Crabtree?
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Brown's are picking at #5 and Crabtree is still on the board. Most draft analysts say he may be the best player in the draft. He may be one of the few immediate impact players on the board. By impact, I mean a guy that can impact the number or W's and L's a team ends with.
Larry Fitzgerald type impact player. A player with great character and all the tools.
He's not a need for the Browns, who definately need defense, but he is a game changer. Can you afford to pass on him?
Receivers like this (great talent and small egos) don't come along very often and Edwards certainly hasn't shown he is a #1. Also, I can very easily see Edwards walking after this contract is up.
Curry is a solid LB and should be a very good fit. But, can you pass on a star for solid?
IMO, you take Crabtree. He is a definate #1 receiver and Edwards hasn't shown he can be that dependable #1 guy. Crabtree would also make Edwards a better receiver (he doesn't want to be regarded as a #2) and better option because he wouldn't get doubled all the time. How dynamic for Quinn...... Crabtree, Edwards and JJ or Cribbs in the slot and Winslow or Rucker at TE.
Also gives you some trade options without hurting the offense.
As far as defense, how about a guy like Barton and another FA to help solidify that unit. Some new blood and a new scheme can make that unit decent, not great. Picking Curry won't make it great either.
IMO, when the best player in the draft is there (need or not) you got to take him. You have Free Agency and also other picks in the draft for needs. You have some trade options to get additional picks also.
I see Fitzgerald and Boldin and slobber on myself thinking what Crabtree and Edwards would do to defenses. When I imagine Curry on defense I don't see that a team would have to game plan for him. No disrespect, Curry should be a very solid ILB in the 3-4. But..................................Crabtree, wow.
Brown's are picking at #5 and Crabtree is still on the board. Most draft analysts say he may be the best player in the draft. He may be one of the few immediate impact players on the board. By impact, I mean a guy that can impact the number or W's and L's a team ends with.
Larry Fitzgerald type impact player. A player with great character and all the tools.
He's not a need for the Browns, who definately need defense, but he is a game changer. Can you afford to pass on him?
Receivers like this (great talent and small egos) don't come along very often and Edwards certainly hasn't shown he is a #1. Also, I can very easily see Edwards walking after this contract is up.
Curry is a solid LB and should be a very good fit. But, can you pass on a star for solid?
IMO, you take Crabtree. He is a definate #1 receiver and Edwards hasn't shown he can be that dependable #1 guy. Crabtree would also make Edwards a better receiver (he doesn't want to be regarded as a #2) and better option because he wouldn't get doubled all the time. How dynamic for Quinn...... Crabtree, Edwards and JJ or Cribbs in the slot and Winslow or Rucker at TE.
Also gives you some trade options without hurting the offense.
As far as defense, how about a guy like Barton and another FA to help solidify that unit. Some new blood and a new scheme can make that unit decent, not great. Picking Curry won't make it great either.
IMO, when the best player in the draft is there (need or not) you got to take him. You have Free Agency and also other picks in the draft for needs. You have some trade options to get additional picks also.
I see Fitzgerald and Boldin and slobber on myself thinking what Crabtree and Edwards would do to defenses. When I imagine Curry on defense I don't see that a team would have to game plan for him. No disrespect, Curry should be a very solid ILB in the 3-4. But..................................Crabtree, wow.
Great Post Y-town, we agree on something
You are correct that Crabtree IMO will be a special player (Great) and if I am drafting I take a player like Crabtree with a chance to be great over a guy like Curry who will be a solid pro IMO but not a game changing type player which is what we need, and the only guys I see in this draft that are game changing players are Crabtree, Harvin and Maclin and # 5 is too early to take Maclin or Harvin
You are 100% correct what you say about Curry who I believe will be a good solid player but not a great player and really how much better are we going to improve on defense with just adding Curry when we require at least 2 pass rushers from the outside linebacker positions.
