Jonathan Paul Manziel
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@mike-h said:
The only people upset about the influx of Johnny/new Browns fans are the same people who were against picking him, and are hoping he fails. True Browns fans, they say... yep.
I'd rather have the bandwagoners (ESPN ranked CLE 32nd in their opening power rankings, so is it a bandwagon?) than the salty old douches who can't accept being wrong and will root against their own team just to feel good about their "analysis" and opinions.
Truly a sad day.
As you may know, I was not one of them. Recall that I said that I was not wedded to anyone, nor opposed to anyone. I am in favor of whomever wears the Brown and Orange.
As for the Browns being ranked 32d in the power rankings. Good. Let everybody else take this team lightly.
Everybody initially took Napolean lightly, and all he did was practically conquer the world.
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Hello all, this is my first post on this message board. As my username suggests, I'm an A&M grad that is the newest Browns fan after the Manziel pick. I grew up in Houston and the Oilers left town when I was around 10 years old, so I didn't follow the NFL much after that and got into A&M football. With Manziel heading to Cleveland, I now have an NFL team to follow. Really looking forward to it, and from what I can tell browsing some topics, this looks like a great forum.
I'm posting this topic because I'd like to talk about Manziel's passing ability, which is often overlooked and under-discussed. If someone didn't know who Johnny Manziel is, they'd watch ESPN (particularly that fake hair bumbling idiot Kiper) and assume Manziel is simply an athlete playing QB who can't throw, someone in the mold of Denard Robinson or Eric Crouch. But if you look at the stats, that couldn't be further from the truth. What's really remarkable about these stats is A&M had a top 10 strength of schedule each year in the most difficult conference in the country.
Here are Manziel's 2012 (RS freshman) passing stats, with the national rank in parentheses beside it.
Completion % - 68.0 (T-8th)
Yards - 3706 (T-15th)
Yards/att - 8.5 (T-12th)
TD - 26 (T-24)
INT - 9
TD/INT - 2.9
QB rating - 155.3 (15th)
His 2013 stats are even better.
Completion % - 69.9 (4th)
Yards - 4114 (8th)
Yards/att - 9.6 (4th)
TD - 34 (T-4)
INT - 13
TD/INT - 2.6
QB rating - 172.9 (3rd)
I've never seen or heard any of those numbers from any form of sports media. They all seem to feed off of each other and continue the mindless banter about how Manziel won't be able to run in the NFL, how he has a weak arm and can't make all the throws, etc. It's ridiclous. I'm not sure if any of y'all were able to watch his pro day workout, but it was incredibly impressive.
I understand why they focus on his running/scrambling ability. It's rare for a QB and he has created some incredible plays by doing just that. But to completely ignore the passing part of his game is an injustice to Johnny. I can see the casual fan not understanding how good of a passer he is, but for these experts, it's their job to mention that stuff.
I've watched every college snap from Manziel and he's one of the most talented football players I've ever seen. Fiercely competitive and hates to lose more than anything. I think y'all got a great one and I can't wait to see how he develops to prove the naysayers wrong.
Quoting a college QBs statistics is not necessarily that illustrative of that players ability to make is as a QB in the NFL.
I suggest that most of the most renowned QB busts in the past had outstanding college stats....Ryan Leaf, Jamarcus Russell et al.
Now, to me JFFs biggest asset is his chutzpah. It has to be given his frame. His innate football intellect goes hand in hand with that.
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@mike-h said:
The only people upset about the influx of Johnny/new Browns fans are the same people who were against picking him, and are hoping he fails. True Browns fans, they say... yep.
I'd rather have the bandwagoners (ESPN ranked CLE 32nd in their opening power rankings, so is it a bandwagon?) than the salty old douches who can't accept being wrong and will root against their own team just to feel good about their "analysis" and opinions.
Truly a sad day.
As you may know, I was not one of them. Recall that I said that I was not wedded to anyone, nor opposed to anyone. I am in favor of whomever wears the Brown and Orange.
As for the Browns being ranked 32d in the power rankings. Good. Let everybody else take this team lightly.
Everybody initially took Napolean lightly, and all he did was practically conquer the world.
As you may know, I was not one of them. Recall that I said that I was not wedded to anyone, nor opposed to anyone. I am in favor of whomever wears the Brown and Orange.
As for the Browns being ranked 32d in the power rankings. Good. Let everybody else take this team lightly.
Everybody initially took Napolean lightly, and all he did was practically conquer the world.
Pffft, Napoleon. Pussy.
