Minicamp Reports, 5-23
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Shamarko has a very real height issue (not many 5'9" safeties) and while he's straight line fast, he isn't a very fluid athlete (Gipson is for sure). Nobody can really judge his instincts in the pass game because he mostly stepped up into the box and wasn't asked to cover much.
He's just not what we want at that position and was never a serious consideration. Gipson showed instincts, a sense of being in the right place, and played some corner in college. It just makes way more sense.
Shamarko has a very real height issue (not many 5'9" safeties) and while he's straight line fast, he isn't a very fluid athlete (Gipson is for sure). Nobody can really judge his instincts in the pass game because he mostly stepped up into the box and wasn't asked to cover much.
He's just not what we want at that position and was never a serious consideration. Gipson showed instincts, a sense of being in the right place, and played some corner in college. It just makes way more sense.
Thomas did do some cover work and handled it fairly capably. His height is an issue for a safety and that is why he fell to the 4th round. But Thomas is faster than Gipson and is much stronger. Thomas is better suited at strong safety but his flexibilityand speed are plusses for the Steelers. I think Thomas is a savvy guy, a gamer, and he will show you that over time.
I also think Gipson is a gamer, too. I think he has some limitations that will prevent him from becoming one of the league's best free safeties, but he certainly could grow into a competent one. My big issue is with his back up. I simply don't think he is good enough for such an important position.
I also believe you underestimate Gipson's lack of expeirence going in to the 2013 season. He played in a limited role much of 2012 and only started 3 games. There is going to be a learning curve for him in 2013 and he will get burned some and be out of position on some plays and hurt the Browns chances as a result. .
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Shamarko has a very real height issue (not many 5'9" safeties) and while he's straight line fast, he isn't a very fluid athlete (Gipson is for sure). Nobody can really judge his instincts in the pass game because he mostly stepped up into the box and wasn't asked to cover much.
He's just not what we want at that position and was never a serious consideration. Gipson showed instincts, a sense of being in the right place, and played some corner in college. It just makes way more sense.
Thomas did do some cover work and handled it fairly capably. His height is an issue for a safety and that is why he fell to the 4th round. But Thomas is faster than Gipson and is much stronger. Thomas is better suited at strong safety but his flexibilityand speed are plusses for the Steelers. I think Thomas is a savvy guy, a gamer, and he will show you that over time.
I also think Gipson is a gamer, too. I think he has some limitations that will prevent him from becoming one of the league's best free safeties, but he certainly could grow into a competent one. My big issue is with his back up. I simply don't think he is good enough for such an important position.
I also believe you underestimate Gipson's lack of expeirence going in to the 2013 season. He played in a limited role much of 2012 and only started 3 games. There is going to be a learning curve for him in 2013 and he will get burned some and be out of position on some plays and hurt the Browns chances as a result. .
SkepticalOne said:
Thomas did do some cover work and handled it fairly capably. His height is an issue for a safety and that is why he fell to the 4th round. But Thomas is faster than Gipson and is much stronger. Thomas is better suited at strong safety but his flexibilityand speed are plusses for the Steelers. I think Thomas is a savvy guy, a gamer, and he will show you that over time.
I also think Gipson is a gamer, too. I think he has some limitations that will prevent him from becoming one of the league's best free safeties, but he certainly could grow into a competent one. My big issue is with his back up. I simply don't think he is good enough for such an important position.
I also believe you underestimate Gipson's lack of expeirence going in to the 2013 season. He played in a limited role much of 2012 and only started 3 games. There is going to be a learning curve for him in 2013 and he will get burned some and be out of position on some plays and hurt the Browns chances as a result. .
And yet, he has more experience that Thomas does. Thomas is going to be a fucking rookie dude.
It is NFL experience that counts, not college experience. And I suspect Gipson had as much or more experience in college as Thomas. After all, they played in the same league essentially, so the competition faced was equal.
Besides, how do you know that Thomas is faster and stronger? Do you have those statistics?
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SkepticalOne said:
Thomas did do some cover work and handled it fairly capably. His height is an issue for a safety and that is why he fell to the 4th round. But Thomas is faster than Gipson and is much stronger. Thomas is better suited at strong safety but his flexibilityand speed are plusses for the Steelers. I think Thomas is a savvy guy, a gamer, and he will show you that over time.
