I would eat an Entire bag of dicks if it got you to like me
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Ravens5220 said:
At least you stuck to a fact and didn't call him a murderer. Also, pretty sure Modell isn't rotting in Hell...I can already see that the Modell topic will be too sensitive for you guys to handle.
Isn't that old news by now?
What do you think about Robert Irsay? Just interested.
What do you think about Robert Irsay? Just interested.
Perhaps I should read all the rest of the posts before posting! Ho Hum!
Anyways you are a troll if you think what Irsay did was worse than Modell. Get back under your bridge.
Woof Woof! -
I'm sure it's just that he's too young to know truly know what it feels like to have your team stolen. At least he's not a hypocrite like most Ravens fans who hate the Indianpolis Colts and think that should be their team (it should) but have no problem supporting another stolen team.
No one stole anything...Baltimore didn't try and lure CLE here behind their backs. Modell approach Baltimore and Baltimore lent their hand to a failing owner who needed cash.
Ravens5220 said:
No one stole anything...Baltimore didn't try and lure CLE here behind their backs. Modell approach Baltimore and Baltimore lent their hand to a failing owner who needed cash.
In that you're correct. However, Model did make that move behind Cleveland's back. Artie never asked for a new stadium, and there was a vote scheduled for a stadium renovation on the ballot. Never ever said, do this or I'm gone. The reaction would have been a lot more tempered if he had. Modell had the original sweetheart deal in Cleveland- he got stadium rent for a dollar a year, got to keep all the concession money, (even from when the Indians played in Municipal) and the NFLs first "luxury boxes" though by today's standards, they were pretty primitive. So why was Modell a failing owner? Artie bought the Browns for a paltry $4 million- (hard to believe considering the going price for an NFL franchise is 250X that now) and borrowed almost all the rest. IIRC his original stake was something like $250k. So instead of paying off those loans, Modell just leveraged the vastly increased worth of the franchise into ever bigger and bigger loans- and eventually it caught up with him. Even with the $75 million dollar bribe from Baltimore & the State of Maryland- and yes son- it was exactly that- and all the perks Artie didn't have enough cash flow to even pay the interest on the loans. Bye Artie, hello Biscotti. IMO Divine justice- Artie moved the Browns to pass the team on to his cigar chomping kid, that didn't happen, and in the process he lost any respect he had on the National level- you folks in Baltimore may look on him as a hero for bringing football back to your city, but outside your local area- he's looked on as a carpetbagger- or worse.
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Ravens5220 said:
No one stole anything...Baltimore didn't try and lure CLE here behind their backs. Modell approach Baltimore and Baltimore lent their hand to a failing owner who needed cash.
In that you're correct. However, Model did make that move behind Cleveland's back. Artie never asked for a new stadium, and there was a vote scheduled for a stadium renovation on the ballot. Never ever said, do this or I'm gone. The reaction would have been a lot more tempered if he had. Modell had the original sweetheart deal in Cleveland- he got stadium rent for a dollar a year, got to keep all the concession money, (even from when the Indians played in Municipal) and the NFLs first "luxury boxes" though by today's standards, they were pretty primitive. So why was Modell a failing owner? Artie bought the Browns for a paltry $4 million- (hard to believe considering the going price for an NFL franchise is 250X that now) and borrowed almost all the rest. IIRC his original stake was something like $250k. So instead of paying off those loans, Modell just leveraged the vastly increased worth of the franchise into ever bigger and bigger loans- and eventually it caught up with him. Even with the $75 million dollar bribe from Baltimore & the State of Maryland- and yes son- it was exactly that- and all the perks Artie didn't have enough cash flow to even pay the interest on the loans. Bye Artie, hello Biscotti. IMO Divine justice- Artie moved the Browns to pass the team on to his cigar chomping kid, that didn't happen, and in the process he lost any respect he had on the National level- you folks in Baltimore may look on him as a hero for bringing football back to your city, but outside your local area- he's looked on as a carpetbagger- or worse.
In that you're correct. However, Model did make that move behind Cleveland's back. Artie never asked for a new stadium, and there was a vote scheduled for a stadium renovation on the ballot. Never ever said, do this or I'm gone. The reaction would have been a lot more tempered if he had. Modell had the original sweetheart deal in Cleveland- he got stadium rent for a dollar a year, got to keep all the concession money, (even from when the Indians played in Municipal) and the NFLs first "luxury boxes" though by today's standards, they were pretty primitive. So why was Modell a failing owner? Artie bought the Browns for a paltry $4 million- (hard to believe considering the going price for an NFL franchise is 250X that now) and borrowed almost all the rest. IIRC his original stake was something like $250k. So instead of paying off those loans, Modell just leveraged the vastly increased worth of the franchise into ever bigger and bigger loans- and eventually it caught up with him. Even with the $75 million dollar bribe from Baltimore & the State of Maryland- and yes son- it was exactly that- and all the perks Artie didn't have enough cash flow to even pay the interest on the loans. Bye Artie, hello Biscotti. IMO Divine justice- Artie moved the Browns to pass the team on to his cigar chomping kid, that didn't happen, and in the process he lost any respect he had on the National level- you folks in Baltimore may look on him as a hero for bringing football back to your city, but outside your local area- he's looked on as a carpetbagger- or worse.
