Hoyer named starting QB
-
No running qb's !? Have you been watching football? Vick before jail, cunningham, elway, young, tarkington, kaeparnik, newton, rg3, only some of the best in any era.
Manziel's individual accomplishments in college Dwarfed what any of those guys did. His 3rd and 4th down conversion rate in college was over TWICE what any of those guys ever did. He's got unique abilities. If you arent going to try to use any of them you shouldnt draft him. So far the team is deliberately avoiding using them. There is no point in starting him or keeping him on the team. If all you want is a guy to stand tall in a tight pocket and throw a quick out he's not your man.
-
No running qb's !? Have you been watching football? Vick before jail, cunningham, elway, young, tarkington, kaeparnik, newton, rg3, only some of the best in any era.
Manziel's individual accomplishments in college Dwarfed what any of those guys did. His 3rd and 4th down conversion rate in college was over TWICE what any of those guys ever did. He's got unique abilities. If you arent going to try to use any of them you shouldnt draft him. So far the team is deliberately avoiding using them. There is no point in starting him or keeping him on the team. If all you want is a guy to stand tall in a tight pocket and throw a quick out he's not your man.
No running qb's !? Have you been watching football? Vick before jail, cunningham, elway, young, tarkington, kaeparnik, newton, rg3, only some of the best in any era.
Manziel's individual accomplishments in college Dwarfed what any of those guys did. His 3rd and 4th down conversion rate in college was over TWICE what any of those guys ever did. He's got unique abilities. If you arent going to try to use any of them you shouldnt draft him. So far the team is deliberately avoiding using them. There is no point in starting him or keeping him on the team. If all you want is a guy to stand tall in a tight pocket and throw a quick out he's not your man.
GTFO of here.
-
No running qb's !? Have you been watching football? Vick before jail, cunningham, elway, young, tarkington, kaeparnik, newton, rg3, only some of the best in any era.
Manziel's individual accomplishments in college Dwarfed what any of those guys did. His 3rd and 4th down conversion rate in college was over TWICE what any of those guys ever did. He's got unique abilities. If you arent going to try to use any of them you shouldnt draft him. So far the team is deliberately avoiding using them. There is no point in starting him or keeping him on the team. If all you want is a guy to stand tall in a tight pocket and throw a quick out he's not your man.
No running qb's !? Have you been watching football? Vick before jail, cunningham, elway, young, tarkington, kaeparnik, newton, rg3, only some of the best in any era.
z
No running qb's !? Have you been watching football? Vick before jail, cunningham, elway, young, tarkington, kaeparnik, newton, rg3, only some of the best in any era.
Manziel's individual accomplishments in college Dwarfed what any of those guys did. His 3rd and 4th down conversion rate in college was over TWICE what any of those guys ever did. He's got unique abilities. If you arent going to try to use any of them you shouldnt draft him. So far the team is deliberately avoiding using them. There is no point in starting him or keeping him on the team. If all you want is a guy to stand tall in a tight pocket and throw a quick out he's not your man.
Vick, cunningham, kaeparnik, newton and rg3 ALL learned the offense, know how to read an NFL defense and can play from the pocket....
Elway, Tarkenton and Young were pocket QB's first, who ran only when needed(they usually used RB's to carry the ball)...meaning they didn't need special plays just to make things happen....nope, they actually executed their offense like a coordinated team that had a plan....
And I didn't say running QB's cant play....But Vick never won anything, RG111 got broke immediately and Newton is GREAT from the pocket.... But Ill correct it to say...Ive never seen a running QB who couldn't operate out of the pocket win anything....k?
and no one cares about "college" accomplishments. Rally....the list of failed "cant miss stars" is too long to even contemplate. Johnnys college accomplishments are now just ancient history. The only thing they were good for is an initial draft rating ....and his was #22...... Now it's a clean slate again and time to start "accomplishing" ......
As a pro, his "NFL accomplishments" are 2nd team back up, lots of photo ops and 2 fines ,,,,,lets see how it goes....shall we?
-
Cbr, welcome to the board.
Manziel will get it, but it will take more time.
The OC is in the unique and kinda sucky position to where he's pressured to win now (NFL, go figure) but to also win later.
College to the NFL is like algebra to trigonometry. Same concepts but everyone's trying to out think each other, and the good ones do a good job at that.
Playing Manziel now will likely make for a rough start. Best case scenario he loses some games and lives.
The offense just got more complex so he NEEDS to know what the blocking scheme is and where the receivers are going to be to succeed, just like in college.
He just ain't there yet, that's all.
I'm personally kinda stoked at the thought that now the whole starting rigamarole is over with he can relax and imprint the plays in his noggin. Once he does that, look out.
-
Hoyer is a lot better than most of you think. Hide and watch!
-
No running qb's !? Have you been watching football? Vick before jail, cunningham, elway, young, tarkington, kaeparnik, newton, rg3, only some of the best in any era.
z
No running qb's !? Have you been watching football? Vick before jail, cunningham, elway, young, tarkington, kaeparnik, newton, rg3, only some of the best in any era.
