Jonathan Paul Manziel
-
"...Willie Beeaaaman..."
-
Showers VS Manziel
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2077755&forum_id=5
a lolz
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2132169&forum_id=5
after his first game
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2147248&forum_id=5
I expect this board to mirror.
you guys forget, been here, heard that. his HS stats didn't matter either. kid is special. nothing you've seen before. will it translate? IDK.
I think so though.
-
Showers VS Manziel
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2077755&forum_id=5
a lolz
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2132169&forum_id=5
after his first game
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2147248&forum_id=5
I expect this board to mirror.
you guys forget, been here, heard that. his HS stats didn't matter either. kid is special. nothing you've seen before. will it translate? IDK.
I think so though.
Showers VS Manziel
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2077755&forum_id=5
a lolz
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2132169&forum_id=5
after his first game
http://forums.texags.com/main/forum.reply.asp?topic_id=2147248&forum_id=5
I expect this board to mirror.
you guys forget, been here, heard that. his HS stats didn't matter either. kid is special. nothing you've seen before. will it translate? IDK.
I think so though.
Those links are insane to read.
The first one is almost identical to this thread, it really is eerie.
-
Manziel has enough people in the media attacking him, you'd think he'd get a break from the Browns fans at least.
But nope. Don't want to support the future QB of the Browns. Well why not? Oh because he takes selfies and parties in Vegas.
Sounds fair. What fantastic fans to play for.
Damn. I didn't realize we had to adjust our attitudes for a rookie. I thought it was the other way around.
Damn. I didn't realize we had to adjust our attitudes for a rookie. I thought it was the other way around.
The Manziel fans can't figure out why we're skeptical Well here's why
As The Gipper eloquently pointed out- our logic is- can JFF succeed where so many others have tried and failed?
Your second statement is absolutely incorrect. Every player has exactly the same chance to be good in the NFL as anyone else, regardless of college career. It's not the college career that makes a player successful in the NFL. It's the talent level the player possesses that makes them successful at both levels.
There are an infinite amount of variables that can affect how successful a player becomes in the NFL. Scheme fit, maturity, weather, coaching, supporting cast, freak injuries, player strikes, family tragedies, car accidents - all of those can affect a player's chances of having a strong NFL career.
I love Manziel. I absolutely love the pick. Because, even if he crashes and burns, he'll have brought a bunch of media attention to the team during this transition phase. To those who poo-poo the attention and claim it's negative...there's no such thing as negative publicity. Airtime, whether good or bad, is airtime.To an extent I agree TC, but the Manziel Mania is drawing attention away from the rest of the team. This thread is a good example. I'd much rather have news (and discuss) how Gilbert and Bitono are looking than have to tilt at windmills with the JF camp. That will sort itself out in due time.
Did you just say that any 8-8 QB is the same as a Super Bowl winning QB? Excuse me "SuperBall"? That is insane.
I would say any NFL starting quarterback could start for any damn team in the SEC- and 90+% of them would have been starting ahead of Johnny Football at A&M.
NFL is about talent above all. This idea that "Well he's a family man and works hard" is about 2% of the equation. The biggest part of the equation is talent.
Manziel has shown a rare talent in the most difficult defensive league in college football. Now is that the NFL? No, but there's no higher level to measure a college QB against than the SEC. Thats enough to get me excited about his prospects. Nobody expects him to come in and be perfect, but I do anticipate seeing what he can do in the NFL. Of course he's not ready right now, but he'll be ready at some point and when he is no Las Vegas selfie, or hat on backwards, or how many hours he studied the playbook is going to matter...only talent. Thats all there is to it.
What people that are not around professional sports always lack is understanding that it's about the talent. Professional sports is not fair, there are plenty of guys who are lazy and are amazing athletes and they beat out guys who work their butts off and study every day. Its about talent. People want to romanticize it, that it's these people who have worked so hard and crafted this art for so many years. Nope. It's talent. That's why guys like Jordan Cameron are millionaires. Talent. Played essentially no football, but still ends up being a pro bowler. Talent. Manziel has shown the potential for great talent. If it translates to the NFL, then he will be very very very good.
