The Mobile QB Beat the Pocket Passer--New Era Born
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and on and and on................................................... Truth is if any of us were half as good at identifying which QB prospect is going to be a stud in the NFL we would be making a fat paycheck working for a team in the NFL.
what's the Browns gm excuseand on and and on................................................... Truth is if any of us were half as good at identifying which QB prospect is going to be a stud in the NFL we would be making a fat paycheck working for a team in the NFL.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
The thread title should read: The team with the best DL and OL won. Everything else is secondary to that.
Pats had the best OL in football during all their title years. Same with Dallas in their day, Baltimore, TB, etc.
The only WR in Seattle who was truly a game-changer was Harvin, and he touched the ball once all season.. everyone else was league average, especially Doug Baldwin who was undrafted but led the Seahawks in receiving with 5/66/1 TD.. baldwin was also the hawks 2nd leading receiver during the year.
Hawks have a great secondary yes, but those guys were all mid-late round picks except Earl Thomas. Chancellor 5, Sherman 5, brandon browner who was suspended last night was undrafted. So in browner's place they started byron maxwell who was a 5, and signed Walter Thurmond (4th round) as a street FA in late december to replace browner.
Earl Thomas in the first round completed the D, he didn't start it. Just like Jerry Rice completed the Niners O, he didn't start it.. the year before Rice was drafted, the 49ers made the NFCtitle game with Roger Craig their leading receiver.
OL and DL (and, now, LB) is the winning formula.
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The thread title should read: The team with the best DL and OL won. Everything else is secondary to that.
Pats had the best OL in football during all their title years. Same with Dallas in their day, Baltimore, TB, etc.
The only WR in Seattle who was truly a game-changer was Harvin, and he touched the ball once all season.. everyone else was league average, especially Doug Baldwin who was undrafted but led the Seahawks in receiving with 5/66/1 TD.. baldwin was also the hawks 2nd leading receiver during the year.
Hawks have a great secondary yes, but those guys were all mid-late round picks except Earl Thomas. Chancellor 5, Sherman 5, brandon browner who was suspended last night was undrafted. So in browner's place they started byron maxwell who was a 5, and signed Walter Thurmond (4th round) as a street FA in late december to replace browner.
Earl Thomas in the first round completed the D, he didn't start it. Just like Jerry Rice completed the Niners O, he didn't start it.. the year before Rice was drafted, the 49ers made the NFCtitle game with Roger Craig their leading receiver.
OL and DL (and, now, LB) is the winning formula.
The thread title should read: The team with the best DL and OL won. Everything else is secondary to that.
Pats had the best OL in football during all their title years. Same with Dallas in their day, Baltimore, TB, etc.
The only WR in Seattle who was truly a game-changer was Harvin, and he touched the ball once all season.. everyone else was league average, especially Doug Baldwin who was undrafted but led the Seahawks in receiving with 5/66/1 TD.. baldwin was also the hawks 2nd leading receiver during the year.
Hawks have a great secondary yes, but those guys were all mid-late round picks except Earl Thomas. Chancellor 5, Sherman 5, brandon browner who was suspended last night was undrafted. So in browner's place they started byron maxwell who was a 5, and signed Walter Thurmond (4th round) as a street FA in late december to replace browner.
Earl Thomas in the first round completed the D, he didn't start it. Just like Jerry Rice completed the Niners O, he didn't start it.. the year before Rice was drafted, the 49ers made the NFCtitle game with Roger Craig their leading receiver.
OL and DL (and, now, LB) is the winning formula.
Except that's completely wrong.
Denver finished 8th overall in offensive line run block production, Seattle 9th.
Denver's offensive line finished 17th in power run ranking (Successes on 3rd/4th and short, 1st/2nd and goal to go). Seattle finished 32nd.
Denver's offensive line finished 1st (least percentage) in runs stopped behind the line of scrimmage. Seattle finished 15th.
Denver's offensive lined finished 4th in second level yards gained, Seattle finished 13th.
Denver's offensive line finished 20th in getting their running back into the open field, Seattle finished 23rd.
Denver finished 1st in pass protection, with an adjusted sack percentage of 3.7%.
Seattle finished 32nd in pass protection, with an adjusted sack percentage of 9.6%
Denver's offensive line, in every single measurable statistic of offensive lines, was markedly better than Seattle's.
Furthermore:
Denver's defensive line finished 3rd in overall rushing defense. Seattle's 13th.
