Jonathan Paul Manziel
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Yup he went to Texas and was a product of Mack's final decent season along with someone, we as Browns, should be familiar with.
I'm trying..... still see no qualitative reason for him to "suck"
Well what has he done? That should answer your question. Amendola would've been a better example for your questionable statement.
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Yup he went to Texas and was a product of Mack's final decent season along with someone, we as Browns, should be familiar with.
I'm trying..... still see no qualitative reason for him to "suck"
Well what has he done? That should answer your question. Amendola would've been a better example for your questionable statement.
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ame="SCDawg82" post="403850" timestamp="1399421722"]
In the pro's? Torn an ACL. Takes time to bounce back from that. But his college career was what the crux of my argument was based around. He wasn't even the argument.... He was one example. I could name MANY more.
If anything he is a shining example that disproves your point. If he had gone higher he would've been even more of a bust.
79 receptions, 858 yards and 4 TD over a 4 year, 24 game, 3 team career. He is currently a free agent and I don't see teams beating each other to death for a chance to sign him.
I feel comfortable classifying his production level in the suck range.
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ame="SCDawg82" post="403850" timestamp="1399421722"]
In the pro's? Torn an ACL. Takes time to bounce back from that. But his college career was what the crux of my argument was based around. He wasn't even the argument.... He was one example. I could name MANY more.
If anything he is a shining example that disproves your point. If he had gone higher he would've been even more of a bust.
79 receptions, 858 yards and 4 TD over a 4 year, 24 game, 3 team career. He is currently a free agent and I don't see teams beating each other to death for a chance to sign him.
I feel comfortable classifying his production level in the suck range.
ame="SCDawg82" post="403853" timestamp="1399422233"]
Surely those arent
If anything he is a shining example that disproves your point. If he had gone higher he would've been even more of a bust.
79 receptions, 858 yards and 4 TD over a 4 year, 24 game, 3 team career. He is currently a free agent and I don't see teams beating each other to death for a chance to sign him.
I feel comfortable classifying his production level in the suck range.
Sure those aren't his collegiate statistics. I could go look, but I'm certain he was FAR more productive than that at Texas.
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ame="SCDawg82" post="403853" timestamp="1399422233"]
Surely those arent
If anything he is a shining example that disproves your point. If he had gone higher he would've been even more of a bust.
79 receptions, 858 yards and 4 TD over a 4 year, 24 game, 3 team career. He is currently a free agent and I don't see teams beating each other to death for a chance to sign him.
I feel comfortable classifying his production level in the suck range.
Sure those aren't his collegiate statistics. I could go look, but I'm certain he was FAR more productive than that at Texas.
Sure those aren't his collegiate statistics. I could go look, but I'm certain he was FAR more productive than that at Texas.
So it doesn't matter he can't cut it in the NFL, what does is he was white and didn't get a fair shake? Is that the beyond ridiculous point you're trying to make?
If so you're not doing very well. All of those people you listed in your original post had some other deficiency that caused their stock to drop, not their race.
Shipley and Borland - not elite athletes
Welker - short
Thomas - I was more concerned about Legos and the Power Rangers than the NFL draft at that time but I'm sure you can look up his scouting reports out of college and find an actual fault outside of his skin color that prevented him from being the top draft pick of all time.
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Sure those aren't his collegiate statistics. I could go look, but I'm certain he was FAR more productive than that at Texas.
So it doesn't matter he can't cut it in the NFL, what does is he was white and didn't get a fair shake? Is that the beyond ridiculous point you're trying to make?
If so you're not doing very well. All of those people you listed in your original post had some other deficiency that caused their stock to drop, not their race.
Shipley and Borland - not elite athletes
Welker - short
Thomas - I was more concerned about Legos and the Power Rangers than the NFL draft at that time but I'm sure you can look up his scouting reports out of college and find an actual fault outside of his skin color that prevented him from being the top draft pick of all time.
So it doesn't matter he can't cut it in the NFL, what does is he was white and didn't get a fair shake? Is that the beyond ridiculous point you're trying to make?
If so you're not doing very well. All of those people you listed in your original post had some other deficiency that caused their stock to drop, not their race.