Barton I feel is too slow though he is solid and a run stuffer, he might be a good choice to use as a 1st-2nd down linebacker, but I believe this team needs to add speed on defense as we are a very slow defense at LB and DB
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would crabtree improve our offense? yes, without a doubt.
the question we have to ask is what makes crabtree a great receiver. is it his speed? is he incredibly physical? is it his size? is he shifty, agile, hard to contain? leaping ability? ability to adjust to the ball and catch it no matter where it's thrown? does he run great routes?
a true number one receiver needs to run superior routes, be able to adjust to the ball and catch it no matter where it's thrown, and have at least one of the other qualities; he needs to either be a great leaper, have great size, be ridiculously physical, have great size, be shifty and hard to contain or have truly elite speed.
i haven't watched crabtree play a lot, so i'm looking for some input. what makes him great?
a true number one receiver needs to run superior routes, be able to adjust to the ball and catch it no matter where it's thrown, and have at least one of the other qualities; he needs to either be a great leaper, have great size, be ridiculously physical, have great size, be shifty and hard to contain or have truly elite speed.
i haven't watched crabtree play a lot, so i'm looking for some input. what makes him great?
Isn't this the exact same description the "experts "use to describe Calvin Johnson?
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Crabtree is good and these type of guys dont come around in the draft that often. Braylon Edwards was a 1st rounder and he is only above average. But if you add Crabtree in there and the aspect of BE may leave thru FA when his contract is up then you have his replacement.
But just think if you have a Crabtree along with BE & K2 Now that is a threat!
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He is the type of layer that makes me feel like this, " I dont think wr is our weekest point or our biggest need...... But ill be damned if he doesn't make our Offence look very VERY VERY interesting..."
K2 BE MC and JH with BQ throwing the rock..... shits like clevage... I cant turn away!
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I also believe that Braylon Might Walk after his contract is up, but we have some amazing receiver draft classes coming up in the next few years. There will be players better than crabtree in the next few drafts, believe me, especially guys like this....
Dez Bryant
They dont make them any Bigger, and any Faster than this guys. If he was entering this year he'd be top 5. Look at those hands as well!
Theres your braylon replacement
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D-E-F-E-N-S-E
I agree 100% that this team needs to vastly improve its defense. MY question is do you pass on a guy tagged as a superstar for a guy that is noted as being solid? Who will impact the W/L column the best? How solid would a defensive player picked at #37 be?
In FA I can get a Crowder or a Scott who are better then solid, as Curry is being talked about. But, I can't find a Crabtree in FA.
I'm not saying that you should always pick the best available or highest rated player on your list over need, but when their is a vast dfference on how high they are rated, then I think you have to consider who would have the greater influence on wins and losses.
There's no right definitive answer. It all depends how high you are on a player and how much you think he can improve your team. Also do you feel that someone at #37 could help you just as much. We need to acquire more draft picks and be active in FA, then you can have this conversation closer to draft day.
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I watch teams like the Steelers and I see them pick the best player available, not for need. They always seem to be picking the highest rated player on their board. Noted that these teams aren't usually picking in the top 10, but they don't usually pick for need.
I reason I started this thread is because NFL teams are torn on this concept. I believe this is a league with a salary cap, free agency and teams have a good amount of turnover every year.
IMO, I think you can take the best player available and can suppliment position needs through FA. Also once you get past the first round where their may be super impact type players, then you have a combination of best player available with an eye toward needs. If you need a LB and in the second round your high person on the board is a DT but two people away is a solid LB and they grade out about the same, then you take the LB.
Your opinions are very insightful because I have a problem passing on a guy that is rated way higher then the next guy on my board because of a need. If a guy like Ray Lewis in on the board with Crabtree and they are rated very close to each other, then I take the need, but I just don't think there is a defensive player who rates close to Crabtree.
BTW, Seattle has greater needs then a WR. Are they going to pick for greatest need or best player available?
Personally I believe we are in the position we are in because we have historically drafted for need and passed on the best players available. One word..................Wimbley and look at what we passed on.
IMO, I think you can take the best player available and can suppliment position needs through FA. Also once you get past the first round where their may be super impact type players, then you have a combination of best player available with an eye toward needs. I
I agree and have been saying so for years.
