Browns Defense Will Dramatically Improve - Major Reason
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Yeah I agree look at the assistants under belichick that tried moving up to the next level.Again...might be good with linebackers...but is he good with DB's,and DE's....thats debatable ..I think your over value him just because Rooney said he's heir apparent...Dick LeBeau's dont grow on tree's numbnut. ..not everyone has the same feel and ability to call defensive plays and set up schemes...some of that is coaching...some of that is talent...how great have your steelers really been since Dr Rydze became public fodder?...mhmmm it was mostly roids and Harrison being jacked out of his mind...out side of that your full of crap!
Yeah I agree look at the assistants under belichick that tried moving up to the next level.
Al Groh
Romeo Crennel
Nick Saban (successful in college)
Josh McDaniels
Have all failed at the next NFL level.
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You'll see. Corners are basically the WRs of the defense, heavily dependent on pass rush like WRs are heavily dependent on playing with Manning or Rodgers (!). They're both just really dependent. If you rattle the pocket and shrink the window, suddenly you have better corners than you thought.
The league has made it so hard to be a "shutdown corner." Every five years or so, a really good one comes along but it doesn't seem to add up to all that much. Revis and the Jets never made it to the Super Bowl and fell of quickly, partially because they never had a pass rush or a great quarterback and those are the real building blocks now.
You'll see. Corners are basically the WRs of the defense, heavily dependent on pass rush like WRs are heavily dependent on playing with Manning or Rodgers (!). They're both just really dependent. If you rattle the pocket and shrink the window, suddenly you have better corners than you thought.
The league has made it so hard to be a "shutdown corner." Every five years or so, a really good one comes along but it doesn't seem to add up to all that much. Revis and the Jets never made it to the Super Bowl and fell of quickly, partially because they never had a pass rush or a great quarterback and those are the real building blocks now.
As I mentioned the other day, one of the key reasons you want to have a really good athlete at Free Safety -- and why I advocated for it so hard and long on this board -- is that when the pressure is put on the QB, and he feels it, you want to be able to take advantage of the mistakes he may make via throwing inaccurately and thus pick off the pass. Ed Reed was the master of this, an intimidator.
Last year, for instance, we saw how rattled Weeden got against the Ravens at times as Reed, even in the twilight of his career, got into Weden's head, more say than Suggs did. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. Is Gipson good enough to be a speedy, savvy, FS in the mold of an Ed Reed? That's questionable. But even more concerning is that if Gipson gets hurt we don't have the athletes at that position to do an adequate job back there, at least in my view.
Another thought: to this day I maintain the Browns would have been in two Super Bowls back in the mid 80s if safety Don Rogers hadn't died of an overdose the night before his wedding. Rogers was the kind of intimidating, athletic safety I'm talking about. He had made some key INTs in his rookie season when the Browns made the playoffs and was on his way to becoming all pro. His replacement was slow and not as athletic and that really hurt the Browns against the Broncos. .
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Two of my favorite "shutdown corners"......Ronnie Lott and Champ B
Champ Bailey is overrated, in my opinion. Didn't Lott play safety?
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Skeptical2013 said:
Champ Bailey is overrated, in my opinion. Didn't Lott play safety?
Champ Bailey had great cover speed..Not a great tackler...but then Deion Sanders was a shitty tackler too...And yes Ronnie Lott was a safety..who was great but I thought he was a tad overrated.
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The overall pass D was league average last year. In fact all aspects of the Browns D were good last year - especially the DL.
So I'm not sure the D will be able to improve - because they're already quite good. Beware of ascribing causation to things that are only vaguely correlated.
Here is the stat that actually shows where the team issue is, and why we've been in the cellar of the AFCN.
I wouldn't look for a big defensive improvement - if possible, great. But we need a significantly better offense. Our D is already good, better than most.. and our differential between O and D is still terrible, because our offense was beyond terrible last year.
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They gave up a ton of yards (I think they were 25th overall?) and a lot of points (19th overall). There's a ton of room for improvement, actually. They did some things well but the biggest problem was getting off the field on third downs, probably because they couldn't generate a pass rush without sending DBs so it was choose your poison against good passers.
