The Next Cam Newton?
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Endymion said:
New ownership, new coaching staff, makes it a pretty safe bet that the Browns want to draft a QB high in the draft, especially since Chud is not enamored with Weeden. Weeden was an aweful pick for you guys last year, just aweful. Kirk Cousins in the 3rd round would've been so much better. I can see you going with Manuel with the 6th pick overall, but I can also see Philly selecting him if Jacksonville takes Smith. You could probably trade down to #11 or #12 and still get Manuel, but Buffalo (and to a lesser extent Arizona) still have an interest in a QB. Picking up a second round pick and still getting Manuel would take some of the sting out wasting a first rounder on Weeden last year.
Personally I don't think there's any QBs that really stand out this year. If my franchise was in dire need for a new signal caller, I wouldn't want them to invest a first rounder in Smith or Manuel. A second rounder for sure, just not a first rounder. If left with the choice between Milliner or Manuel, I'd want Milliner.
Not sure where you are getting your info....Chud likes Weeden very much. Chud has gone to bat against Weeden. It was Lombardi who didn't like Weeden.....and, truthfully, the only reason he doesn't like him is because he had made a snap judgment about him when he was writing articles for NFL.com or whereever he worked for.
Lombardi is too venal to admit a mistake...but Chud seems to have enough influence on Joe Banner to have him tell Lombardi to STFU over Weeden.
That does not mean that Chud does not also like Manuel....but...he has to be of a mind that this team has much bigger needs....like the defensive backfield.
I think if the Browns take a QB it will be a developmental type guy in the late round...6 or 7.
Not sure where you are getting your info....Chud likes Weeden very much. Chud has gone to bat against Weeden. It was Lombardi who didn't like Weeden.....
You mean gone to bat "for" Weeden? Prior to the start of free agency I read an article that Chud wasn't enamored by Weeden that talked about bringing Derek Anderson back to compete for a starters role. I don't read Cleveland's newspapers or haven't seen anything on ESPNs gazillion NFL programs stating Chud's fully behind Weeden either. In general, all coaches prefer to have "their guy" calling the shots and EJ Manuel appears to be similar to the guy Chud had alot of success with.
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Not sure where you are getting your info....Chud likes Weeden very much. Chud has gone to bat against Weeden. It was Lombardi who didn't like Weeden.....
You mean gone to bat "for" Weeden? Prior to the start of free agency I read an article that Chud wasn't enamored by Weeden that talked about bringing Derek Anderson back to compete for a starters role. I don't read Cleveland's newspapers or haven't seen anything on ESPNs gazillion NFL programs stating Chud's fully behind Weeden either. In general, all coaches prefer to have "their guy" calling the shots and EJ Manuel appears to be similar to the guy Chud had alot of success with.
Endymion said:
You mean gone to bat "for" Weeden? Prior to the start of free agency I read an article that Chud wasn't enamored by Weeden that talked about bringing Derek Anderson back to compete for a starters role. I don't read Cleveland's newspapers or haven't seen anything on ESPNs gazillion NFL programs stating Chud's fully behind Weeden either. In general, all coaches prefer to have "their guy" calling the shots and EJ Manuel appears to be similar to the guy Chud had alot of success with.
Yes, I meant to say "went to bat for against Lombardi".
It was when Chud started really studying BW3 and working with him that he started to like what he saw. The DA thing I believe was mere media speculation simply because Chud had worked with DA with 2 different teams....but honestly, that was never going to happen.
Chud says he likes what he sees in Manuel. That does not mean he is going to go gaga for him to get him in the draft.
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Endymion said:
You mean gone to bat "for" Weeden? Prior to the start of free agency I read an article that Chud wasn't enamored by Weeden that talked about bringing Derek Anderson back to compete for a starters role. I don't read Cleveland's newspapers or haven't seen anything on ESPNs gazillion NFL programs stating Chud's fully behind Weeden either. In general, all coaches prefer to have "their guy" calling the shots and EJ Manuel appears to be similar to the guy Chud had alot of success with.
Yes, I meant to say "went to bat for against Lombardi".
It was when Chud started really studying BW3 and working with him that he started to like what he saw. The DA thing I believe was mere media speculation simply because Chud had worked with DA with 2 different teams....but honestly, that was never going to happen.
Chud says he likes what he sees in Manuel. That does not mean he is going to go gaga for him to get him in the draft.
Yes, I meant to say "went to bat for against Lombardi".
It was when Chud started really studying BW3 and working with him that he started to like what he saw. The DA thing I believe was mere media speculation simply because Chud had worked with DA with 2 different teams....but honestly, that was never going to happen.