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New England’s Manziel scouting report reportedly is leaked
Posted by Mike Florio on May 9, 2014, 7:46 PM EDT
The New England Patriots took a long look at some of the top quarterbacks in the 2014 draft. Regarding Johnny Manziel, they reportedly didn’t like what they saw very much.
BroBible.com claims that it has obtained the Patriots’ scouting report on Manziel, and the entire thing has been posted online.
It looks legitimate, and it expresses various worries about Manziel’s off-field habits, including a somewhat bizarre reference to “outlaw bloodlines.” The report also describes Manziel as a “spoiled brat” who gets an allowance from his grandfather and whose father bought him a luxury car.
From a football standpoint, Texas Tech sources told the Patriots that coaches “can’t yell/scream at him or he shuts down; has walked away from [former Texas A&M offensive coordinator Kliff] Kingsbury in the past,” and that Manziel doesn’t study the game.
If the report is legitimate (and if it’s counterfeit it’s an excellent job), the question becomes how it surfaced. It reportedly came from “an anonymous tipster, who is close to BroBible family,” a description that seems to be a bit inconsistent.
Within the NFL, speculation (and to be clear, it’s just speculation) has arisen that the leaking of the scouting report bears in some way, shape, or form the fingerprints of former Browns G.M. Mike Lombardi, who was fired by Cleveland and hired by New England. Lombardi’s motivation, if the speculation is accurate, would be to make the Browns look bad for taking Manziel.
It’s an obvious starting point for the Patriots and/or the NFL if/when this is investigated. It’s so obvious that we have a hard time believing Lombardi had anything to do with it.
The far better theory would be that someone within the Patriots organization who doesn’t like Lombardi leaked it simply to create a hassle for Lombardi, which this situation undoubtedly will.
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Old news, fake...
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This has already been posted.
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Report is real.
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I agree with you that good college stats do not always translate to NFL QB success. Virtually every QB ever drafted had good numbers in college. But that wasn't the point of my post. I was just trying to point out that Manziel's passing and stats are on par or better with the other QBs in the draft and are better than he gets credit for. For example, Manziel had superior passing stats in virtually every category compared to Bortles (completion %, yards, yds/att, TD/INT ratio, passer rating) but I doubt that was mentioned at all in any media outlet. All they focused on was "he can't run like that and take hits in the NFL" (which I agree with), but completely ignored his passing game.
People have commented on how his throwing has improved in 2013 to a good level. However, there are still problems with that side of his game relating to looking off open receivers and his capacity to operate within a structured playbook.
No college QB was ever drafted with crappy stats (except Tom Savage?). Check Colt McCoy's stats from college, they were pretty decent. Brandon Weeden threw for 4700 yards and 37 TDs to 13 INTs in his final year.
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I agree with you that good college stats do not always translate to NFL QB success. Virtually every QB ever drafted had good numbers in college. But that wasn't the point of my post. I was just trying to point out that Manziel's passing and stats are on par or better with the other QBs in the draft and are better than he gets credit for. For example, Manziel had superior passing stats in virtually every category compared to Bortles (completion %, yards, yds/att, TD/INT ratio, passer rating) but I doubt that was mentioned at all in any media outlet. All they focused on was "he can't run like that and take hits in the NFL" (which I agree with), but completely ignored his passing game.
I don't think he would have been considered a probably first round draft pick if all anyone focused on were his ability to "run around and be subject to hits". I think his ability's as a passer were a given, and not really questioned. It was the parts of his game that were in question that indeed were focused on....but I don't think for one moment that he passing ability was questioned....it just wasn't the sexy part of his story.
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You mean we should not call him Johnny Cum Lately?
(Actually, it would be very entertaining to have a player participate here...even anonymously)
I mean, one day he could even become as legendary as Zombo, or Ghoolie....or The Gipper thank you very much and others.
The real question would be what would he choose as his forum handle?
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Johnny came in and saved us after the lost decade of Aggie Football. Now he will fulfill his destiny of reviving another storied franchise that has lost its way. Get ready to say things about your team you haven't in years, because Johnny will improve the entire team, not just the QB position.
If you haven't yet, go and watch the replay of the Chick Fil A bowl from this year, and watch Johnny put an entire team on his back and come back from a record deficit.
The keymaster returns.
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Zombo said:
Brash has won before, brash will win again. I'm sure he's a guy the team can rally around. If he stays upright.
True, but brashness is not a trait JF and Wilson have in common... and that was my point.
So? Is he gonna get his wittle feelings hurt? Should I be scared? LMFAO.
