Losses Vs. Gains Comparison
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How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
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How do you know we "let" him get away? He wasn't going to sign here unless we franchise tagged him for the third time. If the guy doesn't want to play here, there isn't much the front office can do about that.
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
Skeptical2013 said:
From my vantage point, it's clear the Browns were not interested in signing Dawson.
Objectively wrong.
You have zero proof Dawson had any intent to sign a contract put in front of him by Cleveland.
It's clear exactly what happened -- Dawson told Banner he wasn't resigning, and Banner had zero leverage because Dawson had been franchised for the last 2 years.
Skeptical2013 said:
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE.
They did. The only CB target worth pursuing was Grimes, and they got a TE.
You make the assumption that every FA wanted to come to Cleveland -- and you're wrong. Grimes chose Miami, and a couple of the TE targets chose elsewhere. That in no way makes Banner a loser -- but making the assumption that everyone wanted to come to Cleveland makes you a gratuitously dramatic ex-girlfriend.
Skeptical2013 said:
The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight endwhen you consider there were good quality athletes there
The signing of Frostee Rucker shows the stupidity of getting people just because they're available.. he sucked, period. And if the draft is quality every year, those picks will generate better athletes next year than they would have this year.
They got a pick out of trading McCoy -- that's serious competance that Heckert couldn't pull off. They got starter-quality athletes with every pick this year -- something Heckert couldn't pull off, and few FO's ever do.
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We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
I love your passion, and hell ya if I was a free agent I'd go play for the Browns... for free (or close to it)...
but let's be honest, these guys are young and rich... they want to get drunk, laid, and see a show on their days off. PLUS, these guys want to win championships. What would make them want to come here? Do you really think most of these guys care about the fan base as much as Kosar and Sipe did? This is a new era of egotism and self-centeredness where the lifestyle is more important than game or the fans...
I love your passion, and hell ya if I was a free agent I'd go play for the Browns... for free (or close to it)...
but let's be honest, these guys are young and rich... they want to get drunk, laid, and see a show on their days off. PLUS, these guys want to win championships. What would make them want to come here? Do you really think most of these guys care about the fan base as much as Kosar and Sipe did? This is a new era of egotism and self-centeredness where the lifestyle is more important than game or the fans...
Are you saying that playing the game and working at their craft is secondary to them? If so, they should not be playing.
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We can't grade upon guys we didn't get. So there is no real use in even mentioning them. Stick to what we did get.
And yes, we can blame those guys for going elsewhere.
Playing football is these guys jobs. They are not going on fucking vacation. I go on vacation to Miami/NY/NO/DC, I don't live or work there.
For these guys to come to work in the best environment for football, Cleveland IS THE place. The hell with those other towns.
You go to New Orleans to get drunk. You go to Miami to get laid. You go to NY to see a show. You go to DC to see museums and monuments or to protest.
You go to Cleveland to go to work playing football.
That's a Cleveland bias, plain and simple.
Cleveland is not a favorable destination for free agents, no matter what anybody says. Until we start winning, nothing will change in that regard.
That's a Cleveland bias, plain and simple.
Cleveland is not a favorable destination for free agents, no matter what anybody says. Until we start winning, nothing will change in that regard.
Really? Then why did THE top rated FA linebacker come to Cleveland?
Why did THE top rated FA defensive lineman come to Cleveland.
The Best free agents out there came here.....so that disproves your "not a favorable destination" claim.
I also think a large part of it is that these BEST free agents see that it is highly probable that the Browns will start winning soon.
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To be fair, we were in the hunt for Brent Grimes from Atl, one of the top free agents on the market, and just like LeQueen, he chose South Beach over Cleveland... can you blame him? Also, we were in talks with Keenan Lewis from Pit who quickly signed with New Orleans...
Also, we were in discussions with Brandon Myers from Oak who chose to go play in New York City and Fred Davis from Was who got overpaid to stay in D.C.
Miami, New Orleans, New York City, and Washington D.C. over Cleveland... c'mon man.
Don't forget these guys are FREE AGENTS meaning they are able to not only pick which team they play for, but which city they will be living in for the next few years. It's not like Cleveland is like going to Green Bay where they have a Super Bowl contender every year, which makes it worth living in such a cold, boring town... Can't put all the blame on Lombardi... he doesn't have much to sell to Free Agents right now. If we start winning, then maybe we have a chance...