Chud says he likes what he sees in Manuel. That does not mean he is going to go gaga for him to get him in the draft.
Liking Weeden also doesn't mean he won't draft Manuel. It all comes down to who they think gives us a better chance to win.
If its Weeden, they'll stay with him. If its Campbell, they'll use him. If its Manuel, they'll pick him. You can bet that Weeden being a first round pick last season won't have much to do with it at all.
New regime, new players. I just hope they don't select a QB solely to distance themselves from the past regime.
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EJ Manuel isn't a running QB.
All black and athletic QBs aren't running QBs...
Look at their college stats their final seasons.
EJ had 103 attempts for 310 yards and 4 TDs
Newton had 264 attempts for 1473 yards and 20 TDs
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EJ Manuel isn't a running QB.
All black and athletic QBs aren't running QBs...
Look at their college stats their final seasons.
EJ had 103 attempts for 310 yards and 4 TDs
Newton had 264 attempts for 1473 yards and 20 TDs
EJ Manuel isn't a running QB.
All black and athletic QBs aren't running QBs...
Look at their college stats their final seasons.
EJ had 103 attempts for 310 yards and 4 TDs
Newton had 264 attempts for 1473 yards and 20 TDs
Exactly. He's a QB who can run, not a RB who can throw. I like the comparison to Ben Roethlisberger. Manuel claims to use his legs in order to extend the play, not necessarily to MAKE the play.
I think I've been pretty vocal in my support for Manuel from the get-go, but that doesn't mean I think we should take him at 6. If we can successfully complete a trade that enables us to move back only a couple spots and pick up a second rounder in the process, I think Manuel would be a great second round pick.
Honestly, I think he'll go in the first.
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Is everybody going insane. TCPO have you lost your fucking mind. If we draft a QB with 6th pick, or even trade down and pick one later in the first, I'm fucking done. There are NO great QBs in this draft, get an awesome player with the sixth pick and don't fuck this up!!!
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Is everybody going insane. TCPO have you lost your fucking mind. If we draft a QB with 6th pick, or even trade down and pick one later in the first, I'm fucking done. There are NO great QBs in this draft, get an awesome player with the sixth pick and don't fuck this up!!!
Is everybody going insane. TCPO have you lost your fucking mind. If we draft a QB with 6th pick, or even trade down and pick one later in the first, I'm fucking done. There are NO great QBs in this draft, get an awesome player with the sixth pick and don't fuck this up!!!
It makes no sense to draft a QB high this year. Weeden is built for Norv's offense, he is going to get a shot at it. Campbell is solid #2. This regime didn't draft Weeds, so they get a pass if he fails and they can draft their guy next year when, presumably, there is a better crop to pick from.
We took a first round QB last year and he fits our new system better than he did the old one. It's just not happeneing.
Zombo
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Is everybody going insane. TCPO have you lost your fucking mind. If we draft a QB with 6th pick, or even trade down and pick one later in the first, I'm fucking done. There are NO great QBs in this draft, get an awesome player with the sixth pick and don't fuck this up!!!
Is everybody going insane. TCPO have you lost your fucking mind. If we draft a QB with 6th pick, or even trade down and pick one later in the first, I'm fucking done. There are NO great QBs in this draft, get an awesome player with the sixth pick and don't fuck this up!!!
Internet rage. Preventing people from comprehending since 1999.
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I know I have said it before, but I wouldn't be suprised at all if we take a qb high in this draft. QB is the most important position on the team. The Browns have spent a whole lot of time doing their due dilligence on these top Qb's. When was the last time you remember our front office doing this much work evaluating QB's? If they really feel like one of them better than Weeden then they will take them. Turner knows Qb's better than any of us do, and Chud would likely defer to his opinion or at least give it serious weight. That is just logical. Those of you who were good at Geometry should get that. If you were good at Algebra you likely never will.
Those who say no way, or they would be DONE brace yourself just in case they love one of these guys. I personally cannot see how taking one of these guys is a bad move if they work out. I am going to trust our FO and coaches to work together as a team (like they said) to build this team this year and if they screw it up then lets all be pissed. I have seen nothing thus far that makes me think that they will screw up. Cam Newton was a good pick, Rivers was a pretty good pick. Drew Brees (OC-Turner year he was drafted). Coached up Troy Aikman in Dallas. And While Ken Dorsey didn't work out in the pro's Chud coached him to a pretty damn good college career in Miami. So why all the hubub about them being stupid if they do this.
