Jonathan Paul Manziel
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I had to sign up just for this thread.
I love Hoyer. Great guy. Been around Tom Brady which has to be pretty good for a career.
However the guy has started 4 games in his career. In 2 of them he wasn't that great, he was really good in a 3rd and in the 4th he tore his ACL after throwing 4 passes. His career numbers indicate he's not overly accurate (under 60% for career) and in case nobody noticed, Gordon and Cameron had pretty good seasons without him. Anyone ever think that they made Hoyer look a bit better than Hoyer made them look?
There is no real indication that Hoyer is a great, or even really good Quarterback, but he is discussed on here as if its Brett Favre holding off Aaron Rodgers. It is not that situation.
Now I do believe there is a contest to see who starts Week 1, but the job is Johnny Manziels. Thats why they took him. Hoyer is a placeholder no matter how you look at it or how long it takes. Whenever Johnny is ready, he's the QB and there's nothing Hoyer can really do about it aside from winning every game, and I don't think he's the level QB that is able to do that.
DING DING DING.
You guys want a guy who's greatest accomplishment in 9 years is big 10 honorable mention. That's literally the only major individual success he has had. in 9 years.
forget johnny, hoyer isn't the guy.
my god, he was released twice, not traded, released.
he should be good at practice, THAT'S ALL HE DOES
he's spent a decade in which he was a starter for 2 years and (?) 20 stars. Johnny is actually the most experienced one of the two. well, not in nfl clipboard holding. but on the big stage? absolutely.
hoyer isn't it. he hasn't' played much football in the last 5 years.
hes coming off of a torn ACL
at best hes a bus driver and you don't have a bus driver team
so, there's my points. you're investing in a JAG.
manziel is your only chance at winning the super bowl. not saying its a great chance but it is the only chance. hes the only one that is unknown. he won the Heisman as a freshman and had the two most offensive productive seasons ever in the SEC. I know you guys hate that. but it's true. he hit the ground running in college. can he do that in the NFL? I don't know. and you don't know. but NO ONE has ever done the things he has. no one; so you don't know.
you know Hoyer can hold a clipboard; let him.
again:
9 years = big 10 honorable
mention.you can hate johnny, but wanting hoyer is striving for 8-8
DING DING DING.
You guys want a guy who's greatest accomplishment in 9 years is big 10 honorable mention. That's literally the only major individual success he has had. in 9 years.
forget johnny, hoyer isn't the guy.
my god, he was released twice, not traded, released.
he should be good at practice, THAT'S ALL HE DOES
he's spent a decade in which he was a starter for 2 years and (?) 20 stars. Johnny is actually the most experienced one of the two. well, not in nfl clipboard holding. but on the big stage? absolutely.
hoyer isn't it. he hasn't' played much football in the last 5 years.
hes coming off of a torn ACL
at best hes a bus driver and you don't have a bus driver team
so, there's my points. you're investing in a JAG.
manziel is your only chance at winning the super bowl. not saying its a great chance but it is the only chance. hes the only one that is unknown. he won the Heisman as a freshman and had the two most offensive productive seasons ever in the SEC. I know you guys hate that. but it's true. he hit the ground running in college. can he do that in the NFL? I don't know. and you don't know. but NO ONE has ever done the things he has. no one; so you don't know.
you know Hoyer can hold a clipboard; let him.
again:
9 years = big 10 honorable
mention.you can hate johnny, but wanting hoyer is striving for 8-8
I think wanting the best quarterback is the right way to look at it, no matter what the fuck the name is on the back of the jersey.
I don't give a fuck what either of them have done until this point. None of it matters. What matters is outperforming the other and earning the job. That's it.
Trying to use college careers to compare two players is downright stupid.
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Fair enough, but a little voice inside my head keeps saying- Kurt Warner, Kurt Warner.
And that in turn is also fair enough, but the sample size is so small that almost no conclusions can be made. I've seen TJ Yates look like Kurt Warner for 2 games, its a common phenomenon.