Horton put up really good numbers in the pass rush and against the pass (#1 in Passer Rating D) but didn't do all that well as far as the bottom line, scoring defense. He didn't have any dominant pass rushers either. Neither the Browns nor last year's Cards had guys like Mingo, Kruger, and Desmond Bryant. When Sheard is your third best pass rusher rather than your first and pretty much only, that's a huge change.
The hope is that the Browns spend a lot of time in the 4-2-5, Horton's pass package, because they've taken leads. Then we'll generate a pass rush with a front four that could include combinations of Mingo, Kruger, Sheard, Bryant, Winn, Taylor, etc., DQJ and Robertson at linebacker, and five DBs from Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Owens, Ward, Gipson, and Bademosi.
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The Cards have Calais Campbell, the #1a 3-4 DE in the league - second only to JJ Watt, and arguably not second to him because Calais is over 300 pounds. In 2012 the Cards were #2 in the league in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT, and #2 in the league in getting off the field on 3rd down.
Browns 3rd down efficiency in getting off the field was 16th in the league last year, and the Browns were 12th in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT.
The Browns D gave up a ton of yards and points because the offense couldn't move the ball to save its life, continually putting the D back out on the field.
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No you`re the dummy chubby. Keith Butler the linebackers coach has turned down a few defensive coordinator jobs because when lebeau retires hes the guy. The Rooneys have been saying that for a while so yes in that instance its very much plug and play. Hes been a major factor in the development of our linebackers and helped you goons get a guy to the pro bowl in jamir miller. Hes been under lebeau for a long time so him stepping in should be pretty smooth when that time comes.
Again...might be good with linebackers...but is he good with DB's,and DE's....thats debatable ..I think your over value him just because Rooney said he's heir apparent...Dick LeBeau's dont grow on tree's numbnut. ..not everyone has the same feel and ability to call defensive plays and set up schemes...some of that is coaching...some of that is talent...how great have your steelers really been since Dr Rydze became public fodder?...mhmmm it was mostly roids and Harrison being jacked out of his mind...out side of that your full of crap!
Again...might be good with linebackers...but is he good with DB's,and DE's....thats debatable ..I think your over value him just because Rooney said he's heir apparent...Dick LeBeau's dont grow on tree's numbnut. ..not everyone has the same feel and ability to call defensive plays and set up schemes...some of that is coaching...some of that is talent...how great have your steelers really been since Dr Rydze became public fodder?...mhmmm it was mostly roids and Harrison being jacked out of his mind...out side of that your full of crap!
Nickers you are the epitome of mouth breather and i often wonder why i even bother responding to your mindless bs half the time. Butler wants to coach the steelers, he has said the same himself. Hes been there now for 9 years and his track record speaks for itself. My opinion of him has nothing to do with dan or art rooney`s opinion and everything to do with the development and dominance of our linebacking corp for the last decade. if he takes the d coordinator job he will simply run the defense. Carnell lake will still be the db coach and mitchell will still be the dline coach you ignorant glutonous mass. Also please find where that dr was tied to the steelers with peds. All the testing they do now, you dont think the league would have dug something up up already? More mindlss drivel from the neighborhood cheerleader. Harrison is also probably one of the hardest working players in the nfl and it has zero to do with peds. I hate that hes a bengal and youd be sucking his dick if he were a brown so stfu.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
The Cards have Calais Campbell, the #1a 3-4 DE in the league - second only to JJ Watt, and arguably not second to him because Calais is over 300 pounds. In 2012 the Cards were #2 in the league in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT, and #2 in the league in getting off the field on 3rd down.
Browns 3rd down efficiency in getting off the field was 16th in the league last year, and the Browns were 12th in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT.
The Browns D gave up a ton of yards and points because the offense couldn't move the ball to save its life, continually putting the D back out on the field.
Both teams were really offensively challenged and you certainly can't take that out of the equation. I'll also agree that Campbell had his best year and along with their fast ILB and Peterson were their best defensive players. Trouble is, none of them were really passrushers to speak of. What Horton did with a dominant passrusher was amazing.
Surprised Browns were even that high (16th) but they seemed particularly vulnerable to 3rd and long. Not sure what the league wide average is, but it seemed like when we went to sub packages and didn't blitz, we were so easily blockable and QBs had way, WAY too much time.
