We Turned Down Offer To Trade Down With Rams
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Who takes a DE/OLB type that didn't have great stats as a college player? The answer of course is the Cleveland Browns. Now I hope Mingo works out but who knows? I would have rather they took Milliner the best cornerback in the draft. So settle down OK? We could have traded down too. Who takes a DE/OLB type that didn't have great stats as a college player? The answer of course is the Cleveland Browns. Now I hope Mingo works out but who knows? I would have rather they took Milliner the best cornerback in the draft. So settle down OK? We could have traded down too.Milliner is going to be a good NFL player. We are unsure about Mingo Wingo. But are stats always a key factor? Maybe not. Tehre are several top quality NFL DEs who didn't put up big stats in college and the reverse is true, too. Jarvis Jones led the nation in sacks last year, but I predict he won't turn out to be a first round quality player in the NFL.
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On the radio this morning Lombardi was doing an interview in which he stated "I felt that we could get better value out of our 4th and th round draft pick assets by trading them for higher round picks next year than by selecting anyone that was available there this year". He said that is the "long term view" that he is taking. He also said that he didn't think anyone available at those points were "the right fit" for the Browns such that they want to utilize those assets on current picks.
Well.....maybe. Maybe you can get something better a year from now than what you can get now. Maybe the "right fit" was not there. Maybe you are taking the long term view. Maybe you are just bullshitting us and yourselve with those arguments...which sound disingenuous.
The optimist in me says if you can get a higher round pick for a lower round pick, then obviously do it. Trading the 14th pick in the 4th round (after bess trade) for the steelers' 3rd rounder next year, which will most likely be middling again, plus then a 5th rounder for the colts' 4th rounder next year, we're basically turning a 5th rounder in to a 3rd rounder.
The cynic in me is saying that Banner/Lombardi are basically going to say 'don't judge us until after next season when we have 10+ of our guys in the team' - basically taking advantage of the eternal optimism and loyalty of browns fans everywhere in order to get a free year.
It's basically impossible to judge them on talent evaluation this year; unless Mingo is a complete bust, everything will more or less work out as expected. McFadden will be solid if unspectacular and maybe one or two of the 6/7 round guys will contribute. If McFadden plays at pro bowl level, or the late picks actually contribute, like Billy Winn, we can have cause for optimism. Until then, it's just too early to comment.
The optimist in me says if you can get a higher round pick for a lower round pick, then obviously do it. Trading the 14th pick in the 4th round (after bess trade) for the steelers' 3rd rounder next year, which will most likely be middling again, plus then a 5th rounder for the colts' 4th rounder next year, we're basically turning a 5th rounder in to a 3rd rounder.
The cynic in me is saying that Banner/Lombardi are basically going to say 'don't judge us until after next season when we have 10+ of our guys in the team' - basically taking advantage of the eternal optimism and loyalty of browns fans everywhere in order to get a free year.
It's basically impossible to judge them on talent evaluation this year; unless Mingo is a complete bust, everything will more or less work out as expected. McFadden will be solid if unspectacular and maybe one or two of the 6/7 round guys will contribute. If McFadden plays at pro bowl level, or the late picks actually contribute, like Billy Winn, we can have cause for optimism. Until then, it's just too early to comment.
It's interesting that Lombardi's "long term view" and belief this draft wasn't so hot is an opinion not shared by most of the good teams inthe league, such as the Steelers, Ravens, Begnals and 49ers. I guess Lombardi thinks he is smarter than all the GMs of those top franchises. Not! All that happened to the Browns this off season is that their talent level fell even further behind the top teams in the league. It's quite sad.
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The optimist in me says if you can get a higher round pick for a lower round pick, then obviously do it. Trading the 14th pick in the 4th round (after bess trade) for the steelers' 3rd rounder next year, which will most likely be middling again, plus then a 5th rounder for the colts' 4th rounder next year, we're basically turning a 5th rounder in to a 3rd rounder.
The cynic in me is saying that Banner/Lombardi are basically going to say 'don't judge us until after next season when we have 10+ of our guys in the team' - basically taking advantage of the eternal optimism and loyalty of browns fans everywhere in order to get a free year.