It's not all about "talent"- the most "talented" players get drafted in the first round- and it's littered with busts- even at the quarterback position. If it was all about talent- guys like Jeff George or Ryan Leaf would be in the HOF. Talent helps- but it's not the sole factor (beyond a cetain point) to predict NFL success.
college to the NFL isn't chess to cricket.
stats aren't everything
but when a guy goes out a does what johnny did on a football field, it matters when discussing his football ability.
I can't say it any slower.
it is not everything-but it is something.
I'm not discounting that. Geeze, I see Jerry Jones is having reverse buyer's remorse. Yup Jerry- the media circus would be in Dallas, not Cleveland, I'm sure you would have loved it.
-
the only people that bring up his college stats are the people that want him to get a free pass and be starter with no competition.
i've never brought up his college stuff because it's not relevant. his twatter shit isn't relevant either. what is is how he's doing in TC.
did we pick manziel to be a bench warmer? hell no. can he win the starting job? that's up to him and the coaching staff.
the fans neither pro JF or con JF have nothing to do with it at this point so we're all just spouting shit that matters ZERO in the end.
to just post the same post over and over again is just stupid. we should know after 13 fucking pages of this thread where everyone stands. to keep beating a dead horse, well i guess some people get off on it.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Only in your mind it doesn't. My alternate universe says Hoyer light it up, gets voted NFL MVP after he wins the Super Bowl, and we trade JFF to the Cowboys for a couple of first round picks. Ya see once upon a time we had this 17th round draft choice come in and get voted NFL MVP- guy by the name of Brian Sipe.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
Here's the huge difference. If Manziel flops- you guys will be long gone- just like our #1 never to be forgotten Derek Anderson homer Lumburgh. However, we as Browns fans will still be here- regardless. Maybe JF will be the answer. And I'll turn the tables on you- if you want to better understand the Cleveland psyche. If JF was from Cleveland, and Hoyer was from Texas, you can damn well bet it would be one hell of a lot different- Hoyer wouldn't have had a snowball's chance in hell of being the starter- the fans would have rioted. But hate to tell you, that's not the case- TC and the preseason games will determine who the better qb currently is- and that's all that matters. FWIW, I think it would be monumentally stupid to trot Manziel out there in the opener against the Steelers- on the road. If it was at home against the Jaguars, I might think differently.
BTW, I'd suggest you look a little higher up in this thread as to why Hoyer has merely been "a career backup". Was he going to beat out Brady in NE, or Rothlisberger in Pittsburgh? Nope. Arizona put a second round tender on him and no one was willing to pay up. Seems like Mike Lombardi (in one of his few smart moves) had seen enough of Hoyer in NE for the Browns to claim him.
Here's a little more history for you Stockton- that I'd bet you a C note you didn't know. In the 1999 Expansion draft, the Rams thought so little of Kurt Warner he was available to the Browns- and they passed. Here's his 1998 stats: He ended his season completing only 4 of 11 pass attempts for 39 yards and a 47.2 QB rating. You may now STFU about Hoyer's (mediocre) undefeated 2013 season.
Those links are insane to read.
The first one is almost identical to this thread, it really is eerie.
I will give you the Stock Market investment disclaimer- past performance is no indicator of future results
-
the only people that bring up his college stats are the people that want him to get a free pass and be starter with no competition.
i've never brought up his college stuff because it's not relevant. his twatter shit isn't relevant either. what is is how he's doing in TC.
did we pick manziel to be a bench warmer? hell no. can he win the starting job? that's up to him and the coaching staff.
the fans neither pro JF or con JF have nothing to do with it at this point so we're all just spouting shit that matters ZERO in the end.
to just post the same post over and over again is just stupid. we should know after 13 fucking pages of this thread where everyone stands. to keep beating a dead horse, well i guess some people get off on it.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
ok so why are you posting 12 times a day about how we all hate him and blah blah blah.
manziel is the starter (just not yet). badda bing badda boom. end of story.
