Do juiced-up Steelers teams deserve asterisks?
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If you read False Glory written by one of their starting OTs for 2 Superbowls - he seems to think so. He was disappointed NOBODY fessed up like himself. They had a bunch of A-rods, which made future A-rods so possible . SI has done a couple of stories about them too. I don't see cities throwing parades for their Heroin users but if that won games and trophies - WOULD they? We know Pittsburgh would - but are other cities that bad? I think Canada wanted to send Ben Johnson on a 1 way plane ride to Pittsburgh. He would have started on their football team like alot of other junkies.
I get a kick out of the way SOME media makes A-rod sound like the very first cheater/liar they've ever discovered. In the 70s, the team that took the most junk won. If I wanted to follow a corrupt sport like that - I'd follow bodybuilding where the guy ingesting the most toxicity and flammables wins the trophy. Trust me when I tell you the Steelers would have been a MUCH BETTER story if it was just hard work in the weight room from both sides of their lines instead of bigtime shortcuts and crossing moral boundaries of right and wrong. GREED and POWER often superceeds right and wrong in this country though as it does around the world. Wall Street and Enron? Mortgage Companies? You get the picture.
I've witnessed an NFL random test in training camp in Tampa Bay. One guy made the team, the other did not. Point is, only 2% of the team was tested. In addition, of the 2% they test, MOST are smart enough to know that the current testing procedures cannot detect HGH so guess what the drug of choice is today? Wasn't it ironic to hear the Steelers' Team Doctor was investigated for excessive quantities of HGH purchased for his clinical practice just 1 year after a 5-7 truned into an 8-0 finish against the toughest part of their schedule? This doctor vanished into thin air. I'm guessing the Rooneys have him retired off in some tropical island where they'll never find him.
The year the Steelers started off 5-7, #7 was on the ground grasping his knee like he'd never walk again. 2-3 weeks later, he's running around like Randall Cunningham. You don't go from Bambi's broken wheel to Ben Johnson unless there's Ben Johnson ethics involved. If that's not enough, Ben's forehead grew bigger than Lerch's since draft day. Who's kiddin who? HGH has kept their IR list low. Coincidence? Think about it! Who here thought Joey Pottymouth was clean? And as 1 Steeler fan informed me - there was nothing wrong with steroids. Tell that Greg Loyd's wife and son that were tied up. The son got a pistol to the temple while the wife got a pistol shaft shoved through her teeth. Nice guy! That's the OTHER side of winning at all costs which gets hidden under the rug.
I don't mind calling out cheaters IF it's not gonna be so damn selective. There were Senators FIGHTING over Roger Clemons, but WOULD they fight over other cheaters? When we've had knuckleheads like Alzado and Verba on the Browns, they were jerks and their teammates hated them. WE hated them. When Tucker got busted, I said cut his ass. He's either been AWOL or a major distraction. When he was expected to be a team leader, that's a major disappointment. Cheating is cheating. Some will say there's ALWAYS been cheating; BUT I think there's a big difference between getting over-caffeinated and being able to bench press cars if you line up in the trenches. Man wasn't born to strap refridgerators on their back and race each other like all of the Steeler linemen used to do at the NFL's Strongest man competitions. Greg Pruitt was my version of Superman on the gridiron as a kid. If I found out the S on his chest was from steroids, he'd be nothing to me. I LOVE football so I'll always follow it. That said, I'd like to know the RIGHT people are being rewarded.
The NFL will never prevent 100% of cheating; BUT it CAN stop the extent of cheating alot more than testing 2% of it's players randomly (with tests looking for the outdated drugs of the 70s - let's get real). The NFL can UPDATE the testing to the thoroughness the Olympics use for NON-professional athletes. HOWEVER, that might be at the expense of taking those wasted dollars on sending millionaires to all expenses paid trips to Hawaii every February. When SI has to do a casket count for former Steeler players that couldn't reach age 50, I think it's worth trying to prevent more of this in the future. Here's the example kids of today are seeing: Superman is getting a needle and syringe in the fanny with something that isn't ethical to give him the strength that is so elusive to others. The message is - if you don't get caught, there isn't anything wrong. Plus, you can make the most money in your sport. A-rod, is an effect of the cause. The blind eye of MLB enabled this to happen. Doesn't excuse him. Football isn't any different if they're gonna cry poor sticking with outdated random testing.