It's basically impossible to judge them on talent evaluation this year; unless Mingo is a complete bust, everything will more or less work out as expected. McFadden will be solid if unspectacular and maybe one or two of the 6/7 round guys will contribute. If McFadden plays at pro bowl level, or the late picks actually contribute, like Billy Winn, we can have cause for optimism. Until then, it's just too early to comment.
It's interesting that Lombardi's "long term view" and belief this draft wasn't so hot is an opinion not shared by most of the good teams inthe league, such as the Steelers, Ravens, Begnals and 49ers. I guess Lombardi thinks he is smarter than all the GMs of those top franchises. Not! All that happened to the Browns this off season is that their talent level fell even further behind the top teams in the league. It's quite sad.
Skeptical2013 said:
It's interesting that Lombardi's "long term view" and belief this draft wasn't so hot is an opinion not shared by most of the good teams inthe league, such as the Steelers, Ravens, Begnals and 49ers. I guess Lombardi thinks he is smarter than all the GMs of those top franchises. Not! All that happened to the Browns this off season is that their talent level fell even further behind the top teams in the league. It's quite sad.
Yep, that's the interesting thing, and how we will ultimately judge this draft. If we end up with pro bowlers from the third/fourth rounds here that we passed on then yes we can criticise Lombardi. But on the other hand if we get pro bowlers out of next year's picks, or even bundle them up to move up for a Teddy Twatwater or someone then yes, we can say he did well.
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The optimist in me says if you can get a higher round pick for a lower round pick, then obviously do it. Trading the 14th pick in the 4th round (after bess trade) for the steelers' 3rd rounder next year, which will most likely be middling again, plus then a 5th rounder for the colts' 4th rounder next year, we're basically turning a 5th rounder in to a 3rd rounder.
The cynic in me is saying that Banner/Lombardi are basically going to say 'don't judge us until after next season when we have 10+ of our guys in the team' - basically taking advantage of the eternal optimism and loyalty of browns fans everywhere in order to get a free year.
It's basically impossible to judge them on talent evaluation this year; unless Mingo is a complete bust, everything will more or less work out as expected. McFadden will be solid if unspectacular and maybe one or two of the 6/7 round guys will contribute. If McFadden plays at pro bowl level, or the late picks actually contribute, like Billy Winn, we can have cause for optimism. Until then, it's just too early to comment.
It's interesting that Lombardi's "long term view" and belief this draft wasn't so hot is an opinion not shared by most of the good teams inthe league, such as the Steelers, Ravens, Begnals and 49ers. I guess Lombardi thinks he is smarter than all the GMs of those top franchises. Not! All that happened to the Browns this off season is that their talent level fell even further behind the top teams in the league. It's quite sad.
Skeptical2013 said:
It's interesting that Lombardi's "long term view" and belief this draft wasn't so hot is an opinion not shared by most of the good teams inthe league, such as the Steelers, Ravens, Begnals and 49ers. I guess Lombardi thinks he is smarter than all the GMs of those top franchises. Not! All that happened to the Browns this off season is that their talent level fell even further behind the top teams in the league. It's quite sad.
I think this year was a record low for trading for future draft picks, not because teams didn't want to give up their picks this year for pick next year, but because teams we not willing to give next years picks in order to pick again this year. This year was a historically TERRBLE draft class. Light on the first round, deep in the 2nd and 3rd, and then dropped way off in the 4th-7th. Why pick the guys we did in the 6th and 7th then? Well for one we were lucky to trade for the picks that we did get. Secondly we grabbed a guy with 2nd/3rd round value (the actual good talent value section of this years draft) who fell because of injury, then we pick two boom or bust Div II prospects. So we actually managed to make good value on our last three picks.
This whole Lombardi sceeming to make himself look better shit is old. He's good, he's not good. Fuck it. Won't know until we see what the guys can do on the field. I would be listening to the same shit if he (and by he I mean him and fucking Banner cause no one seems to remember he holds equal share in making decisions) had traded down in the 1st and didn't trade our 4th and 5th round picks. Everyone would be bitching about how he let their personal favorite 1st round slip away, and how he picks who they didn't want in the 2nd, 4th, and 5th.
