Jonathan Paul Manziel
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
There is NOTHING wrong with Manziels character. Nothing.
You miss that picture? if I'm a GM that's not exactly the sort of clientele I want my franchise quarterback hanging out with on Saturday night.
Farmer did make a reference to it- that JF didn't handle the fame & adulation well. The question is- This is the big boy league now- time to grow up kid. Question is can he?
You miss that picture? if I'm a GM that's not exactly the sort of clientele I want my franchise quarterback hanging out with on Saturday night.
Farmer did make a reference to it- that JF didn't handle the fame & adulation well. The question is- This is the big boy league now- time to grow up kid. Question is can he?
Farmer actually said he really liked how JF has grown and says he has no problem with his character "issues" now, and also mentioned that the only reason they wouldn't draft him is if they didn't think he could play in the NFL. Says he had a lot thrown at him early with the fame but he has learned how to deal with it and is all about football and competing now.
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and the kid is a liar. he went on gruden QB camp and played the choir boy saying he was wrong playing the fame card and hanging out like he did and was going to change.
yeah, really? all he's done since is show up for the cameras, hang out and be the new 'kid celebrity' (Tiny Canadian Pussy Douche move over, lol).
hey there's nothing wrong with hanging out but if you're about to make a ton of money and you are telling people one thing and doing the exact opposite, how do you think those people are looking at you?
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XxDaBuckeyexX said:
There is NOTHING wrong with Manziels character. Nothing.
You miss that picture? if I'm a GM that's not exactly the sort of clientele I want my franchise quarterback hanging out with on Saturday night.
Farmer did make a reference to it- that JF didn't handle the fame & adulation well. The question is- This is the big boy league now- time to grow up kid. Question is can he?
You miss that picture? if I'm a GM that's not exactly the sort of clientele I want my franchise quarterback hanging out with on Saturday night.
Farmer did make a reference to it- that JF didn't handle the fame & adulation well. The question is- This is the big boy league now- time to grow up kid. Question is can he?
What was wrong with that picture? And what teenager has ever handled fame and adulation well?
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Is a Brown, unfortunately.
I will always love you Bortles.
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I want Johnny Football.
I respect your opinion 'Peen, but I have to disagree. Ya hang with gangstas, ya tend to get into gangsta trouble, eventually. Or a Ben Rapisberger situation with the ladies.
If Manziel had Carr's Bridgewater's or McCarron's character background, I'd have a lot less doubts about his draftability high in the first round. OK Dan Marino had a rep as a party-hearty in college that dropped his draft stock- but he wasn't hanging out with thugs.
As above, LSU showed the world how to defense JF- and NFL defensive coordinators are a lot quicker on the uptake.
As to Playground Legend's assertion that Manziel can hang with guys bigger than him on the football field- it depends on their conditioning, and athletic ability. Aren't any 250 pound marshmallows in the NFL.
The Browns are not going to draft Johnny Futball.
Not going to happen. Not a fit.
Not if character counts, they won't.
I respect your opinion 'Peen, but I have to disagree. Ya hang with gangstas, ya tend to get into gangsta trouble, eventually. Or a Ben Rapisberger situation with the ladies.
If Manziel had Carr's Bridgewater's or McCarron's character background, I'd have a lot less doubts about his draftability high in the first round. OK Dan Marino had a rep as a party-hearty in college that dropped his draft stock- but he wasn't hanging out with thugs.
As above, LSU showed the world how to defense JF- and NFL defensive coordinators are a lot quicker on the uptake.
As to Playground Legend's assertion that Manziel can hang with guys bigger than him on the football field- it depends on their conditioning, and athletic ability. Aren't any 250 pound marshmallows in the NFL.
Not if character counts, they won't.
I am very much looking forward to you saying how much you like Johnny Manziel as a person two years from now.
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Can't wait to merge all of the Johnny Football threads and close them when we don't pick him.
I think he has T-Rich's record beat.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Can't wait to merge all of the Johnny Football threads and close them when we don't pick him.
I think he has T-Rich's record beat.
Zombo
Merge them now. And then Friday morning you will probably be able to close them.
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ESPN Sal Palentonio reported on NFL Live moments ago.
Sal interviewed Ray Farmer and reported the following:
"Yesterday Haslam came into their draft meeting, looked everybody in the eye and then addressed Ray Farmer and said, 'This is your pick. This is your draft.' Obviously trying to douse speculation that it's Haslam who is calling the shots."
"However, when I asked Ray Farmer to describe Johnny Manziel. What his reaction to Johnny Manziel. He gave me two words. He said, 'Polarizing Lightening-rod.' He did not say two-words, franchise quarterback."
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Farmer has nothing but good to say about every one. Espn tryin like hell to blow their darling JF.
"We are Americans. We don't quit doing something because it's wrong. We just keep doing the wrong thing till it turns out right." Browns maybe the most American Football team ever. -
Only one who knows for sure who they will get is the team who picks No. one.
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Farmer has nothing but good to say about every one. Espn tryin like hell to blow their darling JF.
