Losses Vs. Gains Comparison
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Lets Compare how the Browns have done so far in the Draft and in Free Agency Compared to how what they lost in Free Agency. And tell us whether or not in your opinion the Browns did an upgrade or downgrade:
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?:
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?:
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?:
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?:
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?:
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?:
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?:
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?:
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?:
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:?
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?: Upgrade. The guy that they brought in are big strong young dude and should hold their own. What they lost was experience in the veterans.
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?: Upgrade. I always liked Maiava but the other two were kinda slow and often injured. I'd add Sheard to the list as he's new to the position and that will be a strength to the team.
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?: Upgrade. If they didn't add anybody this would be addition by subtraction. Seriously anything is an upgrade over what we replaced. Sheldon, though he tried hard was just too old and kept getting beat. Ventrone was good on Special teams, that's it.
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:Downgrade. Colt is young and had plenty of room to grow. Campbell is older than Weeden and already Weeden is too old. Colt was the best option going forward.
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?: No change. Jackson was injured his first year and contributed little last year, Dion Lewis although fast and elusive, he comes with baggage.
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?: I'm not sure on this one. Cribbs was comparable to Bess, he was just never used to his full potential in Cleveland(seeing a pattern?). I don't know enough about Nelson to make a judgement on him but Mo was a stand up player and caught the ball well. I like the Bess pickup, he's a heck of a pass catcher, maybe that rubs off on Little?
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?: Downgrade. Watson was very good at what he did. His leadership and abilities will be missed. But Smith was really not all that good. I'd almost add Cameron to the list of new additions as we've yet to really see him actively participate in the game. He'll get a real chance this year and it should let us know just how good he'll be in the future. He's got the intangibles to be special.
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?: These guys will improve as the play calling improves and the line is used more effectively to suit their strengths. That can only be counted as an upgrade.
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?: The FB role needs to be addressed before the season starts unless the guys slotted in the position step up and earn their keep. So far downgrade.
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?: This is a downgrade. Should have just franchised Phil. We have the money, no doubt about it.
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:? Who is Spencer Lanning? Downgrade. Hodges was pretty effective in the punting game but I'm hardly going to cry about a punter unless this dude pulls a whats-his-face.
We took a couple steps forward but also managed to slip back in other areas. Overall I'd say though that with the new coaches and additions that we've improved in a measureable increment. The Colt, Dawson, Cribbs, Watson and Maiava moves bother me but other than that I'd say this offseason was a positive move in the right direction. If Colt had been retained to compete, at least until proven a failure. If Dawson had been franchised. And, if Cribbs and Watson had been resigned I would have given the offseason an overall A. But with these five players in mind I can give it no better than a C+.
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Lets Compare how the Browns have done so far in the Draft and in Free Agency Compared to how what they lost in Free Agency. And tell us whether or not in your opinion the Browns did an upgrade or downgrade:
Defensive Line:
Desmond Bryant and Armonty Bryant replacing:
Frostee Rucker and Juqua Parker
Grade?:
Linebackers:
Paul Kruger, Quentin Groves and Barkevious Mingo replacing:
Chris Gocong, Scott Fujita, and Kailuka Maiava
Grade?:
Defensive Backfield:
Chris Owens, Kevin Barnes, Leon McFadden, and Jamoris Slaughter replacing:
Sheldon Brown, Ray Ventrone, Usama Young
Grade?:
Quarterback:
Jason Campbell replacing:
Colt McCoy, Josh Johnson
Grade?:
Running Back:
Dion Lewis replacing:
Brandon Jackson
Grade?:
Wide Receivers:
David Nelson and Davone Bess replacing:
Mohammed Massaquoi and Josh Cribbs
Grade?:
Tight Ends:
Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge replacing:
Ben Watson and Alex Smith
Grade?:
Offensive Line:
Garrett Gilkey replacing:
no one. Browns had no losses on O-Line that I am aware of
Grade?:
Fullback
No One replacing:
Eddie Williams (3rd string?)
Grade?:
Placekicker:
Shayne Grhaham and Brian Bogotay replacing:
Phil Dawson
Grade?:
Punter:
Spencer Lanning replacing:
Reggie Hodges
Grade:?
I did not include the UDFAs in this list....though certainly some of them may contribute in the future.
One guy on the NFL Network called Armonty an "animal" who will be a big-time player in the NFL. Should have included the FAs because guys like Faulk and Gilkey could be major contributors in 2013 and add quality depth to the OL.
