Wait for WR until the 3rd round

miktoxic

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I already said I wouldnt draft Shazier and that I doubt we pick a OLB at 4. Mack is still a possibility because he can play everywhere. My bet is we trade down if Mack or Clowney is available.

no i was talking to the OP.

all these different mocks from different sites, with different scenarios is all just crazy.

when it happens, it happens.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
I think its very plausible we end up with 3 of the first 26.

I'd love to know why or how.

Flyin J

How much realistically, do you think it would cost to move from 35 to 22 or so? Our extra third and fourth would probably do it....

Flyin J

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
I'd love to know why or how.

cant say why, depends on who theyre targeting. Just saying it could happen, easily.

Tim Couch Pulls Out

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
cant say why, depends on who theyre targeting. Just saying it could happen, easily.

I do not think "easily" means what you think it means.

Flyin J

Depends on how youre using it. All im saying is that its far from impossible. Improbable, maybe....

Tim Couch Pulls Out

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
Depends on how youre using it. All im saying is that its far from impossible. Improbable, maybe....

It's certainly possible, just unlikely. Thanks to Dan Snyder, the going price of first round picks is through the roof.

Bummie

On my phone so quoting all posts im responding to is a no go. For the first 3 rounders...the Pats are a team, for example, who love to trade down. Its something you expect every year. From 35 to 29 would likely cost our 3rd, maybe our 5th. Theres a point system for picks. Look one up if you havent seen one. Pretty interesting. Walterfootball has one thats easy to read. Low first rounders and high second rounders are not far off in value.

I saw one of you mention mocks, hows theres a ton of them...its true, and none matter, but I like looking at all 7 rounds worth of prospects and debating picks for each. Rather than a thread dedicated to one player or position, I like a full team approach. A mock brings that out.

Why take Mack and Shazier? Mack is obvious...the most sacks by a single player last year was 5.5 - pretty sad. Shazier is a transition pick. I want him beside Dansby. He ran a 4.36 40 at his pro day, has a 42in vertical, is good in coverage and can tackle. The only knock on him is size. You can build size once you're paid to train year around. You cant, though, teach the speed that he has. Even without size, I start him beside Dansby. In 2 years with size and experience in our scheme, he could be a top 5 ILB. Heck, I would downgrade the QB pick to pick 35 to land Mack and Shazier with no trade up.

Bummie

And after all that, ive changed my approach a bit. I want Gilber to start across from Haden. I think the improvement on D from 2 solid corners would be greater than the improvement from adding Mack at OLB. Plus, you're more likely to find an solid OLB in future drafts than to find a corner who can play press man. Like this draft...all I see after Gilbert are zone CBs that you hope can transition to a solid man CB. Plus, Gilbers 6ft, height we need.

So, would you pass on Watkins and Mack to trade down (if its there) to 8 or 10 and grab Gilbert, then Shazier at 26 (for above explanation), QB at 35, then Hyde or a WR with the second 2nd round pick (trade up in 2nd if needed to land our guy)?

hoorta

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
How much realistically, do you think it would cost to move from 35 to 22 or so? Our extra third and fourth would probably do it....

Brady Quinn = our second, and next year's first. That's what it cost to move up that high. That was a dumb trade. OTOH, realistically, it's our second, top third and next years second. Still interested?

Rooster Dick

Typical browns board thread... a draft that doesn't consist of any STUD player. All will be duds. Imagine that.

Flyin J

@tim-couch-pulls-out said:
It's certainly possible, just unlikely. Thanks to Dan Snyder, the going price of first round picks is through the roof.

not really, word is, everyone wants to trade down this year. And the price of the #22 pick would be nothing compared to the #2 pick and the highly rated RG3. There was a bidding war for that pick, which is why the price skyrocketed.

Flyin J

@hoorta said:

Brady Quinn = our second, and next year's first. That's what it cost to move up that high. That was a dumb trade. OTOH, realistically, it's our second, top third and next years second. Still interested?

that was a dumb trade...our second, top third and next years third.

The Gipper

@miktoxic said:
why draft both mack and shazier though?

Possibly because ILB is our weakest position? Quality run stuffers and TE/slot receiver coverage is our biggest need.

It would not break my heart to see them do this honestly.

The Gipper

XxDaBuckeyexX said:
How much realistically, do you think it would cost to move from 35 to 22 or so? Our extra third and fourth would probably do it....

OK, well, gopher it Browns.

The Gipper

@rooster-dick said:
Typical browns board thread... a draft that doesn't consist of any STUD player. All will be duds. Imagine that.