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If we are looking for a "polarizing, lightning rod" player, we should draft someone from Palantonio's hometown of Philly: Ben Franklin.
I mean, he would be money. 🥷
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No JF
Yes Evans
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Derek Carr will throw twice the interceptions as Manziel could ever dream of throwing.
Derick Carr will remind us of Weeden.
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Was going to make my case against JF in a new thread, but on an effort to preserve Z's sanity...or what's left of it... here goes...
Besides it'd just get merged anyway... like my Sal Pal thread did...
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29134&page=9&do=findComment&comment=404191
===========================================
Why Johnny Manziel must not be drafted.
The 2012/ 2013 Texas Aggie Edition of Johnny Manziel that thrilled millions of fans is as good as he will ever be.
So the first question is how good was he?
Was he Pro playoff good? Yes...
Was he Pro Conference Champ good? I don't think so... so I can not see a single SB appearance in a team's future with him at the helm.
So next question is why isn't he Conf Champ good? For this we have to look at QB comparisons...
Favre (2 SB appearances; 1 SB win)
There are a lot of valid elements to this popular comparison... running ability... gambling nature... guts... bailing out of pocket... poor judgment.. ego... However, the one element lacking that collapses the comparison is arm strength and without this critical element Manziel will consistently write Favre-like checks that his JF arm cannot cash.
Fran Tarkenton (3 SB appearances; 0 SB wins)
Sir Francis, as those of us at certain age know him, was a trailblazer in the art of scrambling. And he scrambled out of necessity. Tarkenton ran for his life behind some very porous lines in both MN and NY.
Fran almost exclusively ran to buy time to pass... to extend pass plays. He "ran" infrequently averaging just over 15 ypg for his career... his 18-year career. His rushing zenith was 376 yards on 62 carries in 12 games in 1966. Not coincidentally in '66 Fran missed the only two starts of his career outside of his rookie season. This in an era where there was open season on any QB, if you could catch them.
Fran ran 675 times in an 18-year pro career... JF ran 345 times in a two-year college career. Some of JF's runs were by staff/ game plan design, but many, many more were spawned by JF's lack of patience in the pocket.
And finally...
R. Wilson (1 SB appearance; 1 SB win)
I've seen this comparison in a few places and it bewilders me. Beyond size (including the now popular hand size), it's hard to find any valid elements here.
Wilson is a smart football player who plays under control.... even runs under control. He's a team first player who checks his ego with the equipment manager when he suits up. He is a "game manager". In other words RW is the temperamental polar opposite of JF.
Ego is the clincher I see that dooms JF and his team to "also ran" perpetuity.
I think the above addresses the "why isn't he Conf Champ good" question leaving one last question...
Why can't JF improve and become Conf Champ/ SB good?
The above ego comments may suffice, but to answer this I have to draw upon one more comparison.... one I have seldom seen, but feel is most apt.
Michael Vick (0 SB appearances; 0 SB wins)
Michael has a stronger arm, but otherwise I think they are a match. Speed, size, competitiveness and ego-driven game inflexibility are all there.
If I had $100,000 for every time Vick got dinged running around "being Michael Vick" followed by "if Michael Vick could only learn to be a pocket passer", then I'd have another million dollars... and host a Browns Board party in a Browns Suite.
But whenever coaches tried to reign in Michael, they took away what made Michael "electric". They made him "average".
The same will be true of JF.
You cannot make a near-great player great by eliminating the characteristic(s) that made him near-great.
A near-great career is all Manziel will ever have...
just like Michael Vick...
minus the whole dog thing...
hopefully...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Was going to make my case against JF in a new thread, but on an effort to preserve Z's sanity...or what's left of it... here goes...
Besides it'd just get merged anyway... like my Sal Pal thread did...
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29134&page=9&do=findComment&comment=404191
===========================================
Why Johnny Manziel must not be drafted.
The 2012/ 2013 Texas Aggie Edition of Johnny Manziel that thrilled millions of fans is as good as he will ever be.
So the first question is how good was he?
Was he Pro playoff good? Yes...
Was he Pro Conference Champ good? I don't think so... so I can not see a single SB appearance in a team's future with him at the helm.
So next question is why isn't he Conf Champ good? For this we have to look at QB comparisons...
Favre (2 SB appearances; 1 SB win)
There are a lot of valid elements to this popular comparison... running ability... gambling nature... guts... bailing out of pocket... poor judgment.. ego... However, the one element lacking that collapses the comparison is arm strength and without this critical element Manziel will consistently write Favre-like checks that his JF arm cannot cash.
Fran Tarkenton (3 SB appearances; 0 SB wins)
Sir Francis, as those of us at certain age know him, was a trailblazer in the art of scrambling. And he scrambled out of necessity. Tarkenton ran for his life behind some very porous lines in both MN and NY.
Fran almost exclusively ran to buy time to pass... to extend pass plays. He "ran" infrequently averaging just over 15 ypg for his career... his 18-year career. His rushing zenith was 376 yards on 62 carries in 12 games in 1966. Not coincidentally in '66 Fran missed the only two starts of his career outside of his rookie season. This in an era where there was open season on any QB, if you could catch them.