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I want to know how people can say anyone who was down on Weeden made a mistake?
People are acting like this guy solidified himself as our franchise QB.
If we take Manuel at 6, it's not the ideal pick but honestly I wouldn't be mad. I'd rather take Milliner or a pass rusher.
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No way we pass on a CB in the 1st. If we do trade down and get a 2nd E.J. will be gone by then. We need our CB and FS before we even think of a QB this year. Im am thinking a QB in the 4th, maybe Glennon from nc state,http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/mike-glennon?id=2539275,.
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No way, not in the first or second at least. Crumbles under pressure and can't handle a decent D. Look at the Florida game.
He still accumulated 3 TD's that game, which is more than any QB we currently have can say.
At this point, I just want a guy that can score. If it Weeden, great. If its Campbell, great. If its Manuel, Smith, Bray, Nassib, etc...great.
Let's just generate some motherfucking offense already.
He still accumulated 3 TD's that game, which is more than any QB we currently have can say.
At this point, I just want a guy that can score. If it Weeden, great. If its Campbell, great. If its Manuel, Smith, Bray, Nassib, etc...great.
Let's just generate some motherfucking offense already.
can we call you PoG2?
uggh. fuck every QB in this draft.
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He still accumulated 3 TD's that game, which is more than any QB we currently have can say.
At this point, I just want a guy that can score. If it Weeden, great. If its Campbell, great. If its Manuel, Smith, Bray, Nassib, etc...great.
Let's just generate some motherfucking offense already.
can we call you PoG2?
uggh. fuck every QB in this draft.
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No way, not in the first or second at least. Crumbles under pressure and can't handle a decent D. Look at the Florida game.
He still accumulated 3 TD's that game, which is more than any QB we currently have can say.
At this point, I just want a guy that can score. If it Weeden, great. If its Campbell, great. If its Manuel, Smith, Bray, Nassib, etc...great.
Let's just generate some motherfucking offense already.
He still accumulated 3 TD's that game, which is more than any QB we currently have can say.
At this point, I just want a guy that can score. If it Weeden, great. If its Campbell, great. If its Manuel, Smith, Bray, Nassib, etc...great.
Let's just generate some motherfucking offense already.
And 3 ints. I know one game doesn't define a player but he's not worth a high draft pick.
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I'm telling you, this guy has been hyped up solely because of size and arm strength. I usually don't speak on players but as stated I've seen the guy play several times live. He's just not that good overall. He makes terrible decisions, puts short/medium range passes all over the place, and really underwhelms on uneven deep ball passes. I'm not saying Weeden is the guy but he isn't either.
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I hate to keep saying this....but I think the Browns need to follow the Pittsburgh Steelers model of the early to mid-2000s...i.e. you plug in the "franchise QB" as the LAST component of your championship team.
The 2005 Steeler team that won the title was built first and foremost upon their defense....then their running game and offensive line, then their receiving corps...then finally with a QB.
Do you think the 2004 team with BR as a rookie that went 15-1 and the title the following year in 2005 with BR as a sophomore QB won because BR was so good? Frak no. Tommy Maddox or Charlie Batch could have probably led those teams.
2008 was a different matter...BR was the major component in that teams success....but not the earlier years.
Right here, right now the Browns need to build their defense and offensive lines and run game and WR/TE corps.
If BW3 becomes successful with those top components around him...wonderful.
If not, then he can become Tommy Maddox or Charlie Batch....and in a year or two maybe the Browns will find their version of BR.
Browns need a couple of killer DBs, maybe another LB, maybe an OG...and depth all along the way. We are invested with 2 QBs now, leave them be and build the rest of the team up. When its winning time...and that may be very soon...the Browns will be in position to plug in a QB.
I want my Sundae built first with the ice cream, hot fudge, whipped cream and nuts put on first.....then we can put the cherry on top.
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I'm telling you, this guy has been hyped up solely because of size and arm strength. I usually don't speak on players but as stated I've seen the guy play several times live. He's just not that good overall. He makes terrible decisions, puts short/medium range passes all over the place, and really underwhelms on uneven deep ball passes. I'm not saying Weeden is the guy but he isn't either.
I'm telling you, this guy has been hyped up solely because of size and arm strength. I usually don't speak on players but as stated I've seen the guy play several times live. He's just not that good overall. He makes terrible decisions, puts short/medium range passes all over the place, and really underwhelms on uneven deep ball passes. I'm not saying Weeden is the guy but he isn't either.
It's funny because if you were making this post about Weeden you'd be spot on as well.
