Jonathan Paul Manziel
-
People can't seem to get it through their heads that this is a new FO with many new players. There's no reason to think the Browns will suck again based on past events by people who are no longer around. The worst decisions of the past personnel have been taken care of.
However that being said, talk is cheap, prove it on the field.
As for the constant changes, well the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
And since when have the Browns done the worst job drafting and performing for the past 40 years? Besides that's the magic number in the stories of the Bible, so I guess it's time for it to come to an end.
-
People can't seem to get it through their heads that this is a new FO with many new players. There's no reason to think the Browns will suck again based on past events by people who are no longer around. The worst decisions of the past personnel have been taken care of.
However that being said, talk is cheap, prove it on the field.
As for the constant changes, well the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
And since when have the Browns done the worst job drafting and performing for the past 40 years? Besides that's the magic number in the stories of the Bible, so I guess it's time for it to come to an end.
Lovingly Gay said:
People can't seem to get it through their heads that this is a new FO with many new players. There's no reason to think the Browns will suck again based on past events by people who are no longer around. The worst decisions of the past personnel have been taken care of. True.....but there is also no reason to believe that a group of people with zero experience will succeed.
Then I guess we are at a draw until we see how this season unfolds. But you can't expect a trip right to the SB first year out with new people either. Haslam was misdirected and on a learning curve his first time out as a sole NFL owner. He quickly uprighted the ship before it sunk, IMO. I don't expect non-Browns fans to see a difference in the changes, but you can be certain Browns fans feel the difference this time. Again, not expecting super-stardom right out of the gates.
However that being said, talk is cheap, prove it on the field. Exactly
As for the constant changes, well the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
And since when have the Browns done the worst job drafting and performing for the past 40 years? Besides that's the magic number in the stories of the Bible, so I guess it's time for it to come to an end. Since the 1970 merger, which is just a point of reference no more no less, the Browns have the worst record and have drafted the highest (they might be second worst). Certainly true for the last 15 years.
Ok then. I'll accept a statement of the past 15 years (even if it might not be completely accurate, but you even admitted maybe second worst), but not 40 years as that's just wrong.
-
i want johnny football because i want to see our qb taunt the opponent, make the money sign in ben rothelisburgers face and take a shit on andy daltons head
Sorry... can't edit the quotes so they separate... Microsoft strikes again...
i want johnny football because i want to see our qb taunt the opponent, make the money sign in ben rothelisburgers face and take a shit on andy daltons head
Because that's what it takes to win division games?@everlastingxxx said:
I think there is a serious lack of talent on the Browns offense. Its not just a QB problem. The good thing is you dont need need many points with the Browns D. A guy like Manziel can get you that last game winning drive.
Your whole premise screams for a game manager at QB... and that ain't JM...its baffling to me that hoyer automatically gets the job. He played decent in those 3 games, not amazing. 3 games should never solidify a starting spot. They should let the quarterbacks compete. Hoyers resume is nothing special so far in his career, if he beats out manziel by looking better than him im ok with that. But to tell johnny to act like a backup is bad. All backups should be preparing like they are starters.
[/quote/]
Hoyer has not "automatically gotten the job". He is simply the current #1 QB on the depth chart. Pattine has said the starting job will be a competition. Also said Manziel was "inconsistent" at yesterday's OTA and that was understandable because the system is so new to him. Farmer said that at this point Hoyer is far ahead.
"... Farmer said on Bull & Fox that Hoyer is the better quarterback 'by a substantial margin'."
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/21/ray-farmer-hoyer-is-better-than-manziel-by-a-substantial-margin/
But that's as of now... long time till Sept.Tough Division? If you have been watching TV, national commentators no longer consider the AFCN a "tough" division.
Ravens and Steelers are considered mediocre or below. There is really not much respect for the Bengals even though they are defending division champs. The Browns seem to be the most interesting and exciting team, with as much talent as any other, but haven't learned how to win.
Yup... Most early Vegas lines and many other sources project the AFCN as a whole to be mediocre with our "champion" winning 9 games and the other 3 teams at 8-8 or 7-9.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Sorry... can't edit the quotes so they separate... Microsoft strikes again...
i want johnny football because i want to see our qb taunt the opponent, make the money sign in ben rothelisburgers face and take a shit on andy daltons head
Because that's what it takes to win division games?@everlastingxxx said:
I think there is a serious lack of talent on the Browns offense. Its not just a QB problem. The good thing is you dont need need many points with the Browns D. A guy like Manziel can get you that last game winning drive.
Your whole premise screams for a game manager at QB... and that ain't JM...its baffling to me that hoyer automatically gets the job. He played decent in those 3 games, not amazing. 3 games should never solidify a starting spot. They should let the quarterbacks compete. Hoyers resume is nothing special so far in his career, if he beats out manziel by looking better than him im ok with that. But to tell johnny to act like a backup is bad. All backups should be preparing like they are starters.
