Government Shutdown Over Obamacare
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Well you actually did say that it was the Republicans refused to compromise so... And it was a much different scene back during the Clinton administration. Today I think more people realize that Obama is as responsible for whatever catastrophe the shutdown might bring. Personally I don't think there will be any real catastrophe but I'm sure the media with its zeal to shock people will make it seem that way.
WSS
They do refuse to compromise, as do the Dems. Personally I think the Dems should throw the Republicans a bone and let them save face (polls show most Americans blame Republicans for this, and perception is everything in politics, whether or not you agree that they are largely at fault) by agreeing to cut the medical device tax. And I agree, I don't think there will be any real catastrophe unless the shutdown is prolonged. People still are getting unpaid, my friend at the CDC for one, who said she will NOT be getting any back-pay either.
You know who shouldn't get paid, but will? Congress. Their salaries ought to be withheld until they pass a budget.
And yes, the media does, and always will, sensationalize everything.
They do refuse to compromise, as do the Dems. Personally I think the Dems should throw the Republicans a bone and let them save face (polls show most Americans blame Republicans for this, and perception is everything in politics, whether or not you agree that they are largely at fault) by agreeing to cut the medical device tax. And I agree, I don't think there will be any real catastrophe unless the shutdown is prolonged. People still are getting unpaid, my friend at the CDC for one, who said she will NOT be getting any back-pay either.
You know who shouldn't get paid, but will? Congress. Their salaries ought to be withheld until they pass a budget.
Of course withholding congressional pay is nothing but window dressing as is with holding the pay of any federal employee. Sooner or later they will get it all back. But if that is your compromise, throwing a bone in the shape of the medical device tax, it's not much of a compromise. It is the Democrats getting what they want. Do you think that there should be any real compromise? If so what would you do in a meaningful way?
WSS
And yes, the media does, and always will, sensationalize everything.
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They do refuse to compromise, as do the Dems. Personally I think the Dems should throw the Republicans a bone and let them save face (polls show most Americans blame Republicans for this, and perception is everything in politics, whether or not you agree that they are largely at fault) by agreeing to cut the medical device tax. And I agree, I don't think there will be any real catastrophe unless the shutdown is prolonged. People still are getting unpaid, my friend at the CDC for one, who said she will NOT be getting any back-pay either.
You know who shouldn't get paid, but will? Congress. Their salaries ought to be withheld until they pass a budget.
Of course withholding congressional pay is nothing but window dressing as is with holding the pay of any federal employee. Sooner or later they will get it all back. But if that is your compromise, throwing a bone in the shape of the medical device tax, it's not much of a compromise. It is the Democrats getting what they want. Do you think that there should be any real compromise? If so what would you do in a meaningful way?
WSS
And yes, the media does, and always will, sensationalize everything.
They do refuse to compromise, as do the Dems. Personally I think the Dems should throw the Republicans a bone and let them save face (polls show most Americans blame Republicans for this, and perception is everything in politics, whether or not you agree that they are largely at fault) by agreeing to cut the medical device tax. And I agree, I don't think there will be any real catastrophe unless the shutdown is prolonged. People still are getting unpaid, my friend at the CDC for one, who said she will NOT be getting any back-pay either.
You know who shouldn't get paid, but will? Congress. Their salaries ought to be withheld until they pass a budget.
Of course withholding congressional pay is nothing but window dressing as is with holding the pay of any federal employee. Sooner or later they will get it all back. But if that is your compromise, throwing a bone in the shape of the medical device tax, it's not much of a compromise. It is the Democrats getting what they want. Do you think that there should be any real compromise? If so what would you do in a meaningful way?
WSS
And yes, the media does, and always will, sensationalize everything.
I think you misunderstood me, the Republicans want the medical device tax taken out of Obamacare, and I'm saying the Dems should give them what they want on that. Aside from that, I'm not sure what else the Republican congress dislikes about Obamacare. When you poll the Republican electorate on the individual aspects of Obamacare, they support it. So please tell me (and I'm asking seriously), what is it specifically that Republicans don't like about it? If I understood that I could think about what areas could be compromised on.
The only reason I can see that the Republican congress would oppose this, despite popularity with their own constituents, is because the Republican congress is not representing their constituents, but instead a group of the largest insurance companies who do not want to see more market competition (an ideal I thought Republicans favored, as do I).
