Question for the Board
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@jadbf said:
That was your question orginally. and then you commented on how Koskinis is keeping the Browns scouts and complained. and that's when we jumped in......Stop me if I'm wrong here but...Savage kept alot of scouts from Butchie cause he wanted continuity right? We'll as seen from savages later round picks...hasn't worked out so great, yeah? So Butch's guys, and savage's guys and still here evaluating talent, yes?
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What matters is the guy making the final decision who reads all those reports that are 95% the same.
Exactly my point...........OPINIONS DIFFER AND SOMETIMES ARE COMPLETELY OPPOSITE WHEN EVALUATING TALENT
What matters is the guy making the final decision who reads all those reports that are 95% the same.
Exactly my point...........OPINIONS DIFFER AND SOMETIMES ARE COMPLETELY OPPOSITE WHEN EVALUATING TALENT
That certainly didn't seem like your point when you commented/complained on how Koskinis is keeping the Browns curent scouts. That's when JADBF and I jumped in about the majority of scouts (not GMs or who ever makes the final call on who to draft) are just about the same.
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seems u found the answer have a decision maker who gets it..........Bill Polian........er Paul Brown............er Bill Belichick.........and that is what it amounts to a decision maker who has brutal understanding and can say to the 95% you guys are full of it and then make a choice the 95% would not
and that is what separates the winners from the herd
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@jadbf said:
That was your question orginally. and then you commented on how Koskinis is keeping the Browns scouts and complained. and that's when we jumped in......Stop me if I'm wrong here but...Savage kept alot of scouts from Butchie cause he wanted continuity right? We'll as seen from savages later round picks...hasn't worked out so great, yeah? So Butch's guys, and savage's guys and still here evaluating talent, yes?
Stop me if I'm wrong here but...Savage kept alot of scouts from Butchie cause he wanted continuity right? We'll as seen from savages later round picks...hasn't worked out so great, yeah? So Butch's guys, and savage's guys and still here evaluating talent, yes?
Only in year 1. Savage revamped the scouting department with a ton of people from BALT. The same people that once worked with Kokonis and Savage in BALT.
We have also seen reports where who the scouts thought should be drafted and Butch chose differed. Same with Savage, the scouts, and RAC. In both cases, the problem was the guy making the final call abandonded his board and went with their gut, which turned out to be wrong. That ain't the scouts fault, that's the decision makers fault.
We have also been down this road on this board many times. You can stack Savages late round picks for the last 2-3 years against any team, and you'll find equal amounts of hit and miss. In day two, it's a crap shoot. Not to mention the majority of second day picks don't start being regular producers for 2-3 years after being drafted.
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What matters is the guy making the final decision who reads all those reports that are 95% the same.
Exactly my point...........OPINIONS DIFFER AND SOMETIMES ARE COMPLETELY OPPOSITE WHEN EVALUATING TALENT
That certainly didn't seem like your point when you commented/complained on how Koskinis is keeping the Browns curent scouts. That's when JADBF and I jumped in about the majority of scouts (not GMs or who ever makes the final call on who to draft) are just about the same.
Masters said:
That certainly didn't seem like your point when you commented/complained on how Koskinis is keeping the Browns curent scouts. That's when JADBF and I jumped in about the majority of scouts (not GMs or who ever makes the final call on who to draft) are just about the same.May cause I think our scouts have failed miserably? You make an assumption about 95% of scouts write the same things...I disagree.
What you are saying is Draft boards, made up of scouting reports, are 95% the same are you not?
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seems u found the answer have a decision maker who gets it..........Bill Polian........er Paul Brown............er Bill Belichick.........and that is what it amounts to a decision maker who has brutal understanding and can say to the 95% you guys are full of it and then make a choice the 95% would not
and that is what separates the winners from the herd
seems u found the answer have a decision maker who gets it..........Bill Polian........er Paul Brown............er Bill Belichick.........and that is what it amounts to a decision maker who has brutal understanding and can say to the 95% you guys are full of it and then make a choice the 95% would not
and that is what separates the winners from the herd
Well I'd say it's the guy who can figure out that missing 5% that is needed to make the right call. But that is splitting hairs.
