Browns Defense Will Dramatically Improve - Major Reason
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The Cards have Calais Campbell, the #1a 3-4 DE in the league - second only to JJ Watt, and arguably not second to him because Calais is over 300 pounds. In 2012 the Cards were #2 in the league in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT, and #2 in the league in getting off the field on 3rd down.
Browns 3rd down efficiency in getting off the field was 16th in the league last year, and the Browns were 12th in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT.
The Browns D gave up a ton of yards and points because the offense couldn't move the ball to save its life, continually putting the D back out on the field.
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No you`re the dummy chubby. Keith Butler the linebackers coach has turned down a few defensive coordinator jobs because when lebeau retires hes the guy. The Rooneys have been saying that for a while so yes in that instance its very much plug and play. Hes been a major factor in the development of our linebackers and helped you goons get a guy to the pro bowl in jamir miller. Hes been under lebeau for a long time so him stepping in should be pretty smooth when that time comes.
Again...might be good with linebackers...but is he good with DB's,and DE's....thats debatable ..I think your over value him just because Rooney said he's heir apparent...Dick LeBeau's dont grow on tree's numbnut. ..not everyone has the same feel and ability to call defensive plays and set up schemes...some of that is coaching...some of that is talent...how great have your steelers really been since Dr Rydze became public fodder?...mhmmm it was mostly roids and Harrison being jacked out of his mind...out side of that your full of crap!
Again...might be good with linebackers...but is he good with DB's,and DE's....thats debatable ..I think your over value him just because Rooney said he's heir apparent...Dick LeBeau's dont grow on tree's numbnut. ..not everyone has the same feel and ability to call defensive plays and set up schemes...some of that is coaching...some of that is talent...how great have your steelers really been since Dr Rydze became public fodder?...mhmmm it was mostly roids and Harrison being jacked out of his mind...out side of that your full of crap!
Nickers you are the epitome of mouth breather and i often wonder why i even bother responding to your mindless bs half the time. Butler wants to coach the steelers, he has said the same himself. Hes been there now for 9 years and his track record speaks for itself. My opinion of him has nothing to do with dan or art rooney`s opinion and everything to do with the development and dominance of our linebacking corp for the last decade. if he takes the d coordinator job he will simply run the defense. Carnell lake will still be the db coach and mitchell will still be the dline coach you ignorant glutonous mass. Also please find where that dr was tied to the steelers with peds. All the testing they do now, you dont think the league would have dug something up up already? More mindlss drivel from the neighborhood cheerleader. Harrison is also probably one of the hardest working players in the nfl and it has zero to do with peds. I hate that hes a bengal and youd be sucking his dick if he were a brown so stfu.
AKA SNATCH98 or Rorbotron. The boards glorious admins decided to get cute and change my name to "homotron" Classy group of people. (Lost a bet with Columbus king and got banned for a month) -
The Cards have Calais Campbell, the #1a 3-4 DE in the league - second only to JJ Watt, and arguably not second to him because Calais is over 300 pounds. In 2012 the Cards were #2 in the league in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT, and #2 in the league in getting off the field on 3rd down.
Browns 3rd down efficiency in getting off the field was 16th in the league last year, and the Browns were 12th in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT.
The Browns D gave up a ton of yards and points because the offense couldn't move the ball to save its life, continually putting the D back out on the field.
Both teams were really offensively challenged and you certainly can't take that out of the equation. I'll also agree that Campbell had his best year and along with their fast ILB and Peterson were their best defensive players. Trouble is, none of them were really passrushers to speak of. What Horton did with a dominant passrusher was amazing.
Surprised Browns were even that high (16th) but they seemed particularly vulnerable to 3rd and long. Not sure what the league wide average is, but it seemed like when we went to sub packages and didn't blitz, we were so easily blockable and QBs had way, WAY too much time.
The Cards have Calais Campbell, the #1a 3-4 DE in the league - second only to JJ Watt, and arguably not second to him because Calais is over 300 pounds. In 2012 the Cards were #2 in the league in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT, and #2 in the league in getting off the field on 3rd down.
Browns 3rd down efficiency in getting off the field was 16th in the league last year, and the Browns were 12th in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT.
The Browns D gave up a ton of yards and points because the offense couldn't move the ball to save its life, continually putting the D back out on the field.