-
You can say all you want that College success doesn't guarantee NFL success, and you're correct.
However it is a pretty good indicator. If you're a great player in college you have a much better chance at being a good NFL player than a player who wasn't great in college.
You're treating it like it's a crap shoot. It's not a crap shoot. Those players drafted in the 1st round, were picked because they were great in college. Now some will not live up to it in the NFL, but they're far more likely to become Pro Bowl players than 5th round picks and there's a reason for that.
Your second statement is absolutely incorrect. Every player has exactly the same chance to be good in the NFL as anyone else, regardless of college career. It's not the college career that makes a player successful in the NFL. It's the talent level the player possesses that makes them successful at both levels.
There are an infinite amount of variables that can affect how successful a player becomes in the NFL. Scheme fit, maturity, weather, coaching, supporting cast, freak injuries, player strikes, family tragedies, car accidents - all of those can affect a player's chances of having a strong NFL career.
But having success in college doesn't indicate success in the NFL. Not one bit. It's not a predictor.
Partly because "success" is too relative a term. What is succesful for one program may not be successful for another. Sure, Peyton Manning was a success in college and is a success in the NFL. Same goes for Andrew Luck and RG3. But would you call Brady's college career a success? What about Ryan Tannehill's? What about Nick Foles'? Stafford's? Their careers were, for the most part, underwhelming. Singularly, they were successful players. But they never won a championship, never won a Heisman, never went undefeated.
Jeremiah Masoli had a decently successful career with Oregon. As did Dennis Dixon. Neither of them have amounted to shit in the NFL .
In a way, it is a crap shoot. It's not a crap shoot in terms of talent. Johnny is immensly talented. But what is a crap shoot is everything else. Hoyer may go on to flip a switch and become great. Johnny may tear an ACL in training camp. Manziel may get the start and half of the offensive line may go down with injury.
I love Manziel. I absolutely love the pick. Because, even if he crashes and burns, he'll have brought a bunch of media attention to the team during this transition phase. To those who poo-poo the attention and claim it's negative...there's no such thing as negative publicity. Airtime, whether good or bad, is airtime.
Your second statement is absolutely incorrect. Every player has exactly the same chance to be good in the NFL as anyone else, regardless of college career. It's not the college career that makes a player successful in the NFL. It's the talent level the player possesses that makes them successful at both levels.
Wouldn't that mean they would be as many 7th round picks starting today as first round picks?
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
the only people that bring up his college stats are the people that want him to get a free pass and be starter with no competition.
i've never brought up his college stuff because it's not relevant. his twatter shit isn't relevant either. what is is how he's doing in TC.
did we pick manziel to be a bench warmer? hell no. can he win the starting job? that's up to him and the coaching staff.
the fans neither pro JF or con JF have nothing to do with it at this point so we're all just spouting shit that matters ZERO in the end.
to just post the same post over and over again is just stupid. we should know after 13 fucking pages of this thread where everyone stands. to keep beating a dead horse, well i guess some people get off on it.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
There's always the possibility that Hoyer starts the enitire season if stays healthy and plays well.
I recall Carson Palmer sitting a year behind Jon Kitna and he was a #1 overall. JM is a #22 like Brady Quinn who was never really able to beat out Derek Anderson.
We all hope the best for Johnny but let's let it play out. It will be exciting to see him in preseason, that's for sure.
Zombo
-
This is what you don't seem to understand. Manziel has already won the starting job. That's why he was drafted, to be the starter.
Now is that Week 1? That's what TC is for. Probably not, and probably best for everyone that it isn't but if he is ready for Week 1 then it'll be then.
Most likely its after the bye. But even if he's not ready then, whenever he is ready the job is his.
See you seem to think there's some universe where Manziel isn't the starter and Hoyer just holds onto the job. That universe doesn't exist.
Manziel has already won the job, it's not a IF he'll be the starter, it's just WHEN he'll be the starter. It is inevitable.