[/quote/]
Hoyer has not "automatically gotten the job". He is simply the current #1 QB on the depth chart. Pattine has said the starting job will be a competition. Also said Manziel was "inconsistent" at yesterday's OTA and that was understandable because the system is so new to him. Farmer said that at this point Hoyer is far ahead.
"... Farmer said on Bull & Fox that Hoyer is the better quarterback 'by a substantial margin'."
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/05/21/ray-farmer-hoyer-is-better-than-manziel-by-a-substantial-margin/
But that's as of now... long time till Sept.Tough Division? If you have been watching TV, national commentators no longer consider the AFCN a "tough" division.
Ravens and Steelers are considered mediocre or below. There is really not much respect for the Bengals even though they are defending division champs. The Browns seem to be the most interesting and exciting team, with as much talent as any other, but haven't learned how to win.
Yup... Most early Vegas lines and many other sources project the AFCN as a whole to be mediocre with our "champion" winning 9 games and the other 3 teams at 8-8 or 7-9.
Sorry... can't edit the quotes so they separate... Microsoft strikes again...
You can't multiquote the responses?
I'm awesome, and I fuck dolphins. Ghoolie 12/2/2012: I have absolutely no skills, training or pride -
Boy, this thread is one big Cluster Fock. The chain of events that's happening is very very concerning. It is not the type of start you see for a QB that's going to be a star in this league.
Let's examine this.
1) Manziel was bypassed by the Browns twice.
2) A projected top 10 pick that went into a complete free fall. If it wasn't for Cleveland, god knows where he would had ended up.
3) Report is, Bridgewater was on the name of the card for the 22nd pick but only changed in the last second because of a Manziel 'WRECK THE LEAGUE TEXT'.
4) After getting drafted, Haslem comes out and say Manziel will be a backup and have to understand that Cleveland is a "HARDWORKING" town. Cleveland is NOT Hollywood. It certainly seems like Cleveland's biggest concern is Manziel's lacks hardwork and loves only the spotlight.
5) To confirm the lack of hardwork, a NE Patriots scouting report leaked shortly after the draft indicating Manziel lacks strong work ethic and is a party animal. He's also have issues in the locker room.
6) Starts off OTA the 3rd on the QB depth chart and have not practiced with the 1st string offense yet.
7) Today, Farmer indicates that Hoyer is FAR BETTER as a QB than Manziel.
You have be Manziel's jock to see there's no concerns here. This is NOT a good START to a bright NFL career.
-
Or maybe Gordon isnt the whole fucking team.
WSS
-
Masterdog-you have taken a few facts and spun them the way you want it to be seen. You have no idea how hard Johnny worked AFTER the Heisman to develop himself into a pocket passer. That paid off by having the highest completion rate in the country FROM THE POCKET in 2013. When he went to California to work with a QB coach he did two very important things. First he made it clear he wanted to become an NFL level QB who passed from the pocket first and then did his thing on the run second. The second thing he did is tell that coach that he would not enter the NFL draft until that coach told him he was ready to make the next step. Both of those goals were accomplished. I guarantee he has now set new goals for himself and has shared those with his new coaching staff. They in return have shared their expectations and will help him reach those mutually agreed upon goals before they throw him to the wolves.
In line with this I saw a live interview this morning with the HC in which he said, "I will not let our QB selection be decided by T-shirt sales." He will play Johnny in games only when he shows he is ready and is superior to any other QB on the roster. He also made it clear one week is not enough to decide anything.
PS-I must have missed it. When exactly did Farmer become the head coach?
-
Masterdog-you have taken a few facts and spun them the way you want it to be seen. You have no idea how hard Johnny worked AFTER the Heisman to develop himself into a pocket passer. That paid off by having the highest completion rate in the country FROM THE POCKET in 2013. When he went to California to work with a QB coach he did two very important things. First he made it clear he wanted to become an NFL level QB who passed from the pocket first and then did his thing on the run second. The second thing he did is tell that coach that he would not enter the NFL draft until that coach told him he was ready to make the next step. Both of those goals were accomplished. I guarantee he has now set new goals for himself and has shared those with his new coaching staff. They in return have shared their expectations and will help him reach those mutually agreed upon goals before they throw him to the wolves.
In line with this I saw a live interview this morning with the HC in which he said, "I will not let our QB selection be decided by T-shirt sales." He will play Johnny in games only when he shows he is ready and is superior to any other QB on the roster. He also made it clear one week is not enough to decide anything.
PS-I must have missed it. When exactly did Farmer become the head coach?