I also think Gipson is a gamer, too. I think he has some limitations that will prevent him from becoming one of the league's best free safeties, but he certainly could grow into a competent one. My big issue is with his back up. I simply don't think he is good enough for such an important position.
I also believe you underestimate Gipson's lack of expeirence going in to the 2013 season. He played in a limited role much of 2012 and only started 3 games. There is going to be a learning curve for him in 2013 and he will get burned some and be out of position on some plays and hurt the Browns chances as a result. .
And yet, he has more experience that Thomas does. Thomas is going to be a fucking rookie dude.
It is NFL experience that counts, not college experience. And I suspect Gipson had as much or more experience in college as Thomas. After all, they played in the same league essentially, so the competition faced was equal.
Besides, how do you know that Thomas is faster and stronger? Do you have those statistics?
And yet, he has more experience that Thomas does. Thomas is going to be a fucking rookie dude.
It is NFL experience that counts, not college experience. And I suspect Gipson had as much or more experience in college as Thomas. After all, they played in the same league essentially, so the competition faced was equal.
Besides, how do you know that Thomas is faster and stronger? Do you have those statistics?
Gipson is counted on to be the STARTER. Thomas is not.
Thomas ran about 4.4 in the 40, Gipson about a 5.2
Thomas did 28 reps in the bench press at the Combine, more than Ziggy Ansah and Kevin Minter, two high front 7 defense draft pics. I doubt Gipson was anywhere close to that.
Mingo refused to lift in his pro day or at the Combine, and i am sure if he did, it would be much less than thomas.
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And yet, he has more experience that Thomas does. Thomas is going to be a fucking rookie dude.
It is NFL experience that counts, not college experience. And I suspect Gipson had as much or more experience in college as Thomas. After all, they played in the same league essentially, so the competition faced was equal.
Besides, how do you know that Thomas is faster and stronger? Do you have those statistics?
Gipson is counted on to be the STARTER. Thomas is not.
Thomas ran about 4.4 in the 40, Gipson about a 5.2
Thomas did 28 reps in the bench press at the Combine, more than Ziggy Ansah and Kevin Minter, two high front 7 defense draft pics. I doubt Gipson was anywhere close to that.
Mingo refused to lift in his pro day or at the Combine, and i am sure if he did, it would be much less than thomas.
Gipson is counted on to be the STARTER. Thomas is not.
Thomas ran about 4.4 in the 40, Gipson about a 5.2
Thomas did 28 reps in the bench press at the Combine, more than Ziggy Ansah and Kevin Minter, two high front 7 defense draft pics. I doubt Gipson was anywhere close to that.
Mingo refused to lift in his pro day or at the Combine, and i am sure if he did, it would be much less than thomas.
I double checked, because I knew I could not trust your stats.
Thomas ran a 4.45 40, Gipson ran a 4.6. Thomas did bench press 28 reps, which is very high for a DB....but Gipson pressed 23 reps, which is also high.
Thomas had a little better vertical leap.
And, FYI, you are full of shit if you don't think Thomas is to be expected to be the eventual starter. Point of fact is NFL.com has him as a strong safety, not a FS. So those two don't even play the same position. Thus....he was taken by the Steelers specifically to be the replacement for Polamalu. He is expected in the future to be a key component of the Steelers defense.
Gipson wasn't expected to be anything but training camp fodder. He got his position with no expectations whatsoever.
Now, if he turns out not to be FS starting material, so be it. Someone better will have to come along and beat him out...and it would merely be what was expected all along. So he is already far "ahead of the game".
Thomas, on the other hand, sits in the same position as McFadden....he is required by virtue of the investment made in him to be good.
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A more apt comparison to Thomas would be Jamoris Slaughter, 6th round pick....whose position may end up being backup SS..or he might compete for the FS position. He played both in college. In fact he even played some LB
He is taller than both at 6'0" Gipson is 5'11, Thomas 5'9"
Because of his achilles injury he didn't have combine or pro day workouts, but his previous numbers from the prior year were:
40 time: 4.46, which is the same as Thomas, a bit faster than Gipson
Bench press 19 reps, which was less than both Thomas and Gipson
The NFL.com report stated however that the key to his game, when he played, was his intinctiveness and versatility.