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
Skeptical2013 said:
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
Let's be clear that one thing is involved here: Lombardi has a failed track record at selecting talent.
So, yes, the choices he has made and the moves he has made do NOT inspire confidence....in anyone perhaps except he and Banner.
But, maybe they will work out.
And, FYI the Browns DID go out and get a couple of tight ends in FA. Would you rather have Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge than Alex Smith and Ben Watson? I personally don't know.
There are names still out there: Dallas Clark, K2, Chris Cooley, Randy McMichael, Ed Dickson, Will Heller, Kevin Boss.
You want one of them?
Or are you willing to go into the season with Cameron, Davis, Barnidge, Dan Gronkowski, Brad Smelley, and Garrett Hoskins...and Travis Tannahill .
....apparently the Browns are.
And, at cornerback, the Browns did pick up 2 players in FA, and one in the draft. So, you have Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Wade, Bademosi, Barnes, Owens, Prince Miller, and Josh Aubrey.
You want another FA?
Know who the best names out there are?:
Chris Gamble, but he is retiring
Quentin Jammer
....and Sheldon Brown
...and Nate Clements.
all older than what the Browns want to go for.
The Browns GOT people. Maybe they just ain't the ones you wanted...but they were the ones they wanted.
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I love your passion, and hell ya if I was a free agent I'd go play for the Browns... for free (or close to it)...
but let's be honest, these guys are young and rich... they want to get drunk, laid, and see a show on their days off. PLUS, these guys want to win championships. What would make them want to come here? Do you really think most of these guys care about the fan base as much as Kosar and Sipe did? This is a new era of egotism and self-centeredness where the lifestyle is more important than game or the fans...
Are you saying that playing the game and working at their craft is secondary to them? If so, they should not be playing.
Are you saying that playing the game and working at their craft is secondary to them? If so, they should not be playing.
For many of these guys, yes.
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Skeptical2013 said:
My issue is that the Browns should have had a strategy on day one to aggresively pursue a CB and TE. For cyring out loud, they had the money to attract people! It seems to me they made a strong effort in this area only after most of the quality guys were signed. This new ownership group is a bunch of losers, just like all the other ones. Lombardi is supposed to be a hot shot who can evaluate and persuade. He's just another in the long list of losers here. Either you are all in to win or just get out and do something else. The fact the Browns now have a horrific lack of quality and quality depth in the secondary and at tight end is inexcusable given all the FA money they had and their excellent drafting positions in rounds 1,3, 4 and 5. Those weaknesses will cost the Browns at least 3-4 games this coming season, weaknesses that could have been filled. Poor Weeden, too, he has nothing to throw to at tight end.
This wait till next year stuff is nonsense and giving away those two draft picks was a disaster when you consider there were good quality athletes there for the taking. I'm sure the people in the war rooms at Cincy, Pittsburgh and Baltimore just laugh at the Browns ineptitude year after year. It truly is pathetic.
Let's be clear that one thing is involved here: Lombardi has a failed track record at selecting talent.
So, yes, the choices he has made and the moves he has made do NOT inspire confidence....in anyone perhaps except he and Banner.
But, maybe they will work out.
And, FYI the Browns DID go out and get a couple of tight ends in FA. Would you rather have Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge than Alex Smith and Ben Watson? I personally don't know.
There are names still out there: Dallas Clark, K2, Chris Cooley, Randy McMichael, Ed Dickson, Will Heller, Kevin Boss.
You want one of them?
Or are you willing to go into the season with Cameron, Davis, Barnidge, Dan Gronkowski, Brad Smelley, and Garrett Hoskins...and Travis Tannahill .
....apparently the Browns are.
And, at cornerback, the Browns did pick up 2 players in FA, and one in the draft. So, you have Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Wade, Bademosi, Barnes, Owens, Prince Miller, and Josh Aubrey.
You want another FA?
Know who the best names out there are?:
Chris Gamble, but he is retiring
Quentin Jammer
....and Sheldon Brown
...and Nate Clements.
all older than what the Browns want to go for.
The Browns GOT people. Maybe they just ain't the ones you wanted...but they were the ones they wanted.