There's always the possibility that Hoyer starts the enitire season if stays healthy and plays well.
I recall Carson Palmer sitting a year behind Jon Kitna and he was a #1 overall. JM is a #22 like Brady Quinn who was never really able to beat out Derek Anderson.
We all hope the best for Johnny but let's let it play out. It will be exciting to see him in preseason, that's for sure.
Zombo
Zombo said:
There's always the possibility that Hoyer starts the enitire season if stays healthy and plays well.
I recall Carson Palmer sitting a year behind Jon Kitna and he was a #1 overall. JM is a #22 like Brady Quinn who was never really able to beat out Derek Anderson.
We all hope the best for Johnny but let's let it play out. It will be exciting to see him in preseason, that's for sure.
Zombo
First guy that beats the Squeelers is my boy.
WSS
-
Hoyer is the starter and it's not even close. Watch training camp daily...JFF is throwing ducks in the dirt and airmailing everyone. He's not comfortable with the offense, yet.
-
Manziel has shown a rare talent in the most difficult defensive league in college football. Now is that the NFL? No, but there's no higher level to measure a college QB against than the SEC.
Except history has shown that more better QBs come out of the Pac 12 and Big Ten.
-
Your second statement is absolutely incorrect. Every player has exactly the same chance to be good in the NFL as anyone else, regardless of college career. It's not the college career that makes a player successful in the NFL. It's the talent level the player possesses that makes them successful at both levels.
Wouldn't that mean they would be as many 7th round picks starting today as first round picks?
WSS
Wouldn't that mean they would be as many 7th round picks starting today as first round picks?
WSS
No.
What I'm saying is that what a player did in the past has no influence on what he'll do in the future.
The only effect a college career has on an NFL career is determining where and when you are drafted, that's all. It's not "hey, he threw for 4500 yards in the SEC, so he'll throw for 4500 in the NFL."
-
I'm gettting awfully confused between the people who seem to think that because a player was good in the past that doesn't mean he'll be good in the future and the people who think that because Brian Sipe and Kurt Warner were good in the past that means Brian Hoyer is going to be NFL MVP.
I'm not recognizing a lot of football IQ around here. -
bye.
for someone who is supposed to be a browns fan (really? c'mon man) i don't see you posting anywhere else on this forum except the manziel thread.
why is that?
-
And the hate card hits the table... Game Over...
It's been good attempting to talk to you.
'OUR"?
this brian hoyer guy who blows and only has two games under his belt as a NFL starter is making manziel look like a rookie from a division 3 school and you can't handle it.
**eruption of muffled chants "We love Johnny Scrambles!! Hip Hip Hooray!!" from a chorus of cock filled mouths**
Gee I don't know where I get the idea that there is hate.
Gee I don't know where I get the idea that there is hate.
Not saying there isn't. Just saying the card has been played before. That generally it's of the universal variety which includes the merely skeptical... and the convo is over.
Another interesting take. The concluding sentence, is close to what I have said for a long time. The longer Hoyer starts, the more success we are having.
"If it happens sooner, it happens sooner. But if it doesn’t, and if there is any sort of debate over when he does start because Hoyer is performing well, that is a GREAT problem for the Browns,"
i lol'd at "fresher troll material". actually i just did again. funny.
re: JM's ball release...it was adequate for college ball but they are screwing w it like they did B Quinn's with hopes they can tweak it to perfection...i just hope they don't make him start thinkin so much he starts forgetting how to play football...cuz thats how it looks to me--is like hes thinking and processing it all a lot slower than BH.
i can't help but wonder if Jon Gruden opened pandoras box with those laceless balls.
Thanks I'll be here all season...
I thought Gruden's laceless deal was around one play, the quick WR screen. I was unaware our staff was changing JM's mechanics.
JM played thru college throwing without his pinky on the laces. Then he worked with George Whitfield prior to his pro day and Whitfield got him putting his pinky on the laces. JM himself commented on how much tighter his spiral got. But like many tweaks to my golf swing over the years, the change has not stuck.