- Tom F. (I ADMIRE hard work but despise cheating. There used to be a clearcut difference but I've been told I'm naive for thinking that way)
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The Cleveland browns were known for doing STEROIDS in the 60s before the STEELERS of the 70s.
The Cleveland browns have been caught lately using STEROIDS.
You just wish that your team had been more successful at it.
Then it's settled, the Browns have 8 championships to the Stoolers 6. I'd say that is pretty successful. You can't have it both ways boy. So put the meth pipe down because your cousin, I mean wife, is calling you for chicken and grits.
Then it's settled, the Browns have 8 championships to the Stoolers 6. I'd say that is pretty successful. You can't have it both ways boy. So put the meth pipe down because your cousin, I mean wife, is calling you for chicken and grits.
The browns do have 8 championships, the latest from fifty years ago that nobody on this board even witnessed. They sure as hell don't have any SUPERBOWL trophies and the game is much different today. Win a Superbowl, the browns are one of a few teams to not accomplish that.
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Flugel, that last post from you was beyond funny, it was downright ridiculous about the STEELERS of today using Steroids. There are multiple ways to treat injury and play through pain. It's funny that because the STEELERS are successful it must be steroids. Anabolic Steroids would work for an offensive lineman to bulk up, not to make a player faster. Anabolic steroids make your muscles recover faster after lifting, they are not some superdrug that fixes a persons major injury. Cortico steroids are quite a bit different than anabolic. Anabolic steroids make a person bigger, but also make a person slower. That is not a good mix for todays game of football and anyone other than a lineman. Even then, do you want a slow lineman? Wow, maybe that is why the STEELERS O-line was so poor this past year. It does not show why they were so weak and got pushed around so much though.
Some of you really need to get off the pity party you are on because of your teams lack of success.
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I suggest you read the book, "Anabolic Steroids In Sport and Exercise."
It will help some of you from seeming so stupid on the subject of Steroids.
You can read it here if you like.
Well, you can read parts of it there. I would like to see pages 43-59. Do you have the book? Why don't you fill us in?
My random thoughts:
I would like to point out that the original post in this thread was simply a quoted article by a national columnist.
I grew up in a household where my mom, dad and I attended one high school but my brother and sister attended the cross-town rival. We rooted for each other's teams most of the time but there was always the head to head meeting each year. There was good-natured ribbing but by the next day it was all forgotten and "wait 'til next year" became the motto for whoever stood for the losing team. I really dislike the pure meanness that sometimes takes over these discussions because I know how much more amicable the rivalries can be and still be enjoyable.
To me, steroids and other performance enhancing drugs take away one thing that belongs in athletics: respect for your opponent. If you defeat an opponent you don't respect, what have you won? In my opinion, nothing. If you win by cheating to obtain an unfair advantage, how can you respect yourself?
I've never understood the "he did it too!!!" argument as justification for wrongdoing.
Why should you be angry at Browns fans? Why not be angry at the people who cheated? They are the ones who chip away at the foundation of your pride in your team and your community.
We're spectators because being a spectator is supposed to be fun. A fair contest is a lot more fun for everyone than an unfair one.
Well, you can read parts of it there. I would like to see pages 43-59. Do you have the book? Why don't you fill us in?
My random thoughts:
I would like to point out that the original post in this thread was simply a quoted article by a national columnist.
I grew up in a household where my mom, dad and I attended one high school but my brother and sister attended the cross-town rival. We rooted for each other's teams most of the time but there was always the head to head meeting each year. There was good-natured ribbing but by the next day it was all forgotten and "wait 'til next year" became the motto for whoever stood for the losing team. I really dislike the pure meanness that sometimes takes over these discussions because I know how much more amicable the rivalries can be and still be enjoyable.
To me, steroids and other performance enhancing drugs take away one thing that belongs in athletics: respect for your opponent. If you defeat an opponent you don't respect, what have you won? In my opinion, nothing. If you win by cheating to obtain an unfair advantage, how can you respect yourself?