Well, most analysts say that Clowney is the biggest stud to come around on defense in years.....but beyond him perhaps you are right there are no 100+ grade studs, but most say this is a deep draft in overall talent.

So, it may not be a good year for that one power stud....but it may be a good year to pick a number of quality players.

Bummie

@rooster-dick said:
Typical browns board thread... a draft that doesn't consist of any STUD player. All will be duds. Imagine that.

I see your opinion, but see no reasoning for the basis. Typical response from a fan who chimes in to feel involved. Imagine that.

Bummie

I know the offense is the center of attention, but I see that as more of a quarterback issue than anything else. We need a right tackle and wide receiver as well. The draft is loaded with offensive talent. You can find starters in the 2nd and 3rd that would have went much higher in previous years. Defense is a different story when it comes to our needs. I'm huge on Christian Jones, I think he has great potential for a 3rd or 4th rounder, when do you stop drafting guys in those rounds that you know you'll look to replace in a couple of years? He would get worked in coverage, as most of the ILB would in the mid to late rounds of this draft, expecially considering the high speed, passing league the NFL has become.

I read that the Texans and Rams are working to trade down and have found few showing serious interest. I've also read that because of this, the Browns pick at 4 is becoming a hot pick for those looking to trade up. Teams are waiting to see how things fall, and a guy like Watkins or Mack could very well be the guys that pull in trade offers at 4. Getting Gilbert at 8 or 10 with an extra second rounder would be sick. As much as I want a QB in the first, I get the feeling Winston and/or Mariota (as Farmer has suggested) are higher on our list. Build the foundation and get our QB when he's there. Taking a guy at 4, 26 or even 35 is a waste if he's not the guy.

Remarker

@rooster-dick said:
Typical browns board thread... a draft that doesn't consist of any STUD player. All will be duds. Imagine that.

Well, the Browns have a secret weapon now. (Shh, don't tell anyone but it's Pettine and his crew).

Bummie

My favorite part about debating our draft strategy (knowing I have no say in any of it, but liking football too much to just sit quietly and wait for the draft) is listening to the case made for a QB, WR, and OT in the draft. The usual reasoning is that, heck, the defense was good last year, and they will be better with no improvement if we can just keep the offense on the field longer. For this, I have to agree. But, I look at it like this...

Take 2 teams from 2013, the Broncos and Seahawks.

Manning had 5,477 passing yards, 55:10 TD:INT ratio (5.5:1), a 68.3 completion percentage, and was sacked 18 times while averaging 342 yards per game.

Wilson had 3,357 passing yards, 26:9 TD:INT ratio (2.8:1), a 63.1 completion percentage, and was sacked 44 times while averaging 210 yards per game.

Broncos Defense: Allowed 356.0 yards per game (254.4 passing / 101.6 rushing) and 24.9 points per game, while racking up 41 sacks and 17 interceptions.

Seahawks Defense: Allowed 273.6 yards per game (172.0 passing / 101.6 rushing) and 14.4 points per game, while racking up 44 sacks and 28 interceptions.

You have a great quarterback (Manning) that took an average defense and an otherwise average or below team and took them to the super bowl. You have an average quarterback (Wilson - say I'm wrong, show me the facts) that was carried by a great defense and a team that would likely still be great with another average or above quarterback, and took them to the super bowl...and won it. Now switch those quarterbacks; Wilson to Denver and Manning to Seattle. You have an average Denver team who may have not even made the playoffs and a Seattle team who I imagine would destroy...everything.

My point - there's no Manning in this draft at QB. There's no can't miss guy. There is though, a couple Russell Wilson's, Alex Smith's, and maybe an Andy Dalton or two. So why would we go out and spend a high pick (first or second round) on a guy out of "need" when we have a draft full of game managers and no more than MAYBE 1 emerging game changer? Our defense is fairly solid. We're missing just a few pieces. We had no standout sack artists, but we did rack up 41. We allowed 10 more rushing yards per game than Seattle, which isn't horrible, but we did allow 50 more passing yards and 11 more points per game, which is. Yeah, we're better than most, but that's not really gonna cut it unless we get THE quarterback.

- - - - - DEFENSE - - - - -

D Line: Leave as is. Maybe look at additions in late rounds.

OLB: Mingo is young (23). Sheard is young (24). For me, I like adding Mack and wouldn't be disappointed if we did, but I also like waiting to see what Pettine can do with these guys first. Drafted in the 1st an 2nd round, respectively, they both were highly sought at one time. I'd like to see how they do this year.