Let's be clear that one thing is involved here: Lombardi has a failed track record at selecting talent.
So, yes, the choices he has made and the moves he has made do NOT inspire confidence....in anyone perhaps except he and Banner.
But, maybe they will work out.
And, FYI the Browns DID go out and get a couple of tight ends in FA. Would you rather have Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge than Alex Smith and Ben Watson? I personally don't know.
There are names still out there: Dallas Clark, K2, Chris Cooley, Randy McMichael, Ed Dickson, Will Heller, Kevin Boss.
You want one of them?
Or are you willing to go into the season with Cameron, Davis, Barnidge, Dan Gronkowski, Brad Smelley, and Garrett Hoskins...and Travis Tannahill .
....apparently the Browns are.
And, at cornerback, the Browns did pick up 2 players in FA, and one in the draft. So, you have Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Wade, Bademosi, Barnes, Owens, Prince Miller, and Josh Aubrey.
You want another FA?
Know who the best names out there are?:
Chris Gamble, but he is retiring
Quentin Jammer
....and Sheldon Brown
...and Nate Clements.
all older than what the Browns want to go for.
The Browns GOT people. Maybe they just ain't the ones you wanted...but they were the ones they wanted.
There were several decent DBs and TEs the Browns could have signed with some effort and some money at the begining of the FA period, like DB Sean Smith. And, now, I don't think Woodson is signed -- why not bring him in to help mentor the kids and provide some depth at S/CB?
You think the three TEs the Browns have area any good? They are horrific!!! Cameron was a very bad pick and the two FAs are zeroes when it comes to catching the ball. Davis was kicked out of Chicago he is so bad as a receiver. The fact that Weeden does not have a receiving option at TE in this new offense is a complete and total disaster!
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Let's be clear that one thing is involved here: Lombardi has a failed track record at selecting talent.
So, yes, the choices he has made and the moves he has made do NOT inspire confidence....in anyone perhaps except he and Banner.
But, maybe they will work out.
And, FYI the Browns DID go out and get a couple of tight ends in FA. Would you rather have Kellen Davis and Gary Barnidge than Alex Smith and Ben Watson? I personally don't know.
There are names still out there: Dallas Clark, K2, Chris Cooley, Randy McMichael, Ed Dickson, Will Heller, Kevin Boss.
You want one of them?
Or are you willing to go into the season with Cameron, Davis, Barnidge, Dan Gronkowski, Brad Smelley, and Garrett Hoskins...and Travis Tannahill .
....apparently the Browns are.
And, at cornerback, the Browns did pick up 2 players in FA, and one in the draft. So, you have Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Wade, Bademosi, Barnes, Owens, Prince Miller, and Josh Aubrey.
You want another FA?
Know who the best names out there are?:
Chris Gamble, but he is retiring
Quentin Jammer
....and Sheldon Brown
...and Nate Clements.
all older than what the Browns want to go for.
The Browns GOT people. Maybe they just ain't the ones you wanted...but they were the ones they wanted.
There were several decent DBs and TEs the Browns could have signed with some effort and some money at the begining of the FA period, like DB Sean Smith. And, now, I don't think Woodson is signed -- why not bring him in to help mentor the kids and provide some depth at S/CB?
You think the three TEs the Browns have area any good? They are horrific!!! Cameron was a very bad pick and the two FAs are zeroes when it comes to catching the ball. Davis was kicked out of Chicago he is so bad as a receiver. The fact that Weeden does not have a receiving option at TE in this new offense is a complete and total disaster!
Skeptical2013 said:
There were several decent DBs and TEs the Browns could have signed with some effort and some money at the begining of the FA period, like DB Sean Smith. And, now, I don't think Woodson is signed -- why not bring him in to help mentor the kids and provide some depth at S/CB?
You think the three TEs the Browns have area any good? They are horrific!!! Cameron was a very bad pick and the two FAs are zeroes when it comes to catching the ball. Davis was kicked out of Chicago he is so bad as a receiver. The fact that Weeden does not have a receiving option at TE in this new offense is a complete and total disaster!
I am sure any amount of second guessing can be done about who the Browns did pick up in FA and who they didn't. You could ask "why didn't they get Wallace or Welker at TE?" Or "Why didn't they get Fred Davis or Jared Cook"...well, because they didn't.