I've never understood the "he did it too!!!" argument as justification for wrongdoing.
Why should you be angry at Browns fans? Why not be angry at the people who cheated? They are the ones who chip away at the foundation of your pride in your team and your community.
We're spectators because being a spectator is supposed to be fun. A fair contest is a lot more fun for everyone than an unfair one.
I agree with you, using steroids today is cheating. The use of steroids in the 60s and 70s was not cheating at the time, although it did give some of those players a strength advantage. Was that cheating? They paid the price with their health. Every team at that time was using anabolic steroids, not just the STEELERS and it was a couple of offensive linemen that were using them, not the majority of the team. It's not a "he did it too" attitude that is justifying their use. It's just a fact that all teams were using them, they were not illegal or against the rules, the side effects were very unknown. Today players use all kinds of things like hyperbaric chambers, taking their blood out of their body and increasing it's healing effects, among others. Is it illegal? Is it cheating? It certainly gives them an advantage. I am totally against the use of anabolic steroids but looking back thirty or forty years and saying teams were cheating because they took advantage of something they though would help them and was available to every team in the league is rediculous. Holding is cheating, but only if you get caught. Same with any rule. Using steroids today is not only cheating it is stupid.
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Then it's settled, the Browns have 8 championships to the Stoolers 6. I'd say that is pretty successful. You can't have it both ways boy. So put the meth pipe down because your cousin, I mean wife, is calling you for chicken and grits.
The browns do have 8 championships, the latest from fifty years ago that nobody on this board even witnessed. They sure as hell don't have any SUPERBOWL trophies and the game is much different today. Win a Superbowl, the browns are one of a few teams to not accomplish that.
The browns do have 8 championships, the latest from fifty years ago that nobody on this board even witnessed. They sure as hell don't have any SUPERBOWL trophies and the game is much different today. Win a Superbowl, the browns are one of a few teams to not accomplish that.
You were the one talking history "the Browns took steroids in the 60's". Typically hillbilly, choosing what you want to define as history. Pot meet kettle.
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Well, you can read parts of it there. I would like to see pages 43-59. Do you have the book? Why don't you fill us in?
My random thoughts:
I would like to point out that the original post in this thread was simply a quoted article by a national columnist.
I grew up in a household where my mom, dad and I attended one high school but my brother and sister attended the cross-town rival. We rooted for each other's teams most of the time but there was always the head to head meeting each year. There was good-natured ribbing but by the next day it was all forgotten and "wait 'til next year" became the motto for whoever stood for the losing team. I really dislike the pure meanness that sometimes takes over these discussions because I know how much more amicable the rivalries can be and still be enjoyable.
To me, steroids and other performance enhancing drugs take away one thing that belongs in athletics: respect for your opponent. If you defeat an opponent you don't respect, what have you won? In my opinion, nothing. If you win by cheating to obtain an unfair advantage, how can you respect yourself?
I've never understood the "he did it too!!!" argument as justification for wrongdoing.
Why should you be angry at Browns fans? Why not be angry at the people who cheated? They are the ones who chip away at the foundation of your pride in your team and your community.
We're spectators because being a spectator is supposed to be fun. A fair contest is a lot more fun for everyone than an unfair one.
I agree with you, using steroids today is cheating. The use of steroids in the 60s and 70s was not cheating at the time, although it did give some of those players a strength advantage. Was that cheating? They paid the price with their health. Every team at that time was using anabolic steroids, not just the STEELERS and it was a couple of offensive linemen that were using them, not the majority of the team. It's not a "he did it too" attitude that is justifying their use. It's just a fact that all teams were using them, they were not illegal or against the rules, the side effects were very unknown. Today players use all kinds of things like hyperbaric chambers, taking their blood out of their body and increasing it's healing effects, among others. Is it illegal? Is it cheating? It certainly gives them an advantage. I am totally against the use of anabolic steroids but looking back thirty or forty years and saying teams were cheating because they took advantage of something they though would help them and was available to every team in the league is rediculous. Holding is cheating, but only if you get caught. Same with any rule. Using steroids today is not only cheating it is stupid.