Everyone was big on his size/arm strength as well and we saw all year how Weeden was inconsistent on every type of pass. Most of the time when it comes to QB prospects not named John Elway or Andrew Luck draft hype will be based off of the tools that they possess not necessarily what they are good/bad at passing wise because everyone thinks they can fix a QB's problems.
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hey TCPO i like what i see with manuel, but that's not the point. we have a QB that we reached for in the first round last year with an 'nfl' arm. manuel might be better, but we're not picking him (or as i should say...we better not pick him).
holmgren fucked us good with his wonderful knowledge of QBs. we HAVE to see what weeden can do this year or campbell considering which QB the coaches think we have a better chance to win with.
everyone that has half a brain knows we have to address our defensive backfield first and foremost. CB and S should be our first 2 picks, hands down. if we trade down we can still get an elite corner and with the trade down pick a safety in the 2nd. now if ej manuel is there in the 4th round (cuz we should be picking OL in the 3rd) then by all means pick him.
all these QBs in this draft are getting overrated and over hyped and most if were in a good class of a QB draft wouldn't even be considered until the 3rd round.
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hey TCPO i like what i see with manuel, but that's not the point. we have a QB that we reached for in the first round last year with an 'nfl' arm. manuel might be better, but we're not picking him (or as i should say...we better not pick him).
holmgren fucked us good with his wonderful knowledge of QBs. we HAVE to see what weeden can do this year or campbell considering which QB the coaches think we have a better chance to win with.
everyone that has half a brain knows we have to address our defensive backfield first and foremost. CB and S should be our first 2 picks, hands down. if we trade down we can still get an elite corner and with the trade down pick a safety in the 2nd. now if ej manuel is there in the 4th round (cuz we should be picking OL in the 3rd) then by all means pick him.
all these QBs in this draft are getting overrated and over hyped and most if were in a good class of a QB draft wouldn't even be considered until the 3rd round.
I understand what you're saying. It would be a waste, given what happened in last years draft.hey TCPO i like what i see with manuel, but that's not the point. we have a QB that we reached for in the first round last year with an 'nfl' arm. manuel might be better, but we're not picking him (or as i should say...we better not pick him).
holmgren fucked us good with his wonderful knowledge of QBs. we HAVE to see what weeden can do this year or campbell considering which QB the coaches think we have a better chance to win with.
everyone that has half a brain knows we have to address our defensive backfield first and foremost. CB and S should be our first 2 picks, hands down. if we trade down we can still get an elite corner and with the trade down pick a safety in the 2nd. now if ej manuel is there in the 4th round (cuz we should be picking OL in the 3rd) then by all means pick him.
all these QBs in this draft are getting overrated and over hyped and most if were in a good class of a QB draft wouldn't even be considered until the 3rd round.
What I am saying is that, if Manuel (or any other QB) gives us a better chance to win than the guys left on the board, it would be dumb not to pick him.
Just because we picked a QB last season (who many, including you IIRC, claimed to be a terrible wasted pick) doesn't mean we don't pick a QB this year, if the latter makes us a better team.
It's going to come down to whether or not Chud thinks that Manuel (or anyone else) is heads and shoulders above Weeden. Weeden's draft status will have nothing to do with it whatsoever.
This is a new regime, looking to do whatever gives us the best chance to win from now moving forward.
Every year we seem to say that no QB in this year's class can hold a jock of those from the year before. Every year, there's been a surprise.
When all is said and done, we're going to have two-three very solid starting QB's come from this year's draft. This isn't RG3/Luck by any means. But that doesn't mean these guys won't be good.
Personally, I'd love to see us trade down twice in the first round and pick up either two second rounders or a second, third and fourth. Then I'd love to see us take Rhodes around the 20th pick, and Swearinger or Rambo in the 2nd.
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I think Rhodes will be gone. As another person who watched E.J. play the last 2 seasons, will give some input. For all the weapons he had around him, he was not that great. Im not saying he will be bad, but I think there is just to much hype around the guy. If he sits for 2 years at best, and can get a grasp of the Offense he very well could be ok, but he will not be the option QB that Newton is. Also, who even says the Chud is going to want an option type Qb, Turner has never had one to coach, so Im pretty sure they want a cannon of an arm and a smart QB. You either have mobility or you dont. Its not required to be a mobile QB, look at the greats in the League now, Brees, The Mannings, Brady. I know you cant compare future hall of famers to what we have but there is a pattern of greatness to them. Great leaders and perfectionists to their offensive schemes. We need to build our Defense, something that is feared, shit something that you draft in fantasy football.
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