Preseason Opener Thursday Night!
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I'm not so worried about this shin thing with Richardson, I think they're just making sure he is 100% ready to go for the regular season.
I heard a stat that the Browns were #2 in the league last season in offensive snaps facing more than 7 in the box so I agree that a good running back can compliment a QB very well, especially with the offense they plan to run.
After all, Elway never won a Super Bowl before he had Terrell Davis.
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Right- except for some misguided souls like PG, everyone has come to believe (especially in today's NFL), the RB position has been devalued.
I said it right after the T-Rich pick, he had not better just be merely good, he had better be upper echelon HOF to justify taking him @ #3, and not only that- giving up picks on top of it. And now he's got a shin owie, and isn't playing I fear we drafted a China Doll.
Jim Brown and Walter Payton combined have two rings to show for their efforts- LaDanian Tomlinson who in my mind is a lock for the Hall, got shut out. He's got better credentials than Jackson- who might just suffer from Archie Manning syndrome in his HOF bid.
Well, off to the Northland for the Preseason Opener- Happy Trails, guys.
Yes. Shep seems to think that it is Passing game versus Running game in the NFL, but it's not, it's Passing game and running game in the NFL.
They are complementary. If you have success at one, it makes the other better.
You can't win without a good quarterback, good running backs are a commodity. When you find that good quarterback, you are going to need commodities all over the field on both sides of the ball ... that's the difference between a good team with a good quarterback and a champion.
We sunk a high draft pick into a running back because there was no QB at #3 (or 4). We already had the left tackle and the shutdown corner. We had nothing at RB and there was a top talent sitting there. Now the hope is that we have a valuable commodity at that position for 5 or 6 years while we continue to find that quarterback. If there was a WR rated that high and they took one I would have been OK with that as well, as he is a commodity.
Everyone wants the franchise QB. But you have to keep shopping for valuable guys around him even before you know if you have him. We went all in at RB. It doesn't mean we are going to build our offense around a running back, it means we filled a position with a top rated player. It's a good thing.
Ryan Tannehill was not worth our 4th pick ... I have serious doubts he'll be better than Weeden. We'll see. Either way, having a really good running back is a nice thing.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Yes. Shep seems to think that it is Passing game versus Running game in the NFL, but it's not, it's Passing game and running game in the NFL.
They are complementary. If you have success at one, it makes the other better.
You can't win without a good quarterback, good running backs are a commodity. When you find that good quarterback, you are going to need commodities all over the field on both sides of the ball ... that's the difference between a good team with a good quarterback and a champion.
We sunk a high draft pick into a running back because there was no QB at #3 (or 4). We already had the left tackle and the shutdown corner. We had nothing at RB and there was a top talent sitting there. Now the hope is that we have a valuable commodity at that position for 5 or 6 years while we continue to find that quarterback. If there was a WR rated that high and they took one I would have been OK with that as well, as he is a commodity.
Everyone wants the franchise QB. But you have to keep shopping for valuable guys around him even before you know if you have him. We went all in at RB. It doesn't mean we are going to build our offense around a running back, it means we filled a position with a top rated player. It's a good thing.
Ryan Tannehill was not worth our 4th pick ... I have serious doubts he'll be better than Weeden. We'll see. Either way, having a really good running back is a nice thing.
Zombo
I go back to the Steelers, mid 00s: Do you think that all the difference in that team was a rookie QB that let them go 15-1 his rookie year, then win the SB in his second year. (In which he played fairly poorly). Hell no. They did just what you said: built the RB/WR/OL/Defense etc. all up around his ears. When BR got there, he finally made them a complete team....that maybe could have done almost as well with Tommy Maddox or Charlie Batch. BR had just enough extra to push that team over the edge.
It is a 22 man team. Yes, the QB is the pilot that steers the rest of that team.. but, you can have a great pilot, but if the rest of the plane isn't running right you can still end up in the Hudson River. Ask Sully.
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"All Truth Passes Through Three stages. First, It Is Ridiculed, Second It Is Violently Opposed, And Third, It Is Accepted As Self-Evident" ~Arthur Schopenhauer
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Passing vs. Running: Here is the list of the Top 20 in Yards gained passing and in yards gained rushing, and the titles they each got:
Rushing:
Emmit Smith 3
Walter Payton 1
Barry Sanders 0
Curtis Martin 0
LaDanian Tomlinson 0
Jerome Bettis 1
Eric Dickerson 0
Tony Dorsett 1
Jim Brown 1
Marshall Faulk 1
Edgerrin James 0
Marcus Allen 1
Franco Harris 4
Thurman Thomas 0
Fred Taylor 0
John Riggins 1
Corey Dillon 1
OJ Simpson 0
Warrick Dunn 0
Ricky Watters 0
(does anyone think that Franco with he 4 titles is truly the best runner on this list?)