FA is all about needs. Teams don't sign the BPA in FA, they sign guys they need.
Unless the pick makes absolutely no sense at all....BPA is a qb, and you have a pro-bowl qb....take the best player. Period.
First picks are usually signed to 6-7 year deals.....your needs now won't be like that in 5 years.
If you have 2 players rated the same, sure, use immediate needs as the guide, but for the long term health of the team, you are goofy not to select the BPA.
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Crabtree is like every other over hyped WR. They play good in college, not in the NFL. Crabtree doesn't have blazing fast speed, has ok height, and absolutely no body mass behind him and will be pushed all over the NFL field. I doubt the guy even gets off the line of scrimmage against a decent NFL CB.
Why all the hate on Braylon Edwards? The guy was absolutely one of the BEST Wide Recievers in 2007. 2008 comes around, he gets stepped on by Donte, and is sidelined. He plays the first few games with a torn open ankle. He plays the first few games with an offensive line not protecting the QB, letting him get hit after every single throw. He plays the first few games getting laid out by DA balls, and injures his shoulder. He is no playing on a flesh wound on the back of his ankle being restiched every week, and a bum shoulder. The guy plays tough, just has mental issues w/ getting nailed everytime he catches the ball across the middle.
Randy Moss didn't play too hot in Oakland. Chad Johnson has had "off" year, TO has had off years, all the good WR's aren't going to give you a 1200yards season w/ 16TDs every year.
Who ever is casting a vote to trade Edwards is an absolute complete idiot and should turn in their browns hat and jersey, because they have no idea on football.
Last I recall Quinn didn't exactly have a stellar first few starts, and this is the guy who was coming otu of College and was "NFL ready". What happened to NFL ready? Only game he looked good in was the game they let him dink and dunk Joe Montana style to save him from having to throw down field. What was quinns longest complettion out of 3 games and how many times did he do that? last time I remember Quinn throwing deep was in pre-season to Steptoe and it was thrown SHORT, PICKED OFF, and Steptoe stripped it out he guys arms and ran it. Should we trade Quinn too beause he didn't live up to his hype?
Get a grip on reality, You draft Crabtree and this is year #2 we didn't have a first round pick, because he is a waste of a pick.
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Zombo said:
I think it's a real good idea too, I just don't get into the draft until about month before. From what I have seen of Crabtree though, I don't know how you pass on him.Zombo
He looks like a stud. I was surprised yesterday to hear Skip Bayless on ESPN saying he thinks Crabtree isn't a good top 5 pick. I LOVED watching Texas Tech play because they had another Wes Welker clone (named Morris???) and of course Crabtree was Mr Playmaker. I mistakenly put Kiper down in lieu of Bayless but I think Kiper has Crabtree as his #1 WR right now.
Bayless's concerns and don't shoot the mesenger that disgrees with him but he said he's seen more than 1 team able to shut down Crabtree. He obviously wasn't referring to Texas because Crabtree was the reason they played Ohio State instead of Florida.
This year I can't make up my mind because we have more holes than a golf course. However, I'm getting so sick of seeing a passive 3-4 that Curry is my favorite choice on defense.
On the other hand, our offense couldn't score a TD for 6 weeks so it would be nice to see a Crabtree or Harvin opposite Edwards. Harvin might open up more options in our offense because he took somehandoffs from the QB this year. I think after he goes to the Indy combines and runs the most impressive 40s and outbenchpresses everyone - he'll be one of the fast risers. Anyone that has seen Florida play understands WHO their goto guy was when it was crunch time. Right now, he's the most underrated kid in the first round. Bayless might have mentioned that too - I just didn't have enough coffee in my ass to retain more than hearing Bayless say he thinks Crabtree is overrated.
Knowhson Moreno could add some hone run threat to our backfield BUT I've seen good RBs landing on teams long after round 1. Marlon Lucky from Nebraska might be worth exploring in round 2 or 3. He looked great in last week's all star game.
- Tom F.
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Crabtree is like every other over hyped WR. They play good in college, not in the NFL. Crabtree doesn't have blazing fast speed, has ok height, and absolutely no body mass behind him and will be pushed all over the NFL field. I doubt the guy even gets off the line of scrimmage against a decent NFL CB.
