Background Checks Bill
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I am leary of all of this because the government cant even deliver the mail without screwing up. I have no issue with background checks in theory. I have an issue on how they may or may not be implemented. Also, part of the issue with the mental side is on having states report that info properly so they are part of a background check. But as runboy said, how do you handle issues where you had a rough patch years ago and are no fine, how does that information get scrubbed or removed etc. So I think in theory lots of people support the idea of the checks, they question is how they are implemented.
I am leary of all of this because the government cant even deliver the mail without screwing up. I have no issue with background checks in theory. I have an issue on how they may or may not be implemented. Also, part of the issue with the mental side is on having states report that info properly so they are part of a background check. But as runboy said, how do you handle issues where you had a rough patch years ago and are no fine, how does that information get scrubbed or removed etc. So I think in theory lots of people support the idea of the checks, they question is how they are implemented.
If something like that turns up maybe they send you to a trained psychiatrist to clear you. Does it inconveniance you? Probably. But you shooting somebody is a bit inconvenient for them.
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The standard in some states is involuntary commitment, but that's a pretty low bar. The VT shooter was seriously ill, and was thought to be a danger to himself or others, but not involuntarily committed.
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Id love to hear the NRAs plan for overhauling the mental health system and exactly how they plan to define and identify the mentally ill, and their proposal for what to do with those people.
They've pointed a lot of fingers at mental health but haven't offered any sort of solution.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Background checks, which the republicans oppose,(and they should feel ashamed of that) is a pretty worthless measure that, unfortunately, the NRA is sort of right about. What good is it to background check James Holmes and Jared Loughner and Adam Lanza and Seung-hui cho? They're not criminals...yet.
A mandatory psych eval with the mandatory background check might be somewhat effective. Then the NRA could have their mental health question addressed.
Background checks, which the republicans oppose,(and they should feel ashamed of that) is a pretty worthless measure that, unfortunately, the NRA is sort of right about. What good is it to background check James Holmes and Jared Loughner and Adam Lanza and Seung-hui cho? They're not criminals...yet.
A mandatory psych eval with the mandatory background check might be somewhat effective. Then the NRA could have their mental health question addressed.
Sieg Heil.
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Background checks, which the republicans oppose,(and they should feel ashamed of that) is a pretty worthless measure that, unfortunately, the NRA is sort of right about. What good is it to background check James Holmes and Jared Loughner and Adam Lanza and Seung-hui cho? They're not criminals...yet.
A mandatory psych eval with the mandatory background check might be somewhat effective. Then the NRA could have their mental health question addressed.
Sieg Heil.
Sieg Heil.
And you say woody doesn't contribute. The funny Thing is I agreed with both you and the NRA and you called me a Nazi. Awkward.
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As I understand it, this bill, Pat Toomey and the other guy, are working on, is just background checks by anybody who sells at a
gun show.
There was something else, but I didn't catch what it was, got a phone call...
It -won't- interfere with families' heirlooms being passed to sons and daughters, etc.
I'm fine with that.
BTW, it is a mistake to say the NRA does not support background checks. They don't support universal background checks- because
that is only possible with a gun registration database, etc etc.
The safeguard against abuse of that information, is to require that information to not be tracked or kept after whatever months. That prevents
it from becoming a gigantic personal information database of gun owners, etc etc etc. With safeguards in place, go ahead and expand
background checks to all sellers at gun shows. But eventually, the extremist anti gunners push it way, way past that. Even Biden and Feinstein
have openly admitted it's a toe in the door. Too bad.
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As I understand it, this bill, Pat Toomey and the other guy, are working on, is just background checks by anybody who sells at a
gun show.
There was something else, but I didn't catch what it was, got a phone call...
It -won't- interfere with families' heirlooms being passed to sons and daughters, etc.
I'm fine with that.
BTW, it is a mistake to say the NRA does not support background checks. They don't support universal background checks- because
that is only possible with a gun registration database, etc etc.