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Again...might be good with linebackers...but is he good with DB's,and DE's....thats debatable ..I think your over value him just because Rooney said he's heir apparent...Dick LeBeau's dont grow on tree's numbnut. ..not everyone has the same feel and ability to call defensive plays and set up schemes...some of that is coaching...some of that is talent...how great have your steelers really been since Dr Rydze became public fodder?...mhmmm it was mostly roids and Harrison being jacked out of his mind...out side of that your full of crap!
Nickers you are the epitome of mouth breather and i often wonder why i even bother responding to your mindless bs half the time. Butler wants to coach the steelers, he has said the same himself. Hes been there now for 9 years and his track record speaks for itself. My opinion of him has nothing to do with dan or art rooney`s opinion and everything to do with the development and dominance of our linebacking corp for the last decade. if he takes the d coordinator job he will simply run the defense. Carnell lake will still be the db coach and mitchell will still be the dline coach you ignorant glutonous mass. Also please find where that dr was tied to the steelers with peds. All the testing they do now, you dont think the league would have dug something up up already? More mindlss drivel from the neighborhood cheerleader. Harrison is also probably one of the hardest working players in the nfl and it has zero to do with peds. I hate that hes a bengal and youd be sucking his dick if he were a brown so stfu.
Nickers you are the epitome of mouth breather and i often wonder why i even bother responding to your mindless bs half the time. Butler wants to coach the steelers, he has said the same himself. Hes been there now for 9 years and his track record speaks for itself. My opinion of him has nothing to do with dan or art rooney`s opinion and everything to do with the development and dominance of our linebacking corp for the last decade. if he takes the d coordinator job he will simply run the defense. Carnell lake will still be the db coach and mitchell will still be the dline coach you ignorant glutonous mass. Also please find where that dr was tied to the steelers with peds. All the testing they do now, you dont think the league would have dug something up up already? More mindlss drivel from the neighborhood cheerleader. Harrison is also probably one of the hardest working players in the nfl and it has zero to do with peds. I hate that hes a bengal and youd be sucking his dick if he were a brown so stfu.
Your urine stained glasses has clouded you senseless...you respond because like the dumb monkey fuck you are,your that dumb you run and grab the bait every time........And you wonder why people cant take you half seriously on this board...
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Both teams were really offensively challenged and you certainly can't take that out of the equation. I'll also agree that Campbell had his best year and along with their fast ILB and Peterson were their best defensive players. Trouble is, none of them were really passrushers to speak of. What Horton did with a dominant passrusher was amazing.
Surprised Browns were even that high (16th) but they seemed particularly vulnerable to 3rd and long. Not sure what the league wide average is, but it seemed like when we went to sub packages and didn't blitz, we were so easily blockable and QBs had way, WAY too much time.
The Cards have Calais Campbell, the #1a 3-4 DE in the league - second only to JJ Watt, and arguably not second to him because Calais is over 300 pounds. In 2012 the Cards were #2 in the league in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT, and #2 in the league in getting off the field on 3rd down.
Browns 3rd down efficiency in getting off the field was 16th in the league last year, and the Browns were 12th in % of opponent pass plays that end in a sack or INT.
The Browns D gave up a ton of yards and points because the offense couldn't move the ball to save its life, continually putting the D back out on the field.
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They gave up a ton of yards (I think they were 25th overall?) and a lot of points (19th overall). There's a ton of room for improvement, actually. They did some things well but the biggest problem was getting off the field on third downs, probably because they couldn't generate a pass rush without sending DBs so it was choose your poison against good passers.
Horton put up really good numbers in the pass rush and against the pass (#1 in Passer Rating D) but didn't do all that well as far as the bottom line, scoring defense. He didn't have any dominant pass rushers either. Neither the Browns nor last year's Cards had guys like Mingo, Kruger, and Desmond Bryant. When Sheard is your third best pass rusher rather than your first and pretty much only, that's a huge change.
The hope is that the Browns spend a lot of time in the 4-2-5, Horton's pass package, because they've taken leads. Then we'll generate a pass rush with a front four that could include combinations of Mingo, Kruger, Sheard, Bryant, Winn, Taylor, etc., DQJ and Robertson at linebacker, and five DBs from Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Owens, Ward, Gipson, and Bademosi.
They gave up a ton of yards (I think they were 25th overall?) and a lot of points (19th overall). There's a ton of room for improvement, actually. They did some things well but the biggest problem was getting off the field on third downs, probably because they couldn't generate a pass rush without sending DBs so it was choose your poison against good passers.