Browns have substantially upgraded the front seven on defense, give them a B, but the secondary is only slightly improved and I'd give the work of Lombardi in this area an F. I don't see Salughter contributing much the first half of the season and Owens and Barnes are stiffs, so if Gipson and McFadden get hurt this team is in really big trouble. When AFC QBs start winging one bomb after another over the front 7 against the weak Browns secondary, I hope all the eyes in the stadium look up and stare at Lombadomy for not making the trade with St. Louis and adding some quality secondary talent.
Tight end is the other area I'd give the Browns an F. We're moving to a new offense where the TE is important. So let's go out and get a bum, Davis, who they call "stone hands" in Chicago and booed him out of town. Why in the world couldn't this team, with all its cap money, go out early in free agency and add a decent TE like the guy who was at Oakland? It's beyond belief. Why has nearly every GM the Browns have hired been so incompetent? It's truly is remarkable. I guess it's prerequisite that to become a Browns GM you have to be a stupid moron!
And then we let Phil Dawson get away. He'll probably win the Super Bowl for San Fran and his replacement in Cleveland will be a dud who loses several games. Incredible. Browns get a F at placeicker, too.
Skeptical2013 said:
Browns have substantially upgraded the front seven on defense, give them a B, but the secondary is only slightly improved and I'd give the work of Lombardi in this area an F.
Tight end is the other area I'd give the Browns an F. We're moving to a new offense where the TE is important. So let's go out and get a bum, Davis, who they call "stone hands" in Chicago and booed him out of town. Why in the world couldn't this team, with all its cap money, go out early in free agency and add a decent TE like the guy who was at Oakland? It's beyond belief. Why has nearly every GM the Browns have hired been so incompetent? It's truly is remarkable. I guess it's prerequisite that to become a Browns GM you have to be a stupid moron!
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
#Justsayin' -
Skeptical2013 said:
Browns have substantially upgraded the front seven on defense, give them a B, but the secondary is only slightly improved and I'd give the work of Lombardi in this area an F.
Tight end is the other area I'd give the Browns an F. We're moving to a new offense where the TE is important. So let's go out and get a bum, Davis, who they call "stone hands" in Chicago and booed him out of town. Why in the world couldn't this team, with all its cap money, go out early in free agency and add a decent TE like the guy who was at Oakland? It's beyond belief. Why has nearly every GM the Browns have hired been so incompetent? It's truly is remarkable. I guess it's prerequisite that to become a Browns GM you have to be a stupid moron!
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
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To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place.
You must have been living in La La Land for the past 15 years.
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For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place.
You must have been living in La La Land for the past 15 years.
You must have been living in La La Land for the past 15 years.
It is not an issue of how well the team has played. It is an issue of how dedicated, enthusiastic, and loyal your customers are and how much you are appreciated by them.
Ask Brian Sipe.
Ask Bernie Kosar.
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To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
I love your passion, and hell ya if I was a free agent I'd go play for the Browns... for free (or close to it)...
but let's be honest, these guys are young and rich... they want to get drunk, laid, and see a show on their days off. PLUS, these guys want to win championships. What would make them want to come here? Do you really think most of these guys care about the fan base as much as Kosar and Sipe did? This is a new era of egotism and self-centeredness where the lifestyle is more important than game or the fans...
#Justsayin' -
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
That's a Cleveland bias, plain and simple.
Cleveland is not a favorable destination for free agents, no matter what anybody says. Until we start winning, nothing will change in that regard.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Skeptical2013 said:
And then we let Phil Dawson get away. He'll probably win the Super Bowl for San Fran and his replacement in Cleveland will be a dud who loses several games. Incredible. Browns get a F at placeicker, too.
How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
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Skeptical2013 said:
Browns have substantially upgraded the front seven on defense, give them a B, but the secondary is only slightly improved and I'd give the work of Lombardi in this area an F.
Tight end is the other area I'd give the Browns an F. We're moving to a new offense where the TE is important. So let's go out and get a bum, Davis, who they call "stone hands" in Chicago and booed him out of town. Why in the world couldn't this team, with all its cap money, go out early in free agency and add a decent TE like the guy who was at Oakland? It's beyond belief. Why has nearly every GM the Browns have hired been so incompetent? It's truly is remarkable. I guess it's prerequisite that to become a Browns GM you have to be a stupid moron!
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
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How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
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How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
Skeptical2013 said:
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
Objectively wrong.
You have zero proof Dawson had any intent to sign a contract put in front of him by Cleveland.
It's clear exactly what happened -- Dawson told Banner he wasn't resigning, and Banner had zero leverage because Dawson had been franchised for the last 2 years.
Skeptical2013 said:
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE.