And Modell wasn't the only one.
Obviously you have Mr. Irsay....who everyone knew was a dumbass because he traded straight up the Rams for the Colts. Nothing against Baltimore in this regard but he traded a commodity in LA, the #2 sized market in the USA for a team in Baltimore.....which had an even more populart franchise just 35 miles away (Redskins). Also, note, when this "trade" was made the Rams were the only game in town in LA.
Speaking of LA, there is Georgia Frontiere. Apparently this showgirl didn't have what it took to make enough money on an NFL team in the #2 US market? What an idiot.
And there is Bud Adams. He couldn't make things go in like the #5 US market (Houston) in football crazy Texas?
And then is Bill Bidwill. He moved his team from St. Louis to Phoenix. At least Phoenix was a much larger market.
Then there was Al Davis. He thought he owned all of California. His antics were all about money. He thought he owned the rights to the LA area even after he moved the Raiders back to Oakland.
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FYI, here are those teams that have moved at some point in time. By move I don't mean a move from say NY to NJ or from San Fran to Santa Clara or from LA to Anaheim. I mean a move outside the NFL 75 mile market zone:
Oakland/LA Raiders
San Diego/LA Chargers
Arizona/St. Louis/Chicago Cardinals
Kansas City/Dallas Chiefs/Texans
St. Louis/LA/Cleveland Rams
Chicago/Decatur Bears/Staleys
Indianapolis/Baltimore Colts
Detroit/Portsmouth Lions/Spartans
Tennessee/Houston Titans/Oilers
Washington/Boston Redskins/Braves
I don't include say the New England Patriots...they are still in the Boston Market.
And, no, FYI, the Cleveland Browns are not listed because the franchise NEVER moved.
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The above reflects that 10 out of the current 32 teams moved at some point...or 31.25% of all teams.
I think MLB may even be worse. Here are the teams there that have moved (again, move means completely out of market):
Atlanta/Milwaukee/Boston Braves
Baltimore/St. Louis Orioles/Browns
LA/Brooklyn Dodgers
Milwaukee/Seattle Brewers/Pilots
Minnesota/Washington Twins/Senators
New York/Baltimore Yankees/Orioles
Oakland/KC/Phil. As
San Fran/NY Giants
Texas/Washington Rangers/Senators
Washinton/Montreal Nationals/Expos
That is 10 of the 30 teams or 33%.
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That's turning out to be our curse more than anything. Hindsight is 20/20 on that bullshit. Being part of bringin the history back for the fans was the idea but it really benefited the league more than anything. The NFL Shoulda lost the Browns. Would been a blackeye for them.
Just like the league said it was a black eye when they lost the Colts...but it took 12 years to get a team back in Baltimore...psh think before you write.
Also, your curse has nothing to do with Baltimore....forget about Modell...were talking Baltimore. Theres no guarantees that you would have won jack had Modell stayed in Cleveland.
Just like that idiot Tony Grossi who stands up each year trying to keep Modell out of the Hall of Fame....loser.
Art will never get into the Hall of Fame. And it has nothing to do with Tony Grossi. Think before u write douchbag.Ravens5220 said:
Just like the league said it was a black eye when they lost the Colts...but it took 12 years to get a team back in Baltimore...psh think before you write.
Also, your curse has nothing to do with Baltimore....forget about Modell...were talking Baltimore. Theres no guarantees that you would have won jack had Modell stayed in Cleveland.
Just like that idiot Tony Grossi who stands up each year trying to keep Modell out of the Hall of Fame....loser.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
The above reflects that 10 out of the current 32 teams moved at some point...or 31.25% of all teams.
I think MLB may even be worse. Here are the teams there that have moved (again, move means completely out of market):
Atlanta/Milwaukee/Boston Braves
Baltimore/St. Louis Orioles/Browns
LA/Brooklyn Dodgers
Milwaukee/Seattle Brewers/Pilots
Minnesota/Washington Twins/Senators
New York/Baltimore Yankees/Orioles
Oakland/KC/Phil. As
San Fran/NY Giants
Texas/Washington Rangers/Senators
Washinton/Montreal Nationals/Expos
That is 10 of the 30 teams or 33%.
looks like Baltimore is just a Bitch MarketThe above reflects that 10 out of the current 32 teams moved at some point...or 31.25% of all teams.
I think MLB may even be worse. Here are the teams there that have moved (again, move means completely out of market):
Atlanta/Milwaukee/Boston Braves
Baltimore/St. Louis Orioles/Browns
LA/Brooklyn Dodgers
Milwaukee/Seattle Brewers/Pilots
Minnesota/Washington Twins/Senators
New York/Baltimore Yankees/Orioles
Oakland/KC/Phil. As
San Fran/NY Giants
Texas/Washington Rangers/Senators
Washinton/Montreal Nationals/Expos
That is 10 of the 30 teams or 33%.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
Well having lived in that area I can tell you that Baltimore is a crime infested garbage crack city. The Wire was to kind to it.