Denver's defensive line finished 13th in power run ranking, Seattle finished 24th.
Denver's defensive line finished 9th in stuffed runs, Seattle finished 11th.
Denver's defensive line finished 9th in second level runs allowed, Seattle finished 11th.
The only thing Seattle's defensive line beat Denver's defensive line in is sacks, getting 3 more sacks on the year.
Seattle just played better football, that's how you win the game. Denver was better on paper, but Seattle was better on the field.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
No, in the matchup, Denver's offensive line was overrun, intimidated and completely
out of sync. They are used to "omaha" etc. My guess is, they changed things up to fool
Seattle, but only screwed themselves up.
And Seattle's offensive line could blow the Denver defense off the los. The right of their oline
is two first rounds and a second. Or was that two seconds and a first....
Seattle won with a 3rd round qb. They have a winning formula for drafting a bunch
of players who in important ways, are a lot alike on the field, to really become a TEAM.
Peyton Manning in his prime wouldn't have helped the Broncos win last night. It isn't so much
where you draft, as much as who you draft. And Russel Wilson would never have gotten to the superbowl
with the Browns, or several other teams. It's a team game, and the Seahawks have terrific talent
at every position to make the superbowl possible.
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Wait... did someone call Russell Wilson "not so mobile?" Yikes. Get a TV. Or ESPN.com so you know he ran for 569 yards this season.
Did we see what happened to ACTUALLY not-so-mobile Peyton Manning if he tried to throw over 4 yards? He got hit or pushed off his spot, which he hates.
This thread title is correct: It's a pass the ball, rush the passer league. Seattle forced Manning out of his comfort zone like the Giants treated Tom Brady... and the Patriots early treated Peyton Manning. You can't do that to Wilson because he'll roll out, extend the play, and complete the pass.
Like Manziel, against top competition. Or Kaepernick, the NFC runner-up who ran for 524 yards.
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No, in the matchup, Denver's offensive line was overrun, intimidated and completely
out of sync. They are used to "omaha" etc. My guess is, they changed things up to fool
Seattle, but only screwed themselves up.
And Seattle's offensive line could blow the Denver defense off the los. The right of their oline
is two first rounds and a second. Or was that two seconds and a first....
Seattle won with a 3rd round qb. They have a winning formula for drafting a bunch
of players who in important ways, are a lot alike on the field, to really become a TEAM.
Peyton Manning in his prime wouldn't have helped the Broncos win last night. It isn't so much
where you draft, as much as who you draft. And Russel Wilson would never have gotten to the superbowl
with the Browns, or several other teams. It's a team game, and the Seahawks have terrific talent
at every position to make the superbowl possible.
No, in the matchup, Denver's offensive line was overrun, intimidated and completely
out of sync. They are used to "omaha" etc. My guess is, they changed things up to fool
Seattle, but only screwed themselves up.
And Seattle's offensive line could blow the Denver defense off the los. The right of their oline
is two first rounds and a second. Or was that two seconds and a first....
Seattle won with a 3rd round qb. They have a winning formula for drafting a bunch
of players who in important ways, are a lot alike on the field, to really become a TEAM.
Peyton Manning in his prime wouldn't have helped the Broncos win last night. It isn't so much
where you draft, as much as who you draft. And Russel Wilson would never have gotten to the superbowl
with the Browns, or several other teams. It's a team game, and the Seahawks have terrific talent
at every position to make the superbowl possible.
I don't disagree. The Broncos played bad. That's why I said what I said, the Seahawks played better football. But one game isn't indicative of the talent level of the entire team. The Broncos lines performed much better all season long, with both their starting LT and C on IR, therefore the argument that you invest heavily in the lines isn't valid in this case.
I played line, I understand how important the position is. I'm not undervaluing the line by any means. But consistency is much more important than investing five first rounders.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Wait... did someone call Russell Wilson "not so mobile?" Yikes. Get a TV. Or ESPN.com so you know he ran for 569 yards this season.
Did we see what happened to ACTUALLY not-so-mobile Peyton Manning if he tried to throw over 4 yards? He got hit or pushed off his spot, which he hates.
This thread title is correct: It's a pass the ball, rush the passer league. Seattle forced Manning out of his comfort zone like the Giants treated Tom Brady... and the Patriots early treated Peyton Manning. You can't do that to Wilson because he'll roll out, extend the play, and complete the pass.
