Losses Vs. Gains Comparison
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Lets Compare how the Browns have done so far in the Draft and in Free Agency Compared to how what they lost in Free Agency. And tell us whether or not in your opinion the Browns did an upgrade or downgrade:
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?:
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?:
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?:
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?:
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?:
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?:
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?:
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?:
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?:
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:?
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
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Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?: B+
Have to like that we have gotten younger there. In the 3-4 I think Desmond was a hell of a pick up. Armonty is not yet gradable
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?: another B+
We once again replaced age with younger guys. We also got bigger and much needed nastiness.
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?: B-
I kinda wish we kept Sheldon around, yes he is getting older, but he played decent last year. He could have been another mentor for Mcfadden. As for Young and Ventrone, I do not think they are starting material. Gipson out played them I think.
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?: B-
Colt did not get a fair shot last year, but he also will not be a distraction next year. Campbell is a journeyman and very serviceable backup. Its also nice for 1 guy to be the starter for more then 1 year in a row.
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?: solid A
Lewis may not see many touches per say, but he is a special teams demon. He will replace Josh on returns, and share the duties with Travis.
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?: A+ for me here
No Brainier here for me not bringing back MOMASS, his is to much a liability for himself, best of luck to him. Josh has not really become the WR we thought he might, but he was a foot warrior and gave his best while he was here on the field and off of it. Getting Bess and Wilson, both proven vets are going to be tremendous for our young guys.
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?: C
I think keeping Watson would have been better for Weeden, he had a comfort with him. The 2 we got in FA are ok, Barnidge knows Chuds Offense, so that may help out.
Cameron is in for a big year.
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?: B one year more of experience for the right side helps.
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?: didnt know we had a full back. thought we had a guy who couldnt block or catch.
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?: fucking pissed about this man, to me its an F. why not just pay the man who can make kicks in snow.
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:? no grade, dont know to much about Lanning.
Gip, this was a great topic. Some good debates to start for sure.
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
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I think the Browns will probably have to try to pick up another FA QB. They have on the roster only Weeden/Campbell/Lewis.
Usually for training camp purposes you need 4-5, even if you end up cutting one. Here is a list of veteran FA QBs still out there unsigned:
Tim Tebow
Vince Young
Charlie Batch
Byron Leftwich
Tyler Thigpen
Pat White
Trent Edwards
JaMarcus Russell
Matt Leinert
Jordan Palmer
Any interest in any of these for camp fodder?
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Lets Compare how the Browns have done so far in the Draft and in Free Agency Compared to how what they lost in Free Agency. And tell us whether or not in your opinion the Browns did an upgrade or downgrade:
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?:
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?:
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?:
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?:
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?:
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?:
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?:
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?:
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?:
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:?
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
Lets Compare how the Browns have done so far in the Draft and in Free Agency Compared to how what they lost in Free Agency. And tell us whether or not in your opinion the Browns did an upgrade or downgrade:
My own grades
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?: Going to the 3-4 meant deleting these two. I take it they were not "3-4 Material" The Bryant Boys should at least be pliable to play the 3-4.
Give it a C+ simply because Armonty is such a big risk.
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?: Give it an A-. The 3 guys we had times were done here. They were barely serviceable. The new guys have much greater potential, but of course must deliver.
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?: Owens and Barnes seem like backups/STers. Which is OK. The key is McFadden being able to replace Brown and Slaughter able to replace Young. No one thinks Brown and Young were all that good this past year......but, to us fans, the new kids are a complete unknown.
Give it a B- at best. At least it is new blood.
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?: Going with a C+. I expect Campbell to be better in the Chud/Norv system, but I don't know that for a fact. A minor upgrade is the best I can give it right now. Johnson was a non-entity....4th stringer.
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?: Has to be a solid B or B+ if Lewis even sees the field...which Jackson didn't.
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?: Give it a B. Ignoring his Special Teams play, Cribbs did give some production in the passing game. MoMass lost his MoJo. So that move alone gives this a thumbs up grade....yet, still must reserve complete applause until we see how these guys play it out.
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?: C. Because I am not absolutely positive that the new guys will be more productive than the old guys. This comes from just not knowing mush about them. Watson was a steady veteran if nothing else. Can these guys be that and more? The jury is out, to me.