In fact, because of his injury, they...and he...didn't think he would be drafted.
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Gipson is fluid, athletic, and quick on the field. He's more instinctive and covers better than Shamarko, unless the latter has untapped skills his college team chose not to use.
Keep in mind that Gipson has won over two different defensive regimes. He's a find. Again, that and $4 will get you a Venti drip but it's not something you just throw away or even bench.
You want a FS who can cover. Ask Ronde Barber, who converted from CB in his last year and made #55 on the top 100 before retiring (and becoming ineligible). Both Gipson and Bademosi can play corner... doubt that's true of Shamarko.
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Gipson is counted on to be the STARTER. Thomas is not.
Thomas ran about 4.4 in the 40, Gipson about a 5.2
Thomas did 28 reps in the bench press at the Combine, more than Ziggy Ansah and Kevin Minter, two high front 7 defense draft pics. I doubt Gipson was anywhere close to that.
Mingo refused to lift in his pro day or at the Combine, and i am sure if he did, it would be much less than thomas.
I double checked, because I knew I could not trust your stats.
Thomas ran a 4.45 40, Gipson ran a 4.6. Thomas did bench press 28 reps, which is very high for a DB....but Gipson pressed 23 reps, which is also high.
Thomas had a little better vertical leap.
And, FYI, you are full of shit if you don't think Thomas is to be expected to be the eventual starter. Point of fact is NFL.com has him as a strong safety, not a FS. So those two don't even play the same position. Thus....he was taken by the Steelers specifically to be the replacement for Polamalu. He is expected in the future to be a key component of the Steelers defense.
Gipson wasn't expected to be anything but training camp fodder. He got his position with no expectations whatsoever.
Now, if he turns out not to be FS starting material, so be it. Someone better will have to come along and beat him out...and it would merely be what was expected all along. So he is already far "ahead of the game".
Thomas, on the other hand, sits in the same position as McFadden....he is required by virtue of the investment made in him to be good.
I double checked, because I knew I could not trust your stats.
Thomas ran a 4.45 40, Gipson ran a 4.6. Thomas did bench press 28 reps, which is very high for a DB....but Gipson pressed 23 reps, which is also high.
Thomas had a little better vertical leap.
And, FYI, you are full of shit if you don't think Thomas is to be expected to be the eventual starter. Point of fact is NFL.com has him as a strong safety, not a FS. So those two don't even play the same position. Thus....he was taken by the Steelers specifically to be the replacement for Polamalu. He is expected in the future to be a key component of the Steelers defense.
Gipson wasn't expected to be anything but training camp fodder. He got his position with no expectations whatsoever.
Now, if he turns out not to be FS starting material, so be it. Someone better will have to come along and beat him out...and it would merely be what was expected all along. So he is already far "ahead of the game".
Thomas, on the other hand, sits in the same position as McFadden....he is required by virtue of the investment made in him to be good.
Uh, I'm talking about Shamarko Thomas, Pittsburgh's Lombardi draft choice, not Philip Thomas. Shamarko Thomas ran a 4.37 and 4.42 40 at the combine and did 28 reps. Don't know where you got a 4.6 for Gipson, but his Pro Day time was 4.61, slow, but that's about what Kenny Vaccaro ran at the Combine. Also, Thomas did a vertical leap of of over 40 vs. 35 for Gipson. Thomas can really jump.
Re Gipson and cannon fodder, actually, he was a pretty good player in college, he just didn't stand out extraordinarily. When one looks at all the elements surroudning Gipson, I just don't expect him to be an outstanding free ssafety, and I think the Browns need one to capitalize and take advante of hte increased presure on the QB.
Speaking of pressure on the QB, did you know that the Browns last year had the same number of sacks as Horton's ballyhooed pressure defense in Arizona?