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A brief recap of this argument, as its being played out in multiple threads:
Tim Couch Pulls Out: This draft sucked, we could have done better. Mingo is Vernon Gholston 2.0 and our best pick was a 3rd round CB who we could have gotten in the 4th or maybe even 5th. We could have traded back, still got Mingo, added a second round pick, and added a FS or G that would instantly start for us. Way to fuck up, Lombardi.
Everyone else: YOU ARE WRONG AND SO ARE THE ANALYSTS. YOU'LL SEE, YOU'LL ALL SEE. MINGO PLAYED IN THE SEC, DUH. PEOPLE JUST HATE THE BROWNS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T THE STEELERS IT'S NOT FAIR
Miktoxic: While this draft wasn't all bad, it could have been better. I think some of our draft picks have upside, but we'll see.
Everyone else: FUCK YOU, WHO DID YOU WANT GENO SMITH?! YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT DICK! SEC FOOTBALL RULZ AND MINGO HAS THE WORD BARK IN HIS NAME I ALREADY ORDERED HIS JERSEY
BSipeBomber: Here is an article that explains how the Browns fumbled a trade back scenario that could have improved their draft.
Everybody else: THE BROWNS ARE GENIUSES FUCK YOU WE HAD THE BEST DRAFT OF HISTORY
PoeticG: Trent Richardson
Gipper: I'm sorry but you are wrong and here is why- I don't agree with you.
PoeticG: Honey Badger
Everybody else: FUCK TYRANN MATHIEU PUR 7th ROUND PICK WILL BE AN ALL PRO
A brief recap of this argument, as its being played out in multiple threads:
Tim Couch Pulls Out: This draft sucked, we could have done better. Mingo is Vernon Gholston 2.0 and our best pick was a 3rd round CB who we could have gotten in the 4th or maybe even 5th. We could have traded back, still got Mingo, added a second round pick, and added a FS or G that would instantly start for us. Way to fuck up, Lombardi.
Everyone else: YOU ARE WRONG AND SO ARE THE ANALYSTS. YOU'LL SEE, YOU'LL ALL SEE. MINGO PLAYED IN THE SEC, DUH. PEOPLE JUST HATE THE BROWNS BECAUSE THEY AREN'T THE STEELERS IT'S NOT FAIR
Miktoxic: While this draft wasn't all bad, it could have been better. I think some of our draft picks have upside, but we'll see.
Everyone else: FUCK YOU, WHO DID YOU WANT GENO SMITH?! YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT DICK! SEC FOOTBALL RULZ AND MINGO HAS THE WORD BARK IN HIS NAME I ALREADY ORDERED HIS JERSEY
BSipeBomber: Here is an article that explains how the Browns fumbled a trade back scenario that could have improved their draft.
Everybody else: THE BROWNS ARE GENIUSES FUCK YOU WE HAD THE BEST DRAFT OF HISTORY
PoeticG: Trent Richardson
Gipper: I'm sorry but you are wrong and here is why- I don't agree with you.
PoeticG: Honey Badger
Everybody else: FUCK TYRANN MATHIEU PUR 7th ROUND PICK WILL BE AN ALL PRO
That was some good shit right there TCPO LMAO!!........
The thing that put it over the top was PoG Trent Richardson
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Endymion said:
Most of the fanbase really likes Jarvis Jones, as he fills a supposedly huge need. I'm not so crazy about him, but I hope he works out. A slow guy with back problems sounds like a guy we just cut. Linebackers typically don't start in their first year of LeBeau's system and taking a linebacker first overall to sit a year is silly. I really like Arthur Brown and they could've had him in the second round, instead. Pittsburgh needs offensive talent, Eifert, Patterson or Hunter would've been a better first round pickup and we could've got another pick trading back. I'm not shocked you traded with us. We gave up a third round pick on the expectation we would get a 3rd rounder for Mike Wallace next year. If 2013 is a down year as I kinda fear, you'll have a high third round pick for a 4th rounder this year...there's no way your franchise could've turned down an offer like that. I don't know if we really got value out of that trade pick as I don't know much about the safety they picked up. Our safety is kinda short and we've been burned by safety's labeled as "hard hitters" previously under Corbert. If he works out and eventually starts then the trade would've been worth it.
