Background Checks Bill
-
Dear Friend,
Thank you for joining me in defending our right to bear arms. Right now, President Obama's allies in the anti-gun lobby are doing everything in their power to take away our Second Amendment rights.
The right to protect our family and ourselves from whatever threats we may encounter is precious, and we must defend it from Washington liberals.
They want to prevent law-abiding Americans from possessing a firearm while making it easier for criminals to use one against us.
As the Republican Leader in the Senate, I am working with fellow conservatives to fight back on the left’s attacks but I need your help to do so. If you believe that our Second Amendment rights are worth fighting for, will you please donate $5 to our cause?
The Second Amendment ended the “gun debate,” and it’s time for Democrats to understand that. Make no mistake about it; the far-left are using their allies in the Senate, the media, and White House to work to limit your ability to own a firearm.
Gun owners and Second Amendment supporters have been called “stupid” by Piers Morgan, and “heartless mother*****” by Jim Carrey.
This vitriol from the left must be combated.
For Freedom,
Mitch McConnell
-
I don't think it's worthless at all. You'd just have to do it right.
Sure, it's not going to stop everything. But to take the VT shooter for a second, he had been diagnosed. He should have been in a system. He passed all of his checks (he lied on a form) and a better system could have prevented him from getting those guns. Could he then get guns in other ways? Sure. But a real system of background checks, run through the FBI, should make some difference and is worth doing. We're not just talking about mass murders. We're also talking about every day felons, thugs, rapists, domestic abusers, etc.
This is where my problem lies. What if say you go through a messy divorce or have a tragic family death and you get treatment for mental health reasons. Twenty years later you want to buy a gun because you are getting older and less physically able to defend yourself. You go in and fail a background check because of some note in your file that twenty years ago you were having a rough patch. You served in the military, you come back with PTSD you get treatment you rehab, but you still are considered a mental risk. Felony drug charges for nonviolent criminals. Laws based in morality that carry felony weights. I just don't like it.
This is where my problem lies. What if say you go through a messy divorce or have a tragic family death and you get treatment for mental health reasons. Twenty years later you want to buy a gun because you are getting older and less physically able to defend yourself. You go in and fail a background check because of some note in your file that twenty years ago you were having a rough patch. You served in the military, you come back with PTSD you get treatment you rehab, but you still are considered a mental risk. Felony drug charges for nonviolent criminals. Laws based in morality that carry felony weights. I just don't like it.
Those are real concerns. It's going to be tough to decide which categories of mental illness can't have guns, and which felonies.
I wouldn't think depression and the like would count. Something like schizophrenia should.
As for felonies, I'd think you'd restrict it to violent felonies.
-
This is where my problem lies. What if say you go through a messy divorce or have a tragic family death and you get treatment for mental health reasons. Twenty years later you want to buy a gun because you are getting older and less physically able to defend yourself. You go in and fail a background check because of some note in your file that twenty years ago you were having a rough patch. You served in the military, you come back with PTSD you get treatment you rehab, but you still are considered a mental risk. Felony drug charges for nonviolent criminals. Laws based in morality that carry felony weights. I just don't like it.
Those are real concerns. It's going to be tough to decide which categories of mental illness can't have guns, and which felonies.
I wouldn't think depression and the like would count. Something like schizophrenia should.
As for felonies, I'd think you'd restrict it to violent felonies.
Those are real concerns. It's going to be tough to decide which categories of mental illness can't have guns, and which felonies.
I wouldn't think depression and the like would count. Something like schizophrenia should.
As for felonies, I'd think you'd restrict it to violent felonies.
But then we are asking politicians which are almost universally uninformed to make sensible legislation, and I just don't have faith in a single one of these circus clowns running the show. I would rather they do nothing at all than suffer through some ill thought out monster.
As a side note. The cynic in me sees this as nothing more than a backdoor at registry for all guns. Keeping files on every gun purchaser and every detail about them.
-
I am leary of all of this because the government cant even deliver the mail without screwing up. I have no issue with background checks in theory. I have an issue on how they may or may not be implemented. Also, part of the issue with the mental side is on having states report that info properly so they are part of a background check. But as runboy said, how do you handle issues where you had a rough patch years ago and are no fine, how does that information get scrubbed or removed etc. So I think in theory lots of people support the idea of the checks, they question is how they are implemented.
-
I am leary of all of this because the government cant even deliver the mail without screwing up. I have no issue with background checks in theory. I have an issue on how they may or may not be implemented. Also, part of the issue with the mental side is on having states report that info properly so they are part of a background check. But as runboy said, how do you handle issues where you had a rough patch years ago and are no fine, how does that information get scrubbed or removed etc. So I think in theory lots of people support the idea of the checks, they question is how they are implemented.