The safeguard against abuse of that information, is to require that information to not be tracked or kept after whatever months. That prevents
it from becoming a gigantic personal information database of gun owners, etc etc etc. With safeguards in place, go ahead and expand
background checks to all sellers at gun shows. But eventually, the extremist anti gunners push it way, way past that. Even Biden and Feinstein
have openly admitted it's a toe in the door. Too bad.
As I understand it, this bill, Pat Toomey and the other guy, are working on, is just background checks by anybody who sells at a
gun show.
There was something else, but I didn't catch what it was, got a phone call...
It -won't- interfere with families' heirlooms being passed to sons and daughters, etc.
I'm fine with that.
BTW, it is a mistake to say the NRA does not support background checks. They don't support universal background checks- because
that is only possible with a gun registration database, etc etc.
The safeguard against abuse of that information, is to require that information to not be tracked or kept after whatever months. That prevents
it from becoming a gigantic personal information database of gun owners, etc etc etc. With safeguards in place, go ahead and expand
background checks to all sellers at gun shows. But eventually, the extremist anti gunners push it way, way past that. Even Biden and Feinstein
have openly admitted it's a toe in the door. Too bad.
you do know that authorities can find credit scores and histories from your drivers license...
doesnt seem like much of a stretch for the same authorities to enter gun purchaser data to it as well..
thereby making it a permanent record?
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Okay, some details coming out, and the original story doesn't have it all straight: the record of the checks will be kept by licensed gun dealers, but "The new bill would expand checks to nearly every gun transaction except for those between relatives" does not seem to be true. It seems like there are lots of private gun sales that won't need checks, creating a loophole big enough to drive a truck through: "The amendment to the guns legislation already proposed in the Senate would not cover private transactions between individuals, unless there was advertising or an online service involved."
So, a step forward, but a very small one.
Okay, some details coming out, and the original story doesn't have it all straight: the record of the checks will be kept by licensed gun dealers, but "The new bill would expand checks to nearly every gun transaction except for those between relatives" does not seem to be true. It seems like there are lots of private gun sales that won't need checks, creating a loophole big enough to drive a truck through: "The amendment to the guns legislation already proposed in the Senate would not cover private transactions between individuals, unless there was advertising or an online service involved."
So, a step forward, but a very small one.
This was one of my suggestions several months ago when Cysko & I were going back & forth. Except I wanted online transactions/advertisements included in the BGC's. the online thing keeps people in remote areas from falling victim to price gouging. So I think it should still be a viable means of commerce, but should be included in the BgC's.
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Id love to hear the NRAs plan for overhauling the mental health system and exactly how they plan to define and identify the mentally ill, and their proposal for what to do with those people.
They've pointed a lot of fingers at mental health but haven't offered any sort of solution.
Id love to hear the NRAs plan for overhauling the mental health system and exactly how they plan to define and identify the mentally ill, and their proposal for what to do with those people.
They've pointed a lot of fingers at mental health but haven't offered any sort of solution.
Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
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Id love to hear the NRAs plan for overhauling the mental health system and exactly how they plan to define and identify the mentally ill, and their proposal for what to do with those people.
They've pointed a lot of fingers at mental health but haven't offered any sort of solution.
Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
Early man walked away as modern man took control. Their minds weren't all the same and to conquer was their goal. So He built his great empires and he slaughtered his own kind, and he died a confused man and killed himself in his own mind... -
Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
One hell of a leap you just took there.
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Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
Agreed.
I'd prefer to let the medical community lead that charge.
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It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
One hell of a leap you just took there.
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If I may-
I think what he meant is that the NRA would see any type of mental health reform as a means to keep guns out of people's hands so they would fight that. I'm inclined to agree. (Jump in Cysko if I mis-spoke on your behalf)
You were pretty close actually.