The biggest part of the equation is talent.
I believe that every elite QB in the league would laugh in your face.
Left the insistence on continuing the college performance to TC...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
bye.
for someone who is supposed to be a browns fan (really? c'mon man) i don't see you posting anywhere else on this forum except the manziel thread.
why is that?
bye.
for someone who is supposed to be a browns fan (really? c'mon man) i don't see you posting anywhere else on this forum except the manziel thread.
why is that?
Browns fan can't see how insanely stupid other Browns fans are being in a thread and call them out for it?
I was in the Pound for the last game in 95, 14 years old, tearing up seats and trying to help pass them down. Still wear my "MUCK FODELL" shirt all the time.
Don't talk to me about being a Browns fan. I have the Browns in my blood. That's why I question the fan level of some of you who mock our future starting QB. What a disgrace. You know how hard it is for the Browns to have this kind of chance with this kind of talent? I mean you think Hoyer is going to lead us to the Super Bowl?! Are you kidding me? AT BEST 8-8. AT BEST.But I guess thats where some of you died a long time ago, just hoping for a non-losing season.
Me? I feel pretty confident the Browns will get it right eventually, just like every other franchise does. I'm looking for when that happens, and it feels a bit like it's happening soon. That's exciting to me, but I know that for us to move to the to level of the NFL it's going to take Manziel being Manziel. That's why he was picked in the 1st round. The upside is so high.
-
bye.
for someone who is supposed to be a browns fan (really? c'mon man) i don't see you posting anywhere else on this forum except the manziel thread.
why is that?
Browns fan can't see how insanely stupid other Browns fans are being in a thread and call them out for it?
I was in the Pound for the last game in 95, 14 years old, tearing up seats and trying to help pass them down. Still wear my "MUCK FODELL" shirt all the time.
Don't talk to me about being a Browns fan. I have the Browns in my blood. That's why I question the fan level of some of you who mock our future starting QB. What a disgrace. You know how hard it is for the Browns to have this kind of chance with this kind of talent? I mean you think Hoyer is going to lead us to the Super Bowl?! Are you kidding me? AT BEST 8-8. AT BEST.But I guess thats where some of you died a long time ago, just hoping for a non-losing season.
Me? I feel pretty confident the Browns will get it right eventually, just like every other franchise does. I'm looking for when that happens, and it feels a bit like it's happening soon. That's exciting to me, but I know that for us to move to the to level of the NFL it's going to take Manziel being Manziel. That's why he was picked in the 1st round. The upside is so high.
Browns fan can't see how insanely stupid other Browns fans are being in a thread and call them out for it?
I was in the Pound for the last game in 95, 14 years old, tearing up seats and trying to help pass them down. Still wear my "MUCK FODELL" shirt all the time.
Don't talk to me about being a Browns fan. I have the Browns in my blood. That's why I question the fan level of some of you who mock our future starting QB. What a disgrace. You know how hard it is for the Browns to have this kind of chance with this kind of talent? I mean you think Hoyer is going to lead us to the Super Bowl?! Are you kidding me? AT BEST 8-8. AT BEST.But I guess thats where some of you died a long time ago, just hoping for a non-losing season.
Me? I feel pretty confident the Browns will get it right eventually, just like every other franchise does. I'm looking for when that happens, and it feels a bit like it's happening soon. That's exciting to me, but I know that for us to move to the to level of the NFL it's going to take Manziel being Manziel. That's why he was picked in the 1st round. The upside is so high.
Dude, just step away from the keyboard. We get it. Enough........... Go pound out a quickie while gazing lustfully at your Johnny Football poster.
-
Johnny Football poster, good one, you've very clever.
This isn't even about Manziel. I'm excited because of his upside, but I've said over and over he is Boom or Bust. I'm fully aware.What this is about is Hoyer and people thinking that somehow he is either going to 1) Keep the starting job forever and/or 2) Turn into Kurt Warner.
Both of those scenarios are insane.
History will not look kindly on people who keep posting about Hoyers potential greatness.
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login