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Here is another stat: There are 48 "Major League Cities" in the US and Canada, i.e. cities with a team on one of the 4 major sports.
Only the following cities have it where the team or teams that are there originated there. In other words, none of that cities teams are a relocated franchise:
Seattle
Portland
Green Bay
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Columbus
Orlando
Jacksonville
Tampa/St. Pete
Miami
Charlotte
Pittsburgh
Buffalo
Boston
Edmonton
Montreal
Vancouver
Ottawa
That is only 37.5 of the major league cities that have only original franchises.
Note: this does not mean that teams did not leave these cities (like the Expos leaving Montreal or the Clippers leaving Buffalo etc.
Those cities in italics are what I call "one horse towns" as they only have a single major league team there.
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Art Modell should (and hopefully is) rotting in hell. Ozzie isn't a traitor. I wish he was working in the Browns front office but I understand he had to go where the job was at the time.
I just can't understand all the hate for Art Modell...ok yes he moved the team, but remember Baltimore knows what that's like as well (and even worse) sorry it was worse...I know you will disagree, but it was.
Bottom line....is Cleveland was left its history, colors, heritage and promise to have team returned witin 3 years (and it was)....also, here in Baltimore we got over the whole Colts thing long ago. Plus i'm 25, so I was born without a football team in town.
Ravens5220 said:
I just can't understand all the hate for Art Modell...ok yes he moved the team, but remember Baltimore knows what that's like as well (and even worse) sorry it was worse...I know you will disagree, but it was.
Bottom line....is Cleveland was left its history, colors, heritage and promise to have team returned witin 3 years (and it was)....also, here in Baltimore we got over the whole Colts thing long ago. Plus i'm 25, so I was born without a football team in town.
Some people believe that asking for renovations on a stadium that came over on the mayflower is unreasonable, and that football isn't a business. Cleveland could have easily retained the browns had they been willing to spend a fraction of what they spent on the new browns stadium (after the team had left) talk about closing the barn door after the horse ran away. Thanks to Mike Whites selective frugality cleveland has been afforded the pleasure of watching 'cleveland browns lite' for the past 15 years. Mike white wasn't fuckin his wife right and she found someone who would. Of course loyalty means far less in the business world than it does in marriage.
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looks like Baltimore is just a Bitch MarketThe above reflects that 10 out of the current 32 teams moved at some point...or 31.25% of all teams.
I think MLB may even be worse. Here are the teams there that have moved (again, move means completely out of market):
Atlanta/Milwaukee/Boston Braves
Baltimore/St. Louis Orioles/Browns
LA/Brooklyn Dodgers
Milwaukee/Seattle Brewers/Pilots
Minnesota/Washington Twins/Senators
New York/Baltimore Yankees/Orioles
Oakland/KC/Phil. As
San Fran/NY Giants
Texas/Washington Rangers/Senators
Washinton/Montreal Nationals/Expos
That is 10 of the 30 teams or 33%.
looks like Baltimore is just a Bitch Market
Well, if you were to buy the proposition that the Browns moved to Baltimore (I don't because it is not a fact), then you realize that both teams that city has there now were "The Browns" in their previous incarnations.
The St. Louis Browns did move to Baltimore to become the Orioles.
Remnants of the Cleveland Brown franchise went to Baltimore to become the Ravens franchise.
So maybe Baltimore should just be known as Brown Sugar, as they whore themselves out like a black prostitute.
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Ravens5220 said:
I just can't understand all the hate for Art Modell...ok yes he moved the team, but remember Baltimore knows what that's like as well (and even worse) sorry it was worse...I know you will disagree, but it was.
Bottom line....is Cleveland was left its history, colors, heritage and promise to have team returned witin 3 years (and it was)....also, here in Baltimore we got over the whole Colts thing long ago. Plus i'm 25, so I was born without a football team in town.
Some people believe that asking for renovations on a stadium that came over on the mayflower is unreasonable, and that football isn't a business. Cleveland could have easily retained the browns had they been willing to spend a fraction of what they spent on the new browns stadium (after the team had left) talk about closing the barn door after the horse ran away. Thanks to Mike Whites selective frugality cleveland has been afforded the pleasure of watching 'cleveland browns lite' for the past 15 years. Mike white wasn't fuckin his wife right and she found someone who would. Of course loyalty means far less in the business world than it does in marriage.
Some people believe that asking for renovations on a stadium that came over on the mayflower is unreasonable, and that football isn't a business. Cleveland could have easily retained the browns had they been willing to spend a fraction of what they spent on the new browns stadium (after the team had left) talk about closing the barn door after the horse ran away. Thanks to Mike Whites selective frugality cleveland has been afforded the pleasure of watching 'cleveland browns lite' for the past 15 years. Mike white wasn't fuckin his wife right and she found someone who would. Of course loyalty means far less in the business world than it does in marriage.