The Cards have Calais Campbell, the #1a 3-4 DE in the league - second only to JJ Watt, and arguably not second to him because Calais is over 300 pounds. In 2012 the Cards were #2 in the league in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT, and #2 in the league in getting off the field on 3rd down.
Browns 3rd down efficiency in getting off the field was 16th in the league last year, and the Browns were 12th in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT.
The Browns D gave up a ton of yards and points because the offense couldn't move the ball to save its life, continually putting the D back out on the field.
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Again...might be good with linebackers...but is he good with DB's,and DE's....thats debatable ..I think your over value him just because Rooney said he's heir apparent...Dick LeBeau's dont grow on tree's numbnut. ..not everyone has the same feel and ability to call defensive plays and set up schemes...some of that is coaching...some of that is talent...how great have your steelers really been since Dr Rydze became public fodder?...mhmmm it was mostly roids and Harrison being jacked out of his mind...out side of that your full of crap!
Nickers you are the epitome of mouth breather and i often wonder why i even bother responding to your mindless bs half the time. Butler wants to coach the steelers, he has said the same himself. Hes been there now for 9 years and his track record speaks for itself. My opinion of him has nothing to do with dan or art rooney`s opinion and everything to do with the development and dominance of our linebacking corp for the last decade. if he takes the d coordinator job he will simply run the defense. Carnell lake will still be the db coach and mitchell will still be the dline coach you ignorant glutonous mass. Also please find where that dr was tied to the steelers with peds. All the testing they do now, you dont think the league would have dug something up up already? More mindlss drivel from the neighborhood cheerleader. Harrison is also probably one of the hardest working players in the nfl and it has zero to do with peds. I hate that hes a bengal and youd be sucking his dick if he were a brown so stfu.
Nickers you are the epitome of mouth breather and i often wonder why i even bother responding to your mindless bs half the time. Butler wants to coach the steelers, he has said the same himself. Hes been there now for 9 years and his track record speaks for itself. My opinion of him has nothing to do with dan or art rooney`s opinion and everything to do with the development and dominance of our linebacking corp for the last decade. if he takes the d coordinator job he will simply run the defense. Carnell lake will still be the db coach and mitchell will still be the dline coach you ignorant glutonous mass. Also please find where that dr was tied to the steelers with peds. All the testing they do now, you dont think the league would have dug something up up already? More mindlss drivel from the neighborhood cheerleader. Harrison is also probably one of the hardest working players in the nfl and it has zero to do with peds. I hate that hes a bengal and youd be sucking his dick if he were a brown so stfu.
Your urine stained glasses has clouded you senseless...you respond because like the dumb monkey fuck you are,your that dumb you run and grab the bait every time........And you wonder why people cant take you half seriously on this board...
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Both teams were really offensively challenged and you certainly can't take that out of the equation. I'll also agree that Campbell had his best year and along with their fast ILB and Peterson were their best defensive players. Trouble is, none of them were really passrushers to speak of. What Horton did with a dominant passrusher was amazing.
Surprised Browns were even that high (16th) but they seemed particularly vulnerable to 3rd and long. Not sure what the league wide average is, but it seemed like when we went to sub packages and didn't blitz, we were so easily blockable and QBs had way, WAY too much time.
The Cards have Calais Campbell, the #1a 3-4 DE in the league - second only to JJ Watt, and arguably not second to him because Calais is over 300 pounds. In 2012 the Cards were #2 in the league in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT, and #2 in the league in getting off the field on 3rd down.
Browns 3rd down efficiency in getting off the field was 16th in the league last year, and the Browns were 12th in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT.
The Browns D gave up a ton of yards and points because the offense couldn't move the ball to save its life, continually putting the D back out on the field.
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They gave up a ton of yards (I think they were 25th overall?) and a lot of points (19th overall). There's a ton of room for improvement, actually. They did some things well but the biggest problem was getting off the field on third downs, probably because they couldn't generate a pass rush without sending DBs so it was choose your poison against good passers.