I am leary of all of this because the government cant even deliver the mail without screwing up. I have no issue with background checks in theory. I have an issue on how they may or may not be implemented. Also, part of the issue with the mental side is on having states report that info properly so they are part of a background check. But as runboy said, how do you handle issues where you had a rough patch years ago and are no fine, how does that information get scrubbed or removed etc. So I think in theory lots of people support the idea of the checks, they question is how they are implemented.
If something like that turns up maybe they send you to a trained psychiatrist to clear you. Does it inconveniance you? Probably. But you shooting somebody is a bit inconvenient for them.
-
The standard in some states is involuntary commitment, but that's a pretty low bar. The VT shooter was seriously ill, and was thought to be a danger to himself or others, but not involuntarily committed.
-
Id love to hear the NRAs plan for overhauling the mental health system and exactly how they plan to define and identify the mentally ill, and their proposal for what to do with those people.
They've pointed a lot of fingers at mental health but haven't offered any sort of solution.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Background checks, which the republicans oppose,(and they should feel ashamed of that) is a pretty worthless measure that, unfortunately, the NRA is sort of right about. What good is it to background check James Holmes and Jared Loughner and Adam Lanza and Seung-hui cho? They're not criminals...yet.
A mandatory psych eval with the mandatory background check might be somewhat effective. Then the NRA could have their mental health question addressed.
Background checks, which the republicans oppose,(and they should feel ashamed of that) is a pretty worthless measure that, unfortunately, the NRA is sort of right about. What good is it to background check James Holmes and Jared Loughner and Adam Lanza and Seung-hui cho? They're not criminals...yet.
A mandatory psych eval with the mandatory background check might be somewhat effective. Then the NRA could have their mental health question addressed.
Sieg Heil.
-
Background checks, which the republicans oppose,(and they should feel ashamed of that) is a pretty worthless measure that, unfortunately, the NRA is sort of right about. What good is it to background check James Holmes and Jared Loughner and Adam Lanza and Seung-hui cho? They're not criminals...yet.
A mandatory psych eval with the mandatory background check might be somewhat effective. Then the NRA could have their mental health question addressed.
Sieg Heil.
Sieg Heil.
And you say woody doesn't contribute. The funny Thing is I agreed with both you and the NRA and you called me a Nazi. Awkward.
-
As I understand it, this bill, Pat Toomey and the other guy, are working on, is just background checks by anybody who sells at a
gun show.
There was something else, but I didn't catch what it was, got a phone call...
It -won't- interfere with families' heirlooms being passed to sons and daughters, etc.
I'm fine with that.
BTW, it is a mistake to say the NRA does not support background checks. They don't support universal background checks- because
that is only possible with a gun registration database, etc etc.
The safeguard against abuse of that information, is to require that information to not be tracked or kept after whatever months. That prevents
it from becoming a gigantic personal information database of gun owners, etc etc etc. With safeguards in place, go ahead and expand
background checks to all sellers at gun shows. But eventually, the extremist anti gunners push it way, way past that. Even Biden and Feinstein
have openly admitted it's a toe in the door. Too bad.
-
As I understand it, this bill, Pat Toomey and the other guy, are working on, is just background checks by anybody who sells at a
gun show.
There was something else, but I didn't catch what it was, got a phone call...
It -won't- interfere with families' heirlooms being passed to sons and daughters, etc.
I'm fine with that.
BTW, it is a mistake to say the NRA does not support background checks. They don't support universal background checks- because
that is only possible with a gun registration database, etc etc.
The safeguard against abuse of that information, is to require that information to not be tracked or kept after whatever months. That prevents
it from becoming a gigantic personal information database of gun owners, etc etc etc. With safeguards in place, go ahead and expand
background checks to all sellers at gun shows. But eventually, the extremist anti gunners push it way, way past that. Even Biden and Feinstein
have openly admitted it's a toe in the door. Too bad.
As I understand it, this bill, Pat Toomey and the other guy, are working on, is just background checks by anybody who sells at a
gun show.
There was something else, but I didn't catch what it was, got a phone call...
It -won't- interfere with families' heirlooms being passed to sons and daughters, etc.
I'm fine with that.
BTW, it is a mistake to say the NRA does not support background checks. They don't support universal background checks- because
that is only possible with a gun registration database, etc etc.