Fran ran 675 times in an 18-year pro career... JF ran 345 times in a two-year college career. Some of JF's runs were by staff/ game plan design, but many, many more were spawned by JF's lack of patience in the pocket.
And finally...
R. Wilson (1 SB appearance; 1 SB win)
I've seen this comparison in a few places and it bewilders me. Beyond size (including the now popular hand size), it's hard to find any valid elements here.
Wilson is a smart football player who plays under control.... even runs under control. He's a team first player who checks his ego with the equipment manager when he suits up. He is a "game manager". In other words RW is the temperamental polar opposite of JF.
Ego is the clincher I see that dooms JF and his team to "also ran" perpetuity.
I think the above addresses the "why isn't he Conf Champ good" question leaving one last question...
Why can't JF improve and become Conf Champ/ SB good?
The above ego comments may suffice, but to answer this I have to draw upon one more comparison.... one I have seldom seen, but feel is most apt.
Michael Vick (0 SB appearances; 0 SB wins)
Michael has a stronger arm, but otherwise I think they are a match. Speed, size, competitiveness and ego-driven game inflexibility are all there.
If I had $100,000 for every time Vick got dinged running around "being Michael Vick" followed by "if Michael Vick could only learn to be a pocket passer", then I'd have another million dollars... and host a Browns Board party in a Browns Suite.
But whenever coaches tried to reign in Michael, they took away what made Michael "electric". They made him "average".
The same will be true of JF.
You cannot make a near-great player great by eliminating the characteristic(s) that made him near-great.
A near-great career is all Manziel will ever have...
just like Michael Vick...
minus the whole dog thing...
hopefully...
Was going to make my case against JF in a new thread, but on an effort to preserve Z's sanity...or what's left of it... here goes...
Besides it'd just get merged anyway... like my Sal Pal thread did...
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29134&page=9&do=findComment&comment=404191
Thanks. We have three active Johnny Football threads which are comprised of 119 smaller Johnny Football threads.
I think he's the best QB in the draft, but I am starting to hope he goes to Pittsburgh since I have a head start on hating him from all the gushing.
Zombo
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Was going to make my case against JF in a new thread, but on an effort to preserve Z's sanity...or what's left of it... here goes...
Besides it'd just get merged anyway... like my Sal Pal thread did...
http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=29134&page=9&do=findComment&comment=404191
Thanks. We have three active Johnny Football threads which are comprised of 119 smaller Johnny Football threads.
I think he's the best QB in the draft, but I am starting to hope he goes to Pittsburgh since I have a head start on hating him from all the gushing.
Zombo
Zombo said:
Thanks. We have three active Johnny Football threads which are comprised of 119 smaller Johnny Football threads.
I think he's the best QB in the draft, but I am starting to hope he goes to Pittsburgh since I have a head start on hating him from all the gushing.
Zombo
doubt he goes to pittsburgh. ben said yesterday he doesn't think he could stay upright in this league.....
Ben Roethlisberger would choose Blake Bortles over Johnny ManzielSince nobody seems to know which about-to-be-drafted quarterback will go where and to whom, we might as well listen to Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger to get his thoughts on the matter.
Roethlisberger's take: he likes Johnny Manziel and Blake Bortles, but if he wanted a long-term franchise signal-caller, he'd probably go with the latter.
“I talked to Blake, and I know Blake has that fiery chip,” Roethlisberger said on 93.7 FM in Pittsburgh, via the Tribune Review. “I think he's going to be the best one of the group because I see something in him, his competitiveness, his leadership. And I think he's got a lot of upside.”
But that's not to say Roethlisberger doesn't think Manziel can find professional success. He even said Manziel could be a star early in his career. What Roethlisberger worries about, though, is the long-term viability of allowing Manziel to make plays outside of the pocket.
More from Roethlisberger:
“I was in the weight room the other day with Joey Porter, (and he was) asking me what I thought about Manziel. I looked at Joey and said, ‘Joey, do you think if you got a good hit on him, that he would be OK? And he said, ‘No, not at all.' And that's my question.
“You have guys like Joey Porter, who's a big guy, guys that are fast like Troy (Polamalu), Ike Taylor coming off the edge, Lawrence Timmons. You'd better be real athletic, get down or be big to absorb the pounding an NFL quarterback can take.
“I think he definitely has a lot of upside, but let's wait and see. The key I'll say every year when I get asked about RGIII (Robert Griffin III), Andrew Luck, or whoever it is, Cam Newton. It's not about your first year, it's about years two, three and four.
“Can you sustain it when defenses, like Coach (Dick) LeBeau and the defenses he coaches, when they figure you out, can you find a way to stay a step above them?"
It's a legitimate question from one of the most durable quarterbacks in the league. And Roethlisberger certainly isn't alone in wondering if this is Manziel's fatal flaw. Soon enough,we'll see if Jacksonville is one of those who have questions about it.
even though the guys a rapist he might no a little something about taking hits in the nfl.
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