Horton put up really good numbers in the pass rush and against the pass (#1 in Passer Rating D) but didn't do all that well as far as the bottom line, scoring defense. He didn't have any dominant pass rushers either. Neither the Browns nor last year's Cards had guys like Mingo, Kruger, and Desmond Bryant. When Sheard is your third best pass rusher rather than your first and pretty much only, that's a huge change.
The hope is that the Browns spend a lot of time in the 4-2-5, Horton's pass package, because they've taken leads. Then we'll generate a pass rush with a front four that could include combinations of Mingo, Kruger, Sheard, Bryant, Winn, Taylor, etc., DQJ and Robertson at linebacker, and five DBs from Haden, McFadden, Skrine, Owens, Ward, Gipson, and Bademosi.
Part of the reason our YPG and PPG rankings were so low can be attributed to the fact that we were 29th in TOP.
Pittsburgh's defense (1st in YPG), was 2nd in TOP.
Seattle's defense (1st in PPG), was 5th in TOP.
Our defense is on the field for over half the game. While the margin of difference between our TOP and Seattle's or Pittsburgh's is only a couple of minutes, those minutes matter. Those couple minutes can be two scoring drives.
A lot of our defensive woes can be directly attributed to our offense, or lack thereof.
We're only as strong as our weakest link.
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Agree. But that's mostly because we lacked a dominant pass rusher, let alone two.
And we still do.
Mingo has yet to do anything against an NFL line. Let him play before you start calling him "dominant".
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I wouldnt call Jaurons defense prevent but more a team oriented defense...I think he made some great calls.,but that said...I think his defense was better suited before the late 80's came around..Im just not into the idea of waiting for the offense to make a mistake...better to be aggressive and force them into one.
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The overall pass D was league average last year. In fact all aspects of the Browns D were good last year - especially the DL.
So I'm not sure the D will be able to improve - because they're already quite good. Beware of ascribing causation to things that are only vaguely correlated.
Here is the stat that actually shows where the team issue is, and why we've been in the cellar of the AFCN.
I wouldn't look for a big defensive improvement - if possible, great. But we need a significantly better offense. Our D is already good, better than most.. and our differential between O and D is still terrible, because our offense was beyond terrible last year.
The overall pass D was league average last year. In fact all aspects of the Browns D were good last year - especially the DL.
So I'm not sure the D will be able to improve - because they're already quite good. Beware of ascribing causation to things that are only vaguely correlated.
Here is the stat that actually shows where the team issue is, and why we've been in the cellar of the AFCN.
I wouldn't look for a big defensive improvement - if possible, great. But we need a significantly better offense. Our D is already good, better than most.. and our differential between O and D is still terrible, because our offense was beyond terrible last year.
That's all interesting because when one looks at the official NFL defensive statistics we see this for the Browns:
- Browns gave up an average of 245 yards a game via the pass in 2012, ranking 25th in pro football, and overall the defense gave up an average of 364 yards a game, ranking 23rd.
Browns pass defense stank last year. Part of it may have been lack of pass rush, but part of it also is attribuatble to the fact that the Browns were a disaster at the #2 corner and free safety position and their backup DBs were horrific, and that was especially front and center during Haden's absence.
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The reason the Browns gave up so many pass yards is because only 4 teams [NO, Minn, TB, Wash] had more passing attempts on them the entire year.
Defense sees the field less -> defense gives up fewer yards. Not shockingly, the only teams that gave up more yards were those 4, plus Miami which gave up an additional 100 yards with the same number of attempts, 600.
Cleveland's passing defense efficiency was dead square the same as Baltimore's.. however, Baltimore's pass D had 43 fewer attempts on it.
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Until you play the games, all you can do is bring in guys you think will be good at what you need them to do. Signing Kruger and drafting Mingo is exactly that. Once Kruger's back was right he was an absolute terror. Mingo (in the opinions of many) has the best skill set to become the premier pass rusher from the 2013 draft.
Neither the Browns nor the Cardinals brought in guys like those two, a top free agent pass rusher and a top drafted pass rusher. Hell, you could argue that the Cardinals didn't have a player who could match up with Sheard's 15 sacks in two years.
And we still do.
Mingo has yet to do anything against an NFL line. Let him play before you start calling him "dominant". -
The overall pass D was league average last year. In fact all aspects of the Browns D were good last year - especially the DL.