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?: B+. What the heck, adding depth where you lose nothing is a good move even if the guy goes to the taxi squad. If he turns out to be a manster, all the better.
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?: B. Hell, I never even knew Eddie Williams was on the team until I heard he was a free agent. No loss there to my mind. However, the Browns, to me still need a Fullback. Marecic is still the only designate FB on the team, even after the UDFA signings. Is Smelley going to play there? Didn't Chud and Norv always have good FBs on their teams
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?: D...as I can't imagine this to end up as an upgrade. May turn into a C or C+ if the guy can become steady/reliable.
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:? C....as it is a punter and I don't know a thing about this guy...except to say I have heard no one compare him to Ray Guy, this is the best I can Give.
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
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I think the Browns will probably have to try to pick up another FA QB. They have on the roster only Weeden/Campbell/Lewis.
Usually for training camp purposes you need 4-5, even if you end up cutting one. Here is a list of veteran FA QBs still out there unsigned:
Tim Tebow
Vince Young
Charlie Batch
Byron Leftwich
Tyler Thigpen
Pat White
Trent Edwards
JaMarcus Russell
Matt Leinert
Jordan Palmer
Any interest in any of these for camp fodder?
I think the Browns will probably have to try to pick up another FA QB. They have on the roster only Weeden/Campbell/Lewis.
Usually for training camp purposes you need 4-5, even if you end up cutting one. Here is a list of veteran FA QBs still out there unsigned:
Tim Tebow
Vince Young
Charlie Batch
Byron Leftwich
Tyler Thigpen
Pat White
Trent Edwards
JaMarcus Russell
Matt Leinert
Jordan Palmer
Any interest in any of these for camp fodder?
Out of the left over guys Vince Young would be the only other guy. The dude was such a damn winner when he came into the league, but god only knows what the hell happened to him. he just gave up. That is the knock of the guy, no heart I guess. There is also know one one that list that would actually challenge Weeden, so I do think we got it right in getting Campbell. Gip, I also seen something on the Espn rumors we looking at getting Hoyer from the Texans. I know its a rumor in all but I think he would be a better option then that list also.
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Lets Compare how the Browns have done so far in the Draft and in Free Agency Compared to how what they lost in Free Agency. And tell us whether or not in your opinion the Browns did an upgrade or downgrade:
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?:
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?:
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?:
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?:
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?:
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?:
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?:
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?:
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?:
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:?
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
Lets Compare how the Browns have done so far in the Draft and in Free Agency Compared to how what they lost in Free Agency. And tell us whether or not in your opinion the Browns did an upgrade or downgrade:
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?:
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?:
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?:
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?:
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?:
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?:
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?:
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?:
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?:
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:?
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
One guy on the NFL Network called Armonty an "animal" who will be a big-time player in the NFL. Should have included the FAs because guys like Faulk and Gilkey could be major contributors in 2013 and add quality depth to the OL.
Browns have substantially upgraded the front seven on defense, give them a B, but the secondary is only slightly improved and I'd give the work of Lombardi in this area an F. I don't see Salughter contributing much the first half of the season and Owens and Barnes are stiffs, so if Gipson and McFadden get hurt this team is in really big trouble. When AFC QBs start winging one bomb after another over the front 7 against the weak Browns secondary, I hope all the eyes in the stadium look up and stare at Lombadomy for not making the trade with St. Louis and adding some quality secondary talent.
Tight end is the other area I'd give the Browns an F. We're moving to a new offense where the TE is important. So let's go out and get a bum, Davis, who they call "stone hands" in Chicago and booed him out of town. Why in the world couldn't this team, with all its cap money, go out early in free agency and add a decent TE like the guy who was at Oakland? It's beyond belief. Why has nearly every GM the Browns have hired been so incompetent? It's truly is remarkable. I guess it's prerequisite that to become a Browns GM you have to be a stupid moron!
And then we let Phil Dawson get away. He'll probably win the Super Bowl for San Fran and his replacement in Cleveland will be a dud who loses several games. Incredible. Browns get a F at placeicker, too.
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I think the Browns will probably have to try to pick up another FA QB. They have on the roster only Weeden/Campbell/Lewis.