Passing:
Brett Favre 1
Dan Marino 0
Peyton Manning 1
John Elway 2
Warren Moon 0
Fran Tarkenton 0
Vinny Testaverde 0
Drew Brees 1
Tom Brady 3
Drew Bledsoe 0
Dan Fouts 0
Kerry Collins 0
Joe Montana 4
John Unitas 3
Dave Kreig 0
Boomer Esiason 0
Donovan McNabb 0
Jim Kelly 0
Jim Everett 0
Jim Hart 0
Here, the argument may be a little different. The Top 3 in titles on this list are Montana/Brady/Unitas. Is there any doubt that on anyone's list of the 5 greatest QBs of all time, those 3 are going to be on the list? And the guy with the next most on this list: Elway, would not also be up there?
Moral of the story: A QB is far more judge by the titles he directs his team to than a RB is. Franco and Emmit WERE vital commodities on dynasty teams. But those dynasties were sired more by the QBs than these RBs. (and by defense)
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Fair point!
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One thing I would do with Wheezy after he is done for the nite is send him up into the booth. Make him think about play calls and make him read the pre-snap Defense in lieu of holding a clip board on the sideline.
I Like your thinking. When he's not in there, let him see those opposing defenses from above.
Mike
I Like your thinking. When he's not in there, let him see those opposing defenses from above.
Mike
I couldn't hurt. That's for sure
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Passing vs. Running: Here is the list of the Top 20 in Yards gained passing and in yards gained rushing, and the titles they each got:
Rushing:
Emmit Smith 3
Walter Payton 1
Barry Sanders 0
Curtis Martin 0
LaDanian Tomlinson 0
Jerome Bettis 1
Eric Dickerson 0
Tony Dorsett 1
Jim Brown 1
Marshall Faulk 1
Edgerrin James 0
Marcus Allen 1
Franco Harris 4
Thurman Thomas 0
Fred Taylor 0
John Riggins 1
Corey Dillon 1
OJ Simpson 0
Warrick Dunn 0
Ricky Watters 0
(does anyone think that Franco with he 4 titles is truly the best runner on this list?)
Passing:
Brett Favre 1
Dan Marino 0
Peyton Manning 1
John Elway 2
Warren Moon 0
Fran Tarkenton 0
Vinny Testaverde 0
Drew Brees 1
Tom Brady 3
Drew Bledsoe 0
Dan Fouts 0
Kerry Collins 0
Joe Montana 4
John Unitas 3
Dave Kreig 0
Boomer Esiason 0
Donovan McNabb 0
Jim Kelly 0
Jim Everett 0
Jim Hart 0
Here, the argument may be a little different. The Top 3 in titles on this list are Montana/Brady/Unitas. Is there any doubt that on anyone's list of the 5 greatest QBs of all time, those 3 are going to be on the list? And the guy with the next most on this list: Elway, would not also be up there?
Moral of the story: A QB is far more judge by the titles he directs his team to than a RB is. Franco and Emmit WERE vital commodities on dynasty teams. But those dynasties were sired more by the QBs than these RBs. (and by defense)
Passing vs. Running: Here is the list of the Top 20 in Yards gained passing and in yards gained rushing, and the titles they each got:
Rushing:
Emmit Smith 3
Walter Payton 1
Barry Sanders 0
Curtis Martin 0
LaDanian Tomlinson 0
Jerome Bettis 1
Eric Dickerson 0
Tony Dorsett 1
Jim Brown 1
Marshall Faulk 1
Edgerrin James 0
Marcus Allen 1
Franco Harris 4
Thurman Thomas 0
Fred Taylor 0
John Riggins 1
Corey Dillon 1
OJ Simpson 0
Warrick Dunn 0
Ricky Watters 0
(does anyone think that Franco with he 4 titles is truly the best runner on this list?)