Uh, duh, the vote to do the renovations passed. The money was there. The money that built the new stadium came from that vote.
Are you truly unaware of this?
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Ravens5220 said:
Ravens5220 said:
First off, Daisys and Puppies? LOL that was funny, but no I didn't expect that. On the other hand, I didn't expect stupidity.
If you didn't expect stupidity then why are you practicing it?
Ray didn't murder anyone, he was guilty of obstruction of justice (plus this is like 17 years old) hands washed and time to move on honestly regardless of what team you like.
Adolph Hitler didn't kill anyone either, he just directed things. Possibly the same as RayRay. I understand what he was convicted of....and OJ Simpson is completely innocent as well. Being "not guilty" is not the same as being innocent. I am an attorney/magistrate. You want to get into the niceties of the law, we can. You just have to pay the retainer to be educated.
Has this become a hatred against Jews now? Using them twice in examples now?
You really are ignorant, aren't you. I bring up the "Jewish" thing because Jews do not believe in the existance of a Hell......and with all this "rotting in hell" business I was merely pointing out a fact of theology.
So, we have established you know little about sports, and you know little about religion. You wanna go for the Trifecta and talk politics? (If so, go the the Political Forum)
First off to call Ray Lewis a MURDERER is wrong...he was never convicted of that. Its your opinion, but its false. I respect your Law knowledge, but I also think that guilty people eventually get their due...like OJ and like George Zimmerman looks like hes going to get soon. As for Ray, if he was in fact guilty he will eventually pay, but my gut says he was just caught up with the wrong people at the wrong time.
Those "people" were his bodyguards, his home boys whom he had hired to provide for his security.
And NO, an Opinion cannot be false, that is why it is an opinion. My opinion is that he may have gotten away with murder....just like, apparently, you believe OJ and Zimmerman did.
Glad we agree on Ozzie and Ravens super bowls because many Browns fans don't agree with that.
As for Modell, he shouldn't rot in hell for many many reasons....we could talk about that for hours.
Art Modell is a turncoat and a whore. He tried to take the team away from here purely out of his own greed for money.
And he got that money....the 75 million Baltimore gave him......but even that could not make up for the fact that he was incompetent and inept to the point that the banks that lent him money were threatening foreclosure of the Ravens franchise.
At that point the NFL stepped in saying they have had enough of his ineptitude and ordered the sale of the franchise to avoid the calamity of the foreclosure.
The good thing for you is that you found a good owner for your team. So be happy about it.
First of all, any smart business man would move his business if he wasn't going to get what was needed to sustain it.
The point is: he WAS getting it. The tax measure passed....but he still wouldn't accept things. DUH. Like I said, you are apparently IGNORANT of these facts.
I run a business and if my funders were no longer willing to support I wouldn't just let me business rot. Also, I get your upset with his move, but you have to understand Modell even after leaving spoke glowingly of CLE and he left what was important....colors, history, jerseys, heritage, records.
Well, apparently just being ignorant of facts isn't good enough for you for you appear to be a complete fucking dumbass? You not bother to read what you respond to. Modell didn't leave a GODDAMN thing.
When are you going to get that through your thick stupid head. This if the 4th time I have told you.
I mean, are you a Downs Syndrome person or what? I have told you over and over and over.
He left that with CLE so that the new franchise that would soon take over could live on the history of CLE football, so don't be sorry about that....All Baltimore Colts fans don't have that luxury my friend.
Also, you may have to elaborate on the Baltimore sucking more than Cleveland bit...because in terms of football I think only morons would agree with your suggestion....
Really? The last time I noticed the Pro Football Hall of Fame is located outside of Cleveland, not Baltimore. The Cleveland area has won more football championships than any other city/region (tied with Green Bay).
LOL always living the past I see..
Everything other than the Seahawks title is the past. Ony the current Champion and the next championship are relevent. The 2012 Ravens title is no more significant to what is going on now than the Akron Pros 1920 title. It is all history.
.pretty sure you've never won a Super Bowl and almost positive the Baltimore Colts/Baltimore Ravens have been much more successful than the CLE football franchise, but okay.
Then you would be wrong. I gave you the facts above. The Browns themselves have won 8 championships. And there were others before them. Can you not read? Can you not count?
Baltimore would need 8 more titles to catch up even with Cleveland.
Hows your baseball team doing? LOL Cleveland baseball really has a rich tradition...psh not so much.
The Indians made the playoffs this year. The Orioles didn't.
Cleveland and Baltimore's baseball histories are very similar: The Orioles are 3-3 in World Series, the Indians are 2-3....but of course the Indians have made 2 WS appearances since the last time Baltimore was in one.
We are a smaller city, so we don't have a basketball team anymore plus we aren't a college football city...which makes our city unique, but when the Bullets were around they were darn more successful than the Cavaliers (lord) lol.
First off, you again show igorance. Baltimore is quite a bit larger than Cleveland. 621K vs. 385K. And the Metropolitan statistical area of Wash/Baltimore is like 9.5 million vs. 3.4 million for Cleveland.