Horton put up really good numbers in the pass rush and against the pass (#1 in Passer Rating D) but didn't do all that well as far as the bottom line, scoring defense. He didn't have any dominant pass rushers either. Neither the Browns nor last year's Cards had guys like Mingo, Kruger, and Desmond Bryant. When Sheard is your third best pass rusher rather than your first and pretty much only, that's a huge change.
The hope is that the Browns spend a lot of time in the 4-2-5, Horton's pass package, because they've taken leads. Then we'll generate a pass rush with a front four that could include combinations of Mingo, Kruger, Sheard, Bryant, Winn, Taylor, etc., DQJ and Robertson at linebacker, and five DBs from Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Owens, Ward, Gipson, and Bademosi.
They gave up a ton of yards (I think they were 25th overall?) and a lot of points (19th overall). There's a ton of room for improvement, actually. They did some things well but the biggest problem was getting off the field on third downs, probably because they couldn't generate a pass rush without sending DBs so it was choose your poison against good passers.
Horton put up really good numbers in the pass rush and against the pass (#1 in Passer Rating D) but didn't do all that well as far as the bottom line, scoring defense. He didn't have any dominant pass rushers either. Neither the Browns nor last year's Cards had guys like Mingo, Kruger, and Desmond Bryant. When Sheard is your third best pass rusher rather than your first and pretty much only, that's a huge change.
The hope is that the Browns spend a lot of time in the 4-2-5, Horton's pass package, because they've taken leads. Then we'll generate a pass rush with a front four that could include combinations of Mingo, Kruger, Sheard, Bryant, Winn, Taylor, etc., DQJ and Robertson at linebacker, and five DBs from Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Owens, Ward, Gipson, and Bademosi.
Part of the reason our YPG and PPG rankings were so low can be attributed to the fact that we were 29th in TOP.
Pittsburgh's defense (1st in YPG), was 2nd in TOP.
Seattle's defense (1st in PPG), was 5th in TOP.
Our defense is on the field for over half the game. While the margin of difference between our TOP and Seattle's or Pittsburgh's is only a couple of minutes, those minutes matter. Those couple minutes can be two scoring drives.
A lot of our defensive woes can be directly attributed to our offense, or lack thereof.
We're only as strong as our weakest link.
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Agree. But that's mostly because we lacked a dominant pass rusher, let alone two.
And we still do.
Mingo has yet to do anything against an NFL line. Let him play before you start calling him "dominant".
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I wouldnt call Jaurons defense prevent but more a team oriented defense...I think he made some great calls.,but that said...I think his defense was better suited before the late 80's came around..Im just not into the idea of waiting for the offense to make a mistake...better to be aggressive and force them into one.
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The overall pass D was league average last year. In fact all aspects of the Browns D were good last year - especially the DL.
So I'm not sure the D will be able to improve - because they're already quite good. Beware of ascribing causation to things that are only vaguely correlated.
Here is the stat that actually shows where the team issue is, and why we've been in the cellar of the AFCN.
I wouldn't look for a big defensive improvement - if possible, great. But we need a significantly better offense. Our D is already good, better than most.. and our differential between O and D is still terrible, because our offense was beyond terrible last year.
The overall pass D was league average last year. In fact all aspects of the Browns D were good last year - especially the DL.
So I'm not sure the D will be able to improve - because they're already quite good. Beware of ascribing causation to things that are only vaguely correlated.
Here is the stat that actually shows where the team issue is, and why we've been in the cellar of the AFCN.
I wouldn't look for a big defensive improvement - if possible, great. But we need a significantly better offense. Our D is already good, better than most.. and our differential between O and D is still terrible, because our offense was beyond terrible last year.
That's all interesting because when one looks at the official NFL defensive statistics we see this for the Browns:
- Browns gave up an average of 245 yards a game via the pass in 2012, ranking 25th in pro football, and overall the defense gave up an average of 364 yards a game, ranking 23rd.
Browns pass defense stank last year. Part of it may have been lack of pass rush, but part of it also is attribuatble to the fact that the Browns were a disaster at the #2 corner and free safety position and their backup DBs were horrific, and that was especially front and center during Haden's absence.
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The reason the Browns gave up so many pass yards is because only 4 teams [NO, Minn, TB, Wash] had more passing attempts on them the entire year.
