JF leapfrogs Hoyer (accord. to source)
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Retweeted by Cleveland Browns
Pettine: We have not made a decison for which QB will start against the Redskins. There's no clear-cut favorite. Both can be NFL starters
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It makes no sense to me to start the season with JF. The schedule is tough and he is a rookie who can learn from a couple of games on the bench. I agree that Hoyer will have a short leash and would have to play lights-out to stay on the field. But he should have the first three games.
PS Hoyer will never excel in a 1.5 quarter game because his strength is game management. He excels over the course of a full game, making few mistakes and taking what the defense gives him. I'm as ready as the next person to see the JF era in Cleveland, but Hoyer deserves his chance, and I wouldn't doubt his ability to succeed. When he was on a roll last year, he was moving the team consistently down the field and was extremely effective and efficient.
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I'm not taking a side, just posting a link.
Just curious what would you expect the coach to say?
Be careful Frenchy, a lot of these guys get mad if you call Brian Hoyer a game manager...
WSS
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I'm not taking a side, just posting a link.
Just curious what would you expect the coach to say?
Be careful Frenchy, a lot of these guys get mad if you call Brian Hoyer a game manager...
WSS
I'm not taking a side, just posting a link.
Just curious what would you expect the coach to say?
Just posting a link as well.
Curious, what would you expect a hack with an "un-named source" to say?
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Well the title of the article just says "could." I can make that fucking prediction.
The Browns "could" coax Joe Namath out of retirement.
They "could" go with a brilliant new offense from Shanahan that has no quarterback.
But guys that write sports stuff for a living need a story. And I would bet every sports writer knows a handful of people that work for the team who might say "hey you can't tell anybody I told you but..."
WSS
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To bad Johnny didnt go to another team. Bunch of ungrateful fans here.
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I agree. Then all you nutlickers could piss off another teams fans with your agenda filled drivel.To bad Johnny didnt go to another team. Bunch of ungrateful fans here.
Ungrateful? We should be grateful for what exactly? Mini me's presence?
See....that's why no one likes you manzealots. You're out of touch with reality. You're bias allows to be dub him the second coming after a typical rookie outing in his first preseason game. Envy is a bitch.....jealousy invites irrationality.
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Thanks for the warning, Westside. Look Manziel probably has twice the potential that Hoyer has. And call me "old school" but I believe in rewarding success and in patience / break-in for rookies.
And as far as Hoyer being a game manager, have we forgotten:
Minnesota: Hoyer threw three touchdowns in the win. He came through in the clutch and threw a 7-yard TD pass to Cameron with 51 seconds left as the Browns rallied to stun the Vikings.
Cincinnati: Hoyer threw two touchdown passes in his first start at home to lead the revived Browns to a 17-6 win over the Bengals including a 1 yard TD pass to Chris Ogbonnaya with 4:54 left to give the Browns (2-2) the 11-point lead
I know we only have two games to base this on, but I thoroughly enjoyed watching those two games and I thought Hoyer showed tremendous effectiveness and skill under stress.
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and...... You're doneTo bad Johnny didnt go to another team. Bunch of ungrateful fans here.
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@everlastingxxx said:
There are plenty of reasons why Manziel should start on opening day.
He is going to make mistakes and you have to give him a chance to grow into the position. .
I dont think the NFL was like it was back in the day for rookie QBs. Many of them have immediately come in and been successful. The rules favor the offense and protecting the QB.
I also think these coaches have to win now. Playing around with a safer option might not translate to wins. The owner has no problem chunking a coaching staff after a season. Manziel will sacrifice his body for a yard. They will need that mentality to win in a tough division.
I say start Johnny. If he gets hurt (which is a real possibility) Hoyer will come in and save the day.
Plenty of reasons to not start Manziel right out of the gate too. You mentioned it- Manziel showed a propensity to sacrifice his body for a yard- that's a quick trip to IR in the NFL.
The first three games are brutal. Steelers on the road for the opener? Sure. I don't want to see JF toss a few pick sixes right out of the gate and get the fanbase POed at him. You may find it hard to believe- but JFF does not have a monopoly on Cleveland loyalty- at least not yet. He'll get reamed- and justifiably so, if you toss him in against the Steelers, and he stinks up the place.
To bad Johnny didnt go to another team. Bunch of ungrateful fans here.