I hope beyond hope Hoyer is the next Kurt Warner but if you're playing the odds...there's been a thousand QBs with similar starts to their career but only one turned into Kurt Warner.
I just question how much Hoyer love around here is really because people think hes a GREAT quarterback and how much is just disguised Manziel dislike.
And that in turn is also fair enough, but the sample size is so small that almost no conclusions can be made. I've seen TJ Yates look like Kurt Warner for 2 games, its a common phenomenon.
I hope beyond hope Hoyer is the next Kurt Warner but if you're playing the odds...there's been a thousand QBs with similar starts to their career but only one turned into Kurt Warner.
I just question how much Hoyer love around here is really because people think hes a GREAT quarterback and how much is just disguised Manziel dislike.
No one is saying Hoyer is a GREAT qb (yet). Some of us liked what we saw in the small sample size.
Some would say I know a bit, yes. Some would say I am born into caring quite a bit, yes.
Manziels behavior is not unusual, it's just public.
Joe Montana had a problem early in his career, he's discussed it. Marino too. What do you think Bernie was like in the 80's (and today). Tom Brady dated a actress with a former drug issue, had a kid with her while dating a Brazilian Supermodel. What do you think Tom Bradys younger days were like? The only difference is they weren't public, they didn't have to deal with instagram or even ESPN creating news.
People who think what Manziel does is somehow way over board are extremely naive. The attention he gets is what is rare and unusual, but that has zero to do with if he's a good quarterback or not.
Manziel's behavior is public because he wants it to be public. As I pointed out before there's celebrities with higher profiles than JF who mange to keep their private life private.
Zeier, Quinn, Couch and McCoy are all quarterbacks that had a decent couple of games and then the Browns fans declared them the one. Just like Hoyer.
And you're right Manziel hasn't done anything on the NFL field yet, so I can't say he's good, yet somehow plenty around here have somehow already determined he is not very good even though he's yet to play in the NFL.
I don't care about the selfies. Why do I care. What difference does it make? He has an instigram account just like 95% of all 21 year old Americans do. He puts pictures of his life on it, just like them. Its what young people do.
Nothing Manziel has done since being drafted is ANY different than what he did his 3 years at TAMU, and it didn't seem to be a problem for him there as he tore apart the SEC.
No one has determined Manziel to be "not very good"- as an NFL quarterback. It has been determined he's currently stupidly indiscreet when using social media- or he just plain doesn't give a f**k. YOU may not care about the selfies, but I hate to tell you Jimmy Haslam- who writes JFF's paychecks DOES. I'll admit- I was leading the charge for the Browns to not draft Manziel- primarily for this exact reason- "you draft Manziel, you bring the circus to town along with him". I didn't exactly have to be Nostradamus to figure that one out. But there are other reasons- if there were no holes in Johnny's game (or character) he wouldn't have lasted until #22- and you can take that one to the bank.
Anyone who likes Manziel is now marginalized to be some sort of "fan boy" or nitwit cliche tagline.
Manziel is the reason we are finally getting National Attention and leading the NFL in jersey sales.
Here's the deal, if Johnny Flops we will all look like assholes and rightfully so.
If he turns heads, all the haters are going to look like dickless lunatics when they come crawling back on their knees
WW, I hope you've noticed- none of us are haters of Johnny the football player. Johnny the social media doofus? Figure it out.
I dunno seems to be plenty on here that are pretty positive that Manziel is a bust....
Bust- or flawless walks on water? Yeah- I've seen plenty of Heisman winners bust- want me to start naming them?
Unproven rookie with quirky game that may or may not translate to the Pro level. Accuracy drops off when forced to roll left. Reckless running style that makes him an injury risk. Questions about off-field antics. That's the scouts and former NFL HCs opinion- not mine. I'm not wearing rose colored glasses with either Hoyer or Manziel- but the JF homers need to take them off. I'm old enough to realize studliness in college doesn't always translate to the pros. FYI I'm an Ohio State homer- and I thought Dan Wilkinson was going to be the second coming of Bruce Smith in the pros- didn't quite work out that way.