As for the Bullets.....well, they are like the Colts, you don't have them anymore. And the fact is, that team was only in Baltimore for 10 years. 1963-64 to 1973-74. And they were not more successful than the Cavs. They like the Cavs never won a title and appeared in a single finals.
Ravens5220 said:
Ravens5220 said:
First off, Daisys and Puppies? LOL that was funny, but no I didn't expect that. On the other hand, I didn't expect stupidity.
If you didn't expect stupidity then why are you practicing it?
Ray didn't murder anyone, he was guilty of obstruction of justice (plus this is like 17 years old) hands washed and time to move on honestly regardless of what team you like.
Adolph Hitler didn't kill anyone either, he just directed things. Possibly the same as RayRay. I understand what he was convicted of....and OJ Simpson is completely innocent as well. Being "not guilty" is not the same as being innocent. I am an attorney/magistrate. You want to get into the niceties of the law, we can. You just have to pay the retainer to be educated.
Has this become a hatred against Jews now? Using them twice in examples now?
You really are ignorant, aren't you. I bring up the "Jewish" thing because Jews do not believe in the existance of a Hell......and with all this "rotting in hell" business I was merely pointing out a fact of theology.
So, we have established you know little about sports, and you know little about religion. You wanna go for the Trifecta and talk politics? (If so, go the the Political Forum)
Not really gonna go there with this...I will leave it at what it is because unlike you I will not talk about your stupidity.
First off to call Ray Lewis a MURDERER is wrong...he was never convicted of that. Its your opinion, but its false. I respect your Law knowledge, but I also think that guilty people eventually get their due...like OJ and like George Zimmerman looks like hes going to get soon. As for Ray, if he was in fact guilty he will eventually pay, but my gut says he was just caught up with the wrong people at the wrong time.
Those "people" were his bodyguards, his home boys whom he had hired to provide for his security.
And NO, an Opinion cannot be false, that is why it is an opinion. My opinion is that he may have gotten away with murder....just like, apparently, you believe OJ and Zimmerman did.
To you he may be a murderer and thats fine, but like you said thats your opinion and I just think you're wrong. Also, you have no idea what Ray Lewis the person means to this city...you've never had a player in your town like him.period. No one will probably ever experience that so Baltimore is a little jaded.
Glad we agree on Ozzie and Ravens super bowls because many Browns fans don't agree with that.
As for Modell, he shouldn't rot in hell for many many reasons....we could talk about that for hours.
Art Modell is a turncoat and a whore. He tried to take the team away from here purely out of his own greed for money.
And he got that money....the 75 million Baltimore gave him......but even that could not make up for the fact that he was incompetent and inept to the point that the banks that lent him money were threatening foreclosure of the Ravens franchise.
At that point the NFL stepped in saying they have had enough of his ineptitude and ordered the sale of the franchise to avoid the calamity of the foreclosure.
The good thing for you is that you found a good owner for your team. So be happy about it.
First of all, any smart business man would move his business if he wasn't going to get what was needed to sustain it.
The point is: he WAS getting it. The tax measure passed....but he still wouldn't accept things. DUH. Like I said, you are apparently IGNORANT of these facts.
Whatever it is...Modell certainly made the right move....I mean clearly/
I run a business and if my funders were no longer willing to support I wouldn't just let me business rot. Also, I get your upset with his move, but you have to understand Modell even after leaving spoke glowingly of CLE and he left what was important....colors, history, jerseys, heritage, records.
Well, apparently just being ignorant of facts isn't good enough for you for you appear to be a complete fucking dumbass? You not bother to read what you respond to. Modell didn't leave a GODDAMN thing.
When are you going to get that through your thick stupid head. This if the 4th time I have told you.
I mean, are you a Downs Syndrome person or what? I have told you over and over and over.
Whats the name of your team?
What are the colors?
Can you show me the history of the BROWNS in the Hall of fame?
Do you have a record book?
He left that with CLE so that the new franchise that would soon take over could live on the history of CLE football, so don't be sorry about that....All Baltimore Colts fans don't have that luxury my friend.
Also, you may have to elaborate on the Baltimore sucking more than Cleveland bit...because in terms of football I think only morons would agree with your suggestion....
Really? The last time I noticed the Pro Football Hall of Fame is located outside of Cleveland, not Baltimore. The Cleveland area has won more football championships than any other city/region (tied with Green Bay).
LOL always living the past I see..
Everything other than the Seahawks title is the past. Ony the current Champion and the next championship are relevent. The 2012 Ravens title is no more significant to what is going on now than the Akron Pros 1920 title. It is all history.
I'm glad you're looking ahead....excited for another 4-12 or 5-11 season?
.pretty sure you've never won a Super Bowl and almost positive the Baltimore Colts/Baltimore Ravens have been much more successful than the CLE football franchise, but okay.
Then you would be wrong. I gave you the facts above. The Browns themselves have won 8 championships. And there were others before them. Can you not read? Can you not count?
Baltimore would need 8 more titles to catch up even with Cleveland.