Nun, do you think the right in general or the NRA is going to really support any sort of plan to reform mental health? This is a serious question now. They say they want mental health reform but the type of sweeping mental health reforms it would take to make any sort of dent in the homicide rate (no matter how the homicides were committed) would
A: be expensive as hell. The right has shown a reluctance to support spending money on social welfare projects.
And
B: is highly likely to be a catalyst for keeping guns away from a lot more people than right now.
In short the NRA is using mental health reform to take the heat off of guns. Whether that's appropriate or not is up to your interpretation, but really its nearly impossible and would end up costing the good ol American taxpayer a mint.
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Is the NRA the organization you want overhauling mental health?
No thanks.
They can keep defending my right to own and use a firearm though.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
The NRA is a pro 2a group left or right does not matter (plenty of southern dems will tell you as much), it just happens to be that the right lean pro 2a. It is hardly a deflection to note that guns are not responsible for the actions of a few insane individuals and that mental health played a huge part in all of this. and then to say that the NRA would be opposed to any mental health reform because they are republicans because they happen to agree with the R's on the 2a.
you threw all of the information into a pile built a ramp and Evil Knieveled the whole fucking thing.
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It's just a deflection by them. They're a right wing organization and when and if mental health reform ever comes up you can bet your bottom dollar the right will fight it with all their might.
The NRA is a pro 2a group left or right does not matter (plenty of southern dems will tell you as much), it just happens to be that the right lean pro 2a. It is hardly a deflection to note that guns are not responsible for the actions of a few insane individuals and that mental health played a huge part in all of this. and then to say that the NRA would be opposed to any mental health reform because they are republicans because they happen to agree with the R's on the 2a.
you threw all of the information into a pile built a ramp and Evil Knieveled the whole fucking thing.
The NRA is a pro 2a group left or right does not matter (plenty of southern dems will tell you as much), it just happens to be that the right lean pro 2a. It is hardly a deflection to note that guns are not responsible for the actions of a few insane individuals and that mental health played a huge part in all of this. and then to say that the NRA would be opposed to any mental health reform because they are republicans because they happen to agree with the R's on the 2a.
you threw all of the information into a pile built a ramp and Evil Knieveled the whole fucking thing.
You made me laugh and that's rare around here. Well done, but its quite true.
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you do know that authorities can find credit scores and histories from your drivers license...<br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">doesnt seem like much of a stretch for the same authorities to enter gun purchaser data to it as well.. <br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);"><br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">thereby making it a permanent record? Fairhooker
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Now that you mention it - sure. But it's illegal to mass assemble a database of all gun purchasers and owners.
Manually looking up licenses across the board - doesn't worry me as a possibility though.
Maybe it should.... ?
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"The Manchin-Toomey bill explicitly bans the federal government from creating a registry and treats the misuse of records for the pursue of creating a registry as a felony punishable by 15 years in prison."
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Is there anyone in here who wouldn't pass a background check for whatever reason?
Is there anyone in here who wouldn't pass a background check for whatever reason?
Frankly my friend it doesn't seem to me you would.
From what I gather you favor some pretty narrow restrictions.
Only violent felons and straight jacket wearing lunatics.
I can't imagine that each and every one of us couldn't think of a handful of friends that one would think should not have a weapon.
And are you in favor of denying a basic right to someone who has served his time? Yes or no is okay with me.
Unfortunately the best you can hope to get given those liberal constrictions is a piece of window dressing.
And politicians can plants and Crow about how hard they work to protect the American people.
Show a better question would be not who's in favor of background checks but who's in favor of enforcing?
WSS
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I'd pass a background check just fine, thanks. I have no idea what you're talking about or suggesting. I have no criminal record and no history of mental illness.
As to your question, yes, I'd be in favor of denying a category of violent felons the right to purchase a firearm, especially those who had used guns in the commission of a crime. In my mind, this category would include things like rape, domestic abuse, attempted murder and the like, and not something like simple assault. Just like many states do now, after all. This isn't something new. This is something that is being extended to other gun purchases.
And yes, would be in favor of enforcing those too, obviously.
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