They have no interest in Woodson because he is OLD. Notice that the Browns did not go after any FAs over 30.
And, also, I think the Browns have a completely different view about Cameron than you do. They believe he can be a very viable receiving TE.
So, their opinion differs from yours.
Guess what....as much as we question Lombanner.....I am still going to go with their opinion over yours.
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I am doing this here because it fits better than where we were having this discussion about the Steelers Gains and Losses Comparison. Remember, this involves losses in FA vs. gains in FA plus the draft (ignoring UDFAs) Give these a grade. Generally, to me....if things are exactly equal I would say a grade of C is in order. No gain/no loss.
For major upgrade give an A+ or A- or B+, B,B-, or C+ for very minor upgrades. For downgrades give C-, D, F.
Steelers comparison:
Quarterbacks:
Gained: Bruce Gradkowski, Landry Jones
Lost: Byron Leftwich, Charlie Batch
Grade:
Running Backs:
Gained: Leveon Bell, LaRod Stephens-Howling
Lost: Rashad Mendenhall, Isaac Redman
Grade:
Tight Ends:
Gained: Matt Spaeth
Lost: Leonard Pope, David Johnson
Grade:
Wide Receivers:
Gained: Markus Wheaton, Justin Brown
Lost: Mike Wallace
Grade:
Offensive Line:
Gained: Guy Whimper
Lost: Willie Colon, Ramon Foster, Doug Legursky, Max Starks
Grade:
Defensive Line:
Gained: Nick Williams
Lost: Casey Hampton
Grade:
Linebackers:
Gained: Jarvis Jones, Vince Williams
Lost: James Harrison, Brandon Johnson
Grade:
Defensive Backs:
Gained: William Gay, Terry Hawthorne, Shamarko Thomas
Lost: Will Allen, Keenan Lewis, Ryan Mundy
Special Teams: Punter
Lost: Jeremy Kapinos
Gained: ??? nothing so far
Give your grades
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Let's do the Same for the Baltimore Ravens:
Quarterback:
Gained: Caleb Hanie
Lost: none
Grade:
RB/FB:
Gained: Kyle Juszczyk FB
Lost: none
Grade
TE:
Gained: none
Lost: Billy Bajema
Status pending: Dennis Pitta RFA
Grade:
Wide Receiver:
Gained: Aaron Mellette
Lost: Anquan Boldin (traded)
Grade:
Offensive Line:
Gained: Rick Wagner, Ryan Jensen
Lost: none
Grade
Defensive Line:
Gained: Brandon Williams, John Simon, Kapron Lewis-Moore, Marcus Spears, Elvis Dumerville, Chris Canty
Lost: Ryan McBean, Ma'ake Keomatu
Grade:
Linebackers:
Gained: Arthur Brown, Rolando McClain
Lost: Ray Lewis, Daniel Ellerbe, Paul Kruger, Brendan Ayenbadejo
Grade:
Defensive Backs:
Gained: Matt Elam, Marc Anthony, Michael
Lost: Sean Considine, Bernard Pollard, Ed Reed
Grade:
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Finally, lets do the Bengals:
Quarterback:
Gained: Josh Johnson, John Skelton
Lost: Bruce Gradkowski
Grade:
RB/FB:
Gained: Giovani Bernard, Rex Burkhead
Lost: Brian Leonard
Grade:
Tight End:
Gained: Tyler Eifert, Alex Smith
Lost: none
Grade:
Wide Receiver:
Gained: none
Lost: none
???: Marvin Jones RFA , status pending
Offensive Line:
Gained: Tanner Hawkins, Reid Fragel, TJ Johnson
Lost: none
Defensive Line:
Gained: Margus Hunt
Lost: Pat Sims
Grade:
Linebacker:
Gained: Sean Porter, James Harrison
Lost: Thomas Howard, Manny Lawson, Dan Skuta
Defensive Backs:
Gained: Shawn Williams
Lost: Jason Allen, Nate Clements, Chris Crocker
Grade:
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That's a Cleveland bias, plain and simple.
Cleveland is not a favorable destination for free agents, no matter what anybody says. Until we start winning, nothing will change in that regard.
Really? Then why did THE top rated FA linebacker come to Cleveland?
Why did THE top rated FA defensive lineman come to Cleveland.