Why all the hate on Braylon Edwards? The guy was absolutely one of the BEST Wide Recievers in 2007. 2008 comes around, he gets stepped on by Donte, and is sidelined. He plays the first few games with a torn open ankle. He plays the first few games with an offensive line not protecting the QB, letting him get hit after every single throw. He plays the first few games getting laid out by DA balls, and injures his shoulder. He is no playing on a flesh wound on the back of his ankle being restiched every week, and a bum shoulder. The guy plays tough, just has mental issues w/ getting nailed everytime he catches the ball across the middle.
Randy Moss didn't play too hot in Oakland. Chad Johnson has had "off" year, TO has had off years, all the good WR's aren't going to give you a 1200yards season w/ 16TDs every year.
Who ever is casting a vote to trade Edwards is an absolute complete idiot and should turn in their browns hat and jersey, because they have no idea on football.
Last I recall Quinn didn't exactly have a stellar first few starts, and this is the guy who was coming otu of College and was "NFL ready". What happened to NFL ready? Only game he looked good in was the game they let him dink and dunk Joe Montana style to save him from having to throw down field. What was quinns longest complettion out of 3 games and how many times did he do that? last time I remember Quinn throwing deep was in pre-season to Steptoe and it was thrown SHORT, PICKED OFF, and Steptoe stripped it out he guys arms and ran it. Should we trade Quinn too beause he didn't live up to his hype?
Get a grip on reality, You draft Crabtree and this is year #2 we didn't have a first round pick, because he is a waste of a pick.
Why all the hate on Braylon Edwards?
Who ever is casting a vote to trade Edwards is an absolute complete idiot and should turn in their browns hat and jersey, because they have no idea on football.
All the hate is due to his butterfingers.
You talk about an "off year," but Braylon has had nothing but off years except for 2007. I won't call you an idiot, but it is somewhat idiotic to base your assessment of Bray on one "on year" that he had. What about 2005? 2006? His college days? Every scouting report from here to Moscow stated that Bray had alot of "concentration issues," which I translate as "hearing footsteps." That much is clear. He definitely is very hesitant to take a hit, but what really causes me to scratch my head are those bombs with no footsteps to hear that just roll off of his fingers.
His play in college, 2005, 2006, and 2008 is quite an overwhelming chunk of evidence.
Do you think Bray has good body mass for a WR? I don't. Those are some awfully skinny legs on that boy.
The Quinn comparison is baseless. Quinn has had very few starts. Bray has played for 4 years.
-Al
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If Harvin starts to bust off 4.25's in his workout's as he has in the past, all of a sudden you will see GMs walking around with woodys and their tongues hanging out.
He will move up.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. -
Why all the hate on Braylon Edwards?
Who ever is casting a vote to trade Edwards is an absolute complete idiot and should turn in their browns hat and jersey, because they have no idea on football.
All the hate is due to his butterfingers.
You talk about an "off year," but Braylon has had nothing but off years except for 2007. I won't call you an idiot, but it is somewhat idiotic to base your assessment of Bray on one "on year" that he had. What about 2005? 2006? His college days? Every scouting report from here to Moscow stated that Bray had alot of "concentration issues," which I translate as "hearing footsteps." That much is clear. He definitely is very hesitant to take a hit, but what really causes me to scratch my head are those bombs with no footsteps to hear that just roll off of his fingers.
His play in college, 2005, 2006, and 2008 is quite an overwhelming chunk of evidence.
Do you think Bray has good body mass for a WR? I don't. Those are some awfully skinny legs on that boy.
The Quinn comparison is baseless. Quinn has had very few starts. Bray has played for 4 years.
-Al
All the hate is due to his butterfingers.
You talk about an "off year," but Braylon has had nothing but off years except for 2007. I won't call you an idiot, but it is somewhat idiotic to base your assessment of Bray on one "on year" that he had. What about 2005? 2006? His college days? Every scouting report from here to Moscow stated that Bray had alot of "concentration issues," which I translate as "hearing footsteps." That much is clear. He definitely is very hesitant to take a hit, but what really causes me to scratch my head are those bombs with no footsteps to hear that just roll off of his fingers.