So I'm not sure the D will be able to improve - because they're already quite good. Beware of ascribing causation to things that are only vaguely correlated.
Here is the stat that actually shows where the team issue is, and why we've been in the cellar of the AFCN.
I wouldn't look for a big defensive improvement - if possible, great. But we need a significantly better offense. Our D is already good, better than most.. and our differential between O and D is still terrible, because our offense was beyond terrible last year.
That's all interesting because when one looks at the official NFL defensive statistics we see this for the Browns:
- Browns gave up an average of 245 yards a game via the pass in 2012, ranking 25th in pro football, and overall the defense gave up an average of 364 yards a game, ranking 23rd.
Browns pass defense stank last year. Part of it may have been lack of pass rush, but part of it also is attribuatble to the fact that the Browns were a disaster at the #2 corner and free safety position and their backup DBs were horrific, and that was especially front and center during Haden's absence.
I wrote repeatedly last year that if you added one elite pass rusher to the Browns, the defense crosses over from pretty good to excellent. The corners look way better. Everything changes.
Skeptical2013 said:
That's all interesting because when one looks at the official NFL defensive statistics we see this for the Browns:
- Browns gave up an average of 245 yards a game via the pass in 2012, ranking 25th in pro football, and overall the defense gave up an average of 364 yards a game, ranking 23rd.
Browns pass defense stank last year. Part of it may have been lack of pass rush, but part of it also is attribuatble to the fact that the Browns were a disaster at the #2 corner and free safety position and their backup DBs were horrific, and that was especially front and center during Haden's absence.
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Until you play the games, all you can do is bring in guys you think will be good at what you need them to do. Signing Kruger and drafting Mingo is exactly that. Once Kruger's back was right he was an absolute terror. Mingo (in the opinions of many) has the best skill set to become the premier pass rusher from the 2013 draft.
Neither the Browns nor the Cardinals brought in guys like those two, a top free agent pass rusher and a top drafted pass rusher. Hell, you could argue that the Cardinals didn't have a player who could match up with Sheard's 15 sacks in two years.
And we still do.
Mingo has yet to do anything against an NFL line. Let him play before you start calling him "dominant".Until you play the games, all you can do is bring in guys you think will be good at what you need them to do. Signing Kruger and drafting Mingo is exactly that. Once Kruger's back was right he was an absolute terror. Mingo (in the opinions of many) has the best skill set to become the premier pass rusher from the 2013 draft.
Neither the Browns nor the Cardinals brought in guys like those two, a top free agent pass rusher and a top drafted pass rusher. Hell, you could argue that the Cardinals didn't have a player who could match up with Sheard's 15 sacks in two years.
Sure, you could argue that.
Calais Campbell had 14.5 sacks for the Cardinals over the past 2 seasons. 27.5 over the past 4 years. He also had 135 tackles over the last two seasons, compared to Sheard's 110.
Daryl Washington has had 14 sacks for the Cardinals over the past two seasons along with 241 tackles.
So, yes, you could conceivably say that the Cardinals haven't had a player who could match up with Sheard...but you'd be a fucking idiot.
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Until you play the games, all you can do is bring in guys you think will be good at what you need them to do. Signing Kruger and drafting Mingo is exactly that. Once Kruger's back was right he was an absolute terror. Mingo (in the opinions of many) has the best skill set to become the premier pass rusher from the 2013 draft.
Neither the Browns nor the Cardinals brought in guys like those two, a top free agent pass rusher and a top drafted pass rusher. Hell, you could argue that the Cardinals didn't have a player who could match up with Sheard's 15 sacks in two years.
Sure, you could argue that.
Calais Campbell had 14.5 sacks for the Cardinals over the past 2 seasons. 27.5 over the past 4 years. He also had 135 tackles over the last two seasons, compared to Sheard's 110.
Daryl Washington has had 14 sacks for the Cardinals over the past two seasons along with 241 tackles.
So, yes, you could conceivably say that the Cardinals haven't had a player who could match up with Sheard...but you'd be a fucking idiot.
And thus ends the fun part of our conversation!!
The guy who would match up with Sheard would be an edge rusher, friend. Not a 5-tech or ILB. That didn't even make sense and I won't even say anything like "fucking idiot." I'll let you figure that out on your own!