The Best free agents out there came here.....so that disproves your "not a favorable destination" claim.
I also think a large part of it is that these BEST free agents see that it is highly probable that the Browns will start winning soon.
Really? Then why did THE top rated FA linebacker come to Cleveland?
Why did THE top rated FA defensive lineman come to Cleveland.
The Best free agents out there came here.....so that disproves your "not a favorable destination" claim.
I also think a large part of it is that these BEST free agents see that it is highly probable that the Browns will start winning soon.
He was overpaid, that's why he came to Cleveland. The defense is no doubt turning a corner but I'd bet he wasn't getting offers in the same ball park from other teams. They paid him a lot of money. They came because the Browns paid more than everyone else. It's not like any of the guys the Browns signed were part of league wide bidding wars. Kruger isn't even a 3 down linebacker.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
I am doing this here because it fits better than where we were having this discussion about the Steelers Gains and Losses Comparison. Remember, this involves losses in FA vs. gains in FA plus the draft (ignoring UDFAs) Give these a grade. Generally, to me....if things are exactly equal I would say a grade of C is in order. No gain/no loss.
For major upgrade give an A+ or A- or B+, B,B-, or C+ for very minor upgrades. For downgrades give C-, D, F.
Steelers comparison:
Quarterbacks:
Gained: Bruce Gradkowski, Landry Jones
Lost: Byron Leftwich, Charlie Batch
Grade:
Running Backs:
Gained: Leveon Bell, LaRod Stephens-Howling
Lost: Rashad Mendenhall, Isaac Redman
Grade:
Tight Ends:
Gained: Matt Spaeth
Lost: Leonard Pope, David Johnson
Grade:
Wide Receivers:
Gained: Markus Wheaton, Justin Brown
Lost: Mike Wallace
Grade:
Offensive Line:
Gained: Guy Whimper
Lost: Willie Colon, Ramon Foster, Doug Legursky, Max Starks
Grade:
Defensive Line:
Gained: Nick Williams
Lost: Casey Hampton
Grade:
Linebackers:
Gained: Jarvis Jones, Vince Williams
Lost: James Harrison, Brandon Johnson
Grade:
Defensive Backs:
Gained: William Gay, Terry Hawthorne, Shamarko Thomas
Lost: Will Allen, Keenan Lewis, Ryan Mundy
Special Teams: Punter
Lost: Jeremy Kapinos
Gained: ??? nothing so far
Give your grades
I am doing this here because it fits better than where we were having this discussion about the Steelers Gains and Losses Comparison. Remember, this involves losses in FA vs. gains in FA plus the draft (ignoring UDFAs) Give these a grade. Generally, to me....if things are exactly equal I would say a grade of C is in order. No gain/no loss.
For major upgrade give an A+ or A- or B+, B,B-, or C+ for very minor upgrades. For downgrades give C-, D, F.
Steelers comparison:
Quarterbacks:
Gained: Bruce Gradkowski, Landry Jones
Lost: Byron Leftwich, Charlie Batch
Grade:
Running Backs:
Gained: Leveon Bell, LaRod Stephens-Howling
Lost: Rashad Mendenhall, Isaac Redman
Grade:
Tight Ends:
Gained: Matt Spaeth
Lost: Leonard Pope, David Johnson
Grade:
Wide Receivers:
Gained: Markus Wheaton, Justin Brown
Lost: Mike Wallace
Grade:
Offensive Line:
Gained: Guy Whimper
Lost: Willie Colon, Ramon Foster, Doug Legursky, Max Starks
Grade:
Defensive Line:
Gained: Nick Williams
Lost: Casey Hampton
Grade:
Linebackers:
Gained: Jarvis Jones, Vince Williams
Lost: James Harrison, Brandon Johnson
Grade:
Defensive Backs:
Gained: William Gay, Terry Hawthorne, Shamarko Thomas
Lost: Will Allen, Keenan Lewis, Ryan Mundy
Special Teams: Punter
Lost: Jeremy Kapinos
Gained: ??? nothing so far
Give your grades
They didn't lose Ramon Foster, he was signed to an extension. What also needs to be kept in mind is that the Steelers have players already on the roster set to take over for a lot of the vacancies. Worilds, Cortez Allen, McClendon/Ta'amu etc, etc, etc. The Steelers don't play in FA much, they build through the draft. All the top tier teams do.