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@mike-h said:
You're pretty close to objective. Like you said, there are a few dickless old men who hated the Manziel pick, and they will continue to prop up a mediocre QB while hiding behind Browns fandom to hide their hurt egos.
Manziel was the guy they said wasn't a first round pick,and the guy the Browns wouldn't pick.
They think they actually understand football. Throwing shit on their monitors would be equally as productive as the thousands of misinformed and useless posts they flood this place with.
If you want thr link to a good Browns forum, hit me up Stockton.
Congrats on having the Browns interest in Johnny Football right Mike. It was dumb luck- or having a crystal ball- that Farmer was able to get him at #22- after he passed on him- twice. Not exactly a solid vote of confidence.
BTW, why don't you take your condescending posting along with Stockton? We've had the rare visitors here who would make you look like a dumb shit Mike. I'll save you the trouble if you think we're too fucking stupid to comprehend your incredible football wisdom.
I hated the Manziel pick primarily because of the off field antics- gee, Haslam happens to agree with me.
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@everlastingxxx said:
I dont know why Jerry Jones has to torture me with this crap. I was bummed out (ok devastated) when the Cowboys passed on Manziel but he has to continue to rue his choice. Again he talks about wanting to draft Manziel. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000370333/article/jerry-jones-i-was-so-close-to-drafting-johnny-manziel
His thoughts on Manziel:
"But Manziel is special. I know him personally. I know that he is going to be a success in the National Football League. And it was a hard decision. And it is one that I will probably for the rest of my career think about."
Anyways, i like Hoyer and i like Brown fans even if they post some ugly shit about Texas and Manziel fans. I think you guys deserve some success. It has been a long time. As a die-hard Cowboys fan, i did get to experience 3 Super Bowls. Its been a long fucking drought since then, i wont lie. But i really want you guys to do something special. I honestly believe Johnny will bring that to Cleveland. My wife the other night asked me...so what if Manziel fails?...i didnt flitch and told her...he wont.
I hope you're right.
I try hard to not slam other posters, even if I don't agree with what they're saying- in this case about Manziel. But fact is JF was passed over at least 9 times (by my count) by quarterback needy (or 1\2 needy) teams. MHO is if he had behaved off-field as well as say Bortles or Bridgewater- he may well have gotten drafted in the top 5. Regarding the Super Bowl- it's the 50th anniversary this year of Cleveland's last professional championship in any major sport. By far the longest wait of any city with at least. 3 major pro teams- football, basketball, baseball, hockey. Cubs fans? Boo hoo- Chicago had the Bulls and Bears. Lions fans? Tigers, Pistons, Red Wings. Some of us are starting to think the city is cursed- at least sports-wise.
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browns should trade him to jerry for a first round pick. if johnny brings that after the brown's bashing job.
that gives you 3 picks inside the top 10 next year.
when the owner uses the media constantly to punch a player, it's not a fit; time to move on. i can't imagine johnny isn't pissed about the situation too. prolly feels like an idiot for wanting to play for Cleveland.
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browns should trade him to jerry for a first round pick. if johnny brings that after the brown's bashing job.
that gives you 3 picks inside the top 10 next year.
when the owner uses the media constantly to punch a player, it's not a fit; time to move on. i can't imagine johnny isn't pissed about the situation too. prolly feels like an idiot for wanting to play for Cleveland.
browns should trade him to jerry for a first round pick. if johnny brings that after the brown's bashing job.
that gives you 3 picks inside the top 10 next year.
when the owner uses the media constantly to punch a player, it's not a fit; time to move on. i can't imagine johnny isn't pissed about the situation too. prolly feels like an idiot for wanting to play for Cleveland.
Yup, hasn't played a down yet. Time to move on.
It seems like JM realizes he actually has to work for it. You know, like how he had to at A&M his freshman year, something you Texas fags have been preaching since we drafted him.
So what do you Texas douche bags want? For him to anointed the once and future king or for him to actually earn his way?
Jesus weren't you the one bitching about Brown's fans acting like women? Unbelievable.