Shipley and Borland - not elite athletes
Welker - short
Thomas - I was more concerned about Legos and the Power Rangers than the NFL draft at that time but I'm sure you can look up his scouting reports out of college and find an actual fault outside of his skin color that prevented him from being the top draft pick of all time.
So... Are you draft athletes or football players?! You arent too young to remember Darrius Heywood Bey. His production was garbage next to Shipley's. If you took Shipley's production, his quantitative numbers from the combine, there's no way that player goes past the top 10, but less past the whole first round.
Your argument with welker is short? dude.....Nevermind.....
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So it doesn't matter he can't cut it in the NFL, what does is he was white and didn't get a fair shake? Is that the beyond ridiculous point you're trying to make?
If so you're not doing very well. All of those people you listed in your original post had some other deficiency that caused their stock to drop, not their race.
Shipley and Borland - not elite athletes
Welker - short
Thomas - I was more concerned about Legos and the Power Rangers than the NFL draft at that time but I'm sure you can look up his scouting reports out of college and find an actual fault outside of his skin color that prevented him from being the top draft pick of all time.
So... Are you draft athletes or football players?! You arent too young to remember Darrius Heywood Bey. His production was garbage next to Shipley's. If you took Shipley's production, his quantitative numbers from the combine, there's no way that player goes past the top 10, but less past the whole first round.
Your argument with welker is short? dude.....Nevermind.....
So it doesn't matter he can't cut it in the NFL, what does is he was white and didn't get a fair shake? Is that the beyond ridiculous point you're trying to make?
If so you're not doing very well. All of those people you listed in your original post had some other deficiency that caused their stock to drop, not their race.
Shipley and Borland - not elite athletes
Welker - short
Thomas - I was more concerned about Legos and the Power Rangers than the NFL draft at that time but I'm sure you can look up his scouting reports out of college and find an actual fault outside of his skin color that prevented him from being the top draft pick of all time.
So... Are you draft athletes or football players?! You arent too young to remember Darrius Heywood Bey. His production was garbage next to Shipley's. If you took Shipley's production, his quantitative numbers from the combine, there's no way that player goes past the top 10, but less past the whole first round.
Your argument with welker is short? dude.....Nevermind.....
The biggest reason DHB was drafted at 7 was due to Al Davis so not the best example. However drafting a prospect is as much about his potential as his college production. DHB possessed the raw athletic ability to have a much higher potential than Shipley ever did. While DHB was a reach a 7, he would've been taken higher than Shipley regardless. You can't teach speed or height.
As for Welker, he is short for an NFL WR. He also doesn't have prototypical top line speed you look for in a first round draft pick either. Where he does excel is his quickness, agility, knowledge of the game and his ability to find soft spots in coverage. It's tough to spot some of that ability when all of your game tape is in Mike Leech's air raid offense.
(FYI Welker is a bit of a folk hero down here in Oklahoma due to him growing up in OKC, being a classic underdog and all.)
Nice try attempting to dismiss my knowledge of him though. Would you like to continue to make an ass of yourself or would you prefer to just chalk this one up as a loss?
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This is what I have been saying for the past two days. Haslam is the only one in the FO who wants Manziel, the only one who has him rated high. The actual people with football knowledge don't even have him in their top 3 QBs. Haslam said weeks ago that he wouldn't be making football decisions, he is going to let the people he hired do that. IF Manziel is picked at #4, then it means Haslam is full of shit and everything he has promised us he is not.
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I watched that entire JF vs Duke video. When exactly did he run dudes over?
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@walterwhite said:
You don't know what ANY GM wants at this point, NOBODY does.
It's all smoke, mirrors, and everyone trying to fuck the other guy on the deal.
It's pure chaos in draft rooms right now, everyone fielding calls, offers, etc.
Just sit back, relax, and wait for the draft.
But I do know what the BROWNS GM has ranked as his #1 and #3 QB, with the 2nd ranked QB slipping my mind. I will say it is not where near what the media is claiming the order should be.
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So it doesn't matter he can't cut it in the NFL, what does is he was white and didn't get a fair shake? Is that the beyond ridiculous point you're trying to make?
