL.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
You show me a successful 3-4 team that employs 6 starting DL.
Depth is a nice and welcome commodity, but when you have 4 or more major holes like we do...you do what you can to fill them.
Once you get them filled, then you focus on depth.
The Ravens had 7 DL on their Super Bowl roster.
What do you mean by 6 starters?
There will be three starters. Bryant, Rubin and Taylor get paid to start.
Winn and Hughes get paid to be backups.
Sheard will be a LB.
I think the problem with the math here may be your over-inflated opinion of the depth guys. They are rotational guys. Every team needs them.
Zombo
Zombo said:
The Ravens had 7 DL on their Super Bowl roster.
What do you mean by 6 starters?
There will be three starters. Bryant, Rubin and Taylor get paid to start.
Winn and Hughes get paid to be backups.
Sheard will be a LB.
I think the problem with the math here may be your over-inflated opinion of the depth guys. They are rotational guys. Every team needs them.
Zombo
I think you're grossly underestimating the value of Winn and maybe Hughes. Yes, they were picked to be backups, but you're suggesting that they'll never be anything more than that. Given that they're both rookies and that they started behind Rubin, the 13th best DL, and Taylor, the 39th best DL (and those ranks include DE's as well), you can't honestly expect them to have more playing time than these guys who have been doing it for longer. What we have seen in their limited playing time of their rookie year, however, suggests that these guys, especially Winn, could very well be starters on other teams in the near future.
For one team to have 5 defensive tackles that are as talented as ours is unheard of. Is that much talent for 3 positions necessary? Debatable. Is it a good thing? Absolutely. Why is it good? If we retain all of them, they are going to beat the shit out of the offensive line. If we keep em, we must ask, for how long? I guarantee that if their level of play continues, they're going to leave to start somewhere else when their contracts expire. If we trade them, maybe that will allow us to snag another piece in the draft. There are upsides and downsides to both choices, and the consideration of both is much better for the Browns than the outright dismissal of either.
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Zombo said:
The Ravens had 7 DL on their Super Bowl roster.
What do you mean by 6 starters?
There will be three starters. Bryant, Rubin and Taylor get paid to start.
Winn and Hughes get paid to be backups.
Sheard will be a LB.
I think the problem with the math here may be your over-inflated opinion of the depth guys. They are rotational guys. Every team needs them.
Zombo
You do realize Kruger and Sheard will both rotate in at DE, right? Kruger plays with his hand in the dirt about a quarter of the time.
That's Taylor, Rubin, Bryant, Kruger, Sheard, Winn and Hughes rotating at 3 spots.
Any one of those players, excluding Hughes, can start for many teams in the NFL.
You do realize Kruger and Sheard will both rotate in at DE, right? Kruger plays with his hand in the dirt about a quarter of the time.
That's Taylor, Rubin, Bryant, Kruger, Sheard, Winn and Hughes rotating at 3 spots.
Any one of those players, excluding Hughes, can start for many teams in the NFL.
Yes, I realize that, and it's five positions because Sheard and Kruger will be playing LB the majority of the time.
Billy Winn cannot start for many teams. Billy Winn is a guy we picked up in the 6th round that will help out in the rotation.
You are getting kind of "Poetic G" about Billy Winn.
Zombo
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