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so instead of just being on even ground and letting the QB competition unfold the way it will you come in here guns blazing because you think the majority of people are favoring hoyer?
well it's obvious that you are favoring manziel.
so? what now?
let me ask you a question. if it was a dead heat today (QB comp) and the majority of people were favoring hoyer....why do you think that might be?
(and it isn't because hoyer is from cleveland, so guess again).
maybe because one was at the facilities as much as possible, going home to his family and being a man while one was acting like an idiot and a spoiled brat.
Pretty sure Brandon Weeden was a choir boy family man too, doesn't seem to guarantee success.
You don't like Manziel as a person. That's the problem, so just say that, and let it be. That I understand.
However Manziel might be really really good. We don't know yet. And Hoyer might be really really bad. We don't know that yet either. But you seem to have locked in your answer on both.
Pretty sure Brandon Weeden was a choir boy family man too, doesn't seem to guarantee success.
You don't like Manziel as a person. That's the problem, so just say that, and let it be. That I understand.
However Manziel might be really really good. We don't know yet. And Hoyer might be really really bad. We don't know that yet either. But you seem to have locked in your answer on both.
i guess they don't teach people how to read and comprehend in texas. i told you i don't care who starts as the QB, more than once, what don't you get. i don't dislike JF, hell it's hard for me to point to 3 people i 'dislike' in life. do i agree with his behavior all the time? no. when i was 21 did i go out and party like a fool, yep, when i could. but you see i was in the army where it's like a 24/7 NFL football season. but yes, he has all the right in the world to do what he wants, just don't make the browns org. look like fools while doing so. fools for picking him in the first place.
objective? no. you have one agenda, to come on here and stir the pot between those that have local love for hoyer and those who are manziel fans. the REAL browns' fans want a winner no matter who starts at QB. that is something that you won't understand because you wear a TAMU manziel jersey. you don't know the first thing about the browns except they drafted your favorite man crush.
maybe you and mike SHOULD hold hands and go to another forum because your game has been found out and mike has long been exposed.
see ya! you will not be missed.
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browns should trade him to jerry for a first round pick. if johnny brings that after the brown's bashing job.
that gives you 3 picks inside the top 10 next year.
when the owner uses the media constantly to punch a player, it's not a fit; time to move on. i can't imagine johnny isn't pissed about the situation too. prolly feels like an idiot for wanting to play for Cleveland.
browns should trade him to jerry for a first round pick. if johnny brings that after the brown's bashing job.
that gives you 3 picks inside the top 10 next year.
when the owner uses the media constantly to punch a player, it's not a fit; time to move on. i can't imagine johnny isn't pissed about the situation too. prolly feels like an idiot for wanting to play for Cleveland.
You call that punching a player? Give me a break. The kid needs to focus on football and not pussy.
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@mike-h said:
Mik, you're a sweetheart
XXOO!!
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@mike-h said:
If you want thr link to a good Browns forum, hit me up Stockton.
Mike,
Why don't you just go to the "good" forum and stay there?
We like our forum the way it is.
All you add to ours anymore is that A. We are stupid if we are not behind Manziel 100% B. This forum sucks. C. People that disagree with you are failed human beings.
My laundry is more interesting than your most current posts. But I am sure you are saving your good stuff for the good forum where old Browns fans who base their opinions on years of watching the NFL are washed out by the slurping sounds of those who are all in on our latest #22 QB selection.
Z
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I created that forum. By kicking all whiners out of here.
Best thing we ever did.
And, yes, I support all of our regulars, young and old, Hoyer and Manziel, if they are Browns fans we want to hear their opinions. Constantly banging on each other and banging on the board ... We still heartily encourage those to leave.
Z
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Ok, I've stayed off this for awhile, but while I AM an "old dude", I certainly am NOT bitter. In fact, Mike, you post as if anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing of football. In fact, I would list you among our most close minded & judgmental members. ALL members here, you & I included, are entitled to our individual opinions, but NO ONE should be berated due to a differing opinion. It is this badmouthing of others that I find tiring (and "bitter"). IMHO, this is a great Board with many real Browns' FANS who contribute positively & support the Browns' TEAM. That TEAM will be determined by our FO & Coaching Staff, whose opinions I trust much more than I trust yours, mine, or other Fans. I will support that Browns' Team that takes the field. If this board isn't worthy of your knowledge, you are certainly free to take it elsewhere.