Passing:
Brett Favre 1
Dan Marino 0
Peyton Manning 1
John Elway 2
Warren Moon 0
Fran Tarkenton 0
Vinny Testaverde 0
Drew Brees 1
Tom Brady 3
Drew Bledsoe 0
Dan Fouts 0
Kerry Collins 0
Joe Montana 4
John Unitas 3
Dave Kreig 0
Boomer Esiason 0
Donovan McNabb 0
Jim Kelly 0
Jim Everett 0
Jim Hart 0
Here, the argument may be a little different. The Top 3 in titles on this list are Montana/Brady/Unitas. Is there any doubt that on anyone's list of the 5 greatest QBs of all time, those 3 are going to be on the list? And the guy with the next most on this list: Elway, would not also be up there?
Moral of the story: A QB is far more judge by the titles he directs his team to than a RB is. Franco and Emmit WERE vital commodities on dynasty teams. But those dynasties were sired more by the QBs than these RBs. (and by defense)
Well, again, it's not passing versus running .. it's passing working with running.
Franco has four titles ... what do you know, so does Terry Bradshaw!
Emmit Smith has three titles ... hey, so does Troy Aikman!
John Elway didn't get two until he had a better balanced team around him around him, Dan Marino never got one because he didn't have enough of a team around him.
IF Weeden is the answer ... he is walking into a good situation with Thomas, Richardson, Gordon and Little in place and good coaches who understand balanced offense. IMO. Let's hope ... and pray .. Weeds is the one.
If not, there is always next year.
Zombo
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IF Weeden is the answer ... he is walking into a good situation with Thomas, Richardson, Gordon and Little in place and good coaches who understand balanced offense. IMO. Let's hope ... and pray .. Weeds is the one.
I'm with you on this, for sure. I am sick of the "Let's get another QB in here" crap
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Shep always has a hard on for a new QB, especially one from CA.
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What's up with the draft and QB talk already? We haven't even played a game yet. I'm ready for some god dam football.
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What's up with the draft and QB talk already? We haven't even played a game yet. I'm ready for some god dam football.
What's up with the draft and QB talk already? We haven't even played a game yet. I'm ready for some god dam football.
For sure.
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How did this argument go from devalued RB position to RB vs. QB? It is blatantly obvious that QB is and always has been the most important position on the field; however, to blame Browns for not taking a QB instead of RB is a pointless argument. The only 2 QBs worthy of a top 5 pick were gone. We needed somebody to ignite the offense, and we got the 3rd best offensive player in that draft... IT's a FACT...
Get over it...
And those who wanted to give up more than the Redskins for RGIII... I'll just laugh ... We would have to have essentially given up TRich, Schwartz, Mingo, Gordon, and next year's first rounder to outmatch the Redskins... hmmm... I'm thinking the Rams should come out nicely in that trade...
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How did this argument go from devalued RB position to RB vs. QB? It is blatantly obvious that QB is and always has been the most important position on the field; however, to blame Browns for not taking a QB instead of RB is a pointless argument. The only 2 QBs worthy of a top 5 pick were gone. We needed somebody to ignite the offense, and we got the 3rd best offensive player in that draft... IT's a FACT...
Get over it...
And those who wanted to give up more than the Redskins for RGIII... I'll just laugh ... We would have to have essentially given up TRich, Schwartz, Mingo, Gordon, and next year's first rounder to outmatch the Redskins... hmmm... I'm thinking the Rams should come out nicely in that trade...
How did this argument go from devalued RB position to RB vs. QB? It is blatantly obvious that QB is and always has been the most important position on the field; however, to blame Browns for not taking a QB instead of RB is a pointless argument. The only 2 QBs worthy of a top 5 pick were gone. We needed somebody to ignite the offense, and we got the 3rd best offensive player in that draft... IT's a FACT...
Get over it...
And those who wanted to give up more than the Redskins for RGIII... I'll just laugh ... We would have to have essentially given up TRich, Schwartz, Mingo, Gordon, and next year's first rounder to outmatch the Redskins... hmmm... I'm thinking the Rams should come out nicely in that trade...
Plus, by the time all those picks get good, RG3 might be on his 3rd or 6th knee surgery
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Passing vs. Running: Here is the list of the Top 20 in Yards gained passing and in yards gained rushing, and the titles they each got:
Rushing:
Emmit Smith 3
Walter Payton 1
Barry Sanders 0
Curtis Martin 0
LaDanian Tomlinson 0
Jerome Bettis 1
Eric Dickerson 0
Tony Dorsett 1
Jim Brown 1
Marshall Faulk 1
Edgerrin James 0
Marcus Allen 1
Franco Harris 4
Thurman Thomas 0
Fred Taylor 0
John Riggins 1
Corey Dillon 1
OJ Simpson 0
Warrick Dunn 0
Ricky Watters 0
(does anyone think that Franco with he 4 titles is truly the best runner on this list?)