Usually for training camp purposes you need 4-5, even if you end up cutting one. Here is a list of veteran FA QBs still out there unsigned:
Tim Tebow
Vince Young
Charlie Batch
Byron Leftwich
Tyler Thigpen
Pat White
Trent Edwards
JaMarcus Russell
Matt Leinert
Jordan Palmer
Any interest in any of these for camp fodder?
Out of the left over guys Vince Young would be the only other guy. The dude was such a damn winner when he came into the league, but god only knows what the hell happened to him. he just gave up. That is the knock of the guy, no heart I guess. There is also know one one that list that would actually challenge Weeden, so I do think we got it right in getting Campbell. Gip, I also seen something on the Espn rumors we looking at getting Hoyer from the Texans. I know its a rumor in all but I think he would be a better option then that list also.
Out of the left over guys Vince Young would be the only other guy. The dude was such a damn winner when he came into the league, but god only knows what the hell happened to him. he just gave up. That is the knock of the guy, no heart I guess. There is also know one one that list that would actually challenge Weeden, so I do think we got it right in getting Campbell. Gip, I also seen something on the Espn rumors we looking at getting Hoyer from the Texans. I know its a rumor in all but I think he would be a better option then that list also.
I heard that at first they were interested, then not interested. So, I guess for now, it is not.
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Lets Compare how the Browns have done so far in the Draft and in Free Agency Compared to how what they lost in Free Agency. And tell us whether or not in your opinion the Browns did an upgrade or downgrade:
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?:
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?:
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?:
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?:
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?:
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?:
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?:
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?:
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?:
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:?
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
One guy on the NFL Network called Armonty an "animal" who will be a big-time player in the NFL. Should have included the FAs because guys like Faulk and Gilkey could be major contributors in 2013 and add quality depth to the OL.
Browns have substantially upgraded the front seven on defense, give them a B, but the secondary is only slightly improved and I'd give the work of Lombardi in this area an F. I don't see Salughter contributing much the first half of the season and Owens and Barnes are stiffs, so if Gipson and McFadden get hurt this team is in really big trouble. When AFC QBs start winging one bomb after another over the front 7 against the weak Browns secondary, I hope all the eyes in the stadium look up and stare at Lombadomy for not making the trade with St. Louis and adding some quality secondary talent.
Tight end is the other area I'd give the Browns an F. We're moving to a new offense where the TE is important. So let's go out and get a bum, Davis, who they call "stone hands" in Chicago and booed him out of town. Why in the world couldn't this team, with all its cap money, go out early in free agency and add a decent TE like the guy who was at Oakland? It's beyond belief. Why has nearly every GM the Browns have hired been so incompetent? It's truly is remarkable. I guess it's prerequisite that to become a Browns GM you have to be a stupid moron!
And then we let Phil Dawson get away. He'll probably win the Super Bowl for San Fran and his replacement in Cleveland will be a dud who loses several games. Incredible. Browns get a F at placeicker, too.
Skeptical2013 said:
And then we let Phil Dawson get away. He'll probably win the Super Bowl for San Fran and his replacement in Cleveland will be a dud who loses several games. Incredible. Browns get a F at placeicker, too.
How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
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Lets Compare how the Browns have done so far in the Draft and in Free Agency Compared to how what they lost in Free Agency. And tell us whether or not in your opinion the Browns did an upgrade or downgrade:
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?:
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?:
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?:
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?:
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?:
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?:
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?:
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?:
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?:
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:?
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?: Upgrade. The guy that they brought in are big strong young dude and should hold their own. What they lost was experience in the veterans.
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?: Upgrade. I always liked Maiava but the other two were kinda slow and often injured. I'd add Sheard to the list as he's new to the position and that will be a strength to the team.
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?: Upgrade. If they didn't add anybody this would be addition by subtraction. Seriously anything is an upgrade over what we replaced. Sheldon, though he tried hard was just too old and kept getting beat. Ventrone was good on Special teams, that's it.
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:Downgrade. Colt is young and had plenty of room to grow. Campbell is older than Weeden and already Weeden is too old. Colt was the best option going forward.
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?: No change. Jackson was injured his first year and contributed little last year, Dion Lewis although fast and elusive, he comes with baggage.