If I am a "bitter old dude" for this opinion, have at it, but keep in mind that if you you would actually LISTEN to some of us "bitter old dudes", you might learn some real life lessons & maybe even a little more about football. You may disagree, but showing a little respect for others just may be in order.
Mike
INΒ DORSEY I TRUST -
Hopefully Hoyer will win the starting job and the Shits will trade Manziel, or just outright cut him.
At that point, hopefully a real champion like Pittsburgh will pick him up so he can wear out that Cleveland azz twice a year.
But be comforted...you douches know football because you haven't been worth a shit since before a lot of you were born.
Fuck Cleveland.
Hopefully Hoyer will win the starting job and the Shits will trade Manziel, or just outright cut him.
At that point, hopefully a real champion like Pittsburgh will pick him up so he can wear out that Cleveland azz twice a year.
But be comforted...you douches know football because you haven't been worth a shit since before a lot of you were born.
Fuck Cleveland.
Since I was born the Browns have won 3 championships.....numerous division and conference titles.
Sorry, but the fact is we DO know football.....and that is why most of us are not Johnny Football sycophants. I mean guys like you would drink his pee if it meant you could get close to him. We ARE Johnny Football fans....and we want him to do tremendously well.......but because we do know football so well we are also realistic. Just because a penny is bright and shiny doesn't mean it is worth much in the way of currency. I don't want JFF's value to be a copper Lincoln. I want it to be a paper Franklin. So, FYI, JFF has to earn a lot of interest to get where he needs to be.
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Once again everyone is getting WAYYYY to heated up over this.
I get the sense there are a fair amount of people who didn't want Manziel, watched the draft with pro-Manziel buddies and instead of admitting defeat are now doubling down with "Well he's going to be a bust" and "He's an embarrassment to the franchise because of his selfies" so they don't have to be "wrong" about the draft.
The point is this, with Manziel you might have a bad player, its possible, we will see. But you also have what the Browns haven't had in such a long time which is the potential for a superstar. And I'm not just talking about star, I'm saying HOF superstar. The potential is there. He did things in the SEC that are extremely rare, and he made plays that none of us have seen before.
Now will that translate to the NFL, we will see, but the chance is there. There is a chance we have the future biggest star in the NFL on our roster. Brett Favre-ish.Now with Hoyer we have a guy who played well for roughly 1 and half games in his career. Now I don't think Hoyer sucks, but I'm not seeing any potential for star here. I do think he could be an 8-8 QB. I don't think he's very accurate, and I do think a torn ACL doesn't help. Neither does Norv Turner moving on.
I have a hard time thinking that this emphatic Hoyer dedication from some fans would be the same if it was Teddy Twatwater that we drafted. I feel like there would a bit more excitement about the rookie. Which makes me think you just don't like Manziel. Which is fine, but don't disguise it as some kind of football conversation where you go "Oh well Hoyer has proven that he is a great game manager". No. Hoyer is nearly as raw as Manziel on the field. Just say "I don't like Johnny Manziel because I think he's a douchebag" and leave it at that. That I understand. So be it, and it's honest and it's fair.
Pretending that the reasons you dislike Manziel or are rooting for Hoyer are based on what has taken place on the football field is absurd. I've seen far more impressive things from Manziel, albeit in college in the SEC, than I saw out of Hoyer against the Vikings and Bengals.
And let's be real here, you know this isn't a real competition right? Manziel is going to play, eventually, when he's ready. He's not competing against Hoyer, he's competing against what the coaches think is "Ready". Once he hits that point, Manziel is the guy. Nobody actually thinks that we're going to go into 2015 with Hoyer still starting do they? 2016? I mean how much longer do you really think Hoyer has? This is already over, it just a matter of WHEN, not if.