Horton does love blitzing up the middle which is why I love Robertson's explosion there (and same size as Washington). But on the edge at 3-4 OLB, he at least arguably didn't have anyone as good as Kruger, Mingo, OR Sheard. He did have someone as good as Quentin Groves. Named Quentin Groves. Now a Brown (!).
You need to hold a conversation like a grownup now. Come on.
Sure, you could argue that.
Calais Campbell had 14.5 sacks for the Cardinals over the past 2 seasons. 27.5 over the past 4 years. He also had 135 tackles over the last two seasons, compared to Sheard's 110.
Daryl Washington has had 14 sacks for the Cardinals over the past two seasons along with 241 tackles.
So, yes, you could conceivably say that the Cardinals haven't had a player who could match up with Sheard...but you'd be a fucking idiot. -
And someone on the topic, Couch: Are you suggesting that the Browns don't have better personnel than last year's Cards? Because I would heartily disagree. There was certainly no Phil Taylor or Rubin and I think we have a legit 5-tech in Desmond Bryant who will rival Campbell. Also love Billy Winn. Those two guys fit the 3-4 better than the 4-3.
DQJ was a Pro Bowl Alternate for the third time last year and I'm a huge Craig Robertson fan (fast, great tackler, really fits). JMJ brings nice depth. OLB? Marquee position in the 3-4? Not close with Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, and Groves.
Corner? Haden and McFadden would be as good or better than Peterson and Gay. Nice set of nickels in Skrine and Owens. At worst a wash. T.J. Ward is clearly the best safety between the two teams and you know I really like Tashaun Gipson and Bademosi.
Way, way better personnel here, especially with a couple wide bodies so we aren't a sieve against the run like his Cards. They lacked a serious NT, as Sobo has written a lot. He thinks the biggest advantages are Taylor, Rubin, and all the OLBs.
I like the brass coming off like they actually understand what league it is and what year: Attack with the pass, take first half leads, rush the passer. Bam.
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And thus ends the fun part of our conversation!!
The guy who would match up with Sheard would be an edge rusher, friend. Not a 5-tech or ILB. That didn't even make sense and I won't even say anything like "fucking idiot." I'll let you figure that out on your own!
Horton does love blitzing up the middle which is why I love Robertson's explosion there (and same size as Washington). But on the edge at 3-4 OLB, he at least arguably didn't have anyone as good as Kruger, Mingo, OR Sheard. He did have someone as good as Quentin Groves. Named Quentin Groves. Now a Brown (!).
You need to hold a conversation like a grownup now. Come on.
Sure, you could argue that.
Calais Campbell had 14.5 sacks for the Cardinals over the past 2 seasons. 27.5 over the past 4 years. He also had 135 tackles over the last two seasons, compared to Sheard's 110.
Daryl Washington has had 14 sacks for the Cardinals over the past two seasons along with 241 tackles.
So, yes, you could conceivably say that the Cardinals haven't had a player who could match up with Sheard...but you'd be a fucking idiot.And thus ends the fun part of our conversation!!
The guy who would match up with Sheard would be an edge rusher, friend. Not a 5-tech or ILB. That didn't even make sense and I won't even say anything like "fucking idiot." I'll let you figure that out on your own!
Horton does love blitzing up the middle which is why I love Robertson's explosion there (and same size as Washington). But on the edge at 3-4 OLB, he at least arguably didn't have anyone as good as Kruger, Mingo, OR Sheard. He did have someone as good as Quentin Groves. Named Quentin Groves. Now a Brown (!).
You need to hold a conversation like a grownup now. Come on.
The question wasn't whether the Cardinals had a premier edge rusher, it was whether or not they had a productive pass rusher.
Regardless of the position in which the pressure came from, the Cardinals had an effective pass rush from two key positions.
That either proves that:
A- Horton can identify the strengths of his personnel and utilize them effectively, which is a welcome quality that's been lost as of late in Cleveland.
OR
B- Horton's defensive system isn't as highly based on edge rushing as everybody has been claiming.
I think it's both. While having a stable of capable edge rushers is a very nice commodity, Horton's system is based on creating pressure from every single position. I don't think he'll dial down his blitzes from other positions just because we have some possibly capable edge rushers.
It will be interesting to see what Horton does with our personnel.
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And someone on the topic, Couch: Are you suggesting that the Browns don't have better personnel than last year's Cards? Because I would heartily disagree. There was certainly no Phil Taylor or Rubin and I think we have a legit 5-tech in Desmond Bryant who will rival Campbell. Also love Billy Winn. Those two guys fit the 3-4 better than the 4-3.