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The Republicans don't like Obamacare because it's the flagship of the Obama administration. Just as the Democrats will oppose every and anything a Republican president proposes whether or not they proposed it in a previous administration.everyone, of course, has their own reasons for liking or not liking it. Personally I'm not a huge fan of an insurance based health care system anyway. If it were up to me it would be pay as you go and perhaps catastrophic insurance to be available for extreme cases. I think that would eventually make healthcare market driven. I also think there should be severe tort reform. At least similar to the English system where the loser pays. The legal system these days is viewed as the lottery by to many.
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The Republicans don't like Obamacare because it's the flagship of the Obama administration. Just as the Democrats will oppose every and anything a Republican president proposes whether or not they proposed it in a previous administration. Everyone, of course, has their own reasons for liking or not liking it. Personally I'm not a huge fan of an insurance based health care system anyway. If it were up to me it would be pay as you go and perhaps catastrophic insurance to be available for extreme cases. I think that would eventually make healthcare market driven. If the consumer never has to consider the cost why would they try to make wise choices? I also think there should be severe tort reform. At least similar to the English system where the loser pays. The legal system these days is viewed as the lottery by too many. as far as competition through selling across state lines? Of course the insurance companies don't want that. How would you expect Massachusetts to compete with Iowa?
I also don't like everyone in America getting free stuff. It makes us all dependent and makes the politicians royalty.
Conversely I like being able to invest my money in insurance based financial products.
But I don't see competition between Democrats and Republicans hinging upon who can give more free stuff to different constituencies in order to keep political power a good and positive thing. If the citizens aren't beholding to the politicians the politicians have less power.
I realize there's no definitive answer so I'm probably about as clear as mud. But its political of course. You remember Obama denouncing Hillarys plan which included the public mandate?
WSS
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I would certainly like to see more market competition. I just don't see how is Obamacare going to accomplish that. The number of carriers has shrank significantly in the past 5 years, and I see it becoming stagnant. I could be wrong, but I think the rates are going to be very similar across the board, with the only changes being due to small plan design differences, because all of the plans have to have the same basic elements, as required by Obamacare. They also can't have more than a specific out of pocket maximum in a calendar year. Anyone going into the "Marketplace" to get insurance, because they are required to, will choose the cheapest plan, even if it is only by $20 a month. The carrier providing that cheaper plan will get a large piece of the pie just solely based on the premium. Will the smaller carriers be able to sustain themselves if one particular carrier is inundated with applications because their plan is cheaper? I am real anxious to see how this will play out and am looking forward to going into the Marketplace to check out the plans and rates....hopefully in the next few days when they get the tweaks out. It's going to be an eye opener, in my humble opinion.
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So you are saying the Republicans oppose it because they want to hurt Obama... That just makes me sad, and again, why we need to put in more centrists into office on both sides of the aisle.
As for how it can increase market competition, it is basic open-market mechanics. The bill introduces a new customer base into the insurance system who yes, will GENERALLY be looking for the cheapest insurance available. Therefore, the companies will compete to provide the cheapest insurance available until nobody can go any lower. It'll then come down to carving out niches in the market. Some will perhaps provide better vision care, which will appeal to people who wear glasses, others perhaps lower visit co-pays but higher drug co-pays, others perhaps vice-versa. Still others may have higher on both but cheaper hospital stay co-pays. It will come down to individuals picking the plan that best suits there need within their budget.
Either way, the competition will be good for the country.
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No, no, no.
For goodness sakes, the Obamao regime and plenty of dems admit it will cause millions to LOSE their insurance.
How in the hell in that good for competition?
If it's about "competition", why not have a superior program that people will want ? Instead of forcing other
companies to comply with all sorts of interference, fines, etc etc etc, for not complying?
And hell yes, it's about forcing coverage of abortions, and more. And, it's about enforcement by the corrupt IRS,
invading every American's private medical business.
And more. Asking who owns guns, blah blah.
I call bs.
What? Where does all this nonsense come from? Oh yeah, Obamao's regime, and places like moveonupObamao'sleg.com......
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No, no, no.
For goodness sakes, the Obamao regime and plenty of dems admit it will cause millions to LOSE their insurance.
How in the hell in that good for competition?
If it's about "competition", why not have a superior program that people will want ? Instead of forcing other
companies to comply with all sorts of interference, fines, etc etc etc, for not complying?
And hell yes, it's about forcing coverage of abortions, and more. And, it's about enforcement by the corrupt IRS,
invading every American's private medical business.
And more. Asking who owns guns, blah blah.
I call bs.
What? Where does all this nonsense come from? Oh yeah, Obamao's regime, and places like moveonupObamao'sleg.com......