Exactly Petine
Masterdog-you have taken a few facts and spun them the way you want it to be seen. You have no idea how hard Johnny worked AFTER the Heisman to develop himself into a pocket passer. That paid off by having the highest completion rate in the country FROM THE POCKET in 2013. When he went to California to work with a QB coach he did two very important things. First he made it clear he wanted to become an NFL level QB who passed from the pocket first and then did his thing on the run second. The second thing he did is tell that coach that he would not enter the NFL draft until that coach told him he was ready to make the next step. Both of those goals were accomplished. I guarantee he has now set new goals for himself and has shared those with his new coaching staff. They in return have shared their expectations and will help him reach those mutually agreed upon goals before they throw him to the wolves.
In line with this I saw a live interview this morning with the HC in which he said, "I will not let our QB selection be decided by T-shirt sales." He will play Johnny in games only when he shows he is ready and is superior to any other QB on the roster. He also made it clear one week is not enough to decide anything.
PS-I must have missed it. When exactly did Farmer become the head coach?
Exactly. They are trying to send smoke screens as usual about who will start, etc. They are well aware of the media circus surrounding Johnny Football and they will play it to their advantage.
-
You can't multiquote the responses?
I did... for some reason (IE update and/or site software update) just started blending them all together. I can edit to separate them, but when I post, they merge again...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
You can't multiquote the responses?
I did... for some reason (IE update and/or site software update) just started blending them all together. I can edit to separate them, but when I post, they merge again...
-
@douche-nozzle said:
Do yourself a favor and read the SI article about the draft. The experts were very iffy on Johnny and there is a reason he was still available at 22, just like Quinn and Weeden were. And when Cleveland drafted them, they thought they got a steal then too!
There isn't a draft pick ever made that wasn't a risk. #1 overall picks the likes of Jamarcus Russell are a prone to "bustage" as any other position. Or you can have a street FA become a Hall of Famer.
Just because Weeden and Quinn were busts doesn't mean JFF will be. Of course it doesn't mean he won't.
-
Masterdog-you have taken a few facts and spun them the way you want it to be seen. You have no idea how hard Johnny worked AFTER the Heisman to develop himself into a pocket passer. That paid off by having the highest completion rate in the country FROM THE POCKET in 2013. When he went to California to work with a QB coach he did two very important things. First he made it clear he wanted to become an NFL level QB who passed from the pocket first and then did his thing on the run second. The second thing he did is tell that coach that he would not enter the NFL draft until that coach told him he was ready to make the next step. Both of those goals were accomplished. I guarantee he has now set new goals for himself and has shared those with his new coaching staff. They in return have shared their expectations and will help him reach those mutually agreed upon goals before they throw him to the wolves.
In line with this I saw a live interview this morning with the HC in which he said, "I will not let our QB selection be decided by T-shirt sales." He will play Johnny in games only when he shows he is ready and is superior to any other QB on the roster. He also made it clear one week is not enough to decide anything.
PS-I must have missed it. When exactly did Farmer become the head coach?
Well... perhaps the multi-quote glitch is gone...
@douche-nozzle said:
Maybe the Browns finally have a front office? Maybe they intend to knock the Johnny Football out of Johnny Manziel and see what he really has? Maybe this front office knew about Gordon but decided to build a team beyond THIS YEAR? I for one am very interested to see if the Browns might finally have a front office. I'm also interested to see how many Browns fans organize a mass suicide because building for the future is unacceptable in Cleveland
Our FO has stated that the Gordon news had zero impact on the draft plan. Certainly in part because Gordon's future is up in the air and in part because they new they could rent WRs for a year, if need be.
As for our FOs... excepting the panic-stricken, Wheezy/TR fiasco that was Holmgren's dying breath, we haven't been doing too badly player-wise. And now, although I admit the jury is still out, I think it is pretty clear our FO is even better.
PS-I must have missed it. When exactly did Farmer become the head coach?
As you well know he is not. What is Farmer? Our talent-evaluator-in-chief... Seen any sign that our HC disagrees at this point?
To expect anything other than JM being no higher than #2 on the depth chart at this point is ludicrous.
-
And since when have the Browns done the worst job drafting and performing for the past 40 years? Besides that's the magic number in the stories of the Bible, so I guess it's time for it to come to an end. Since the 1970 merger, which is just a point of reference no more no less, the Browns have the worst record and have drafted the highest (they might be second worst). Certainly true for the last 15 years.
Well, see, this is where your ignorance an hubris comes in. The Browns by no means have the worst record, nor have they probably had any greater ratio of busts with their drafts than many many other teams.
Even in the last 15 year teams like the Raiders, Jags, Lions have worse records.
I am sure I could come in with statistics blowing your generalizations out of the water, but I have determined that countering ignorant generalizations is not worth my time.