Passing:
Brett Favre 1
Dan Marino 0
Peyton Manning 1
John Elway 2
Warren Moon 0
Fran Tarkenton 0
Vinny Testaverde 0
Drew Brees 1
Tom Brady 3
Drew Bledsoe 0
Dan Fouts 0
Kerry Collins 0
Joe Montana 4
John Unitas 3
Dave Kreig 0
Boomer Esiason 0
Donovan McNabb 0
Jim Kelly 0
Jim Everett 0
Jim Hart 0
Here, the argument may be a little different. The Top 3 in titles on this list are Montana/Brady/Unitas. Is there any doubt that on anyone's list of the 5 greatest QBs of all time, those 3 are going to be on the list? And the guy with the next most on this list: Elway, would not also be up there?
Moral of the story: A QB is far more judge by the titles he directs his team to than a RB is. Franco and Emmit WERE vital commodities on dynasty teams. But those dynasties were sired more by the QBs than these RBs. (and by defense)
Well, again, it's not passing versus running .. it's passing working with running.
Franco has four titles ... what do you know, so does Terry Bradshaw!
Emmit Smith has three titles ... hey, so does Troy Aikman!
John Elway didn't get two until he had a better balanced team around him around him, Dan Marino never got one because he didn't have enough of a team around him.
IF Weeden is the answer ... he is walking into a good situation with Thomas, Richardson, Gordon and Little in place and good coaches who understand balanced offense. IMO. Let's hope ... and pray .. Weeds is the one.
If not, there is always next year.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Well, again, it's not passing versus running .. it's passing working with running.
Franco has four titles ... what do you know, so does Terry Bradshaw!
Emmit Smith has three titles ... hey, so does Troy Aikman!
John Elway didn't get two until he had a better balanced team around him around him, Dan Marino never got one because he didn't have enough of a team around him.
IF Weeden is the answer ... he is walking into a good situation with Thomas, Richardson, Gordon and Little in place and good coaches who understand balanced offense. IMO. Let's hope ... and pray .. Weeds is the one.
If not, there is always next year.
Zombo
What a stupid argument you are all having. Thank you Zombo for saying what many of us are thinking, and rightly so. It is a TEAM game. Those lists from Gipper are dumb but they do prove (if you read between the lines) that the best TEAMS win superbowls.
βThe Wait Is Over, The Browns Will Be In The Playoffs This Year!" -
On a more positive note I am excited to see how Dion Lewis does tonight. I am hoping he will be the unexpected x factor that gets us over the top and into the playoffs.
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Who the hell are we playing?
Bet Weeden gets more than a series since he's a little less than a starter (!). He needs the work. Give him a few series, coach.
Anyone else buy the NFL Preseason Live? I love watching on the iPad. Better to let it get ahead a ways and speed through the crap.
Who the hell are we playing?
Bet Weeden gets more than a series since he's a little less than a starter (!). He needs the work. Give him a few series, coach.
Anyone else buy the NFL Preseason Live? I love watching on the iPad. Better to let it get ahead a ways and speed through the crap.
I get the pre-season live package.....$20, you can't beat it....someone told me if you use promo code DirectTV, you get another $5 off, though I don't know if that is legit or not.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
If anybody has Directv or another carrier who carries NFL Network and doesn't spend the $20 on the pre-season live package, tonight's game in its entirety will air on Saturday morning at 7am est.
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Who the hell are we playing?
Bet Weeden gets more than a series since he's a little less than a starter (!). He needs the work. Give him a few series, coach.
Anyone else buy the NFL Preseason Live? I love watching on the iPad. Better to let it get ahead a ways and speed through the crap.
I get the pre-season live package.....$20, you can't beat it....someone told me if you use promo code DirectTV, you get another $5 off, though I don't know if that is legit or not.
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Dion looked pretty impressive that drive. Pretty elusive.
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Will the Tavern be open?
The Tavern will be open.
If anyone has television tips or internet links, post them here.
Let the Chud era begin with a crisp 80 yard TD drive and no major injuries ...
Zombo
Zombo said:
The Tavern will be open.
If anyone has television tips or internet links, post them here.
Let the Chud era begin with a crisp 80 yard TD drive and no major injuries ...
Zombo
Rec an odd 404 error when attempting to access the Tavern; could be due to Mrs Lister's old laptop I have to use at the moment....oh well
Nice opening drive by the O...really like the aggressive D
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