They did. The only CB target worth pursuing was Grimes, and they got a TE.
You make the assumption that every FA wanted to come to Cleveland -- and you're wrong. Grimes chose Miami, and a couple of the TE targets chose elsewhere. That in no way makes Banner a loser -- but making the assumption that everyone wanted to come to Cleveland makes you a gratuitously dramatic ex-girlfriend.
Skeptical2013 said:
The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight endwhen you consider there were good quality athletes there
The signing of Frostee Rucker shows the stupidity of getting people just because they're available.. he sucked, period. And if the draft is quality every year, those picks will generate better athletes next year than they would have this year.
They got a pick out of trading McCoy -- that's serious competance that Heckert couldn't pull off. They got starter-quality athletes with every pick this year -- something Heckert couldn't pull off, and few FO's ever do.
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We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
I love your passion, and hell ya if I was a free agent I'd go play for the Browns... for free (or close to it)...
but let's be honest, these guys are young and rich... they want to get drunk, laid, and see a show on their days off. PLUS, these guys want to win championships. What would make them want to come here? Do you really think most of these guys care about the fan base as much as Kosar and Sipe did? This is a new era of egotism and self-centeredness where the lifestyle is more important than game or the fans...
I love your passion, and hell ya if I was a free agent I'd go play for the Browns... for free (or close to it)...
but let's be honest, these guys are young and rich... they want to get drunk, laid, and see a show on their days off. PLUS, these guys want to win championships. What would make them want to come here? Do you really think most of these guys care about the fan base as much as Kosar and Sipe did? This is a new era of egotism and self-centeredness where the lifestyle is more important than game or the fans...
Are you saying that playing the game and working at their craft is secondary to them? If so, they should not be playing.
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We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
That's a Cleveland bias, plain and simple.
Cleveland is not a favorable destination for free agents, no matter what anybody says. Until we start winning, nothing will change in that regard.
That's a Cleveland bias, plain and simple.
Cleveland is not a favorable destination for free agents, no matter what anybody says. Until we start winning, nothing will change in that regard.
Really? Then why did THE top rated FA linebacker come to Cleveland?
Why did THE top rated FA defensive lineman come to Cleveland.
The Best free agents out there came here.....so that disproves your "not a favorable destination" claim.
I also think a large part of it is that these BEST free agents see that it is highly probable that the Browns will start winning soon.
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To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
Skeptical2013 said:
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
Let's be clear that one thing is involved here: Lombardi has a failed track record at selecting talent.
So, yes, the choices he has made and the moves he has made do NOT inspire confidence....in anyone perhaps except he and Banner.
But, maybe they will work out.
And, FYI the Browns DID go out and get a couple of tight ends in FA. Would you rather have Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge than Alex Smith and Ben Watson? I personally don't know.
There are names still out there: Dallas Clark, K2, Chris Cooley, Randy McMichael, Ed Dickson, Will Heller, Kevin Boss.
You want one of them?
Or are you willing to go into the season with Cameron, Davis, Barnidge, Dan Gronkowski, Brad Smelley, and Garrett Hoskins...and Travis Tannahill .
....apparently the Browns are.
And, at cornerback, the Browns did pick up 2 players in FA, and one in the draft. So, you have Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Wade, Bademosi, Barnes, Owens, Prince Miller, and Josh Aubrey.
You want another FA?
Know who the best names out there are?:
Chris Gamble, but he is retiring
Quentin Jammer
....and Sheldon Brown
...and Nate Clements.
all older than what the Browns want to go for.
The Browns GOT people. Maybe they just ain't the ones you wanted...but they were the ones they wanted.
-
I love your passion, and hell ya if I was a free agent I'd go play for the Browns... for free (or close to it)...
but let's be honest, these guys are young and rich... they want to get drunk, laid, and see a show on their days off. PLUS, these guys want to win championships. What would make them want to come here? Do you really think most of these guys care about the fan base as much as Kosar and Sipe did? This is a new era of egotism and self-centeredness where the lifestyle is more important than game or the fans...
Are you saying that playing the game and working at their craft is secondary to them? If so, they should not be playing.
Are you saying that playing the game and working at their craft is secondary to them? If so, they should not be playing.
For many of these guys, yes.
-
Skeptical2013 said:
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
Let's be clear that one thing is involved here: Lombardi has a failed track record at selecting talent.
So, yes, the choices he has made and the moves he has made do NOT inspire confidence....in anyone perhaps except he and Banner.
But, maybe they will work out.
And, FYI the Browns DID go out and get a couple of tight ends in FA. Would you rather have Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge than Alex Smith and Ben Watson? I personally don't know.