If you watch Jones on the field he is anything but slow. Ignore that 40 time at the combine. What's bad about Jones is that he was AWOL in a number of Georgia games and he's not going to be able to block effectively due to his build.
Skeptical2013 said:
If you watch Jones on the field he is anything but slow. Ignore that 40 time at the combine. What's bad about Jones is that he was AWOL in a number of Georgia games and he's not going to be able to block effectively due to his build.
Its probably a good thing that a DE/OLB doesn't ever have to block lol
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Skeptical2013 said:
It's interesting that Lombardi's "long term view" and belief this draft wasn't so hot is an opinion not shared by most of the good teams inthe league, such as the Steelers, Ravens, Begnals and 49ers. I guess Lombardi thinks he is smarter than all the GMs of those top franchises. Not! All that happened to the Browns this off season is that their talent level fell even further behind the top teams in the league. It's quite sad.
Yep, that's the interesting thing, and how we will ultimately judge this draft. If we end up with pro bowlers from the third/fourth rounds here that we passed on then yes we can criticise Lombardi. But on the other hand if we get pro bowlers out of next year's picks, or even bundle them up to move up for a Teddy Twatwater or someone then yes, we can say he did well.
Yep, that's the interesting thing, and how we will ultimately judge this draft. If we end up with pro bowlers from the third/fourth rounds here that we passed on then yes we can criticise Lombardi. But on the other hand if we get pro bowlers out of next year's picks, or even bundle them up to move up for a Teddy Twatwater or someone then yes, we can say he did well.
What you said in your last sentence is IMO the exact reason they made those two trades. If they don't like the progression that Weeden makes in year two, they will have two more picks that they can package together to try and move up ( possibly all the way up to the #1pick) and get THEIR QB. And if that's not what happens, well we get a 3rd from a 4th and a 4th from a 5th......WIN WIN either way for us. Most people are just disappointed that we didn't try and fill every hole or need this year with a 4th and 5th round guys. Its a no brainer for me.....I dig it
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Skeptical2013 said:
It's interesting that Lombardi's "long term view" and belief this draft wasn't so hot is an opinion not shared by most of the good teams inthe league, such as the Steelers, Ravens, Begnals and 49ers. I guess Lombardi thinks he is smarter than all the GMs of those top franchises. Not! All that happened to the Browns this off season is that their talent level fell even further behind the top teams in the league. It's quite sad.
I think this year was a record low for trading for future draft picks, not because teams didn't want to give up their picks this year for pick next year, but because teams we not willing to give next years picks in order to pick again this year. This year was a historically TERRBLE draft class. Light on the first round, deep in the 2nd and 3rd, and then dropped way off in the 4th-7th. Why pick the guys we did in the 6th and 7th then? Well for one we were lucky to trade for the picks that we did get. Secondly we grabbed a guy with 2nd/3rd round value (the actual good talent value section of this years draft) who fell because of injury, then we pick two boom or bust Div II prospects. So we actually managed to make good value on our last three picks.
This whole Lombardi sceeming to make himself look better shit is old. He's good, he's not good. Fuck it. Won't know until we see what the guys can do on the field. I would be listening to the same shit if he (and by he I mean him and fucking Banner cause no one seems to remember he holds equal share in making decisions) had traded down in the 1st and didn't trade our 4th and 5th round picks. Everyone would be bitching about how he let their personal favorite 1st round slip away, and how he picks who they didn't want in the 2nd, 4th, and 5th.
I think this year was a record low for trading for future draft picks, not because teams didn't want to give up their picks this year for pick next year, but because teams we not willing to give next years picks in order to pick again this year. This year was a historically TERRBLE draft class. Light on the first round, deep in the 2nd and 3rd, and then dropped way off in the 4th-7th. Why pick the guys we did in the 6th and 7th then? Well for one we were lucky to trade for the picks that we did get. Secondly we grabbed a guy with 2nd/3rd round value (the actual good talent value section of this years draft) who fell because of injury, then we pick two boom or bust Div II prospects. So we actually managed to make good value on our last three picks.