And speaking of idiocy, I see your immature friends keep changing my board name. I'm sure it's lots of laughs for their 5 year old minds. In places like Egypt, China, Iran and Syria tyranny is alive and well as a criminal element tries to maintain control and stifle opposing views. On this board, if you are not part of the rah-rah crowd clearly you are treated as evil. But free speech is an American right and Browns fans have a right to express their frustations with management when they feel they are doing wrong and to offer suggestions and warnings.
And if your friends don't stop it, here's a potential storyline for the print and TV news media in Cleveland: "Parents in northeast Ohio are always concenred about what their kids read on the internet. Now we learn that something as innocent looking as a Cleveland Browns chat board, one that is affilaited with the Browns, is filled with vulgarities, suggestive photos and other questionable content that your kids may be viewing. Stay tuned for the story at 6 PM."
Keep it up and you may not have a chat board much longer.
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And speaking of idiocy, I see your immature friends keep changing my board name. I'm sure it's lots of laughs for their 5 year old minds. In places like Egypt, China, Iran and Syria tyranny is alive and well as a criminal element tries to maintain control and stifle opposing views. On this board, if you are not part of the rah-rah crowd clearly you are treated as evil. But free speech is an American right and Browns fans have a right to express their frustations with management when they feel they are doing wrong and to offer suggestions and warnings.
And if your friends don't stop it, here's a potential storyline for the print and TV news media in Cleveland: "Parents in northeast Ohio are always concenred about what their kids read on the internet. Now we learn that something as innocent looking as a Cleveland Browns chat board, one that is affilaited with the Browns, is filled with vulgarities, suggestive photos and other questionable content that your kids may be viewing. Stay tuned for the story at 6 PM."
Keep it up and you may not have a chat board much longer.
And thus ended the Skeptical2013/Assclown/SkepticalOne/Assmunch era.
We'll run the site any damn way we seem fit.
I actually wanted to keep this guy around because, despite his negativity, he was spurring some off-season conversation.
But ... you threaten the site ... you bought your walking papers.
See ya, Asshole.
Admin
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I double checked, because I knew I could not trust your stats.
Thomas ran a 4.45 40, Gipson ran a 4.6. Thomas did bench press 28 reps, which is very high for a DB....but Gipson pressed 23 reps, which is also high.
Thomas had a little better vertical leap.
And, FYI, you are full of shit if you don't think Thomas is to be expected to be the eventual starter. Point of fact is NFL.com has him as a strong safety, not a FS. So those two don't even play the same position. Thus....he was taken by the Steelers specifically to be the replacement for Polamalu. He is expected in the future to be a key component of the Steelers defense.
Gipson wasn't expected to be anything but training camp fodder. He got his position with no expectations whatsoever.
Now, if he turns out not to be FS starting material, so be it. Someone better will have to come along and beat him out...and it would merely be what was expected all along. So he is already far "ahead of the game".
Thomas, on the other hand, sits in the same position as McFadden....he is required by virtue of the investment made in him to be good.
Uh, I'm talking about Shamarko Thomas, Pittsburgh's Lombardi draft choice, not Philip Thomas. Shamarko Thomas ran a 4.37 and 4.42 40 at the combine and did 28 reps. Don't know where you got a 4.6 for Gipson, but his Pro Day time was 4.61, slow, but that's about what Kenny Vaccaro ran at the Combine. Also, Thomas did a vertical leap of of over 40 vs. 35 for Gipson. Thomas can really jump.
Re Gipson and cannon fodder, actually, he was a pretty good player in college, he just didn't stand out extraordinarily. When one looks at all the elements surroudning Gipson, I just don't expect him to be an outstanding free ssafety, and I think the Browns need one to capitalize and take advante of hte increased presure on the QB.
Speaking of pressure on the QB, did you know that the Browns last year had the same number of sacks as Horton's ballyhooed pressure defense in Arizona?
And speaking of idiocy, I see your immature friends keep changing my board name. I'm sure it's lots of laughs for their 5 year old minds. In places like Egypt, China, Iran and Syria tyranny is alive and well as a criminal element tries to maintain control and stifle opposing views. On this board, if you are not part of the rah-rah crowd clearly you are treated as evil. But free speech is an American right and Browns fans have a right to express their frustations with management when they feel they are doing wrong and to offer suggestions and warnings.