There are names still out there: Dallas Clark, K2, Chris Cooley, Randy McMichael, Ed Dickson, Will Heller, Kevin Boss.
You want one of them?
Or are you willing to go into the season with Cameron, Davis, Barnidge, Dan Gronkowski, Brad Smelley, and Garrett Hoskins...and Travis Tannahill .
....apparently the Browns are.
And, at cornerback, the Browns did pick up 2 players in FA, and one in the draft. So, you have Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Wade, Bademosi, Barnes, Owens, Prince Miller, and Josh Aubrey.
You want another FA?
Know who the best names out there are?:
Chris Gamble, but he is retiring
Quentin Jammer
....and Sheldon Brown
...and Nate Clements.
all older than what the Browns want to go for.
The Browns GOT people. Maybe they just ain't the ones you wanted...but they were the ones they wanted.
Let's be clear that one thing is involved here: Lombardi has a failed track record at selecting talent.
So, yes, the choices he has made and the moves he has made do NOT inspire confidence....in anyone perhaps except he and Banner.
But, maybe they will work out.
And, FYI the Browns DID go out and get a couple of tight ends in FA. Would you rather have Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge than Alex Smith and Ben Watson? I personally don't know.
There are names still out there: Dallas Clark, K2, Chris Cooley, Randy McMichael, Ed Dickson, Will Heller, Kevin Boss.
You want one of them?
Or are you willing to go into the season with Cameron, Davis, Barnidge, Dan Gronkowski, Brad Smelley, and Garrett Hoskins...and Travis Tannahill .
....apparently the Browns are.
And, at cornerback, the Browns did pick up 2 players in FA, and one in the draft. So, you have Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Wade, Bademosi, Barnes, Owens, Prince Miller, and Josh Aubrey.
You want another FA?
Know who the best names out there are?:
Chris Gamble, but he is retiring
Quentin Jammer
....and Sheldon Brown
...and Nate Clements.
all older than what the Browns want to go for.
The Browns GOT people. Maybe they just ain't the ones you wanted...but they were the ones they wanted.
There were several decent DBs and TEs the Browns could have signed with some effort and some money at the begining of the FA period, like DB Sean Smith. And, now, I don't think Woodson is signed -- why not bring him in to help mentor the kids and provide some depth at S/CB?
You think the three TEs the Browns have area any good? They are horrific!!! Cameron was a very bad pick and the two FAs are zeroes when it comes to catching the ball. Davis was kicked out of Chicago he is so bad as a receiver. The fact that Weeden does not have a receiving option at TE in this new offense is a complete and total disaster!
-
Let's be clear that one thing is involved here: Lombardi has a failed track record at selecting talent.
So, yes, the choices he has made and the moves he has made do NOT inspire confidence....in anyone perhaps except he and Banner.
But, maybe they will work out.
And, FYI the Browns DID go out and get a couple of tight ends in FA. Would you rather have Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge than Alex Smith and Ben Watson? I personally don't know.
There are names still out there: Dallas Clark, K2, Chris Cooley, Randy McMichael, Ed Dickson, Will Heller, Kevin Boss.
You want one of them?
Or are you willing to go into the season with Cameron, Davis, Barnidge, Dan Gronkowski, Brad Smelley, and Garrett Hoskins...and Travis Tannahill .
....apparently the Browns are.
And, at cornerback, the Browns did pick up 2 players in FA, and one in the draft. So, you have Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Wade, Bademosi, Barnes, Owens, Prince Miller, and Josh Aubrey.
You want another FA?
Know who the best names out there are?:
Chris Gamble, but he is retiring
Quentin Jammer
....and Sheldon Brown
...and Nate Clements.
all older than what the Browns want to go for.
The Browns GOT people. Maybe they just ain't the ones you wanted...but they were the ones they wanted.
There were several decent DBs and TEs the Browns could have signed with some effort and some money at the begining of the FA period, like DB Sean Smith. And, now, I don't think Woodson is signed -- why not bring him in to help mentor the kids and provide some depth at S/CB?
You think the three TEs the Browns have area any good? They are horrific!!! Cameron was a very bad pick and the two FAs are zeroes when it comes to catching the ball. Davis was kicked out of Chicago he is so bad as a receiver. The fact that Weeden does not have a receiving option at TE in this new offense is a complete and total disaster!
Skeptical2013 said:
There were several decent DBs and TEs the Browns could have signed with some effort and some money at the begining of the FA period, like DB Sean Smith. And, now, I don't think Woodson is signed -- why not bring him in to help mentor the kids and provide some depth at S/CB?