This whole Lombardi sceeming to make himself look better shit is old. He's good, he's not good. Fuck it. Won't know until we see what the guys can do on the field. I would be listening to the same shit if he (and by he I mean him and fucking Banner cause no one seems to remember he holds equal share in making decisions) had traded down in the 1st and didn't trade our 4th and 5th round picks. Everyone would be bitching about how he let their personal favorite 1st round slip away, and how he picks who they didn't want in the 2nd, 4th, and 5th.
A number of experts said that after the first round this was one of the deepest drafts in years. And I agree.
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I think this year was a record low for trading for future draft picks, not because teams didn't want to give up their picks this year for pick next year, but because teams we not willing to give next years picks in order to pick again this year. This year was a historically TERRBLE draft class. Light on the first round, deep in the 2nd and 3rd, and then dropped way off in the 4th-7th. Why pick the guys we did in the 6th and 7th then? Well for one we were lucky to trade for the picks that we did get. Secondly we grabbed a guy with 2nd/3rd round value (the actual good talent value section of this years draft) who fell because of injury, then we pick two boom or bust Div II prospects. So we actually managed to make good value on our last three picks.
This whole Lombardi sceeming to make himself look better shit is old. He's good, he's not good. Fuck it. Won't know until we see what the guys can do on the field. I would be listening to the same shit if he (and by he I mean him and fucking Banner cause no one seems to remember he holds equal share in making decisions) had traded down in the 1st and didn't trade our 4th and 5th round picks. Everyone would be bitching about how he let their personal favorite 1st round slip away, and how he picks who they didn't want in the 2nd, 4th, and 5th.
A number of experts said that after the first round this was one of the deepest drafts in years. And I agree.
Skeptical2013 said:
A number of experts said that after the first round this was one of the deepest drafts in years. And I agree.
As do I. I think we'll see a number of third and even fourth round guys start at some point this season.
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I think the 2nd and 3rd round ran a bit deep, but after that the draft left a lot to be desired. And are you saying that there will be starters from the 4th round and later or good quality starters. huge difference between someone earning a spot and someone getting thrown in to play. I see a lof of the former happening, and it is what the Bowns were doing the past 2 drafts. Taking someone late and throwing him in as a starter or prominent rotation guy.
Next years draft is going to be much better talent wise, I think we wisely taded those picks. I undestand people have a different opinion on the matter, but I would ather have those picks to either use as ammo to move up in a draft with much more talent, or to take a player with better skill or potential one whole round sooner where we would have used them this year.
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I think the 2nd and 3rd round ran a bit deep, but after that the draft left a lot to be desired. And are you saying that there will be starters from the 4th round and later or good quality starters. huge difference between someone earning a spot and someone getting thrown in to play. I see a lof of the former happening, and it is what the Bowns were doing the past 2 drafts. Taking someone late and throwing him in as a starter or prominent rotation guy.
Next years draft is going to be much better talent wise, I think we wisely taded those picks. I undestand people have a different opinion on the matter, but I would ather have those picks to either use as ammo to move up in a draft with much more talent, or to take a player with better skill or potential one whole round sooner where we would have used them this year.
I think the 2nd and 3rd round ran a bit deep, but after that the draft left a lot to be desired. And are you saying that there will be starters from the 4th round and later or good quality starters. huge difference between someone earning a spot and someone getting thrown in to play. I see a lof of the former happening, and it is what the Bowns were doing the past 2 drafts. Taking someone late and throwing him in as a starter or prominent rotation guy.
Next years draft is going to be much better talent wise, I think we wisely taded those picks. I undestand people have a different opinion on the matter, but I would ather have those picks to either use as ammo to move up in a draft with much more talent, or to take a player with better skill or potential one whole round sooner where we would have used them this year.
I think it is impossible for a layman to say "this draft is really deep with talent, or that draft is top heavy in the first round but light in talent after that, or like this year they have said "this draft does not have a lot of up front talent but is deep in the later round".
I mean, who the hell really knows
Sometimes you cannot tell until years and years later.