And if your friends don't stop it, here's a potential storyline for the print and TV news media in Cleveland: "Parents in northeast Ohio are always concenred about what their kids read on the internet. Now we learn that something as innocent looking as a Cleveland Browns chat board, one that is affilaited with the Browns, is filled with vulgarities, suggestive photos and other questionable content that your kids may be viewing. Stay tuned for the story at 6 PM."
Keep it up and you may not have a chat board much longer.
Uh, I'm talking about Shamarko Thomas, Pittsburgh's Lombardi draft choice, not Philip Thomas.
I was talking about Shamarko Thomas....I may have simply mixed up what school he went too. What school did he go to? Who cares?
Shamarko Thomas ran a 4.37 and 4.42 40 at the combine and did 28 reps. Don't know where you got a 4.6 for Gipson, but his Pro Day time was 4.61, slow,
Are you fucking shitting me AssHat? A 4.61 is a 4.6. I merely slightly rounded. Did you ever take a math class?
but that's about what Kenny Vaccaro ran at the Combine.
And Vaccaro was considered the best Safety available.
Also, Thomas did a vertical leap of of over 40 vs. 35 for Gipson. Thomas can really jump.
Since he is 5 inches shorter than everyone else, he will have to.
Re Gipson and cannon fodder, actually, he was a pretty good player in college, he just didn't stand out extraordinarily. When one looks at all the elements surroudning Gipson, I just don't expect him to be an outstanding free ssafety, and I think the Browns need one to capitalize and take advante of hte increased presure on the QB.
He wasn't considered good enough to be drafted. He was picked up with 20-25 other UDFAs......but he was the one (or two) that was good enough to be kept. So he came from no expectations whatsoever.
Speaking of pressure on the QB, did you know that the Browns last year had the same number of sacks as Horton's ballyhooed pressure defense in Arizona?
I don't recall Arizona being ballyhooed for their pressure defense......I don't recall that they had any decent players on that team that could rush the passer. That may certainly be quite different here with some potential top pass rushers. A coach still has to have players you know.
And speaking of idiocy, I see your immature friends keep changing my board name. I'm sure it's lots of laughs for their 5 year old minds. In places like Egypt, China, Iran and Syria tyranny is alive and well as a criminal element tries to maintain control and stifle opposing views. On this board, if you are not part of the rah-rah crowd clearly you are treated as evil. But free speech is an American right and Browns fans have a right to express their frustations with management when they feel they are doing wrong and to offer suggestions and warnings.
And if your friends don't stop it, here's a potential storyline for the print and TV news media in Cleveland: "Parents in northeast Ohio are always concenred about what their kids read on the internet. Now we learn that something as innocent looking as a Cleveland Browns chat board, one that is affilaited with the Browns, is filled with vulgarities, suggestive photos and other questionable content that your kids may be viewing. Stay tuned for the story at 6 PM."
Keep it up and you may not have a chat board much longer.
First off, take your crybaby whining up with Zombo if you don't like what he did to your name. Also....be aware that Z rarely takes this step. You have to be some kind of pluperfect pain in the ass for Z to get a special name designation from him. You are the first Non-Steeler fan I know to have this happen.
Next....you are quite the contradiction. First you whine about what you say not being given respect....then you complain that we are acting like some dictatorship that is attempting to keep you from exercising your free speech. Then, apparently you turn around and advocate for the repression of free speech.
So what exactly are you? A communist, a fascist, a nudist, a Republican. You want things to be free and open for you....and when they are and you get your ass handed to you in an argument you want the other people here to be silenced..
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And speaking of idiocy, I see your immature friends keep changing my board name. I'm sure it's lots of laughs for their 5 year old minds. In places like Egypt, China, Iran and Syria tyranny is alive and well as a criminal element tries to maintain control and stifle opposing views. On this board, if you are not part of the rah-rah crowd clearly you are treated as evil. But free speech is an American right and Browns fans have a right to express their frustations with management when they feel they are doing wrong and to offer suggestions and warnings.
And if your friends don't stop it, here's a potential storyline for the print and TV news media in Cleveland: "Parents in northeast Ohio are always concenred about what their kids read on the internet. Now we learn that something as innocent looking as a Cleveland Browns chat board, one that is affilaited with the Browns, is filled with vulgarities, suggestive photos and other questionable content that your kids may be viewing. Stay tuned for the story at 6 PM."