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?: I'm not sure on this one. Cribbs was comparable to Bess, he was just never used to his full potential in Cleveland(seeing a pattern?). I don't know enough about Nelson to make a judgement on him but Mo was a stand up player and caught the ball well. I like the Bess pickup, he's a heck of a pass catcher, maybe that rubs off on Little?
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?: Downgrade. Watson was very good at what he did. His leadership and abilities will be missed. But Smith was really not all that good. I'd almost add Cameron to the list of new additions as we've yet to really see him actively participate in the game. He'll get a real chance this year and it should let us know just how good he'll be in the future. He's got the intangibles to be special.
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?: These guys will improve as the play calling improves and the line is used more effectively to suit their strengths. That can only be counted as an upgrade.
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?: The FB role needs to be addressed before the season starts unless the guys slotted in the position step up and earn their keep. So far downgrade.
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?: This is a downgrade. Should have just franchised Phil. We have the money, no doubt about it.
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:? Who is Spencer Lanning? Downgrade. Hodges was pretty effective in the punting game but I'm hardly going to cry about a punter unless this dude pulls a whats-his-face.
We took a couple steps forward but also managed to slip back in other areas. Overall I'd say though that with the new coaches and additions that we've improved in a measureable increment. The Colt, Dawson, Cribbs, Watson and Maiava moves bother me but other than that I'd say this offseason was a positive move in the right direction. If Colt had been retained to compete, at least until proven a failure. If Dawson had been franchised. And, if Cribbs and Watson had been resigned I would have given the offseason an overall A. But with these five players in mind I can give it no better than a C+.
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Lets Compare how the Browns have done so far in the Draft and in Free Agency Compared to how what they lost in Free Agency. And tell us whether or not in your opinion the Browns did an upgrade or downgrade:
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?:
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?:
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?:
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?:
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?:
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?:
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?:
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?:
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?:
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:?
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
One guy on the NFL Network called Armonty an "animal" who will be a big-time player in the NFL. Should have included the FAs because guys like Faulk and Gilkey could be major contributors in 2013 and add quality depth to the OL.
Browns have substantially upgraded the front seven on defense, give them a B, but the secondary is only slightly improved and I'd give the work of Lombardi in this area an F. I don't see Salughter contributing much the first half of the season and Owens and Barnes are stiffs, so if Gipson and McFadden get hurt this team is in really big trouble. When AFC QBs start winging one bomb after another over the front 7 against the weak Browns secondary, I hope all the eyes in the stadium look up and stare at Lombadomy for not making the trade with St. Louis and adding some quality secondary talent.
Tight end is the other area I'd give the Browns an F. We're moving to a new offense where the TE is important. So let's go out and get a bum, Davis, who they call "stone hands" in Chicago and booed him out of town. Why in the world couldn't this team, with all its cap money, go out early in free agency and add a decent TE like the guy who was at Oakland? It's beyond belief. Why has nearly every GM the Browns have hired been so incompetent? It's truly is remarkable. I guess it's prerequisite that to become a Browns GM you have to be a stupid moron!
And then we let Phil Dawson get away. He'll probably win the Super Bowl for San Fran and his replacement in Cleveland will be a dud who loses several games. Incredible. Browns get a F at placeicker, too.
Skeptical2013 said:
Browns have substantially upgraded the front seven on defense, give them a B, but the secondary is only slightly improved and I'd give the work of Lombardi in this area an F.
Tight end is the other area I'd give the Browns an F. We're moving to a new offense where the TE is important. So let's go out and get a bum, Davis, who they call "stone hands" in Chicago and booed him out of town. Why in the world couldn't this team, with all its cap money, go out early in free agency and add a decent TE like the guy who was at Oakland? It's beyond belief. Why has nearly every GM the Browns have hired been so incompetent? It's truly is remarkable. I guess it's prerequisite that to become a Browns GM you have to be a stupid moron!
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
#Justsayin' -
Skeptical2013 said:
Browns have substantially upgraded the front seven on defense, give them a B, but the secondary is only slightly improved and I'd give the work of Lombardi in this area an F.