Like Manziel, against top competition. Or Kaepernick, the NFC runner-up who ran for 524 yards.
Wait... did someone call Russell Wilson "not so mobile?" Yikes. Get a TV. Or ESPN.com so you know he ran for 569 yards this season.
Did we see what happened to ACTUALLY not-so-mobile Peyton Manning if he tried to throw over 4 yards? He got hit or pushed off his spot, which he hates.
This thread title is correct: It's a pass the ball, rush the passer league. Seattle forced Manning out of his comfort zone like the Giants treated Tom Brady... and the Patriots early treated Peyton Manning. You can't do that to Wilson because he'll roll out, extend the play, and complete the pass.
Like Manziel, against top competition. Or Kaepernick, the NFC runner-up who ran for 524 yards.
'not so mobile' in the fact that they don't run a run-option scheme, he is mobile enough to get out of jams and can get to the first line marker.
he is not colin kaepernick who scrambles for 40 yards.
that's the difference you QB loving so and so.
i'd love to see manziel do that in the NFL.
pleez god now draft him so we can all (all of that disagree with a manziel pick) can blast you for 5 years on how you are an epic failure in your QB draft analysis.
wasn't it quinn who you pined for? or was it anderson? maybe charlie frye? you've been aces on all your picks.
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No, in the matchup, Denver's offensive line was overrun, intimidated and completely
out of sync. They are used to "omaha" etc. My guess is, they changed things up to fool
Seattle, but only screwed themselves up.
And Seattle's offensive line could blow the Denver defense off the los. The right of their oline
is two first rounds and a second. Or was that two seconds and a first....
Seattle won with a 3rd round qb. They have a winning formula for drafting a bunch
of players who in important ways, are a lot alike on the field, to really become a TEAM.
Peyton Manning in his prime wouldn't have helped the Broncos win last night. It isn't so much
where you draft, as much as who you draft. And Russel Wilson would never have gotten to the superbowl
with the Browns, or several other teams. It's a team game, and the Seahawks have terrific talent
at every position to make the superbowl possible.
I don't disagree. The Broncos played bad. That's why I said what I said, the Seahawks played better football. But one game isn't indicative of the talent level of the entire team. The Broncos lines performed much better all season long, with both their starting LT and C on IR, therefore the argument that you invest heavily in the lines isn't valid in this case.
I played line, I understand how important the position is. I'm not undervaluing the line by any means. But consistency is much more important than investing five first rounders.
But consistency is much more important than investing five first rounders.
nobody on here i think is advocating picking an OL in the first round (although it wouldn't bother me). at least admit and address that our right side of the line is horrific and has been for years now.
and i don't care about stats. the right side of the OL has sucked and anyone who watches the browns knows that.
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Wait... did someone call Russell Wilson "not so mobile?" Yikes. Get a TV. Or ESPN.com so you know he ran for 569 yards this season.
Did we see what happened to ACTUALLY not-so-mobile Peyton Manning if he tried to throw over 4 yards? He got hit or pushed off his spot, which he hates.
This thread title is correct: It's a pass the ball, rush the passer league. Seattle forced Manning out of his comfort zone like the Giants treated Tom Brady... and the Patriots early treated Peyton Manning. You can't do that to Wilson because he'll roll out, extend the play, and complete the pass.
Like Manziel, against top competition. Or Kaepernick, the NFC runner-up who ran for 524 yards.
'not so mobile' in the fact that they don't run a run-option scheme, he is mobile enough to get out of jams and can get to the first line marker.
he is not colin kaepernick who scrambles for 40 yards.
that's the difference you QB loving so and so.
i'd love to see manziel do that in the NFL.
pleez god now draft him so we can all (all of that disagree with a manziel pick) can blast you for 5 years on how you are an epic failure in your QB draft analysis.
wasn't it quinn who you pined for? or was it anderson? maybe charlie frye? you've been aces on all your picks.
'not so mobile' in the fact that they don't run a run-option scheme, he is mobile enough to get out of jams and can get to the first line marker.
he is not colin kaepernick who scrambles for 40 yards.
that's the difference you QB loving so and so.
i'd love to see manziel do that in the NFL.
pleez god now draft him so we can all (all of that disagree with a manziel pick) can blast you for 5 years on how you are an epic failure in your QB draft analysis.
wasn't it quinn who you pined for? or was it anderson? maybe charlie frye? you've been aces on all your picks.