Umm maybe if you read what I wrote you would understand that you're measuring a cities championships. You're history started in the 20's Baltimore's did in the 50's, so you have 30 years (actually 39 years since we had 12 years of an absent football team) . So clearly you sound like an idiot here. If you wanna take a body of work at least take a body where the two teams were in both in existence.
Hows your baseball team doing? LOL Cleveland baseball really has a rich tradition...psh not so much.
The Indians made the playoffs this year. The Orioles didn't.
Cleveland and Baltimore's baseball histories are very similar: The Orioles are 3-3 in World Series, the Indians are 2-3....but of course the Indians have made 2 WS appearances since the last time Baltimore was in one.
Again, the Indians last won a world series when? In the 40s? The Orioles weren't even in existence. from 1965 to 1985 the Orioles were the best team in all of BASEBALL. The Indians don't have a track record of success like that.
We are a smaller city, so we don't have a basketball team anymore plus we aren't a college football city...which makes our city unique, but when the Bullets were around they were darn more successful than the Cavaliers (lord) lol.
First off, you again show igorance. Baltimore is quite a bit larger than Cleveland. 621K vs. 385K. And the Metropolitan statistical area of Wash/Baltimore is like 9.5 million vs. 3.4 million for Cleveland.
As for the Bullets.....well, they are like the Colts, you don't have them anymore. And the fact is, that team was only in Baltimore for 10 years. 1963-64 to 1973-74. And they were not more successful than the Cavs. They like the Cavs never won a title and appeared in a single finals.
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Ravens5220 said:
My parents don't like Robert Irsay, but they moved on from that and embraced their football team. We don't sit here in Baltimore and dwell on Robert Irsay or the Colts....everyone in CLE hates Baltimore purely on Art Modell...you waited 3 years to get a football team back. We waited 12 years and weren't promised anything. Got passed over by Jax, Ari, etc. for expansion by the dumbass commish Tagliabue.
Bottom line is, what is important in a franchise (history, heritage, records, colors) was never taken from Cleveland....what about Baltimore?
Trust me, idjit. People in Baltimore DO hate Irsay as much as we hate Modell.
And what about Baltimore? The NFL was hohum about whether Baltimore had a team.......that is obvious as it WAS passed over for those other cities....while the NFL intervened and fought tooth and nail for the team in Cleveland.
Trust me, idjit. People in Baltimore DO hate Irsay as much as we hate Modell.
And what about Baltimore? The NFL was hohum about whether Baltimore had a team.......that is obvious as it WAS passed over for those other cities....while the NFL intervened and fought tooth and nail for the team in Cleveland.
Fought tooth and nail because they felt bad for a sad city. Also, the majority of people in Baltimore have moved on from the Irsay thing. We have a team now that we enjoy so we no longer have to dwell on it.
Its not like the Browns don't exist anymore. Get over it...ALL people (a few exceptions) hate Modell...period. He should be a Hall of Famer. End of discussion.
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Trust me, idjit. People in Baltimore DO hate Irsay as much as we hate Modell.
And what about Baltimore? The NFL was hohum about whether Baltimore had a team.......that is obvious as it WAS passed over for those other cities....while the NFL intervened and fought tooth and nail for the team in Cleveland.
Fought tooth and nail because they felt bad for a sad city. Also, the majority of people in Baltimore have moved on from the Irsay thing. We have a team now that we enjoy so we no longer have to dwell on it.
Its not like the Browns don't exist anymore. Get over it...ALL people (a few exceptions) hate Modell...period. He should be a Hall of Famer. End of discussion.
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Trust me, idjit. People in Baltimore DO hate Irsay as much as we hate Modell.
And what about Baltimore? The NFL was hohum about whether Baltimore had a team.......that is obvious as it WAS passed over for those other cities....while the NFL intervened and fought tooth and nail for the team in Cleveland.
Fought tooth and nail because they felt bad for a sad city. Also, the majority of people in Baltimore have moved on from the Irsay thing. We have a team now that we enjoy so we no longer have to dwell on it.
Its not like the Browns don't exist anymore. Get over it...ALL people (a few exceptions) hate Modell...period. He should be a Hall of Famer. End of discussion.
Ravens5220 said:
Fought tooth and nail because they felt bad for a sad city. Also, the majority of people in Baltimore have moved on from the Irsay thing. We have a team now that we enjoy so we no longer have to dwell on it.
Its not like the Browns don't exist anymore. Get over it...ALL people (a few exceptions) hate Modell...period. He should be a Hall of Famer. End of discussion.
Modell will never be in the Hall of Fame. End of discussion.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Ravens5220 said:
Ravens5220 said:
I am very proud to be a Ravens fan...we have an amazing fan base and our franchise is one of 5 model franchises that has 2nd best home field winning percentage...multiple super bowls in the last two decades and and an organization that has shelled out the most front office staff and assistant coaches in the league. I know my facts trust me. (I hope you know your current HC and now assistants are all Ravens guys)(they got all those guys from Buffalo...some of those guys probably had jobs with half a dozen other teams, not just the Ravens.