I agree with you, using steroids today is cheating. The use of steroids in the 60s and 70s was not cheating at the time, although it did give some of those players a strength advantage. Was that cheating?
BIG time FOS. I define cheating as someone resorting to methods they need to be highly secretive about (because they know it's ethically wrong) in order to gain an unfair advantage over their opponent. When 5 olinemen are bench pressing between 500 and 615 pounds by alot MORE than just hard work at a day and age when this was unheard of, there's an ENORMOUS advantage gained. If they didn't need it then WHY did they take it? Even moreso, why were they so secretive if there wasn't anything wrong with guys sticking needles in each other's fannies if that was common place with drugs that require prescriptions from doctors? Let's not pretend you could find dianabol or testosterone or winstrol right next to the multiple vitamins in the nutrition stores. You're gonna have to get creative to sell me on this one. This came at a time when our Olympic athletes and those from other countries were complaining about Russia cheating to win with steroids.
The FIRST book exposing the casket count and nightmare of this eye popping practice was called Death in the Lockerroom - all about former elite, Olympic athletes dying inexplicably between the ages of 33 and 52. The SI story about all the former Steelers they followed after football looks disappointingly similar. As much as I hate the football team, I don't want to see their players dying and cheating life after football. Nothing worse than reading a 30-45 year old man died because he didn't have the RIGHT people looking out for him.
For the person that asks WHY wasn't this against the law back in the 70s if it was so bad. Well, we first needed guinea pigs willing to pioneer the practice here in the States to setup the NEED for such legislation. That was the Steelers and as a result, it's often noted that their advantages gained in the 80s created an enormously uneven playing field slanted toward those using needles and syringes. It would have been a wonderful story if it was just hard work. Pittsburgh was most often cited as the reason the NEXT generations of pro players were using steroids. Pitt didn't get penalized, they got more trophies leading to more endorsements, leading to more money. Now kids are using them. A-rod is about 30 years behind the Steelers but at the same exact mindset so how can you selectively determine Pittsburgh's practices behind closed doors were right and A-rod's were wrong? Steve Courson said guilt led to his book and he was extremely disappointed that MORE of his teammates wouldn't fess up. That sounds like a conscience while the others STILL wanted it kept a secret. If it's NOT cheating FOS why the prolonged secret?
- Tom F.
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Plumcrazy: What. Do you think the teams the Steelers played against were not using too? I have some swamp land in Florida I want to sell you. I'm not saying it's not cheating.. It is. But it's not just isolated to Pissburgh.
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Plumcrazy: What. Do you think the teams the Steelers played against were not using too? I have some swamp land in Florida I want to sell you. I'm not saying it's not cheating.. It is. But it's not just isolated to Pissburgh.
Plumcrazy: What. Do you think the teams the Steelers played against were not using too? I have some swamp land in Florida I want to sell you. I'm not saying it's not cheating.. It is. But it's not just isolated to Pissburgh.
Sez, why do you call me out on this and not everyone else? Not that I care, but just curious. I was just posting what others were thinking, and writing that was not Cleveland writers. You can keep your swamp land.
But does it make it right cause everyone else was doing it? And other teams don't have the former players calling it out, plus all the early deaths. Now don't get me wrong maybe others do have the early deaths on par with the Steelers I don't know I only follow the Browns, and because I do follow the Browns, I do keep up with their rivals more then I do other NFL teams. Now here lately I have paid more attention to others but for many years I only followed the Browns and the Browns only and of course the rivals.
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Everyone knows that every single Squeeler superbowl win is tainted, either by steroids or fishy officiating.
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Plumcrazy: What. Do you think the teams the Steelers played against were not using too? I have some swamp land in Florida I want to sell you. I'm not saying it's not cheating.. It is. But it's not just isolated to Pissburgh.
Plumcrazy: What. Do you think the teams the Steelers played against were not using too? I have some swamp land in Florida I want to sell you. I'm not saying it's not cheating.. It is. But it's not just isolated to Pissburgh.
Mostly they weren't. As Haslett said, the Squeelers basicalyl started the whole thing. Cheaters.