Tight end is the other area I'd give the Browns an F. We're moving to a new offense where the TE is important. So let's go out and get a bum, Davis, who they call "stone hands" in Chicago and booed him out of town. Why in the world couldn't this team, with all its cap money, go out early in free agency and add a decent TE like the guy who was at Oakland? It's beyond belief. Why has nearly every GM the Browns have hired been so incompetent? It's truly is remarkable. I guess it's prerequisite that to become a Browns GM you have to be a stupid moron!
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
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To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place.
You must have been living in La La Land for the past 15 years.
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For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place.
You must have been living in La La Land for the past 15 years.
You must have been living in La La Land for the past 15 years.
It is not an issue of how well the team has played. It is an issue of how dedicated, enthusiastic, and loyal your customers are and how much you are appreciated by them.
Ask Brian Sipe.
Ask Bernie Kosar.
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To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
I love your passion, and hell ya if I was a free agent I'd go play for the Browns... for free (or close to it)...
but let's be honest, these guys are young and rich... they want to get drunk, laid, and see a show on their days off. PLUS, these guys want to win championships. What would make them want to come here? Do you really think most of these guys care about the fan base as much as Kosar and Sipe did? This is a new era of egotism and self-centeredness where the lifestyle is more important than game or the fans...
#Justsayin' -
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
That's a Cleveland bias, plain and simple.
Cleveland is not a favorable destination for free agents, no matter what anybody says. Until we start winning, nothing will change in that regard.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Skeptical2013 said:
And then we let Phil Dawson get away. He'll probably win the Super Bowl for San Fran and his replacement in Cleveland will be a dud who loses several games. Incredible. Browns get a F at placeicker, too.
How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
-
Skeptical2013 said:
Browns have substantially upgraded the front seven on defense, give them a B, but the secondary is only slightly improved and I'd give the work of Lombardi in this area an F.
Tight end is the other area I'd give the Browns an F. We're moving to a new offense where the TE is important. So let's go out and get a bum, Davis, who they call "stone hands" in Chicago and booed him out of town. Why in the world couldn't this team, with all its cap money, go out early in free agency and add a decent TE like the guy who was at Oakland? It's beyond belief. Why has nearly every GM the Browns have hired been so incompetent? It's truly is remarkable. I guess it's prerequisite that to become a Browns GM you have to be a stupid moron!
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
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How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
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How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
Skeptical2013 said:
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
Objectively wrong.
You have zero proof Dawson had any intent to sign a contract put in front of him by Cleveland.
It's clear exactly what happened -- Dawson told Banner he wasn't resigning, and Banner had zero leverage because Dawson had been franchised for the last 2 years.
Skeptical2013 said:
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE.
They did. The only CB target worth pursuing was Grimes, and they got a TE.
You make the assumption that every FA wanted to come to Cleveland -- and you're wrong. Grimes chose Miami, and a couple of the TE targets chose elsewhere. That in no way makes Banner a loser -- but making the assumption that everyone wanted to come to Cleveland makes you a gratuitously dramatic ex-girlfriend.
Skeptical2013 said:
The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight endwhen you consider there were good quality athletes there
The signing of Frostee Rucker shows the stupidity of getting people just because they're available.. he sucked, period. And if the draft is quality every year, those picks will generate better athletes next year than they would have this year.
They got a pick out of trading McCoy -- that's serious competance that Heckert couldn't pull off. They got starter-quality athletes with every pick this year -- something Heckert couldn't pull off, and few FO's ever do.
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We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
I love your passion, and hell ya if I was a free agent I'd go play for the Browns... for free (or close to it)...
but let's be honest, these guys are young and rich... they want to get drunk, laid, and see a show on their days off. PLUS, these guys want to win championships. What would make them want to come here? Do you really think most of these guys care about the fan base as much as Kosar and Sipe did? This is a new era of egotism and self-centeredness where the lifestyle is more important than game or the fans...
I love your passion, and hell ya if I was a free agent I'd go play for the Browns... for free (or close to it)...
but let's be honest, these guys are young and rich... they want to get drunk, laid, and see a show on their days off. PLUS, these guys want to win championships. What would make them want to come here? Do you really think most of these guys care about the fan base as much as Kosar and Sipe did? This is a new era of egotism and self-centeredness where the lifestyle is more important than game or the fans...
Are you saying that playing the game and working at their craft is secondary to them? If so, they should not be playing.
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