You think the three TEs the Browns have area any good? They are horrific!!! Cameron was a very bad pick and the two FAs are zeroes when it comes to catching the ball. Davis was kicked out of Chicago he is so bad as a receiver. The fact that Weeden does not have a receiving option at TE in this new offense is a complete and total disaster!
I am sure any amount of second guessing can be done about who the Browns did pick up in FA and who they didn't. You could ask "why didn't they get Wallace or Welker at TE?" Or "Why didn't they get Fred Davis or Jared Cook"...well, because they didn't.
They have no interest in Woodson because he is OLD. Notice that the Browns did not go after any FAs over 30.
And, also, I think the Browns have a completely different view about Cameron than you do. They believe he can be a very viable receiving TE.
So, their opinion differs from yours.
Guess what....as much as we question Lombanner.....I am still going to go with their opinion over yours.
-
I am doing this here because it fits better than where we were having this discussion about the Steelers Gains and Losses Comparison. Remember, this involves losses in FA vs. gains in FA plus the draft (ignoring UDFAs) Give these a grade. Generally, to me....if things are exactly equal I would say a grade of C is in order. No gain/no loss.
For major upgrade give an A+ or A- or B+, B,B-, or C+ for very minor upgrades. For downgrades give C-, D, F.
Steelers comparison:
Quarterbacks:
Gained: Bruce Gradkowski, Landry Jones
Lost: Byron Leftwich, Charlie Batch
Grade:
Running Backs:
Gained: Leveon Bell, LaRod Stephens-Howling
Lost: Rashad Mendenhall, Isaac Redman
Grade:
Tight Ends:
Gained: Matt Spaeth
Lost: Leonard Pope, David Johnson
Grade:
Wide Receivers:
Gained: Markus Wheaton, Justin Brown
Lost: Mike Wallace
Grade:
Offensive Line:
Gained: Guy Whimper
Lost: Willie Colon, Ramon Foster, Doug Legursky, Max Starks
Grade:
Defensive Line:
Gained: Nick Williams
Lost: Casey Hampton
Grade:
Linebackers:
Gained: Jarvis Jones, Vince Williams
Lost: James Harrison, Brandon Johnson
Grade:
Defensive Backs:
Gained: William Gay, Terry Hawthorne, Shamarko Thomas
Lost: Will Allen, Keenan Lewis, Ryan Mundy
Special Teams: Punter
Lost: Jeremy Kapinos
Gained: ??? nothing so far
Give your grades
-
Let's do the Same for the Baltimore Ravens:
Quarterback:
Gained: Caleb Hanie
Lost: none
Grade:
RB/FB:
Gained: Kyle Juszczyk FB
Lost: none
Grade
TE:
Gained: none
Lost: Billy Bajema
Status pending: Dennis Pitta RFA
Grade:
Wide Receiver:
Gained: Aaron Mellette
Lost: Anquan Boldin (traded)
Grade:
Offensive Line:
Gained: Rick Wagner, Ryan Jensen
Lost: none
Grade
Defensive Line:
Gained: Brandon Williams, John Simon, Kapron Lewis-Moore, Marcus Spears, Elvis Dumerville, Chris Canty
Lost: Ryan McBean, Ma'ake Keomatu
Grade:
Linebackers:
Gained: Arthur Brown, Rolando McClain
Lost: Ray Lewis, Daniel Ellerbe, Paul Kruger, Brendan Ayenbadejo
Grade:
Defensive Backs:
Gained: Matt Elam, Marc Anthony, Michael
Lost: Sean Considine, Bernard Pollard, Ed Reed
Grade:
-
Finally, lets do the Bengals:
Quarterback:
Gained: Josh Johnson, John Skelton
Lost: Bruce Gradkowski
Grade:
RB/FB:
Gained: Giovani Bernard, Rex Burkhead
Lost: Brian Leonard
Grade:
Tight End:
Gained: Tyler Eifert, Alex Smith
Lost: none
Grade:
Wide Receiver:
Gained: none
Lost: none
???: Marvin Jones RFA , status pending
Offensive Line:
Gained: Tanner Hawkins, Reid Fragel, TJ Johnson
Lost: none
Defensive Line:
Gained: Margus Hunt
Lost: Pat Sims
Grade:
Linebacker:
Gained: Sean Porter, James Harrison
Lost: Thomas Howard, Manny Lawson, Dan Skuta
Defensive Backs:
Gained: Shawn Williams
Lost: Jason Allen, Nate Clements, Chris Crocker
Grade:
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