So has the Browns scouting department.
Colin Kaepernick runs a 4.53.
Russell Wilson runs a 4.55.
Wilson possesses the same speed as Kaep, he just plays in a different offense.
Manziel is rumored to run around a 4.53. Why couldn't he do the same?
People like to forget that Manziel was scouted, and offered a scholarship, by Chip Kelly. He was a verbal commit to Oregon, backed out and chose A&M instead.
Why exactly can't Manziel run in the NFL?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
I'm kinda liking manziel a little bit more. With the right coaching and system he could be good. But then again so could anybody else.
Some of these posts like manziel is better than Wilson, and mobile QBs are better are a bit ludicrous tho.
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'not so mobile' in the fact that they don't run a run-option scheme, he is mobile enough to get out of jams and can get to the first line marker.
he is not colin kaepernick who scrambles for 40 yards.
that's the difference you QB loving so and so.
i'd love to see manziel do that in the NFL.
pleez god now draft him so we can all (all of that disagree with a manziel pick) can blast you for 5 years on how you are an epic failure in your QB draft analysis.
wasn't it quinn who you pined for? or was it anderson? maybe charlie frye? you've been aces on all your picks.
So has the Browns scouting department.
Colin Kaepernick runs a 4.53.
Russell Wilson runs a 4.55.
Wilson possesses the same speed as Kaep, he just plays in a different offense.
Manziel is rumored to run around a 4.53. Why couldn't he do the same?
People like to forget that Manziel was scouted, and offered a scholarship, by Chip Kelly. He was a verbal commit to Oregon, backed out and chose A&M instead.
Why exactly can't Manziel run in the NFL?
So has the Browns scouting department.
Colin Kaepernick runs a 4.53.
Russell Wilson runs a 4.55.
Wilson possesses the same speed as Kaep, he just plays in a different offense.
Manziel is rumored to run around a 4.53. Why couldn't he do the same?
People like to forget that Manziel was scouted, and offered a scholarship, by Chip Kelly. He was a verbal commit to Oregon, backed out and chose A&M instead.
Why exactly can't Manziel run in the NFL?
Because his running style is not Wilson's. Kapernick has at least 3 inches and 20 pounds on Johnny Football. Try telling me that doesn't matter.
You take one of those extreme pirouettes or cuts Manziel routinely does at the wrong time, namely a TJ Ward style shot to the leg, and it's bye-bye ACL or more.
BTW, if Manziel can clock a sub-4.4 at the combine, I may slightly change my mind.
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So has the Browns scouting department.
Colin Kaepernick runs a 4.53.
Russell Wilson runs a 4.55.
Wilson possesses the same speed as Kaep, he just plays in a different offense.
Manziel is rumored to run around a 4.53. Why couldn't he do the same?
People like to forget that Manziel was scouted, and offered a scholarship, by Chip Kelly. He was a verbal commit to Oregon, backed out and chose A&M instead.
Why exactly can't Manziel run in the NFL?
Because his running style is not Wilson's. Kapernick has at least 3 inches and 20 pounds on Johnny Football. Try telling me that doesn't matter.
You take one of those extreme pirouettes or cuts Manziel routinely does at the wrong time, namely a TJ Ward style shot to the leg, and it's bye-bye ACL or more.
BTW, if Manziel can clock a sub-4.4 at the combine, I may slightly change my mind.
Because his running style is not Wilson's. Kapernick has at least 3 inches and 20 pounds on Johnny Football. Try telling me that doesn't matter.
You take one of those extreme pirouettes or cuts Manziel routinely does at the wrong time, namely a TJ Ward style shot to the leg, and it's bye-bye ACL or more.
BTW, if Manziel can clock a sub-4.4 at the combine, I may slightly change my mind.
I'd love some video breakdown of the differences in their "running styles".
I hear about this a good amount from people here, yet rarely anywhere else.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Because his running style is not Wilson's. Kapernick has at least 3 inches and 20 pounds on Johnny Football. Try telling me that doesn't matter.
You take one of those extreme pirouettes or cuts Manziel routinely does at the wrong time, namely a TJ Ward style shot to the leg, and it's bye-bye ACL or more.
BTW, if Manziel can clock a sub-4.4 at the combine, I may slightly change my mind.
I'd love some video breakdown of the differences in their "running styles".