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I think you are being a little naive when you tell me that you're sad that a political party would oppose another political party for political reasons. It happens in just about every situation.
of course they do try and keep a little ideological veneer on each of the parties ie Democrats giving things to the poor Republicans preaching self-sufficiency...
But I'm not talking about competition among the insurance companies. I'm talking about in general competition and market driven system doctors paid directly for their services and not being forced to send in a bill for thousands of dollars with the knowledge that they are only going to receive hundreds of that. Also every time the government subsidized is anything the prices go through the roof. Look at college tuition.
WSS
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Roger Daltrey --- "who are you?"
to review -
2009 - Senate sets budget through TARP at $862 billion - as a one time emergency stimulus...?
the democratic house / senate rams through the HCA behind closed doors and obamacare is born.
2010 a weary and distrustful constituency has a voice and says so in the sweeping house changeover.
the senate goes on year by year not passing a budget, and with obamas blessing keeps the "one time TARP" expenditure alive! ($862 billion borrowed every year)
so this administration and senate are drunk with its own wreckless actions in spending... wall street salivates...
2012 elections prove that there are way more people in denial, (the free shit agenda)
and when reality hit people in the face, that its time to stop spending - they become angry drunks!
and fall back on the proven credo - blame someone! this time the house republicans -specifically the vocal ones
so you want to increase the debt ceiling? the drunks and deniers see no other alternative and wont negotiate!
God help us.....
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Lol, DC is turning into White House Down.
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ey......Ceeskooooo....
I theenk you want to look at theese...
(Obamaocare premiums sticker shock )
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Oh yes. Speculation by Obama haters. Well that's all the proof I need.
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By the way someone making $8.55 an hour? Good chance they have no health care at all. Bitching about how they will come up with $3000 a year for health care? Classic. $3000/12 = $250 per month. I pay more than $12,000 a year currently, have no vision or dental and a $5000 / family deductable. Fuck you. I'll take $3000 a year in a god damn heartbeat.
Are you guys fucking delusional? The health care system. SUCKS as is.
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That's the cheapest plan, by the way. The HSA.
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I had an HSA and I liked it...
is that gone now?
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Our health care system in the finest in the world. People from all over the world come here for care.
Doctors from the US go all over the world.
If our health care system is so bad, dumbass, why do you want to pay any money
at all to take part in it?
shove your antagonism. You aren't making any sense. Were you able to sign up for it yet, dumbass? NO.
Another disaster. Another broken promise. I hope you can benefit from it, Cysko. but utopia
isn't all it's cracked up to be by this corrupt marxist pig regime. Obamaocare is a pyramid scheme.
In the long run, it can't possibly be afforded. Look at our national debt. Look at all the trouble it is
already causing those who DO have med insurance. I have outstanding health insurance for 600 a month.
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btw, cysko, this country isn't all about YOU and YOUR chance at getting a benefit regardless
of the damage this Obamao fiasco care will do.
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- Dems Admit Obamacare Will Cost US Companies Billions Posted by Jim Hoft on Tuesday, ... It is Obama’s fault that we are faced with crippling Obamacare fallout.www.thegatewaypundit.com/2010/04/dems-admit-obamacare... - Cached
- Dems admit ObamaCare = Socialism. Posted 2010/04/03 00:47:39; Read all 4 opinions; ... Will Zimmerman Always Have Problems With the Law? 77% voted Yes Do you agree?www.sodahead.com/united-states/dems-admit-obamacare... - Cached
- Doug Book: Dems Admit Obama's Not Eligible. Learn more about Barack Obama, Democrat Party, Obama Eligibility, Pennsylvania, Supreme Courtwww.westernjournalism.com/dems-admit-obama-not...dont-care - Cached
- Obama Admits There Will Be Problems With Obamacare Rollout; The Hill: “AnxiousDems Fear A Botched Implementation Of Obamacare ...mopns.com/2013/05/01/obama-admits-there-will-be-problems... - Cached
- GOP’s New Ad Tells Dems: Just Admit You Have a Spending Problem! Mar. 6, 2013 10:12am Becket Adams. ... Saturday Night Live Mocks Obamacare in Hilarious Skit 29.3K ...www.theblaze.com/.../06/gops-new-ad-tells-dems-just-admit... - Cached
- Dems Blast Tea Party 'Anarchists'-- But Admit 'Many of the Public Is AgainstObamacare' ... Schumer admitted that "many of the public is against Obamacare, ...cnsnews.com/.../dems...admit-many-public-against-obamacare - Cached
- Dems Admit to Cooking the Books: Dems Admit to Cooking the Books By Arnold Ahlert Last week, whether by accident or design, the Democrat party and the Obama ...www.raptureforums.com/FeaturedCommentary/demsadmitto... - Cached
- Democrats Finally Admitting Obamacare is Bad. 12/13/12 . From the Washington Examiner: Sixteen Democratic senators who voted for the Affordable Care Act are asking ...www.reagancoalition.com/...dems-obamacare-admit.html - Cached
- Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky. is intensifying calls for Democrats toadmit flaws in the Affordable Care Act as the law takes effect.thehill.com/.../health...dems-need-to-admit-obamacare-flaws - Cached
- Dems Outraged by GOP's ... then the law must be in bigger trouble than Democrats care to admit. ... ObamaCare is so complex that it also requires the services ...www.breitbart.com/.../06/WSJ-Dems-Outraged-By...Of-ObamaCare - Cached
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Obamaocare is what sucks, Cysko.