Manziel's individual accomplishments in college Dwarfed what any of those guys did. His 3rd and 4th down conversion rate in college was over TWICE what any of those guys ever did. He's got unique abilities. If you arent going to try to use any of them you shouldnt draft him. So far the team is deliberately avoiding using them. There is no point in starting him or keeping him on the team. If all you want is a guy to stand tall in a tight pocket and throw a quick out he's not your man.
Vick, cunningham, kaeparnik, newton and rg3 ALL learned the offense, know how to read an NFL defense and can play from the pocket....
Elway, Tarkenton and Young were pocket QB's first, who ran only when needed(they usually used RB's to carry the ball)...meaning they didn't need special plays just to make things happen....nope, they actually executed their offense like a coordinated team that had a plan....
And I didn't say running QB's cant play....But Vick never won anything, RG111 got broke immediately and Newton is GREAT from the pocket.... But Ill correct it to say...Ive never seen a running QB who couldn't operate out of the pocket win anything....k?
and no one cares about "college" accomplishments. Rally....the list of failed "cant miss stars" is too long to even contemplate. Johnnys college accomplishments are now just ancient history. The only thing they were good for is an initial draft rating ....and his was #22...... Now it's a clean slate again and time to start "accomplishing" ......
As a pro, his "NFL accomplishments" are 2nd team back up, lots of photo ops and 2 fines ,,,,,lets see how it goes....shall we?
Vick, cunningham, kaeparnik, newton and rg3 ALL learned the offense, know how to read an NFL defense and can play from the pocket....
Elway, Tarkenton and Young were pocket QB's first, who ran only when needed(they usually used RB's to carry the ball)...meaning they didn't need special plays just to make things happen....nope, they actually executed their offense like a coordinated team that had a plan....
With you... except for Young... he had over 100 carries both his Jr and Sr year at BYU. He learned to be a pocket passer in SF after running for his life with the Bucs...
I am surprised how many folks erroneously think that Tarkenton was a running QB. As you said he was not. He was a scrambling QB... out of necessity with the then expansion Vikes.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Agree no one makes the hall of fame as a qb because if their rushing. But your point about tarkington (archie manning and favre arr more great examples) is right on. You dont CALL read options and play action keepers with these guys. You put them in a position to succeed in todays world by shotgun, pistol, all manner of means to five your qb space and vision.
Frankly, last night it is starting to look like shanahan is reading my mind. No zone read. Lots of shotgun. And it was his best night yet despite little help from some of the cast.
-
Vick, cunningham, kaeparnik, newton and rg3 ALL learned the offense, know how to read an NFL defense and can play from the pocket....
Elway, Tarkenton and Young were pocket QB's first, who ran only when needed(they usually used RB's to carry the ball)...meaning they didn't need special plays just to make things happen....nope, they actually executed their offense like a coordinated team that had a plan....
With you... except for Young... he had over 100 carries both his Jr and Sr year at BYU. He learned to be a pocket passer in SF after running for his life with the Bucs...
I am surprised how many folks erroneously think that Tarkenton was a running QB. As you said he was not. He was a scrambling QB... out of necessity with the then expansion Vikes.
With you... except for Young... he had over 100 carries both his Jr and Sr year at BYU. He learned to be a pocket passer in SF after running for his life with the Bucs...
And, really, that was my point....Young became a superstar when he stopped playing running back and started playing like a real NFL quarterback.....He didn't have to rely on his legs or running, because he could beat you with his arm and brain.....
and, when the chips were down and most QB's were forced to dump the play, THEN he would/could suddenly rip off a 30 yard run to save the day....a nice weapon, if used properly.....but it doesn't work when it's the primary game plan
-
You're going a bit far saying Newton is great from the pocket. Beyond his rookie year and Smitty bailing out some of his questionable throws - the NFL adjusted and he has regressed since.
There is nothing special about kaep's passing ability. He's actually well below average. He just happens to play with a loaded Oline. San Fransisco and Seattle ranked 29th and 30th in passing. A dominant ground game and defense goes a long way. RG3 is still a work in progress. But he's glass and his best asset is still his legs.
If you think you can run the fun and gun with JM in today's NFL then I'd encourage you to lay off the peyote.
-
Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot 2h#browns said Manziel will finish the first half Thurs night vs bears, maybe play into 3rd. Hoyer will start and prob play less than quarter
It's no secret that I'm far from a Johhny Fanboy, but man, I sure hope he continues to improve while looking more comfortable with each snap. I thought he looked better Saturday than he did the game before, and if he makes similar gains this week I will be pretty happy.
Don't even get me started about Hoyer. I'll just say there's no where to go but up. (hopefully)
-
Yes, Manziel looked better. He was also given several high percentage throws and didn't quite bail after his first read. I"m a bit shocked myself on the TD scramble because the Rams sent zero pressure.
However his internal clock is going to take some time. He rushes himself when there isn't heat and doesn't sense is when its coming. As evidenced from the Sam sack. He's got a long way to go in feeling the pocket which, aside from accuracy might be the most important trait in a QB.
-
Yes, Manziel looked better. He was also given several high percentage throws and didn't quite bail after his first read. I"m a bit shocked myself on the TD scramble because the Rams sent zero pressure.