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Skeptical2013 said:
There were several decent DBs and TEs the Browns could have signed with some effort and some money at the begining of the FA period, like DB Sean Smith. And, now, I don't think Woodson is signed -- why not bring him in to help mentor the kids and provide some depth at S/CB?
You think the three TEs the Browns have area any good? They are horrific!!! Cameron was a very bad pick and the two FAs are zeroes when it comes to catching the ball. Davis was kicked out of Chicago he is so bad as a receiver. The fact that Weeden does not have a receiving option at TE in this new offense is a complete and total disaster!
I am sure any amount of second guessing can be done about who the Browns did pick up in FA and who they didn't. You could ask "why didn't they get Wallace or Welker at TE?" Or "Why didn't they get Fred Davis or Jared Cook"...well, because they didn't.
They have no interest in Woodson because he is OLD. Notice that the Browns did not go after any FAs over 30.
And, also, I think the Browns have a completely different view about Cameron than you do. They believe he can be a very viable receiving TE.
So, their opinion differs from yours.
Guess what....as much as we question Lombanner.....I am still going to go with their opinion over yours.
I am sure any amount of second guessing can be done about who the Browns did pick up in FA and who they didn't. You could ask "why didn't they get Wallace or Welker at TE?" Or "Why didn't they get Fred Davis or Jared Cook"...well, because they didn't.
They have no interest in Woodson because he is OLD. Notice that the Browns did not go after any FAs over 30.
And, also, I think the Browns have a completely different view about Cameron than you do. They believe he can be a very viable receiving TE.
So, their opinion differs from yours.
Guess what....as much as we question Lombanner.....I am still going to go with their opinion over yours.
So, when Gipson get s hurt, tell me again about the "quality" free safety the Browns will have in the secondary?! Adding at least something Woodson, old or not, would be a help. It's a tragedy that the Browns front office shows no respect to all the fans who shell out big bucks for season tickets et al by going out and getting a TE and FS and make this team competitive in 2013, giving the fans at least something watchable. LIke in 2012, QBs are going to have a field day against the Browns' weak, no quality depth secondary and this team will once again be 5-11. How in the world can one run a TE-oriented offense without a quality tight end?!
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Head Coach
Lost: Pat Shurmur
Gained: Chud
Grade: There isn't one high enough
OC
Lost: Pat Shurmur
Gained: Norv Turner
Grade: There isn't one high enough
DC
Lost: Dicky J.
Gained: Horton
Grade: ? But I love it!
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Really? Then why did THE top rated FA linebacker come to Cleveland?
Why did THE top rated FA defensive lineman come to Cleveland.
The Best free agents out there came here.....so that disproves your "not a favorable destination" claim.
I also think a large part of it is that these BEST free agents see that it is highly probable that the Browns will start winning soon.
He was overpaid, that's why he came to Cleveland. The defense is no doubt turning a corner but I'd bet he wasn't getting offers in the same ball park from other teams. They paid him a lot of money. They came because the Browns paid more than everyone else. It's not like any of the guys the Browns signed were part of league wide bidding wars. Kruger isn't even a 3 down linebacker.
He was overpaid, that's why he came to Cleveland. The defense is no doubt turning a corner but I'd bet he wasn't getting offers in the same ball park from other teams. They paid him a lot of money. They came because the Browns paid more than everyone else. It's not like any of the guys the Browns signed were part of league wide bidding wars. Kruger isn't even a 3 down linebacker.
He? You mean "they". They got the top rated FA at two different positions.
Every freeking NFL player out there is overpaid. If you are supposedly going to get the best then you have to pay the most.
Maybe they did pay him $1.00 more than the next guy. Good. That is how NFL free agency works.
And who really gives a crap what these guys are paid. They don't share any of it with me.
And besides....after paying Kruger and Bryant et al, the Browns are still like 30 million over the cap.
And the Steelers weren't. That is why they dumped so many FAs on their team, and are now relying on replacing them with draft picks.
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He was overpaid, that's why he came to Cleveland. The defense is no doubt turning a corner but I'd bet he wasn't getting offers in the same ball park from other teams. They paid him a lot of money. They came because the Browns paid more than everyone else. It's not like any of the guys the Browns signed were part of league wide bidding wars. Kruger isn't even a 3 down linebacker.