DQJ was a Pro Bowl Alternate for the third time last year and I'm a huge Craig Robertson fan (fast, great tackler, really fits). JMJ brings nice depth. OLB? Marquee position in the 3-4? Not close with Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, and Groves.
Corner? Haden and McFadden would be as good or better than Peterson and Gay. Nice set of nickels in Skrine and Owens. At worst a wash. T.J. Ward is clearly the best safety between the two teams and you know I really like Tashaun Gipson and Bademosi.
Way, way better personnel here, especially with a couple wide bodies so we aren't a sieve against the run like his Cards. They lacked a serious NT, as Sobo has written a lot. He thinks the biggest advantages are Taylor, Rubin, and all the OLBs.
I like the brass coming off like they actually understand what league it is and what year: Attack with the pass, take first half leads, rush the passer. Bam.
And someone on the topic, Couch: Are you suggesting that the Browns don't have better personnel than last year's Cards? Because I would heartily disagree. There was certainly no Phil Taylor or Rubin and I think we have a legit 5-tech in Desmond Bryant who will rival Campbell. Also love Billy Winn. Those two guys fit the 3-4 better than the 4-3.
DQJ was a Pro Bowl Alternate for the third time last year and I'm a huge Craig Robertson fan (fast, great tackler, really fits). JMJ brings nice depth. OLB? Marquee position in the 3-4? Not close with Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, and Groves.
Corner? Haden and McFadden would be as good or better than Peterson and Gay. Nice set of nickels in Skrine and Owens. At worst a wash. T.J. Ward is clearly the best safety between the two teams and you know I really like Tashaun Gipson and Bademosi.
Way, way better personnel here, especially with a couple wide bodies so we aren't a sieve against the run like his Cards. They lacked a serious NT, as Sobo has written a lot. He thinks the biggest advantages are Taylor, Rubin, and all the OLBs.
I like the brass coming off like they actually understand what league it is and what year: Attack with the pass, take first half leads, rush the passer. Bam.
I believe we have the potential to have a greater front 7, but Kruger, Mingo and Sheard are all question marks. None of them can be graded as none of them have played in their positions.
Same goes for McFadden and Gipson.
Half of our starters are either rookies or new to their positions.
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What's exciting though, is that this coaching staff believes in the changes, and those changes will
be a hell of a lot of fun to watch, a breath of fresh air, and Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, McFadden and Gipson
are all the same type of player in regard to their love of the game, tenacity, intelligence, on and off the field,
work ethic... I think they are going to kick ass. Others are worried that they haven't done it yet. The upside is,
this coaching staff KNOWS what they are doing. Some of us are giving a great vote of confidence now.
Some won't do that until they get the Browns a win in the superbowl, before they will have confidence in them. I'm with the first group.
Shep has great stuff going on the subject. Very cool.
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What's exciting though, is that this coaching staff believes in the changes, and those changes will
be a hell of a lot of fun to watch, a breath of fresh air, and Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, McFadden and Gipson
are all the same type of player in regard to their love of the game, tenacity, intelligence, on and off the field,
work ethic... I think they are going to kick ass. Others are worried that they haven't done it yet. The upside is,
this coaching staff KNOWS what they are doing. Some of us are giving a great vote of confidence now.
Some won't do that until they get the Browns a win in the superbowl, before they will have confidence in them. I'm with the first group.
Shep has great stuff going on the subject. Very cool.
What's exciting though, is that this coaching staff believes in the changes, and those changes will
be a hell of a lot of fun to watch, a breath of fresh air, and Kruger, Mingo, Sheard, McFadden and Gipson
are all the same type of player in regard to their love of the game, tenacity, intelligence, on and off the field,
work ethic... I think they are going to kick ass. Others are worried that they haven't done it yet. The upside is,
this coaching staff KNOWS what they are doing. Some of us are giving a great vote of confidence now.
Some won't do that until they get the Browns a win in the superbowl, before they will have confidence in them. I'm with the first group.
Shep has great stuff going on the subject. Very cool.
I appreciate your enthusiasm to for the 2013 Browns, but teams at all levels of football -- from NAIA and Division3 on up to the Seelers and Ravens -- all have many players who love the game of football and are tenacious, intelligent and have a strong work ethic. Over the last 14 years it has been very clear that other teams, in fact, have assembled more of these types of football players than the Browns because they have won billions more football games. Many of the Browns on the 2012 version that was a loser are on the 2013 version.