However his internal clock is going to take some time. He rushes himself when there isn't heat and doesn't sense is when its coming. As evidenced from the Sam sack. He's got a long way to go in feeling the pocket which, aside from accuracy might be the most important trait in a QB.
Yes, Manziel looked better. He was also given several high percentage throws and didn't quite bail after his first read. I"m a bit shocked myself on the TD scramble because the Rams sent zero pressure.
However his internal clock is going to take some time. He rushes himself when there isn't heat and doesn't sense is when its coming. As evidenced from the Sam sack. He's got a long way to go in feeling the pocket which, aside from accuracy might be the most important trait in a QB.
Sam wasn't even blocked on that play.
-
After Shurmur and Chud, it's nice to finally have a coach that has balls big enough to make the tough decisions. He did not bow to media and fan pressure.
Hey, it's his a$$ and his job that is on the line here. And I think he simply choose the "man" he trusted to lead his troops, as opposed to the one the TMZ/ESPN/FOX world wanted. He would have been a fool to do otherwise.......(shurmur woulda buckled by now)
And so much for all the rumors about Haslam calling the shots on who starts...eh?
He did not bow to media and fan pressure.
... yet as far as the media is concerned it is as if nothing has changed...
Loved the "Manziel vs. Sam" promo prior to Saturday nite's game...
And, really, that was my point....Young became a superstar when he stopped playing running back and started playing like a real NFL quarterback.....He didn't have to rely on his legs or running, because he could beat you with his arm and brain.....
Got cha... it was the grouping that threw me...
Young made an appearance on NFL Live last week and had some advice for JM based upon his experience in making that transition. It was more or less to loop this mantra in his mind:
"Stay in the pocket... Stay in the pocket... Stay in the pocket..."
-
he sure earned it....not....hoyer sucks.....now the browns get to lose their first three games......
so you reward the hometown sweetheart who played like shit.....oh yeah, that makes sense....
he sure earned it....not....hoyer sucks.....now the browns get to lose their first three games......
so you reward the hometown sweetheart who played like shit.....oh yeah, that makes sense....
I would like to see Johnny Scramble play in some packages on opening day, especially against the PIT defense which is a work-in-progress. I see that game a a "pick-em" anyways, so CLE would clearly benefit from forcing PIT to have to deal with two different QB's.
CLE was unfortuanate to have not played PIT early last season when PIT was terrible, now CLE has a chance coz PIT does not have their act together yet.
-
on the bright side, after the disaster against the rams, hoyer and the offense can only improve against the bears....so i expect a better showing.....if not, damn, the browns are in trouble.....
-
No running qb's !? Have you been watching football? Vick before jail, cunningham, elway, young, tarkington, kaeparnik, newton, rg3, only some of the best in any era.
Manziel's individual accomplishments in college Dwarfed what any of those guys did. His 3rd and 4th down conversion rate in college was over TWICE what any of those guys ever did. He's got unique abilities. If you arent going to try to use any of them you shouldnt draft him. So far the team is deliberately avoiding using them. There is no point in starting him or keeping him on the team. If all you want is a guy to stand tall in a tight pocket and throw a quick out he's not your man.
No running qb's !? Have you been watching football? Vick before jail, cunningham, elway, young, tarkington, kaeparnik, newton, rg3, only some of the best in any era.
Manziel's individual accomplishments in college Dwarfed what any of those guys did. His 3rd and 4th down conversion rate in college was over TWICE what any of those guys ever did. He's got unique abilities. If you arent going to try to use any of them you shouldnt draft him. So far the team is deliberately avoiding using them. There is no point in starting him or keeping him on the team. If all you want is a guy to stand tall in a tight pocket and throw a quick out he's not your man.
Um, it's wasn't us morons- it was a bunch of pro scouts that questioned if "his unique abilities" would translate to the NFL. One ability JFF is going to have to learn is to look for secondary receivers in his route tree when his primary is covered- which he's still not very good at yet. He will NOT have the luxury of scrambling around for 10 seconds like he did at A&M looking for someone to get open when the coverages finally break down. BECAUSE.
"Running quarterbacks" tend to have a rather short shelf life in the NFL. RG III has been busted up once. Manziel has already figured out he isn't 1\2 as elusive in the pros as he was in college. I've already seen linebackers that can match his speed, and I can guarantee you 98% of pro CBs, and 70% of the safeties could beat him in a 40. FYI, Manziel isn't even the fastest qb on the Browns- Shaw posted a better 40 at the combine.
It's fanboys like you that make some of us wish we hadn't drafted him.
GTFO of here.
I see we have a new Manzealot in our midst. He'll have as short a leash as some of the departed ones DieHard.
-
Hello! It looks like you're interested in this conversation, but you don't have an account yet.
Getting fed up of having to scroll through the same posts each visit? When you register for an account, you'll always come back to exactly where you were before, and choose to be notified of new replies (either via email, or push notification). You'll also be able to save bookmarks and upvote posts to show your appreciation to other community members.
With your input, this post could be even better 💗
Register Login