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Then it's settled, the Browns have 8 championships to the Stoolers 6. I'd say that is pretty successful. You can't have it both ways boy. So put the meth pipe down because your cousin, I mean wife, is calling you for chicken and grits.
The browns do have 8 championships, the latest from fifty years ago that nobody on this board even witnessed. They sure as hell don't have any SUPERBOWL trophies and the game is much different today. Win a Superbowl, the browns are one of a few teams to not accomplish that.
The browns do have 8 championships, the latest from fifty years ago that nobody on this board even witnessed. They sure as hell don't have any SUPERBOWL trophies and the game is much different today. Win a Superbowl, the browns are one of a few teams to not accomplish that.
First we had "everybody was doing it" as justification for steroid abuse. Now we have "if it was a long time ago it didn't count." Interesting philosophy you have there.
Woof Woof, Kathy http://cognitivemanifesto.com/ http://www.skadden.com/index.cfm?contentID=49&officeID=9 Bendix ESP -
The browns do have 8 championships, the latest from fifty years ago that nobody on this board even witnessed. They sure as hell don't have any SUPERBOWL trophies and the game is much different today. Win a Superbowl, the browns are one of a few teams to not accomplish that.
First we had "everybody was doing it" as justification for steroid abuse. Now we have "if it was a long time ago it didn't count." Interesting philosophy you have there.
First we had "everybody was doing it" as justification for steroid abuse. Now we have "if it was a long time ago it didn't count." Interesting philosophy you have there.
Exactly KS. Those hillbillies never have an answer, they just keep coming back with "it was so long ago". Your exactly right, they choose to define their own history, just like Hitler did.
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Everyone knows that every single Squeeler superbowl win is tainted, either by steroids or fishy officiating.
Everyone knows that every single Squeeler superbowl win is tainted, either by steroids or fishy officiating.
LOL , what an imbecile !
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Plum:
I only called you out since you started the thread. If that is wrong.... sorry.. I perhaps assumed you were stating the asterisk was correct. That's all. I do believe the Steelers seem to be the posterchildren for this, however are others.... Alzado (former Brown/Raider) and Matuzak that come to mind as potential steroid related deaths. Alzado believed his was and he believed Matuzaks was also
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But look at the sheer numbers from the Steelers of the 70's that were linked by former players, and early deaths. That is all that I find peculiar. Yes Alzado, did do them , but I think that was before the Browns (could be wrong) but still that was one linked to roids in the 70's!
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All of the '70's Squeelfag tifanny silver SB trophies are tarnishing with time. Admitted Steroid abuse and a pattern of illnesses among former Squeelfags. The superbowl tropies of the '00's will tarnish with time also, when an official writes a book about how they were either payed to favor the squeelfags or instructed to.
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i contend that if every team was doing it, why is the mortality rate of the squeelers from said era more than twice any other team from same said era?
there are more players from those teams dead than alive.....the stools of the 70's have the life expectancy of a feudal age single mother with the plague.
but yeah, everyone else was doing it.
it breaks down to money....stools sell more merchandise....it would be stupid to have let the cards win.
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Steroids and Losers don't make headlines, steroids and winners/recordbreakers do. The Browns were losers in the '70s, so any stories on them taking steriods just makes your "former" organization all that more pathetic. Yawn. Oh we still have six trophies and how many do you Brownies have?
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Steroids and Losers don't make headlines, steroids and winners/recordbreakers do. The Browns were losers in the '70s, so any stories on them taking steriods just makes your "former" organization all that more pathetic. Yawn. Oh we still have six trophies and how many do you Brownies have?
Endymion said:
Steroids and Losers don't make headlines, steroids and winners/recordbreakers do. The Browns were losers in the '70s, so any stories on them taking steriods just makes your "former" organization all that more pathetic. Yawn. Oh we still have six trophies and how many do you Brownies have?8.
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If you include our AFC champion trophies (the equivalent of the ones you Brownies promote) that puts us at 13.
Browns Super Bowl appearances = 0.
Browns AFC Championship vicotries = 0.
It's impressive winning 8 trophies against what was it back then 6 teams. Can't wait to see your highlight reels...hmmm was TV even invented back then? Oh I'm so envious.
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