At the end of the day in NE, it all comes down to BB. Both in who to draft, as well as being able to coach the players he's got.
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seems u found the answer have a decision maker who gets it..........Bill Polian........er Paul Brown............er Bill Belichick.........and that is what it amounts to a decision maker who has brutal understanding and can say to the 95% you guys are full of it and then make a choice the 95% would not
and that is what separates the winners from the herd
Well I'd say it's the guy who can figure out that missing 5% that is needed to make the right call. But that is splitting hairs.
At the end of the day in NE, it all comes down to BB. Both in who to draft, as well as being able to coach the players he's got.
Masters said:
Well I'd say it's the guy who can figure out that missing 5% that is needed to make the right call. But that is splitting hairs.At the end of the day in NE, it all comes down to BB. Both in who to draft, as well as being able to coach the players he's got.
So you are saying at the end of the day......OPINIONS DIFFER AND SOMETIMES ARE COMPLETELY OPPOSITE WHEN EVALUATING TALENT
ha ha ha ha
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Masters, Well, in essence then you agree with me......the geniuses are few and they have a bunch of assistants doing diligence for them. That is why I stay away from hiring the the assistant of brilliance
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Masters said:
That certainly didn't seem like your point when you commented/complained on how Koskinis is keeping the Browns curent scouts. That's when JADBF and I jumped in about the majority of scouts (not GMs or who ever makes the final call on who to draft) are just about the same.May cause I think our scouts have failed miserably? You make an assumption about 95% of scouts write the same things...I disagree.
What you are saying is Draft boards, made up of scouting reports, are 95% the same are you not?
May cause I think our scouts have failed miserably? You make an assumption about 95% of scouts write the same things...I disagree.
What you are saying is Draft boards, made up of scouting reports, are 95% the same are you not?
No, even scouting reports. Go to scouts inc, then Todd McShay, then Mayock, and another other scouts, or scouting services. You can read their scouting reports and 95% will say almost the exact same thing about the same player.
Draft boards by team will vary greatly, because teams have different needs, schemes, etc.
How have CLE's scouts failed miserably? Have you read their scouting reports? Did you see who they recommended? No, you didn't. You saw who Butch or Phil decided to pick. Not who was necessarily recommended as the pick. I mean shit, word was that the scouting department felt CLE should have been drafting Ngata that year, but Phil felt he knew better.
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Masters said:
Well I'd say it's the guy who can figure out that missing 5% that is needed to make the right call. But that is splitting hairs.At the end of the day in NE, it all comes down to BB. Both in who to draft, as well as being able to coach the players he's got.
So you are saying at the end of the day......OPINIONS DIFFER AND SOMETIMES ARE COMPLETELY OPPOSITE WHEN EVALUATING TALENT
ha ha ha ha
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Masters, Well, in essence then you agree with me......the geniuses are few and they have a bunch of assistants doing diligence for them. That is why I stay away from hiring the the assistant of brilliance
Masters, Well, in essence then you agree with me......the geniuses are few and they have a bunch of assistants doing diligence for them. That is why I stay away from hiring the the assistant of brilliance
We just about do on this one (I know, shocking
). Like in all areas of business, you got to have your gurnts do the diligence for you. Then at the top, you take that info and make the best decision based on what you have, plus your own savy. As for the assistant of brilliance, they all have to come from some where. BB was once that to Parcells, as one example. He certainly passed the teacher up. But if your gonna go get one of those assistant of brilliance, you better be damn sure his shine is his own, and not just a reflection from the one above them. Say in the case of Dimitroff of ATL, obviously he had his own shine and it wasn't just the reflection from BB or Pioli.