Look, as a Browns fan, I do hope he proves me wrong cause he's gonna be (already is) a lot of distraction for a team that needs focus, not a circus. We've witnessed enough of a circus on the offensive side of the ball. What this team needs is a true leader, not a sideshow. Whether your man crush can be that, IMO, remains to be seen. I will do no bootlicking until the kid proves it on the pro level. Everything he did in college is irrelevant now. I don't like the pick. I won't apologize for that, but I am more than willing to eat crow if he should succeed.
Pretty good stuff for a noob...
Highlights are going to be the bulk of this kind of play so unless all you doubters have watched the hundreds and hundreds hours of film then you just don't know.
There's hundreds and hundreds of hours of Manziel footage?
26 college @ 3 hr/ea = 78
30 HS varsity @ 2/ea = 60
8 HS JV @ 1.5hr/ea = 12
16 Jr HS @ 1 hr/ ea = 16
40 Pop Warner @ 1/ea = 40
TotalPossibleFootage =206... by God... you are kinda correct!
Browns announced that they would not be allowing the national media to attend rookie mini camp this weekend. Said they want the focus to be on all the rookies and they want Manziel to be focused on football. Said they don't want to have a Tebow Mania situation.
Brilliant move by the FO. All the publicity with less distraction.
It's much easier to teach a game changer to dial it down than it is to teach a one dimensional QB to dial it up.
The it factor is a real thing. When's the last time a Browns QB trotted onto the field when we were down and you thought "He's got this." For me, it was Brian Hoyer against Minnesota. Before that...I couldn't tell you.
1. Who is on that "dial down" list? Steve Young? Seriously, I have trouble coming up with names that I do not immediately cross off because either they never really dialed it down or were diminished when they did, e.g., Favre and Vick.
2. Even I did not feel it with Hoyer when he trotted on against the Vikes... but it did not take more than a couple passes to see "it".
While I was certainly hopeful for Bernie, my one real "it" QB experience was Brian the 1st, Sipe, when he went in for Phipps in his first Pre-season game. Had you been around, I'm pretty sure you would have, too.
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Again....you seem to think I hate the kid. Hence my comment. Youre inability to decipher written word is amazing for a so called journalist.
Howdy y'all,
Howdy back and we'll talk again when you're a Browns fan for real.
@mike-h said:
The only people upset about the influx of Johnny/new Browns fans are the same people who were against picking him, and are hoping he fails. True Browns fans, they say... yep.
I'd rather have the bandwagoners (ESPN ranked CLE 32nd in their opening power rankings, so is it a bandwagon?) than the salty old douches who can't accept being wrong and will root against their own team just to feel good about their "analysis" and opinions.
Truly a sad day.
So dense... so diluded...
Nothing has been proven except your inexhaustible ability to cling to your fanciful, empty narrative...
No one will root against us simply to be right about JM, least of all me...
If he turns out to be the guy, I'll gladly admit being wrong.
If he turns out not to be, you will say "I always preferred Teddy B"... because you did... for months...
Now post your little JF gif again since you have nothing else to add to the conversation...
Again....you seem to think I hate the kid. Hence my comment. Youre inability to decipher written word is amazing for a so called journalist.
It is amazing isn't it?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Johnny came in and saved us after the lost decade of Aggie Football. Now he will fulfill his destiny of reviving another storied franchise that has lost its way. Get ready to say things about your team you haven't in years, because Johnny will improve the entire team, not just the QB position.
If you haven't yet, go and watch the replay of the Chick Fil A bowl from this year, and watch Johnny put an entire team on his back and come back from a record deficit.
I thought Ryan Tannehill did that. I mean, hell, he was an A&M Qb drafted a lot higher than JFF, no?
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Tannehill was decent. Unfortunately, under Sherman all he ever did was throw a 12 yard hitch. Went 6-6 in his final year when we were preseason top 5, routinely gave up double digit leads in the 2nd half. He's a great kid and a good QB. He can't hold Johnny's jock.
OK then. Good to know.
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I agree with a LOT of this article. Why is the organization trying so hard to downplay Johnny, while every other team is talking up their 1st round pick as the 2nd coming?
http://www.bettingsports.com/browns-continue-to-be-really-weird-about-johnny-manziel/
Hate to shout but it's BECAUSE THE BROWNS FRONT OFFICE AND COACHING STAFF WANTS TO GIVE THE MANZIEL FANYBOYS A REALITY CHECK, AND TAKE THEIR EXPECTATIONS DOWN A NOTCH. JF ISN'T PASSING FOR 4,000 YARDS, 30 TDS AND TAKE THE BROWNS TO THE SUPER BOWL THIS YEAR.
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@mike-h said:
I don't come here for validation...