The ceiling is so much higher for Manziel so so so so much higher. The floor is about the same for both of these players. How can that not be recognized? -
Ok, I've stayed off this for awhile, but while I AM an "old dude", I certainly am NOT bitter. In fact, Mike, you post as if anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing of football. In fact, I would list you among our most close minded & judgmental members. ALL members here, you & I included, are entitled to our individual opinions, but NO ONE should be berated due to a differing opinion. It is this badmouthing of others that I find tiring (and "bitter"). IMHO, this is a great Board with many real Browns' FANS who contribute positively & support the Browns' TEAM. That TEAM will be determined by our FO & Coaching Staff, whose opinions I trust much more than I trust yours, mine, or other Fans. I will support that Browns' Team that takes the field. If this board isn't worthy of your knowledge, you are certainly free to take it elsewhere.
If I am a "bitter old dude" for this opinion, have at it, but keep in mind that if you you would actually LISTEN to some of us "bitter old dudes", you might learn some real life lessons & maybe even a little more about football. You may disagree, but showing a little respect for others just may be in order.
Mike
Ok, I've stayed off this for awhile, but while I AM an "old dude", I certainly am NOT bitter. In fact, Mike, you post as if anyone who disagrees with you knows nothing of football. In fact, I would list you among our most close minded & judgmental members. ALL members here, you & I included, are entitled to our individual opinions, but NO ONE should be berated due to a differing opinion. It is this badmouthing of others that I find tiring (and "bitter"). IMHO, this is a great Board with many real Browns' FANS who contribute positively & support the Browns' TEAM. That TEAM will be determined by our FO & Coaching Staff, whose opinions I trust much more than I trust yours, mine, or other Fans. I will support that Browns' Team that takes the field. If this board isn't worthy of your knowledge, you are certainly free to take it elsewhere.
If I am a "bitter old dude" for this opinion, have at it, but keep in mind that if you you would actually LISTEN to some of us "bitter old dudes", you might learn some real life lessons & maybe even a little more about football. You may disagree, but showing a little respect for others just may be in order.
Mike
I can only surmise by the fact that he has no wish to hear opposing opinions means that it will be no different over there.
I mean, are they going to ignore a potential "Quarterback Controversy" over there....whereever there is?
Wasn't that board created, as Zombo said, because some guys that were on here were sycophants for one QB or another (Quinn or Anderson?)....and that they disliked an opposing opinion?
Here is the deal Mike H and others........my opinion is that I want the QB to play that will win..
....be that Hoyer/Manziel/Campbell/Weeden/McCoy/Tanney/Shaw/Thigpen/Delhomme/Quinn/Anderson etc. etc. etc.
I am not related to any of these guys, I am not their agent, they were not friends with my kids. They didn't go to my school
(Charlie Frye did....and when he was traded it was "Sayonara Sucker" as far as I am concerned..)
It doesn't matter to me who plays QB. That is why I contribute little on these QB argument threads. Because they are boring and unproductive.
So, run off if you can't take a little disagreement.
But......if it is your opinion that you want the guy you want regardless of whether or not that person is the best one to lead the Browns to victory....then yea, I got a problem with that opinion. It means you are like these JFF anus sniffers....you don't want what is best for the team....you want what is best for your......what? Ego? I don't know.
I never thought you were that kind of guy. Sorry if I was wrong.
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browns should trade him to jerry for a first round pick. if johnny brings that after the brown's bashing job.
that gives you 3 picks inside the top 10 next year.
when the owner uses the media constantly to punch a player, it's not a fit; time to move on. i can't imagine johnny isn't pissed about the situation too. prolly feels like an idiot for wanting to play for Cleveland.
Yup, hasn't played a down yet. Time to move on.
It seems like JM realizes he actually has to work for it. You know, like how he had to at A&M his freshman year, something you Texas fags have been preaching since we drafted him.
So what do you Texas douche bags want? For him to anointed the once and future king or for him to actually earn his way?
Jesus weren't you the one bitching about Brown's fans acting like women? Unbelievable.