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Good post, I will keep my eye on Dimitroff......and see what happens. Bottom line is IMPACT PLAYERS MAKE THE DIFFERNCE GET THEM
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Good post, I will keep my eye on Dimitroff......and see what happens. Bottom line is IMPACT PLAYERS MAKE THE DIFFERNCE GET THEM
Good post, I will keep my eye on Dimitroff......and see what happens. Bottom line is IMPACT PLAYERS MAKE THE DIFFERNCE GET THEM
Tell me...who are the impact players in this draft?
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I will be honest with you I lost interest in sorting it out. So this year, I have no choice about impact players. My guess is Beanie Wells can be big time if he can stay healthy and Crabtree can be the real deal. Other than that I have no opinion and am not gaga over either of those two either. Sanchez is intriguing if I were the Browns I would pick him.
And who do you think the impact players are and I do understand you have studied way more than me this year
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Good post, I will keep my eye on Dimitroff......and see what happens. Bottom line is IMPACT PLAYERS MAKE THE DIFFERNCE GET THEM
Good post, I will keep my eye on Dimitroff......and see what happens. Bottom line is IMPACT PLAYERS MAKE THE DIFFERNCE GET THEM
They do. Then again, I'd say many guys wouldn't be quite the impact player under different coaches. In the end, it comes down to the combination of people who can spot them, and people who can make/get the most out of those players. As JADBF pointed out with Harrison of PIT. Dude was cut multiple times, practice squaded, etc. Yet was made into an impact player.
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Part of being impact is given talent and part is getting better as time progresses.........a lot of players get no better after say 21 and some keep getting better........and I surmise few talent scouts look at the quality of always improving year after year............
young people reach there peak when........the key is get guys who are still accelerating to the peak
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How have CLE's scouts failed miserably? Have you read their scouting reports? Did you see who they recommended? No, you didn't.
Have you seen Pitt's scouting reports? Have you seen the 31 other teams scouting reports to compare? no you haven't...so saying that 95% are the same is CONJECTURE and Opinion...last time I checked Mayock, Mcxxxxstick, and kiper were TV analyst
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Pittsburgh has been absolute superior in not overpaying and letting people go who want more than worth..................
That is also part of the Rooney philosophy stay young and do not overpay and only load the money truck for true franchise players
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Part of being impact is given talent and part is getting better as time progresses.........a lot of players get no better after say 21 and some keep getting better........and I surmise few talent scouts look at the quality of always improving year after year............
young people reach there peak when........the key is get guys who are still accelerating to the peak
Part of being impact is given talent and part is getting better as time progresses.........a lot of players get no better after say 21 and some keep getting better........and I surmise few talent scouts look at the quality of always improving year after year............
young people reach there peak when........the key is get guys who are still accelerating to the peak
Another thing we'd agree on Rich.
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How have CLE's scouts failed miserably? Have you read their scouting reports? Did you see who they recommended? No, you didn't.
Have you seen Pitt's scouting reports? Have you seen the 31 other teams scouting reports to compare? no you haven't...so saying that 95% are the same is CONJECTURE and Opinion...last time I checked Mayock, Mcxxxxstick, and kiper were TV analyst
How have CLE's scouts failed miserably? Have you read their scouting reports? Did you see who they recommended? No, you didn't.
Have you seen Pitt's scouting reports? Have you seen the 31 other teams scouting reports to compare? no you haven't...so saying that 95% are the same is CONJECTURE and Opinion...last time I checked Mayock, Mcxxxxstick, and kiper were TV analyst
Mayock actually scouts and is a former player. McShay has worked as a talent evaluator. They were two examples. I didn't even mention Kiper, who is for sure just a TV talking head. I see you decided to skip ripping scouts inc. Yet in a Rey thread, you'll jump on board with quotes from another scouting service. Hmm....
Scouts and scouting players are very different than the guy picking players. It's hardly conjecture when I can pull you scouting reports from dozens of scouting services, as well as quotes from actual NFL scouts.
Saying CLE scouting department and it's current employees, with zero to go on, other than the drafts of two INDIVIDUALS, is conjuncture.
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