Keep it up and you may not have a chat board much longer.
And thus ended the Skeptical2013/Assclown/SkepticalOne/Assmunch era.
We'll run the site any damn way we seem fit.
I actually wanted to keep this guy around because, despite his negativity, he was spurring some off-season conversation.
But ... you threaten the site ... you bought your walking papers.
See ya, Asshole.
Admin
And thus ended the Skeptical2013/Assclown/SkepticalOne/Assmunch era.
We'll run the site any damn way we seem fit.
I actually wanted to keep this guy around because, despite his negativity, he was spurring some off-season conversation.
But ... you threaten the site ... you bought your walking papers.
See ya, Asshole.
Admin
I guess the guy wanted some kind of Orwellian Society....but he wanted to play the role of Big Brother and try to bring the thought police down here.
Yes, the guy made points......incessantly, infernally, eternally, continuously, repeatedly.
Sure, fine, we don't know if the Browns DBs are going to be all that great.....but he felt that he KNEW that they weren't. And everybody elses team was definitely better than the Browns. Well, sure, they have been for a few years....but maybe not now.
State your piece, make your argument, and move on. Some will agree with you, others won't. TCPO agreed with him, OK....but he wasn't totally obnixious about it to the point of anhialation (sp?)
Honestly, my opinion wasn't that I disagreed with him.....but that he was so disagreeable that you felt the necessity to disagree with him.
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I'm not a chronic rah-rah. Try to be honest, say how I feel. But if you're just reflexively negative on anything the team does and in love with anything they don't do... well, that gets really depressing. I don't see the point of it. This is my hobby, basically, and I don't want it to be about misery until it has to be.
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I think he had to be a POS liberal.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
"Browns, vulgarities, and suggestive photos."
what more could a man ask for?
btw, I feel like a real perv already amassing one warning point.
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Hey assmunch...
Where do you get off talking so bad about Cameron...? He's only going into his 3rd season, and hasn't even had the opportunity to start. Take a look, maybe a reminder...
Not exactly stellar I understand, but look at all the garbage routes he was running. He was never put in a position to use all his natural athleticism to make plays, but I think you'll see that change. Argue if you'd like, but I think Cameron is in store for a major breakout season...
Davis will be used as a TE2, mostly blocking and in the redzone, and Barnidge is a TE3. Not sure how much more we need...
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I think he had to be a POS liberal.
I think he had to be a POS liberal.
Vaguely funny, you POS conservative!!
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It's amazing looking at this roster and where some of these guys were drafted...
Starting Offense - 4 1st rounders (Weeden, Richardson ,Thomas, Mack), 3 2nd rounders (Little, Gordon, Schwartz), 1 3rd rounder (Greco), 1 4th rounder (Cameron), and 1 5th rounder (Pinkston)... not sure who our 11th starter will be, could be 4th round Marecic at FB or UDFA Bess at WR
Starting Defense - 3 1st rounders (Haden, Taylor, Mingo), 3 2nd rounders (Ward, DQ, Kruger), 1 3rd rounder (McFadden), 1 6th rounder (Rubin), 3 UDFAs (Gipson, Robertson, Bryant)
Depth - 1 1st rounder (Campbell), 4 2nd rounders (Hardesty, BJax, Groves, Sheard), 5 3rd rounders (Owens, Hughes, Cousins, Lauvao, Butler), 2 4th rounders (Benjamin, JMJ)
23-25 guys will make this team who were drafted in the first 3 rounds...That's one way of looking at the talent on this team...
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I don't think Mingo will start, Sheard will, with Mingo used strictly as a situational pass rusher his first year.
Z
Zombo said:
I don't think Mingo will start, Sheard will, with Mingo used strictly as a situational pass rusher his first year.
Z
Well that makes 2 1st rounders, and 4 second rounders starting on D... if that's the case...
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Zombo said:
I don't think Mingo will start, Sheard will, with Mingo used strictly as a situational pass rusher his first year.
Z
Well that makes 2 1st rounders, and 4 second rounders starting on D... if that's the case...
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