Yup, hasn't played a down yet. Time to move on.
It seems like JM realizes he actually has to work for it. You know, like how he had to at A&M his freshman year, something you Texas fags have been preaching since we drafted him.
So what do you Texas douche bags want? For him to anointed the once and future king or for him to actually earn his way?
Jesus weren't you the one bitching about Brown's fans acting like women? Unbelievable.
Let's not compare shaming arguments and hyperbolic tone to an observation of leadership. Ok, Susan?
Damn, you're right, I guess I am getting down to the thread level.
Having to work for it? I can only guess you guys see this as your hs two-a-days. I don't even know what this means at the nfl level. Is there supposed to be some 80's music montage?
He's not missing workouts or practices so yea, he's working. But for what? You said he has to work for it.
The starting job? Ok.
I guess that makes hoyer a terrible worker.
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Once again everyone is getting WAYYYY to heated up over this.
I get the sense there are a fair amount of people who didn't want Manziel, watched the draft with pro-Manziel buddies and instead of admitting defeat are now doubling down with "Well he's going to be a bust" and "He's an embarrassment to the franchise because of his selfies" so they don't have to be "wrong" about the draft.
The point is this, with Manziel you might have a bad player, its possible, we will see. But you also have what the Browns haven't had in such a long time which is the potential for a superstar. And I'm not just talking about star, I'm saying HOF superstar. The potential is there. He did things in the SEC that are extremely rare, and he made plays that none of us have seen before.
Now will that translate to the NFL, we will see, but the chance is there. There is a chance we have the future biggest star in the NFL on our roster. Brett Favre-ish.Now with Hoyer we have a guy who played well for roughly 1 and half games in his career. Now I don't think Hoyer sucks, but I'm not seeing any potential for star here. I do think he could be an 8-8 QB. I don't think he's very accurate, and I do think a torn ACL doesn't help. Neither does Norv Turner moving on.
I have a hard time thinking that this emphatic Hoyer dedication from some fans would be the same if it was Teddy Twatwater that we drafted. I feel like there would a bit more excitement about the rookie. Which makes me think you just don't like Manziel. Which is fine, but don't disguise it as some kind of football conversation where you go "Oh well Hoyer has proven that he is a great game manager". No. Hoyer is nearly as raw as Manziel on the field. Just say "I don't like Johnny Manziel because I think he's a douchebag" and leave it at that. That I understand. So be it, and it's honest and it's fair.
Pretending that the reasons you dislike Manziel or are rooting for Hoyer are based on what has taken place on the football field is absurd. I've seen far more impressive things from Manziel, albeit in college in the SEC, than I saw out of Hoyer against the Vikings and Bengals.
And let's be real here, you know this isn't a real competition right? Manziel is going to play, eventually, when he's ready. He's not competing against Hoyer, he's competing against what the coaches think is "Ready". Once he hits that point, Manziel is the guy. Nobody actually thinks that we're going to go into 2015 with Hoyer still starting do they? 2016? I mean how much longer do you really think Hoyer has? This is already over, it just a matter of WHEN, not if.
The ceiling is so much higher for Manziel so so so so much higher. The floor is about the same for both of these players. How can that not be recognized?with "Well he's going to be a bust"
dude, point to one post in this thread that says that about manziel. just one.
i'll wait.
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@mike-h said:
Mike, always enjoyed talking with you. It's the ignorant people who post in high volume and are unwilling to even accept listening to others' opinions (the first and only social requirement to begin a conversation, the purpose of an internet forum) who have ruined it here. And all three happen to be old, so I use that. There are plenty of older people I've learned quite a bit from, in their case it's what not to become.
Enjoy this place if you do, I don't anymore, peace
Who are these "old" guys? It seems to me that your biggest arguments have been with "young" guys, like TCPO...who I think is still in his 20s.
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@douche-nozzle said:
I'm sorry, you talking to someone else about ego is like Ted Kennedy lecturing someone on ethics!
So, I take it then that you have no ego.....that you consider yourself just a feckless, weak minded jellyfish.
OK, noted.
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