His play in college, 2005, 2006, and 2008 is quite an overwhelming chunk of evidence.
Do you think Bray has good body mass for a WR? I don't. Those are some awfully skinny legs on that boy.
The Quinn comparison is baseless. Quinn has had very few starts. Bray has played for 4 years.
-Al
Great post.............................Braylon came out of college with the tag of a guy who showed lacks of concentration, dropped passes and had some character issues along with an attitude problem. Yes he was the #1 WR in that draft. The mistake was he wasn't the #1 player available, he was a need.
Crabtree has size, speed, is physical and has great hands. But, he is noted as a player with great character and no ego problems. Besides being the #1 WR, he is the #1 rated player in the draft.
So, what will the Browns due when Edwards walks after this season because he is unappreciated in Cleveland by the fans. Anybody actually think this guy will show any loyality to the Browns. I see Plaxico here. Edwards will always be a disruptive person because he is a "me" first guy and always will be.
Hey Mario, you think Crabtree will be as overhyped as Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson. Guys with character, great work ethic and great skills that Crabtree is being compared to. Or, is that an idiotic question? Those guys sure were busts and a waste of picks. But, that wasn't the question and I realize it flew over your head.
Do you pick Crabtree because he is the highest rated player in the draft or do you pick for need and take a "safe" player?
Personally I would not want to be a defensive coach that has to set a game plan to stop Crabtree, Edwards and Winslow. On the flip side do you think any offensive coach will lose any sleep over Curry being in the middle of our defense?
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All the hate is due to his butterfingers.
You talk about an "off year," but Braylon has had nothing but off years except for 2007. I won't call you an idiot, but it is somewhat idiotic to base your assessment of Bray on one "on year" that he had. What about 2005? 2006? His college days? Every scouting report from here to Moscow stated that Bray had alot of "concentration issues," which I translate as "hearing footsteps." That much is clear. He definitely is very hesitant to take a hit, but what really causes me to scratch my head are those bombs with no footsteps to hear that just roll off of his fingers.
His play in college, 2005, 2006, and 2008 is quite an overwhelming chunk of evidence.
Do you think Bray has good body mass for a WR? I don't. Those are some awfully skinny legs on that boy.
The Quinn comparison is baseless. Quinn has had very few starts. Bray has played for 4 years.
-Al
Great post.............................Braylon came out of college with the tag of a guy who showed lacks of concentration, dropped passes and had some character issues along with an attitude problem. Yes he was the #1 WR in that draft. The mistake was he wasn't the #1 player available, he was a need.
Crabtree has size, speed, is physical and has great hands. But, he is noted as a player with great character and no ego problems. Besides being the #1 WR, he is the #1 rated player in the draft.
So, what will the Browns due when Edwards walks after this season because he is unappreciated in Cleveland by the fans. Anybody actually think this guy will show any loyality to the Browns. I see Plaxico here. Edwards will always be a disruptive person because he is a "me" first guy and always will be.
Hey Mario, you think Crabtree will be as overhyped as Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson. Guys with character, great work ethic and great skills that Crabtree is being compared to. Or, is that an idiotic question? Those guys sure were busts and a waste of picks. But, that wasn't the question and I realize it flew over your head.
Do you pick Crabtree because he is the highest rated player in the draft or do you pick for need and take a "safe" player?
Personally I would not want to be a defensive coach that has to set a game plan to stop Crabtree, Edwards and Winslow. On the flip side do you think any offensive coach will lose any sleep over Curry being in the middle of our defense?
Great post.............................Braylon came out of college with the tag of a guy who showed lacks of concentration, dropped passes and had some character issues along with an attitude problem. Yes he was the #1 WR in that draft. The mistake was he wasn't the #1 player available, he was a need.
Crabtree has size, speed, is physical and has great hands. But, he is noted as a player with great character and no ego problems. Besides being the #1 WR, he is the #1 rated player in the draft.