If so you're not doing very well. All of those people you listed in your original post had some other deficiency that caused their stock to drop, not their race.
Shipley and Borland - not elite athletes
Welker - short
Thomas - I was more concerned about Legos and the Power Rangers than the NFL draft at that time but I'm sure you can look up his scouting reports out of college and find an actual fault outside of his skin color that prevented him from being the top draft pick of all time.
So... Are you draft athletes or football players?! You arent too young to remember Darrius Heywood Bey. His production was garbage next to Shipley's. If you took Shipley's production, his quantitative numbers from the combine, there's no way that player goes past the top 10, but less past the whole first round.
Your argument with welker is short? dude.....Nevermind.....
The biggest reason DHB was drafted at 7 was due to Al Davis so not the best example. However drafting a prospect is as much about his potential as his college production. DHB possessed the raw athletic ability to have a much higher potential than Shipley ever did. While DHB was a reach a 7, he would've been taken higher than Shipley regardless. You can't teach speed or height.
As for Welker, he is short for an NFL WR. He also doesn't have prototypical top line speed you look for in a first round draft pick either. Where he does excel is his quickness, agility, knowledge of the game and his ability to find soft spots in coverage. It's tough to spot some of that ability when all of your game tape is in Mike Leech's air raid offense.
(FYI Welker is a bit of a folk hero down here in Oklahoma due to him growing up in OKC, being a classic underdog and all.)
Nice try attempting to dismiss my knowledge of him though. Would you like to continue to make an ass of yourself or would you prefer to just chalk this one up as a loss?
The biggest reason DHB was drafted at 7 was due to Al Davis so not the best example. However drafting a prospect is as much about his potential as his college production. DHB possessed the raw athletic ability to have a much higher potential than Shipley ever did. While DHB was a reach a 7, he would've been taken higher than Shipley regardless. You can't teach speed or height.
As for Welker, he is short for an NFL WR. He also doesn't have prototypical top line speed you look for in a first round draft pick either. Where he does excel is his quickness, agility, knowledge of the game and his ability to find soft spots in coverage. It's tough to spot some of that ability when all of your game tape is in Mike Leech's air raid offense.
(FYI Welker is a bit of a folk hero down here in Oklahoma due to him growing up in OKC, being a classic underdog and all.)
Nice try attempting to dismiss my knowledge of him though. Would you like to continue to make an ass of yourself or would you prefer to just chalk this one up as a loss?
Are you serious.....? are you really starting a pissing contest on a message board?! Go play with power rangers and lego's little buddy.
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The biggest reason DHB was drafted at 7 was due to Al Davis so not the best example. However drafting a prospect is as much about his potential as his college production. DHB possessed the raw athletic ability to have a much higher potential than Shipley ever did. While DHB was a reach a 7, he would've been taken higher than Shipley regardless. You can't teach speed or height.
As for Welker, he is short for an NFL WR. He also doesn't have prototypical top line speed you look for in a first round draft pick either. Where he does excel is his quickness, agility, knowledge of the game and his ability to find soft spots in coverage. It's tough to spot some of that ability when all of your game tape is in Mike Leech's air raid offense.
(FYI Welker is a bit of a folk hero down here in Oklahoma due to him growing up in OKC, being a classic underdog and all.)
Nice try attempting to dismiss my knowledge of him though. Would you like to continue to make an ass of yourself or would you prefer to just chalk this one up as a loss?
Are you serious.....? are you really starting a pissing contest on a message board?! Go play with power rangers and lego's little buddy.
The biggest reason DHB was drafted at 7 was due to Al Davis so not the best example. However drafting a prospect is as much about his potential as his college production. DHB possessed the raw athletic ability to have a much higher potential than Shipley ever did. While DHB was a reach a 7, he would've been taken higher than Shipley regardless. You can't teach speed or height.
As for Welker, he is short for an NFL WR. He also doesn't have prototypical top line speed you look for in a first round draft pick either. Where he does excel is his quickness, agility, knowledge of the game and his ability to find soft spots in coverage. It's tough to spot some of that ability when all of your game tape is in Mike Leech's air raid offense.