He? You mean "they". They got the top rated FA at two different positions.
Every freeking NFL player out there is overpaid. If you are supposedly going to get the best then you have to pay the most.
Maybe they did pay him $1.00 more than the next guy. Good. That is how NFL free agency works.
And who really gives a crap what these guys are paid. They don't share any of it with me.
And besides....after paying Kruger and Bryant et al, the Browns are still like 30 million over the cap.
And the Steelers weren't. That is why they dumped so many FAs on their team, and are now relying on replacing them with draft picks.
He? You mean "they". They got the top rated FA at two different positions.
Every freeking NFL player out there is overpaid. If you are supposedly going to get the best then you have to pay the most.
Maybe they did pay him $1.00 more than the next guy. Good. That is how NFL free agency works.
And who really gives a crap what these guys are paid. They don't share any of it with me.
And besides....after paying Kruger and Bryant et al, the Browns are still like 30 million over the cap.
And the Steelers weren't. That is why they dumped so many FAs on their team, and are now relying on replacing them with draft picks.
Yep they were both overpaid by a desperate football franchise. They have drafted horribly and needed answers now. Kruger is a two down linebacker and i dont know a ton about Bryant. No matter the.cap.room how many years is it now that the Browns have drafted inside the top 10 in the last decade? How about the steelers? Good teams dont over pay in free agency, they pay their own and draft well enough to not be desperate. The Browns should take notes, so should you. Mr. Apathetic. I mean Mr. Football clueless when it involves anything outside the Browns.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
We got rid of Josh Johnson? Awe...
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He? You mean "they". They got the top rated FA at two different positions.
Every freeking NFL player out there is overpaid. If you are supposedly going to get the best then you have to pay the most.
Maybe they did pay him $1.00 more than the next guy. Good. That is how NFL free agency works.
And who really gives a crap what these guys are paid. They don't share any of it with me.
And besides....after paying Kruger and Bryant et al, the Browns are still like 30 million over the cap.
And the Steelers weren't. That is why they dumped so many FAs on their team, and are now relying on replacing them with draft picks.
Yep they were both overpaid by a desperate football franchise. They have drafted horribly and needed answers now. Kruger is a two down linebacker and i dont know a ton about Bryant. No matter the.cap.room how many years is it now that the Browns have drafted inside the top 10 in the last decade? How about the steelers? Good teams dont over pay in free agency, they pay their own and draft well enough to not be desperate. The Browns should take notes, so should you. Mr. Apathetic. I mean Mr. Football clueless when it involves anything outside the Browns.
Yep they were both overpaid by a desperate football franchise. They have drafted horribly and needed answers now. Kruger is a two down linebacker and i dont know a ton about Bryant. No matter the.cap.room how many years is it now that the Browns have drafted inside the top 10 in the last decade? How about the steelers? Good teams dont over pay in free agency, they pay their own and draft well enough to not be desperate. The Browns should take notes, so should you. Mr. Apathetic. I mean Mr. Football clueless when it involves anything outside the Browns.
All of that about free agency is just your (fucking stupid) opinion.
And I know more about football in my pinky than you will ever know in your short, miserable life.
The Browns have lost a lot of games......that is THE full extent of what you know about football outside of some picayune facts about your team....that yes, no one else cares about.
You have no clue as to why they have lost those games. You are actually clueless as to why the Steelers have won many.
But, here is a fact that I know that you delude yourself is not true: The Steelers as currently constituted are not a very good team.
Their talent in most areas is mediocre. The talented players they have are long in the tooth and on the downside of their careers. (Polamalu; old. BR...not quite the same after so many injuries) You have what you think are some good young players....but you think they are good merely because they say Pittsburgh Steelers on their jersey. The likes of DeCastro and Jarvis Jones and others might be good prospects.....but there is no assurance of that. They might be Ariel Castro and Jerry Jones. They may be no better than the prospects on 31 other teams.
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I am doing this here because it fits better than where we were having this discussion about the Steelers Gains and Losses Comparison. Remember, this involves losses in FA vs. gains in FA plus the draft (ignoring UDFAs) Give these a grade. Generally, to me....if things are exactly equal I would say a grade of C is in order. No gain/no loss.