That would have been tremendous- because YOU certainly wouldn't be here. Ungrateful because we don't think Johnny is quite capable of this? At least not yet?
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Hoyer throws nice passes, has good timing, makes great reads and is accurate
Manziel is more of gunslinger like a young Brett Favre, he has a good arm, he can move as well as anyone. The extra dimension is his ability to extend plays.
If The Browns don't rush this, I can see Manziel being our franchise QB and carrying the team on his back.
As for now, I would keep Hoyer as the starter unless he absolutely stinks up the place.
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@everlastingxxx said:
There are plenty of reasons why Manziel should start on opening day.
He is going to make mistakes and you have to give him a chance to grow into the position. .
I dont think the NFL was like it was back in the day for rookie QBs. Many of them have immediately come in and been successful. The rules favor the offense and protecting the QB.
I also think these coaches have to win now. Playing around with a safer option might not translate to wins. The owner has no problem chunking a coaching staff after a season. Manziel will sacrifice his body for a yard. They will need that mentality to win in a tough division.
I say start Johnny. If he gets hurt (which is a real possibility) Hoyer will come in and save the day.
Plenty of reasons to not start Manziel right out of the gate too. You mentioned it- Manziel showed a propensity to sacrifice his body for a yard- that's a quick trip to IR in the NFL.
The first three games are brutal. Steelers on the road for the opener? Sure. I don't want to see JF toss a few pick sixes right out of the gate and get the fanbase POed at him. You may find it hard to believe- but JFF does not have a monopoly on Cleveland loyalty- at least not yet. He'll get reamed- and justifiably so, if you toss him in against the Steelers, and he stinks up the place.
To bad Johnny didnt go to another team. Bunch of ungrateful fans here.
That would have been tremendous- because YOU certainly wouldn't be here. Ungrateful because we don't think Johnny is quite capable of this? At least not yet?
Plenty of reasons to not start Manziel right out of the gate too. You mentioned it- Manziel showed a propensity to sacrifice his body for a yard- that's a quick trip to IR in the NFL.
The first three games are brutal. Steelers on the road for the opener? Sure. I don't want to see JF toss a few pick sixes right out of the gate and get the fanbase POed at him. You may find it hard to believe- but JFF does not have a monopoly on Cleveland loyalty- at least not yet. He'll get reamed- and justifiably so, if you toss him in against the Steelers, and he stinks up the place.
That would have been tremendous- because YOU certainly wouldn't be here. Ungrateful because we don't think Johnny is quite capable of this? At least not yet?
Thats what pisses me off about the JFF fanboys. If he succeeds it will be 'I told you so, even though you didn't want him to succeed'. If he fails it will be 'because the coaches didn't utilize him correctly, and the fan base didn't support him.'. STFU already. If he succeeds it will be because he is good. If he fails vice versa.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Plenty of reasons to not start Manziel right out of the gate too. You mentioned it- Manziel showed a propensity to sacrifice his body for a yard- that's a quick trip to IR in the NFL.
The first three games are brutal. Steelers on the road for the opener? Sure. I don't want to see JF toss a few pick sixes right out of the gate and get the fanbase POed at him. You may find it hard to believe- but JFF does not have a monopoly on Cleveland loyalty- at least not yet. He'll get reamed- and justifiably so, if you toss him in against the Steelers, and he stinks up the place.
That would have been tremendous- because YOU certainly wouldn't be here. Ungrateful because we don't think Johnny is quite capable of this? At least not yet?
Thats what pisses me off about the JFF fanboys. If he succeeds it will be 'I told you so, even though you didn't want him to succeed'. If he fails it will be 'because the coaches didn't utilize him correctly, and the fan base didn't support him.'. STFU already. If he succeeds it will be because he is good. If he fails vice versa.
+1Thats what pisses me off about the JFF fanboys. If he succeeds it will be 'I told you so, even though you didn't want him to succeed'. If he fails it will be 'because the coaches didn't utilize him correctly, and the fan base didn't support him.'. STFU already. If he succeeds it will be because he is good. If he fails vice versa.
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I know this will sound like a hanging offense to my fellow "Manzealots", but unless JF clearly shows he can move the 1's to multiple scores (barring another RB fumble screwup or sure TD WR drop), then the starting job should go to Hoyer until the season is a loss. He proved before the injury that he could win and Johnny has a lot of ground to cover before he is truely ready. I still think he is the long term talent, but I want him to learn the art of the slide as much as anyone here. He's so damn competitive he just does not know the meaning yet of live to fight another day.