(FYI Welker is a bit of a folk hero down here in Oklahoma due to him growing up in OKC, being a classic underdog and all.)
Nice try attempting to dismiss my knowledge of him though. Would you like to continue to make an ass of yourself or would you prefer to just chalk this one up as a loss?
Are you serious.....? are you really starting a pissing contest on a message board?! Go play with power rangers and lego's little buddy.
You started it my man, I'm just finishing it. I'll take your lack of a response as you waving the white flag. It's been fun.
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The biggest reason DHB was drafted at 7 was due to Al Davis so not the best example. However drafting a prospect is as much about his potential as his college production. DHB possessed the raw athletic ability to have a much higher potential than Shipley ever did. While DHB was a reach a 7, he would've been taken higher than Shipley regardless. You can't teach speed or height.
As for Welker, he is short for an NFL WR. He also doesn't have prototypical top line speed you look for in a first round draft pick either. Where he does excel is his quickness, agility, knowledge of the game and his ability to find soft spots in coverage. It's tough to spot some of that ability when all of your game tape is in Mike Leech's air raid offense.
(FYI Welker is a bit of a folk hero down here in Oklahoma due to him growing up in OKC, being a classic underdog and all.)
Nice try attempting to dismiss my knowledge of him though. Would you like to continue to make an ass of yourself or would you prefer to just chalk this one up as a loss?
Are you serious.....? are you really starting a pissing contest on a message board?! Go play with power rangers and lego's little buddy.
You started it my man, I'm just finishing it. I'll take your lack of a response as you waving the white flag. It's been fun.
You started it my man, I'm just finishing it. I'll take your lack of a response as you waving the white flag. It's been fun.
If I took the time (which I dont have) to look at all the comparable WR's who have been drafted in the first round with the same #'s, id find a TON!
He's 6', 195lb's, ran a 4.5, with a 36" vertical. You couple that with the numbers he put up. 3191 yards and 33 touchdown in his career. Capping off his career with a Nat'l championship game performance of 10 receptions 122 yards 2 touchdowns (not mention ALL with a Freshman QB that couldn't find his @$$ with both hands and a map). He's got the stats, he's got measurable.
I dont see how you can intellectually honestly argue ALL that. But again, I can even give you that he's a bad example if it means that much to you. I could make a list over the years of players I've seen it happen to. All under the guise of "Athleticism". Its discrimination that isnt even subtle.
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The biggest reason DHB was drafted at 7 was due to Al Davis so not the best example. However drafting a prospect is as much about his potential as his college production. DHB possessed the raw athletic ability to have a much higher potential than Shipley ever did. While DHB was a reach a 7, he would've been taken higher than Shipley regardless. You can't teach speed or height.
As for Welker, he is short for an NFL WR. He also doesn't have prototypical top line speed you look for in a first round draft pick either. Where he does excel is his quickness, agility, knowledge of the game and his ability to find soft spots in coverage. It's tough to spot some of that ability when all of your game tape is in Mike Leech's air raid offense.
(FYI Welker is a bit of a folk hero down here in Oklahoma due to him growing up in OKC, being a classic underdog and all.)
Nice try attempting to dismiss my knowledge of him though. Would you like to continue to make an ass of yourself or would you prefer to just chalk this one up as a loss?
Are you serious.....? are you really starting a pissing contest on a message board?! Go play with power rangers and lego's little buddy.
You started it my man, I'm just finishing it. I'll take your lack of a response as you waving the white flag. It's been fun.
You started it my man, I'm just finishing it. I'll take your lack of a response as you waving the white flag. It's been fun.
And while were on this subject. I got another guy for ya. I'm really pumped to hear your explanation for him!
Peter Warrick. #4 Overall Pick for the Cincy Bengals in 2000.
5-11 190. Similar statistics, but ran a high end 4.6 almost a 4.7 in the 40.
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@mike-h said:
I blog with Shawn at Dawg Pound Nation, and have met his source... he has been right about everything this offseason:
ha! you are funny. shawn at dawg pound nation. GTFO of here. shawn? we all know him as.............well shawn from dawg pound nation which means absolutely nothing. i'm sure shawn is sitting in with jimmy, ray and mike in the war room discussing their big board.
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