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- Sarah Palin is vindicated as more Democrats facing re-election admit that the Independent Payment Advisory Board, or IPAB, is a rationing body equivalent ...news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-obama-care/080913... - Cached
- Democrats Admit Sarah Palin’s “Death Panels” are ... in Obamacare was a deathpanel. ... a growing number of Democrats — many of whom face tough re-election ...www.libertyfirstnews.com/democrats-admit...death-panels... - Cached
- Obama Adviser Admits That Obamacare’s Death Panels ... admit it. I guess the liberals will now stop telling us we’re crazy for saying death panels will ...joemiller.us/2012/...admits-that-obamacares-death-panels... - Cached
- More results from answers.yahoo.com »[Oct 1, 2013] Was Sarah Palin right about death panels in Obamacare? Howard Dean, and some other Democrats, seem to think so. Writing in the Wall Street Journal, Dean ... ~ by Obama hood - Spread the Wealth ( 12 comments )answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131001065912AAdGM3h - Cached
- Jul 25, 2013. The federal government is ready to hire thousands of community activists, health care providers and union workers to serve as Obamacare “navigators.”www.libertyfirstnews.com/category/obamacare - Cached
- ObamaCare’s cost-cutting board — memorably called a “death panel” by Sarah Palin — is facing growing opposition from Democrats who say it will harm people ...thehill.com/.../316045-obamacare...opposition-from-democrats - Cached
- Dems admit: Yep, Death Panels are coming. Friday, ... The appointing of bureaucrats who would belong to something Libs said would never come: death panels.www.glennbeck.com/2013/05/17/dems-admit-yep-death-panels... - Cached
- Howard Dean Admits Obamacare Includes Death Panels, Wants Them Repealed. by ... getting rid of the IPAB is something Democrats and Republicans ought ...www.lifenews.com/2013/07/29/howard-dean-admits-obamacare... - Cached
- Opposition is growing from the Democrat's side of the aisle about the Obamacare deathpanels, also known as the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB ...www.breitbart.com/...Dems-Turn-on-Obamacare-Death-Panels - Cached
- Dems admit: Yep, Death Panels are coming. During a hearing, Democrats complained that Republicans were obstructing the process — what was that process?
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Dems Admit Obamacare Will Cost US ... about its new higher health-care costs, and there will be many more in the coming ... donate/d to Obama/Dems ...
www.thegatewaypundit.com/2010/04/dems-admit-obamacare... - Cached
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[Aug 22, 2013] Hi Dems, why is Obamacare far more expensive than promised?Dems, what happened to the projected savings? Now it's just cost increases. ~ by WJ ( 14 comments )answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130822102647AABxmis - Cached
Dems retreat on health care cost ... predictions that the health care legislation would grow more popular ... Dems Admit To Lying About Obama-Care ...sweetness-light.com/.../dems-admit-to-lying-about-obama-care - Cached
Dems Admit Obamacare Will Cost Companies Billions. ... Oh but HEY why should theDEMS care about a few 'inconvenient ... Hot Topics Barack Obama Weird News more ...www.sodahead.com/united-states/dems-admit-obamacare-will... - Cached
Doug Book: Dems Admit Obama's Not Eligible. Learn more about Barack Obama, Democrat Party, Obama Eligibility, Pennsylvania, Supreme Courtwww.westernjournalism.com/dems-admit-obama-not...dont-care - Cached
Democrats are finally getting around to reading the ObamaCare ... impact people farmore than House and Senate leaders would admit. So here we are, as more parts ...www.conservativedailynews.com/2012/...dems-read-obamacare... - Cached
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