The safeguard against abuse of that information, is to require that information to not be tracked or kept after whatever months. That prevents
it from becoming a gigantic personal information database of gun owners, etc etc etc. With safeguards in place, go ahead and expand
background checks to all sellers at gun shows. But eventually, the extremist anti gunners push it way, way past that. Even Biden and Feinstein
have openly admitted it's a toe in the door. Too bad.
you do know that authorities can find credit scores and histories from your drivers license...
doesnt seem like much of a stretch for the same authorities to enter gun purchaser data to it as well..
thereby making it a permanent record?
-
Okay, some details coming out, and the original story doesn't have it all straight: the record of the checks will be kept by licensed gun dealers, but "The new bill would expand checks to nearly every gun transaction except for those between relatives" does not seem to be true. It seems like there are lots of private gun sales that won't need checks, creating a loophole big enough to drive a truck through: "The amendment to the guns legislation already proposed in the Senate would not cover private transactions between individuals, unless there was advertising or an online service involved."
So, a step forward, but a very small one.
Okay, some details coming out, and the original story doesn't have it all straight: the record of the checks will be kept by licensed gun dealers, but "The new bill would expand checks to nearly every gun transaction except for those between relatives" does not seem to be true. It seems like there are lots of private gun sales that won't need checks, creating a loophole big enough to drive a truck through: "The amendment to the guns legislation already proposed in the Senate would not cover private transactions between individuals, unless there was advertising or an online service involved."
So, a step forward, but a very small one.
This was one of my suggestions several months ago when Cysko & I were going back & forth. Except I wanted online transactions/advertisements included in the BGC's. the online thing keeps people in remote areas from falling victim to price gouging. So I think it should still be a viable means of commerce, but should be included in the BgC's.
-
Id love to hear the NRAs plan for overhauling the mental health system and exactly how they plan to define and identify the mentally ill, and their proposal for what to do with those people.
They've pointed a lot of fingers at mental health but haven't offered any sort of solution.
Id love to hear the NRAs plan for overhauling the mental health system and exactly how they plan to define and identify the mentally ill, and their proposal for what to do with those people.
They've pointed a lot of fingers at mental health but haven't offered any sort of solution.
Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
-
Id love to hear the NRAs plan for overhauling the mental health system and exactly how they plan to define and identify the mentally ill, and their proposal for what to do with those people.
They've pointed a lot of fingers at mental health but haven't offered any sort of solution.
Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
One hell of a leap you just took there.
-
Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
Agreed.
I'd prefer to let the medical community lead that charge.
-
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
One hell of a leap you just took there.
-
If I may-
I think what he meant is that the NRA would see any type of mental health reform as a means to keep guns out of people's hands so they would fight that. I'm inclined to agree. (Jump in Cysko if I mis-spoke on your behalf)
You were pretty close actually.
Nun, do you think the right in general or the NRA is going to really support any sort of plan to reform mental health? This is a serious question now. They say they want mental health reform but the type of sweeping mental health reforms it would take to make any sort of dent in the homicide rate (no matter how the homicides were committed) would
A: be expensive as hell. The right has shown a reluctance to support spending money on social welfare projects.
And
B: is highly likely to be a catalyst for keeping guns away from a lot more people than right now.
In short the NRA is using mental health reform to take the heat off of guns. Whether that's appropriate or not is up to your interpretation, but really its nearly impossible and would end up costing the good ol American taxpayer a mint.
-
Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
The NRA is a pro 2a group left or right does not matter (plenty of southern dems will tell you as much), it just happens to be that the right lean pro 2a. It is hardly a deflection to note that guns are not responsible for the actions of a few insane individuals and that mental health played a huge part in all of this. and then to say that the NRA would be opposed to any mental health reform because they are republicans because they happen to agree with the R's on the 2a.
you threw all of the information into a pile built a ramp and Evil Knieveled the whole fucking thing.
-
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
The NRA is a pro 2a group left or right does not matter (plenty of southern dems will tell you as much), it just happens to be that the right lean pro 2a. It is hardly a deflection to note that guns are not responsible for the actions of a few insane individuals and that mental health played a huge part in all of this. and then to say that the NRA would be opposed to any mental health reform because they are republicans because they happen to agree with the R's on the 2a.
you threw all of the information into a pile built a ramp and Evil Knieveled the whole fucking thing.
The NRA is a pro 2a group left or right does not matter (plenty of southern dems will tell you as much), it just happens to be that the right lean pro 2a. It is hardly a deflection to note that guns are not responsible for the actions of a few insane individuals and that mental health played a huge part in all of this. and then to say that the NRA would be opposed to any mental health reform because they are republicans because they happen to agree with the R's on the 2a.
you threw all of the information into a pile built a ramp and Evil Knieveled the whole fucking thing.
You made me laugh and that's rare around here. Well done, but its quite true.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login