-
It's not really wrong if you are willing to accept the truth. Of the teams in the league at the time of the merger, only the Lions have a worse record, and the Browns have clearly been the worst (and the highest drafting) in the last 15 years. P.S. Note the team with the best record since the merger
you don't amass the best record over a 44 year period by luck.Odd that you cannot read your own link. Browns record is only 5th worse, not 2d worse. And, yes, most of that bad era has been since 1999.
-
@douche-nozzle said:
You are such a dipstick! It's funny how you agree with pundits when they say what you want to hear and call them idiots the other 95% of the time.
I don't know about that. I know that you are an idiot 95% of the time.
I also know the facts: The AFCN has not really been that tough of a division the last couple of years.
The Ravens got on a hot streak to win the SB in 2012, but their regular season record of 10-6 was the worst record of the 8 division winners, tied with Washington. Cinci made it as a wild card team.....but that is because there wasn't much of a challenge.
In 2013 it was worse. In fact, here are the W-L record for each division last year:
NFCW 42-22
AFCW 37-27
AFCE 34-30
NFCS 31-33
AFCN 31-33
NFCN 28-34-2
NFCE 28-36
AFCS 24-40
So, the AFCN was mediocre. Just like I said it was.
-
@douche-nozzle said:
Maybe the Browns finally have a front office? Maybe they intend to knock the Johnny Football out of Johnny Manziel and see what he really has? Maybe this front office knew about Gordon but decided to build a team beyond THIS YEAR? I for one am very interested to see if the Browns might finally have a front office. I'm also interested to see how many Browns fans organize a mass suicide because building for the future is unacceptable in Cleveland
So, what makes you think that anyone gives a shit what you are interested in.
Turn the tables, What are we interested in: Well, we see that you make a fool of yourself. But that is more of an observation than interest. Beyond that? nothing really.
-
@douche-nozzle said:
This represents exactly what I mean about most Browns fans, once the facts are put on the table, they stop talking. Maybe tml1138 had to go but what about the rest of you chest-thumpers?
Except, of course, as is natural for a Steeler fan, you misrepresented the facts even as you were giving them.
-
Well... perhaps the multi-quote glitch is gone...
@douche-nozzle said:
Maybe the Browns finally have a front office? Maybe they intend to knock the Johnny Football out of Johnny Manziel and see what he really has? Maybe this front office knew about Gordon but decided to build a team beyond THIS YEAR? I for one am very interested to see if the Browns might finally have a front office. I'm also interested to see how many Browns fans organize a mass suicide because building for the future is unacceptable in Cleveland
Our FO has stated that the Gordon news had zero impact on the draft plan. Certainly in part because Gordon's future is up in the air and in part because they new they could rent WRs for a year, if need be.
As for our FOs... excepting the panic-stricken, Wheezy/TR fiasco that was Holmgren's dying breath, we haven't been doing too badly player-wise. And now, although I admit the jury is still out, I think it is pretty clear our FO is even better.
PS-I must have missed it. When exactly did Farmer become the head coach?
As you well know he is not. What is Farmer? Our talent-evaluator-in-chief... Seen any sign that our HC disagrees at this point?
To expect anything other than JM being no higher than #2 on the depth chart at this point is ludicrous.
To expect anything other than JM being no higher than #2 on the depth chart at this point is ludicrous.
I think I made it pretty clear I am in line with HC Pettine's thinking: "He also made it clear one week is not enough to decide anything." When it comes to actually running a team after draft day I only listen to him. It's his baby now, not the owners or anyone in management. So what they say means nothing to me.
-
@douche-nozzle said:
As with your previous post and most others you spin up, you are imagining your circumstances without really reading. I will type this slowly for you. Are you ready?
Of the teams in the league at the time of the merger, only the Lions have a worse record.
OK, fine, I didn't belabor reading over your drivel....though I am not sure why you should limit that to just those teams in existance as of the date of the merger.
But...even then, you are still a douchnozzle and wrong and still failed to read your own link.
Last time I looked, the Cardinals were a team in existance at that time as well as the Browns and Lions.
So, you were double dumbass wrong.
P.S. Douchebag..... you don't amass the second worst record over 44 years in the last 14 years. It's been a long, bad, 44 year ride with one 4 year period where they looked up over the toilet seat and then plunged right back to the bottom of the outhouse.
Prove it. Do a complete record search of what they were between 1970 to 1995. I suggest they had over a .500 record for those years.
-
@douche-nozzle said:
I showed you a link and you didn't like it but I would challenge you to prove where that link is wrong. You are such a huge windbag, you make shit up all the time, you lie, you act like an attorney for Christ sake. But hey, you like yourself and that's all that counts
Jesus Christ you're boring...
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login