Those facts may all be true. Thanks to Ozzie Newsome and Steve Biscotti.
This is where you are wrong....it is ALL thanks to Art Modell. You don't understand the history...football in Baltimore is a miracle and a miracle made by Art. Baltimore is the perfect football city and when he moved it here it brought all this new history and love.
I will wager you $1000.00 that I know my football history better than you.
And you sound like a drug addled fairy worshiper. Nothing will stand in the way of your delusions.
The other side is simple....the NFL ordered all of that is perfect. It leads me right into the fact that where was the NFL when Robert Irsay just snuck out of town to a lowly Indy city that has no interest in colts and history of Baltimore or football in general. Also, where was the NFL to order all the history of BALTIMORE football to be kept behind in Baltimore? Huh? Pretty sure the Baltimore Colts history since their existence is much more sacred then the Cleveland Browns...Baltimore was one of the winningest franchises in all of football (but how come no one cared about their drunk owner moving the team?)
You again and again, and over and over prove your ignorance.
You obviously are double dumbass wrong about the Colts being more important than the Browns.
And you are double dumbass wrong about the Colts being one of the winningest franchises. In fact from the early 70s to when they moved they were one of the losingest franchise. They were worse than the Browns are now.
You really have no clue about NFL history.
And apparently you have no interest in learning about it because you want to contradict FACTs
Ravens5220 said:
Ravens5220 said:
I am very proud to be a Ravens fan...we have an amazing fan base and our franchise is one of 5 model franchises that has 2nd best home field winning percentage...multiple super bowls in the last two decades and and an organization that has shelled out the most front office staff and assistant coaches in the league. I know my facts trust me. (I hope you know your current HC and now assistants are all Ravens guys)(they got all those guys from Buffalo...some of those guys probably had jobs with half a dozen other teams, not just the Ravens.
Those facts may all be true. Thanks to Ozzie Newsome and Steve Biscotti.
This is where you are wrong....it is ALL thanks to Art Modell. You don't understand the history...football in Baltimore is a miracle and a miracle made by Art. Baltimore is the perfect football city and when he moved it here it brought all this new history and love.
I will wager you $1000.00 that I know my football history better than you.
And you sound like a drug addled fairy worshiper. Nothing will stand in the way of your delusions.
I am so happy you know more football history than me. I am glad. You are probably twice my age. The one thing we both do know though is that the Browns stink...they've always stunk (as long as I've been alive) and outside of CLE or maybe inside of CLE as well they are losers and a laughing joke.
The other side is simple....the NFL ordered all of that is perfect. It leads me right into the fact that where was the NFL when Robert Irsay just snuck out of town to a lowly Indy city that has no interest in colts and history of Baltimore or football in general. Also, where was the NFL to order all the history of BALTIMORE football to be kept behind in Baltimore? Huh? Pretty sure the Baltimore Colts history since their existence is much more sacred then the Cleveland Browns...Baltimore was one of the winningest franchises in all of football (but how come no one cared about their drunk owner moving the team?)
You again and again, and over and over prove your ignorance.
You obviously are double dumbass wrong about the Colts being more important than the Browns.
And you are double dumbass wrong about the Colts being one of the winningest franchises. In fact from the early 70s to when they moved they were one of the losingest franchise. They were worse than the Browns are now.
You really have no clue about NFL history.
And apparently you have no interest in learning about it because you want to contradict FACTs
The 70's were Fucked up because when Irsay took over in 72 she fought with everyone employed with the team and milked it, but you wouldn't know anything about it. Look its fine that you're biased but I mean the Browns have always been losers. You're a top 10 loser city in sports and thats not just football, but mostly.
-
Ravens5220 said:
Ravens5220 said:
I am very proud to be a Ravens fan...we have an amazing fan base and our franchise is one of 5 model franchises that has 2nd best home field winning percentage...multiple super bowls in the last two decades and and an organization that has shelled out the most front office staff and assistant coaches in the league. I know my facts trust me. (I hope you know your current HC and now assistants are all Ravens guys)(they got all those guys from Buffalo...some of those guys probably had jobs with half a dozen other teams, not just the Ravens.
Those facts may all be true. Thanks to Ozzie Newsome and Steve Biscotti.
This is where you are wrong....it is ALL thanks to Art Modell. You don't understand the history...football in Baltimore is a miracle and a miracle made by Art. Baltimore is the perfect football city and when he moved it here it brought all this new history and love.
I will wager you $1000.00 that I know my football history better than you.
And you sound like a drug addled fairy worshiper. Nothing will stand in the way of your delusions.
I am so happy you know more football history than me. I am glad. You are probably twice my age. The one thing we both do know though is that the Browns stink...they've always stunk (as long as I've been alive) and outside of CLE or maybe inside of CLE as well they are losers and a laughing joke.
The other side is simple....the NFL ordered all of that is perfect. It leads me right into the fact that where was the NFL when Robert Irsay just snuck out of town to a lowly Indy city that has no interest in colts and history of Baltimore or football in general. Also, where was the NFL to order all the history of BALTIMORE football to be kept behind in Baltimore? Huh? Pretty sure the Baltimore Colts history since their existence is much more sacred then the Cleveland Browns...Baltimore was one of the winningest franchises in all of football (but how come no one cared about their drunk owner moving the team?)