For major upgrade give an A+ or A- or B+, B,B-, or C+ for very minor upgrades. For downgrades give C-, D, F.
Steelers comparison:
Quarterbacks:
Gained: Bruce Gradkowski, Landry Jones
Lost: Byron Leftwich, Charlie Batch
Grade:
Running Backs:
Gained: Leveon Bell, LaRod Stephens-Howling
Lost: Rashad Mendenhall, Isaac Redman
Grade:
Tight Ends:
Gained: Matt Spaeth
Lost: Leonard Pope, David Johnson
Grade:
Wide Receivers:
Gained: Markus Wheaton, Justin Brown
Lost: Mike Wallace
Grade:
Offensive Line:
Gained: Guy Whimper
Lost: Willie Colon, Ramon Foster, Doug Legursky, Max Starks
Grade:
Defensive Line:
Gained: Nick Williams
Lost: Casey Hampton
Grade:
Linebackers:
Gained: Jarvis Jones, Vince Williams
Lost: James Harrison, Brandon Johnson
Grade:
Defensive Backs:
Gained: William Gay, Terry Hawthorne, Shamarko Thomas
Lost: Will Allen, Keenan Lewis, Ryan Mundy
Special Teams: Punter
Lost: Jeremy Kapinos
Gained: ??? nothing so far
Give your grades
I am doing this here because it fits better than where we were having this discussion about the Steelers Gains and Losses Comparison. Remember, this involves losses in FA vs. gains in FA plus the draft (ignoring UDFAs) Give these a grade. Generally, to me....if things are exactly equal I would say a grade of C is in order. No gain/no loss.
For major upgrade give an A+ or A- or B+, B,B-, or C+ for very minor upgrades. For downgrades give C-, D, F.
Steelers comparison:
Quarterbacks:
Gained: Bruce Gradkowski, Landry Jones
Lost: Byron Leftwich, Charlie Batch
Grade: C+...while Gradkowski is no upgrade...getting the young and maybe talented Landry Jones as a backup is a slight improvement over Batch and Leftwich.
Running Backs:
Gained: Leveon Bell, LaRod Stephens-Howling
Lost: Rashad Mendenhall, Isaac Redman
Grade: B. While Bell was not as good as fellow Big Ten RB Montee Ball, I believe he will be a great improvement over Mendenhall. It might have been a C+ just getting rid of Osama Bin Mendenhall without getting anyone to replace him
Tight Ends:
Gained: Matt Spaeth
Lost: Leonard Pope, David Johnson
Grade: C+. Spaeth may be a little better blocking TE than Pope....but this is not that much of an upgrade.
Wide Receivers:
Gained: Markus Wheaton, Justin Brown
Lost: Mike Wallace
Grade: D...Wallace was considered perhap THE best FA on the market after Flacco resigned, and you don't just replace one of the games best big play threats with a couple of rookies. For now, it is the proven vs. the unproven, and unproven loses in this rating.
Offensive Line:
Gained: Guy Whimper
Lost: Willie Colon, Ramon Foster, Doug Legursky, Max Starks
Grade: D... One guy to replace 4? The Steelers are not going out with a bang but with a whimper. Are going to make up these spots with UDFAs, I guess.
Defensive Line:
Gained: Nick Williams
Lost: Casey Hampton
Grade: D, cannot replace a proven veteran with a late round draft choice. Youth will be served, but will talent?
Linebackers:
Gained: Jarvis Jones, Vince Williams
Lost: James Harrison, Brandon Johnson
Grade: C+, while Jones will likely be better than the James Harrison of 2012....Steelers are counting on him being the equivalent of James Harrison in his prime. He has that potential, yes. Can he come through?
Defensive Backs:
Gained: William Gay, Terry Hawthorne, Shamarko Thomas
Lost: Will Allen, Keenan Lewis, Ryan Mundy
Grade: Waivering between C+ and B. Again, can mid round draft picks do better than seasoned veterans. Those veterans weren't all that good....so I say there is somewhat of an upgrade here.
Special Teams: Punter
Lost: Jeremy Kapinos
Gained: ??? nothing so far
Grade: While punters can be important this is still a whatever grade.
Give your grades
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