So, what will the Browns due when Edwards walks after this season because he is unappreciated in Cleveland by the fans. Anybody actually think this guy will show any loyality to the Browns. I see Plaxico here. Edwards will always be a disruptive person because he is a "me" first guy and always will be.
Hey Mario, you think Crabtree will be as overhyped as Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson. Guys with character, great work ethic and great skills that Crabtree is being compared to. Or, is that an idiotic question? Those guys sure were busts and a waste of picks. But, that wasn't the question and I realize it flew over your head.
Do you pick Crabtree because he is the highest rated player in the draft or do you pick for need and take a "safe" player?
Personally I would not want to be a defensive coach that has to set a game plan to stop Crabtree, Edwards and Winslow. On the flip side do you think any offensive coach will lose any sleep over Curry being in the middle of our defense?
You make so many great points and post in this thread.
But I have a question. Couldn't you see future problems with Edwards if we draft Crabtree and he ends up getting the majority of catches and highlights on ESPN?
Edwards cried this year and blamed his drops on Anderson by saying he didn't get the ball in the first half and as a result lost concentration in the second half that lead to drops.
I could see Edwards causing all kinds of problems if Crabtree ends up on ths team.
That's the last thing a first year coach and basically a first year QB will want to deal with.
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@shepwrite said:
Johnson got more "beat pro WR prospect ever" dribble than anybody I can recall... and he led his team to an 0-16 record. Because he's a WR who can't throw himself the ball or really impact the bottom line as much as a QB, left tackle, or pass rusher.Not one team with Calvin Johnson has ever had a winning record. Ever. Not once.
I think that has more to do with the guys Matt Millen has taken with all of his other picks. I don't question his drafting CJ.
Megatron has over 2,000 receiving yards in 16 TD's through two seasons, and that's despite being hurt for most of his rookie year. And if a guy was uber-productive with Reggie frickin' Ball as his college QB, you know he's special.
Like JewDago, I need to see some more of Crabtree before giving a final judgment. But from what I've seen thus far, he's not in Calvin Johnson's league as a prospect.
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If Harvin starts to bust off 4.25's in his workout's as he has in the past, all of a sudden you will see GMs walking around with woodys and their tongues hanging out.
He will move up.
If Harvin starts to bust off 4.25's in his workout's as he has in the past, all of a sudden you will see GMs walking around with woodys and their tongues hanging out.
He will move up.
I'm using alot of hearsay from his teammates as reported in games I witnessed. It seems like a large portion of the 4.2 club at UF all seemed to share the consensus of opinion that Harvin was their fastest guy. What would that really mean if he had stonehands like Paul Hubbard? Because he doesn't, which one of their speed demons seemed to be the focal point of Urban Meyer's games plans in the BIG games? Everytime I watched - it looked like Percy Harvin. Since they usually WON these with him being their goto guy - why does Harvin take a back seat to anyone playing the WR position?
If that kid bench presses 450 pounds like the commentators were told he does - we're not looking at a frail Dennis Northcutt type. We're looking at a Terry Glenn with POWER. Hard to find a better sudden impact than Terry Glenn had coming out except maybe Torry Holt landing opposite of Ike Bruce on a 5-11 franchise turned into Superbowl Champions Holt's rookie year. That 1 extra dimension or attack prong can make all the difference in the world.
Ballpeen, believe it not, I'll weigh your input on what you think of Harvin vrs Crabtree because nobody watches the Florida Gators more closely than you. I'm impressed with BOTH kids but I gotta tell you Oklahoma had more solutions for Crabtree than they had for Harvin. And I do LIKE Crabtree alot so neither kid would suck IMO. There's just that little something extra I see in Harvin. One minute I'm looking at Florida's backs to the goal line. I Percy Harvin sprint later - Florida is on Oklahoma's side of the 50, which means he can do more than just fetch passes if you need him to.
- Tom F. (Right now I have it an even tie between Harvin and Curry as my favorite for us. It changes with the wind. It's nice to have more than 1 good choice in case someone plucks one of them out from under us)
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