If you saw that ESPN show on the "Elway to Marino" draft, 1983 had like 6-8 Hall of Famers just in that first round.
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Skeptical2013 said:
A number of experts said that after the first round this was one of the deepest drafts in years. And I agree.
As do I. I think we'll see a number of third and even fourth round guys start at some point this season.
As do I. I think we'll see a number of third and even fourth round guys start at some point this season.
The nightmare all of us will have in the coming months is Shamarko Thomas, the tough S the Steelers took in the trade with the Browns, intercepting a Weeden pass in the final minute as the Browns drive for the winning TD. You just know it's going to happen!
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I think the 2nd and 3rd round ran a bit deep, but after that the draft left a lot to be desired. And are you saying that there will be starters from the 4th round and later or good quality starters. huge difference between someone earning a spot and someone getting thrown in to play. I see a lof of the former happening, and it is what the Bowns were doing the past 2 drafts. Taking someone late and throwing him in as a starter or prominent rotation guy.
Next years draft is going to be much better talent wise, I think we wisely taded those picks. I undestand people have a different opinion on the matter, but I would ather have those picks to either use as ammo to move up in a draft with much more talent, or to take a player with better skill or potential one whole round sooner where we would have used them this year.
I think it is impossible for a layman to say "this draft is really deep with talent, or that draft is top heavy in the first round but light in talent after that, or like this year they have said "this draft does not have a lot of up front talent but is deep in the later round".
I mean, who the hell really knows
Sometimes you cannot tell until years and years later.
If you saw that ESPN show on the "Elway to Marino" draft, 1983 had like 6-8 Hall of Famers just in that first round.
I think it is impossible for a layman to say "this draft is really deep with talent, or that draft is top heavy in the first round but light in talent after that, or like this year they have said "this draft does not have a lot of up front talent but is deep in the later round".
I mean, who the hell really knows
Sometimes you cannot tell until years and years later.
If you saw that ESPN show on the "Elway to Marino" draft, 1983 had like 6-8 Hall of Famers just in that first round.
It was a deep draft and there are at least two scouts on my primary steeler board that preached it all offseason.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
I think it is impossible for a layman to say "this draft is really deep with talent, or that draft is top heavy in the first round but light in talent after that, or like this year they have said "this draft does not have a lot of up front talent but is deep in the later round".
I mean, who the hell really knows
Sometimes you cannot tell until years and years later.
If you saw that ESPN show on the "Elway to Marino" draft, 1983 had like 6-8 Hall of Famers just in that first round.
It was a deep draft and there are at least two scouts on my primary steeler board that preached it all offseason.
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I think it is impossible for a layman to say "this draft is really deep with talent, or that draft is top heavy in the first round but light in talent after that, or like this year they have said "this draft does not have a lot of up front talent but is deep in the later round".
I mean, who the hell really knows
Sometimes you cannot tell until years and years later.
If you saw that ESPN show on the "Elway to Marino" draft, 1983 had like 6-8 Hall of Famers just in that first round.
It was a deep draft and there are at least two scouts on my primary steeler board that preached it all offseason.
It was a deep draft and there are at least two scouts on my primary steeler board that preached it all offseason.
Well, that is what I heard as well, but then I heard others contradict that. So the "experts can't agree", so how can we layman tell?
Answer: we don't have to. We just sit back and figure it out a few years later.
And one teams "deep draft" may be another teams piece of garbage draft.
Take for instance the 1974 draft. A real suck job of a draft, right? Yes, if you were a Browns fan. You got the privilege of seeing these names called:
Billy Corbett, Mark Ilgenfritz, Billy Pritchett, Bob Herrick, Gerry Sullivan, Don Scott, Mike Peustow, Tom Gooden, Ron McNeil, Mike Seifert, Bob Hunt, Ransom Terrell, Preston Anderson, Carlton Buchanan.
A bunch of freaking household names? Hardly.
But, if you were a Steeler fan, lets see, you got to hear the names of Lynn Swann, Jack Lambert, John Stallworth, Mike Webster.
Ya follow my point? One guys deep draft is another guys deep pile of shit.
Good stuff.
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