You rehash others' opinions and work, and then argue as if it's your own. Is never confuse you + original.
And I never confuse you and clever...
As for your validation claim... it's laughable. I know this because of all the absurd statements you make to belittle those who have the audacity of arguing opinions that are different with yours. Branding Manziel skeptics "haters" recently being your most oft used. Confident folks don't resort to tactics like that.
As for my alledged plagiarism, if you ever do have the time in your busy schedule to substantiate that flight of fantasy, please post it. Till then just know that repeating your lie makes it no more true.
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@mike-h said:
And I'm not sure what exactly it is you're doing continuing to obsess over me, my last post wasn't directed at you (but it obviously must fit if you found it necessary to reply
), but I'd recommend finding a new hobby or maybe a support group.(Above edited in while I was replying to rest of your post.)
I chimed in because you expanded your scope to attacking choco...
who had called you on your BS towards me a couple pages back.
And he was not even a JM detractor... lol...
But you did not know that because you "can't read everything here"...
yet come here "to learn"...
yet...
it's mind boggling...
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Howdy y'all,
Howdy back and we'll talk again when you're a Browns fan for real.
@mike-h said:
The only people upset about the influx of Johnny/new Browns fans are the same people who were against picking him, and are hoping he fails. True Browns fans, they say... yep.
I'd rather have the bandwagoners (ESPN ranked CLE 32nd in their opening power rankings, so is it a bandwagon?) than the salty old douches who can't accept being wrong and will root against their own team just to feel good about their "analysis" and opinions.
Truly a sad day.
So dense... so diluded...
Nothing has been proven except your inexhaustible ability to cling to your fanciful, empty narrative...
No one will root against us simply to be right about JM, least of all me...
If he turns out to be the guy, I'll gladly admit being wrong.
If he turns out not to be, you will say "I always preferred Teddy B"... because you did... for months...
Now post your little JF gif again since you have nothing else to add to the conversation...
Again....you seem to think I hate the kid. Hence my comment. Youre inability to decipher written word is amazing for a so called journalist.
It is amazing isn't it?
Howdy back and we'll talk again when you're a Browns fan for real.
So dense... so diluded...
Nothing has been proven except your inexhaustible ability to cling to your fanciful, empty narrative...
No one will root against us simply to be right about JM, least of all me...
If he turns out to be the guy, I'll gladly admit being wrong.
If he turns out not to be, you will say "I always preferred Teddy B"... because you did... for months...
Now post your little JF gif again since you have nothing else to add to the conversation...
It is amazing isn't it?
I don't think anyone here will root against the Browns just to see Manziel fail, but there are a certain select few who have made their stance clear on the Manziel front and refuse to acknowledge his strengths. These are the few that I believe Mike is referencing, and these are probably the same guys who will be the first to say "we won IN SPITE of Manziel" whenever they get the opportunity.
That's the difference I see between Manziel supporters and detractors. The supporters, for the most part, are just as quick to point out Manziel's flaws as they are his strengths. They (if they're like me) find the flaws to be true claims, but not necessarily valid. The detractors see no good in Manziel and take every opportunity to attribute something ridiculous to one of his flaws, even if there's no correlation.
I don't deny that Manziel is a shitty jackass off the field. I don't deny that he looks like a weaselly asshole and he probably would warrant a punch in the dick. I don't deny that it scares me how much he runs around. I don't deny that he's (slightly) undersized. He's all of those things.
But he's also a natural passer and not just a thrower, something the detractors don't like to mention. He's a clutch player, something that the detractors like to attribute to Mike Evans although he was only responsible for 12 of Manziel's 52 third (or fourth) down conversions. Honestly, if those were the only two assets he possessed, I'd still be happy with the pick. Cleveland hasn't seen a natural clutch passer in years.
However, Manziel also possesses the "it" factor, whatever "it" may be. As I stated in a previous post, there have been very few times that a Browns QB has trotted onto the field in a save situation and I thought to myself "he's got this." I can honestly say that I only recall experiencing that feeling twice- once against Minnesota with Hoyer and once against New Orleans with Colt McCoy ( a game where he really didn't even do anything).
I think it was pretty obvious that I preferred Bortles over the rest of the crop but I am happy that we at least landed Manziel, because I can see his value as it pertains to Shanahan's offensive system. If Manziel fails, yes...I will say that I did prefer Bortles. I will always say that I preferred Bortles. But we didn't get the opportunity to take Bortles.
(For another time- I believe that we may have actually targeted Bortles at #4, but when Jacksonville took him, we took the first trade call we could and went with Plan B. I do not believe that the Buffalo trade was our plan all along.)
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride
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