You again and again, and over and over prove your ignorance.
You obviously are double dumbass wrong about the Colts being more important than the Browns.
And you are double dumbass wrong about the Colts being one of the winningest franchises. In fact from the early 70s to when they moved they were one of the losingest franchise. They were worse than the Browns are now.
You really have no clue about NFL history.
And apparently you have no interest in learning about it because you want to contradict FACTs
The 70's were Fucked up because when Irsay took over in 72 she fought with everyone employed with the team and milked it, but you wouldn't know anything about it. Look its fine that you're biased but I mean the Browns have always been losers. You're a top 10 loser city in sports and thats not just football, but mostly.
Ravens5220 said:
Ravens5220 said:
Ravens5220 said:
I am very proud to be a Ravens fan...we have an amazing fan base and our franchise is one of 5 model franchises that has 2nd best home field winning percentage...multiple super bowls in the last two decades and and an organization that has shelled out the most front office staff and assistant coaches in the league. I know my facts trust me. (I hope you know your current HC and now assistants are all Ravens guys)(they got all those guys from Buffalo...some of those guys probably had jobs with half a dozen other teams, not just the Ravens.
Those facts may all be true. Thanks to Ozzie Newsome and Steve Biscotti.
This is where you are wrong....it is ALL thanks to Art Modell. You don't understand the history...football in Baltimore is a miracle and a miracle made by Art. Baltimore is the perfect football city and when he moved it here it brought all this new history and love.
I will wager you $1000.00 that I know my football history better than you.
And you sound like a drug addled fairy worshiper. Nothing will stand in the way of your delusions.
I am so happy you know more football history than me. I am glad. You are probably twice my age. The one thing we both do know though is that the Browns stink...they've always stunk (as long as I've been alive) and outside of CLE or maybe inside of CLE as well they are losers and a laughing joke.
The other side is simple....the NFL ordered all of that is perfect. It leads me right into the fact that where was the NFL when Robert Irsay just snuck out of town to a lowly Indy city that has no interest in colts and history of Baltimore or football in general. Also, where was the NFL to order all the history of BALTIMORE football to be kept behind in Baltimore? Huh? Pretty sure the Baltimore Colts history since their existence is much more sacred then the Cleveland Browns...Baltimore was one of the winningest franchises in all of football (but how come no one cared about their drunk owner moving the team?)
You again and again, and over and over prove your ignorance.
You obviously are double dumbass wrong about the Colts being more important than the Browns.
And you are double dumbass wrong about the Colts being one of the winningest franchises. In fact from the early 70s to when they moved they were one of the losingest franchise. They were worse than the Browns are now.
You really have no clue about NFL history.
And apparently you have no interest in learning about it because you want to contradict FACTs
The 70's were Fucked up because when Irsay took over in 72 she fought with everyone employed with the team and milked it, but you wouldn't know anything about it. Look its fine that you're biased but I mean the Browns have always been losers. You're a top 10 loser city in sports and thats not just football, but mostly.
Stupid ass kid.
-
Trust me, idjit. People in Baltimore DO hate Irsay as much as we hate Modell.
And what about Baltimore? The NFL was hohum about whether Baltimore had a team.......that is obvious as it WAS passed over for those other cities....while the NFL intervened and fought tooth and nail for the team in Cleveland.
Fought tooth and nail because they felt bad for a sad city. Also, the majority of people in Baltimore have moved on from the Irsay thing. We have a team now that we enjoy so we no longer have to dwell on it.
Its not like the Browns don't exist anymore. Get over it...ALL people (a few exceptions) hate Modell...period. He should be a Hall of Famer. End of discussion.
-
Ravens5220 said:
No one stole anything...Baltimore didn't try and lure CLE here behind their backs. Modell approach Baltimore and Baltimore lent their hand to a failing owner who needed cash.
Now you are laughable. Do you wear clown makeup around the house?
After Baltimore lost the bid for an expansion franchise they went trolling for another team. They just happened to find one with an inept owner that was greedy for cash.
Modell WAS a failed owner who didn't know how to run an NFL team. Clearly that is the case because he was kicked out of the league. And he wanted cash....and probably needed it because he was so piss poor at running things he was losing money.
But the "approach" was made by Schaefer and the MD governor. (can't recall the name)
Now you are laughable. Do you wear clown makeup around the house?
After Baltimore lost the bid for an expansion franchise they went trolling for another team. They just happened to find one with an inept owner that was greedy for cash.
Modell WAS a failed owner who didn't know how to run an NFL team. Clearly that is the case because he was kicked out of the league. And he wanted cash....and probably needed it because he was so piss poor at running things he was losing money.
But the "approach" was made by Schaefer and the MD governor. (can't recall the name)
Yeah, once they knew Modell was interested they approached him...of course. First off, you have the CLE side of the story so of course we will never agree....
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