Defense sees the field less -> defense gives up fewer yards. Not shockingly, the only teams that gave up more yards were those 4, plus Miami which gave up an additional 100 yards with the same number of attempts, 600.
Cleveland's passing defense efficiency was dead square the same as Baltimore's.. however, Baltimore's pass D had 43 fewer attempts on it.
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Until you play the games, all you can do is bring in guys you think will be good at what you need them to do. Signing Kruger and drafting Mingo is exactly that. Once Kruger's back was right he was an absolute terror. Mingo (in the opinions of many) has the best skill set to become the premier pass rusher from the 2013 draft.
Neither the Browns nor the Cardinals brought in guys like those two, a top free agent pass rusher and a top drafted pass rusher. Hell, you could argue that the Cardinals didn't have a player who could match up with Sheard's 15 sacks in two years.
And we still do.
Mingo has yet to do anything against an NFL line. Let him play before you start calling him "dominant". -
The overall pass D was league average last year. In fact all aspects of the Browns D were good last year - especially the DL.
So I'm not sure the D will be able to improve - because they're already quite good. Beware of ascribing causation to things that are only vaguely correlated.
Here is the stat that actually shows where the team issue is, and why we've been in the cellar of the AFCN.
I wouldn't look for a big defensive improvement - if possible, great. But we need a significantly better offense. Our D is already good, better than most.. and our differential between O and D is still terrible, because our offense was beyond terrible last year.
That's all interesting because when one looks at the official NFL defensive statistics we see this for the Browns:
- Browns gave up an average of 245 yards a game via the pass in 2012, ranking 25th in pro football, and overall the defense gave up an average of 364 yards a game, ranking 23rd.
Browns pass defense stank last year. Part of it may have been lack of pass rush, but part of it also is attribuatble to the fact that the Browns were a disaster at the #2 corner and free safety position and their backup DBs were horrific, and that was especially front and center during Haden's absence.
I wrote repeatedly last year that if you added one elite pass rusher to the Browns, the defense crosses over from pretty good to excellent. The corners look way better. Everything changes.
Skeptical2013 said:
That's all interesting because when one looks at the official NFL defensive statistics we see this for the Browns:
- Browns gave up an average of 245 yards a game via the pass in 2012, ranking 25th in pro football, and overall the defense gave up an average of 364 yards a game, ranking 23rd.
Browns pass defense stank last year. Part of it may have been lack of pass rush, but part of it also is attribuatble to the fact that the Browns were a disaster at the #2 corner and free safety position and their backup DBs were horrific, and that was especially front and center during Haden's absence.
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Until you play the games, all you can do is bring in guys you think will be good at what you need them to do. Signing Kruger and drafting Mingo is exactly that. Once Kruger's back was right he was an absolute terror. Mingo (in the opinions of many) has the best skill set to become the premier pass rusher from the 2013 draft.
Neither the Browns nor the Cardinals brought in guys like those two, a top free agent pass rusher and a top drafted pass rusher. Hell, you could argue that the Cardinals didn't have a player who could match up with Sheard's 15 sacks in two years.
And we still do.
Mingo has yet to do anything against an NFL line. Let him play before you start calling him "dominant".Until you play the games, all you can do is bring in guys you think will be good at what you need them to do. Signing Kruger and drafting Mingo is exactly that. Once Kruger's back was right he was an absolute terror. Mingo (in the opinions of many) has the best skill set to become the premier pass rusher from the 2013 draft.
Neither the Browns nor the Cardinals brought in guys like those two, a top free agent pass rusher and a top drafted pass rusher. Hell, you could argue that the Cardinals didn't have a player who could match up with Sheard's 15 sacks in two years.
Sure, you could argue that.
Calais Campbell had 14.5 sacks for the Cardinals over the past 2 seasons. 27.5 over the past 4 years. He also had 135 tackles over the last two seasons, compared to Sheard's 110.
Daryl Washington has had 14 sacks for the Cardinals over the past two seasons along with 241 tackles.
So, yes, you could conceivably say that the Cardinals haven't had a player who could match up with Sheard...but you'd be a fucking idiot.
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