I hear about this a good amount from people here, yet rarely anywhere else.
I'd love some video breakdown of the differences in their "running styles".
I hear about this a good amount from people here, yet rarely anywhere else.
Good Lord, just pull up a YouTube of Manzel- and tell me with a straight face you don't see extreme cutting, Hell, watching his footwork on the first video I pulled up, I'm surprised he hasn't blown out a knee yet with no hit. We're talking Erick Metcalf level dancing.
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Because his running style is not Wilson's. Kapernick has at least 3 inches and 20 pounds on Johnny Football. Try telling me that doesn't matter.
You take one of those extreme pirouettes or cuts Manziel routinely does at the wrong time, namely a TJ Ward style shot to the leg, and it's bye-bye ACL or more.
BTW, if Manziel can clock a sub-4.4 at the combine, I may slightly change my mind.
I'd love some video breakdown of the differences in their "running styles".
I hear about this a good amount from people here, yet rarely anywhere else.
I'd love some video breakdown of the differences in their "running styles".
I hear about this a good amount from people here, yet rarely anywhere else.
Manziels definitely a little more wreckless running the ball. At least as far as tucking it and sliding. The good news is those issues are pretty fixable. so I don't judge him on that alone.
There's other more pertinent potential issues to discuss with manziel IMO. Like, partying problems and can he effectively throw without escaping the pocket. You won't get those 10 second crazy plays in the big leagues. You have to get rid of it correctly fast. Extending the play is good if nothing's open. But I've seen manziel tape of him passing on open targets and extending a play forever until his primary read reroutes for the 3rd time to get open.
Maybe a limited sample, but those plays don't happen in the NFL often.
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But consistency is much more important than investing five first rounders.
nobody on here i think is advocating picking an OL in the first round (although it wouldn't bother me). at least admit and address that our right side of the line is horrific and has been for years now.
and i don't care about stats. the right side of the OL has sucked and anyone who watches the browns knows that.
nobody on here i think is advocating picking an OL in the first round (although it wouldn't bother me). at least admit and address that our right side of the line is horrific and has been for years now.
and i don't care about stats. the right side of the OL has sucked and anyone who watches the browns knows that.
I might advocate taking an OL in the first round....if like David Yankey were there for our #26 pick....and there truly seemed to be no better option.
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Manziels definitely a little more wreckless running the ball. At least as far as tucking it and sliding. The good news is those issues are pretty fixable. so I don't judge him on that alone.
There's other more pertinent potential issues to discuss with manziel IMO. Like, partying problems and can he effectively throw without escaping the pocket. You won't get those 10 second crazy plays in the big leagues. You have to get rid of it correctly fast. Extending the play is good if nothing's open. But I've seen manziel tape of him passing on open targets and extending a play forever until his primary read reroutes for the 3rd time to get open. Maybe a limited sample, but those plays don't happen in the NFL often.
****************************Exactly - the NFL is a man's game, and a lot of work ethic is required.
Manziel could turn out to be locked in to what he is in college - a spectacular
improviser.
But like a lot of NFL players have said "in the NFL, every player was great in college"
What if, in interviews, he comes across like a lazy off the field hotshot who isn't coachable?
Still think he's the guy at 4 because he was great in college?
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I'd love some video breakdown of the differences in their "running styles".
I hear about this a good amount from people here, yet rarely anywhere else.
Good Lord, just pull up a YouTube of Manzel- and tell me with a straight face you don't see extreme cutting, Hell, watching his footwork on the first video I pulled up, I'm surprised he hasn't blown out a knee yet with no hit. We're talking Erick Metcalf level dancing.
Good Lord, just pull up a YouTube of Manzel- and tell me with a straight face you don't see extreme cutting, Hell, watching his footwork on the first video I pulled up, I'm surprised he hasn't blown out a knee yet with no hit. We're talking Erick Metcalf level dancing.
Extreme cutting?
Okay.
"Hey, Haslam. This is your scouting department. We're not comfortable taking Manziel. Yeah, the guy just cuts way too hard. I'm talking extreme cutting. We'd feel more comfortable with a guy who just runs into contact or, better yet, just falls and turtles whenever a defender gets within five yards. Better to save those knees than get yards."
That is literally the dumbest thing I've heard on here in a long time.
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Not really. In the NFL, he won't get away with that kind of cutting - the talent level
is far higher across the board for him to get away with it like he did in college.
It's a concern.
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