That said, he has shown in the past he is capable of doing things differently. He truely developed into a better pocket passer after the Heisman year and he ran half as often. That was all by design on his part. He's a smart guy and he will learn quick to jump or throw out of bounds and to slide well before a hit can be delivered. It is my hope for him that he finds that fine balance between Johnny Football and Johnny Cleveland. He will need both to help the Browns be where they want ot be.
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I know this will sound like a hanging offense to my fellow "Manzealots", but unless JF clearly shows he can move the 1's to multiple scores (barring another RB fumble screwup or sure TD WR drop), then the starting job should go to Hoyer until the season is a loss. He proved before the injury that he could win and Johnny has a lot of ground to cover before he is truely ready. I still think he is the long term talent, but I want him to learn the art of the slide as much as anyone here. He's so damn competitive he just does not know the meaning yet of live to fight another day.
That said, he has shown in the past he is capable of doing things differently. He truely developed into a better pocket passer after the Heisman year and he ran half as often. That was all by design on his part. He's a smart guy and he will learn quick to jump or throw out of bounds and to slide well before a hit can be delivered. It is my hope for him that he finds that fine balance between Johnny Football and Johnny Cleveland. He will need both to help the Browns be where they want ot be.
Rewatched JM's series last nite and the Zealots aren't going to like this, but he ain't ready for the NFL.
He spent the nite looking for open receivers rather than making reads... and that makes throws late. I only saw one throw that appeared to be on time... the post route to Gabriel. As I said in another thread, with one exception it appeared he looked at receiver and was done, then bailed. While he did not stare down every receiver, he had a couple doozies... most notably the stop to the far sideline that sailed over the WR's head.
The arm is there. The wheels are undeniable. But... the... kid... ain't... ready.
That said... give him the start vs. WSH.
@everlastingxxx said:
When i mentioned Manziel sacrificing his body for a yard i was talking about his mentality that every game matters to him. With a coaching staff on a short leash, they need someone who will sell out each game. Although Manziel did get injured, he never missed a game in college. Hoyer can easily toss a pick six aswell. You assume he is incapable of these same type of mistakes. JFF is loved in Cleveland. Maybe not on this forum but i believe many of you guys are not the majority. I have watched a number of youtube videos of his draft day, people of Cleveland love him. Reason why his jersey is #1 in the NFL. BTW, he wont stink it up against the Steelers. He will give the Browns a chance to win.
One... injury is a concern. NAd JM's indeniable competitive fire is the reason it is a concern. He got dinged in that little passion play you cite. He winched on the way back to the huddle the next two times he ran. Appeared to either be shoulder or neck.
Two... you and others, including JM, think missing the game is all that matters. Gruden said it to JM's face in his QB Camp: Missing practice matters at this level; Not being 100% matters. Is it coincidence that 2 Ag losses occurred when JM was dinged last year?
Three... I've no idea about how NE Ohio breaks down fan-wise and I do not care. What I do know is that NFL starters are not chosen by fans. If they were, then Teboe would start every Sunday.
I know this will sound like a hanging offense to my fellow "Manzealots", but unless JF clearly shows he can move the 1's to multiple scores (barring another RB fumble screwup or sure TD WR drop), then the starting job should go to Hoyer until the season is a loss. He proved before the injury that he could win and Johnny has a lot of ground to cover before he is truely ready. I still think he is the long term talent, but I want him to learn the art of the slide as much as anyone here. He's so damn competitive he just does not know the meaning yet of live to fight another day.
That said, he has shown in the past he is capable of doing things differently. He truely developed into a better pocket passer after the Heisman year and he ran half as often. That was all by design on his part. He's a smart guy and he will learn quick to jump or throw out of bounds and to slide well before a hit can be delivered. It is my hope for him that he finds that fine balance between Johnny Football and Johnny Cleveland. He will need both to help the Browns be where they want ot be.
I love objectivity...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Manziel vs RG knee. That screams tv dollars. It will happen and they had probably decided it weeks ago
Manziel vs RG knee. That screams tv dollars. It will happen and they had probably decided it weeks ago
even if they both start what do they play, one quarter?
Kevin Jones 
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