The 2012 Browns had a terrible head coach, a below average offensive coordinator but the defense had one of the most respected defensive coordinators in football on any level. Coaching can make a difference, of course, but on the pro level it takes more than enthusiasm and intelligence and coaching -- you have to have talent.
Barkevious Mingo is a fine prospect. But he has an uphill battle in order to be a good player in the NFL. He is undersized to play the LB/DE position in the NFL and the game tapes show he was pushed around some in the SEC, let alone what will happen in the NFL. He needs to get a lot stronger.
Mingo also is learning a totally new position for him -- LB vs. DE. Now he'll probably line up as a DE in some sets, but mostly he'll be moved around in different OLB sets. Mingo is a very intelligent and motivated young man -- one of the best people, character wise, the Browns have acquired in the draft in some time, in my view -- but it's not going to be easy for anyone on this team to execute this complex playbook in year one. Many mistakes are going to be made.
When you combine the learning process, along with the lack of strengh issues, Mingo has an uphill battle in 2013.
Sheard is also learning a totally new position. That won't be easy, either And it won't be easy for McFadden, another intelligent guy, to cover some of the outstanding receivers in the NFL as an undersized rookie CB. Gipson? He started 3 games last year at safety. He also has a huge learning curve in a very important position.
The Browns defense in 2013 will be a work in progress and please don't expect to see a well oiled machine in motion on opening day, no matter how much enthusiasm they bring to the task. Or much of 2013 for that matter. It's not going to happen.
I appreciate that the Browns players have good coaches and players are motivated, but also don't underestimate that other teams have similar situations. The NFL is an ultra competitive business, a dog eat dog world where lack of success is penalized quickly. And this highly competitive league has not been kind to Cleveland Browns football the past 14 years.
I do believe the Browns have good coaches and some fine players this year. But maybe not enough good players and backups to fight a lof teams on an even keel. Lack of quality depth is a huge issue for the Browns at tight end and in the defensive secondary, maybe in the kicking game, too.
The coaches will do their best to put a good product on the field. But much of their success is dependent on the ability of Joe Banner and Mike Lombardi to bring in good players for them. On that score, we now have a free agency period and a draft period with which to evaluate Banner and Lombardi.
Given the fact the Browns had the most cap room of any team in the league, and given the fact they had a high draft pick position, the off-season work they have done only gets a C- from me. Other teams did a lot better with far less -- making the Browns climb back to the top that much more difficult The Browns could have been much smarter in how they used their free agency money -- bringing in better CBs than Owens and better TEs than Davis and pass rusher other than Kruger who can actually help the team stop the run as well as the pass. In fact, with a few exceptions , the Browns really blew it in free agency and that opinion is reinforced by some of the lousy grades experts gave the Browns' free agency efforts.
Then there was the draft. A team that has so many holes to fill, the Browns decided to opt out of the 4th and 5th rounds while other teams eagerly filled the void and got better. Again, the experts rated the Browns among the worst of the several dozen NFL teams.
Ther is nothing wrong with being optimistic. But temper that optimisim with reality. We saw in 2012 huge crowds visit Browns training camp with high hopes for a successful 2012 season. It didn't happen. The same thing is going to haven this summer, too -- much optimism with a new coaching staff. Just go in with both eyes wide open. There will be some positives. But there will also be some negatives. The fact that TRich and TE Jordan Cameron are already sitting out practices is not a good sign as they miss valuable time interacting with their teammates on the football field as the players learn individually and collectively how to executive the new offensive playbook.
On defense, people will watch practice and ooh and ahh as guys aggressively rush the passer. But hidden in all lthat pass rush abandon is the fact that the Browns did not acquire players this offseason who are known for their run stopping capability, a major Browns weakness. Browns also do not have quality players at all to back up guys in the secondary like Ward, Haden, McFadden and Gipson. The secondary is in for a difficult time even with all the starters on the field. Without some of them, it will be a total rout.
As we prepare for the 2013 season, let's hope for the best, but be realisitc about what we can expect. That way Browns fans can avoid another crushing dose of reality, the kind of crushing dose of reality Indians fans have now experienced over the past week. Having big hopes soundly dashed is not a fun thing to experience. Unfortunately, those feelings have just been another day at the office for Browns fans thse past 14 years.
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