ILB: We brought in Dansby to start. I'll leave it at that. Robertson is a different story. There's an obvious weakness here that needs fixed. This is why I push Shazier at 26. The only knock on the guy is his size. For comparison, Robertson is 6'1'', 234lb after 3 years as a pro; Shazier is 6'1'', 237lb coming out of college, who is better in coverage, makes tackles, and has a faster 40 time by .3 seconds, a higher vertical by 7.5 inches. This pick screams at me. It screams day one starter, day one defensive improvement.

CB: Haden is solid. Enough said. We badly need someone across from him. With Pettine, we don't need a zone corner...we don't want a zone corner. This is from NFL.com's draft profile on Skrine (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/buster-skrine?id=2495343 "Plays disciplined in zone coverage." Awesome, if we were the Bucs. We're not, and as you look at the CB class this year you see one trend, that 90-95% of these guys are made for the zone. That's why we need Justin Gilbert. This is from his NFL.com draft profile (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/justin-gilbert?id=2543473): "A big, fast, athletic, man-cover corner capable of locking down receivers." THAT, is exactly what we need.

SS/FS: Whitner has the spot on lock. Gipson, however, does not. He's improved and I think can get it done this year, but could use some competition. I wouldn't take anyone early for this, and we shouldn't have to. One of the most underrated FS prospects can be had in the 4th or later, mostly because he's viewed as a corner. Dontae Johnson - 6'2'', 200lb, 4.45 40, 38.5 vert (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/dontae-johnson?id=2543739). Played 7 games as a FS his final year. Has the speed to help corners who get burnt and the size and vert to assist on jump balls. I'd take him all day as a mid to late round pick.

Takeaway: We need a CB and ILB with a high pick and FS with a mid to late rounder.

- - - - - OFFENSE - - - - -

O Line: Obvious need here. Thomas is set at LT, and between young Pinkston and Gilkey, and Greco, Schwartz and McQuistan, we will be able to fill the LG and RG position. The need is a RT. Schwarts and McQuistan can assist here, but we badly need a new prospect in the mix. I can see a guy as early as the second and no lower than the third filling this role. To be real, I would like Greg Robinson, but we have more need than O Line in the first round. Morgan Moses and Joe Bitonio are guys I would look for in the 2nd, and Antonio Richardson is a guy I'd look at in the 3rd. All guys who could bring improvement to the line.

WR/TE: Gordon, Hawkins, and Cameron are locked in, with Benjamin and either Little or Burleson providing them rest. We need someone to start day one over Little, and I have the suspicion that the considered signing of Burleson indicates that this may be a position that falls to the 3rd round in this years draft, not because Burleson's our solution, but because we don't plan to sign a guy like Watkins or Evans. I think he's a patch for a year or two to see if our 3rd rounder works out and to sustain us until 2015-2016 where we grab a WR in the 1st or 2nd if not. I explained in the opening post of this thread; I am high on Donte Moncrief. He's 6'2'', 221lb, runs a 4.40 40, and has a 39.5in vertical. Per NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/donte-moncrief?id=2543614 He's a "Big, physically gifted “X” receiver with deep speed, “above-the-rim” potential and playmaking ability. Has a ceiling as a No. 1 or No. 2 in a vertical passing offense, and his best football is in front him." If the WR class thins before we get close to our first 3rd round pick, give up a 4th rounder and move up for this guy. We have 10 picks. I'd rather walk with 5-7 quality guys with a potential to start this or next year than to get 10, most of which will never see the field.

RB: Between Tate and the supporting cast, we should be okay. Grab a guy in the 3rd round or later and see what happens. I like Simms and think he'll be there at our second 3rd round pick, but would take any player better or the BPA at the position when we decide to pull the trigger.

QB: Hoyer will likely start for us this season. I said it above, no need to restate in depth. I don't see "the guy" this year. I'll be happy if they rock the draft at the positions of need mentioned above and pick up depth at the position in hopes to land a solid backup and possibly win the lottery with an unexpected talent.

Takeaway: We need a QB, WR, OT, and RB, with many options as to which rounds to take these guys in.

- - - - - EDITED MOCK - - - - -

Push hard to trade down so someone can grab Mack, Watkins or a QB. For this scenario, I'm going with the Lions at 10 and they take Watkins to be Megatron's successor.

1(10) From Lions: Justin Gilbert, CB

1(26): Ryan Shazier, ILB

2(03): Derek Carr or Jimmy Garoppolo, QB

2(13) From Lions: Morgan Moses or Joe Bitonio, OT

3(07): Donte Moncrief, WR

3(19): Antonio Richardson, OT

4(06): Charles Simms, RB

4(27): Dakota Dozier, G

5(05): Jared Abbrederis, WR

6(04): Dontae Johnson, CB/FS

7(03): Keith Wenning or James Franklin, QB