Observations from today's game.
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Haden had a chance to stop a RB for a 1 yard loss on 3rd and 1, and he failed.
I wouldn't blame him for that, he had a tough angle on that tackle to stop the back on a dime. He made a couple big pops early on in the initial drives. He doesn't shy away from contact and isn't one of those DB's that leaps on the pile hoping to get credit for a partial tackle. He has good feet and can blanket receivers at times. He may have struggled today because of the whole hand check officiating. Probably would have preferred to play in front of Graham and hold one of his hands/arms down like the recent years, but played behind him as to not give up any big plays. The Saints had to work for all their yardage today, it's not like we got torched for quick strikes and big plays.
Let Haden do his job, think it is still early to call him out in this differently officiated season for DB's.
I wouldn't blame him for that, he had a tough angle on that tackle to stop the back on a dime. He made a couple big pops early on in the initial drives. He doesn't shy away from contact and isn't one of those DB's that leaps on the pile hoping to get credit for a partial tackle. He has good feet and can blanket receivers at times. He may have struggled today because of the whole hand check officiating. Probably would have preferred to play in front of Graham and hold one of his hands/arms down like the recent years, but played behind him as to not give up any big plays. The Saints had to work for all their yardage today, it's not like we got torched for quick strikes and big plays.
Let Haden do his job, think it is still early to call him out in this differently officiated season for DB's.
No one on either team got called for DB holding,touching, grabbing.
I was at the game and I sit in the endzone. I can and do watch the DB play,,,,,,,,, Joe Haden gets picked on more then ANY DB on our team
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
...um I hate pointing this out and all, since I'm a "who the fuck are you" person, but Hoyer is 5-1 as a starter for our team. That's beyond fucking huge!!!!!!!!!¡¡!!!!!!!!!!
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...and Gilbert played awesome!!
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Tj ward couldn't defend the pass very well. And he missed a lot of tackles but I was still sorry to lose him
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Haden gave up some disappointing plays. He wasn't great vs Graham or Antonio brown
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Big to be fair rivers crushed Sherman today too. No CB is infallible
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Big to be fair rivers crushed Sherman today too. No CB is infallible
Big to be fair rivers crushed Sherman today too. No CB is infallible
True, but when has Haden been Great?
He's not the guy that other teams avoid.
"And they don't really know even what they're talkin' about And I can't imagine what empty heads can achieve." -
Grahm is 6'7 and no one in the league can cover him. Didn't Haden completely shut down AJ Green last year? I think the only receiver I can think of that normally dominates him is Brown. Thats one receiver out of all of them.
Haden had a chance to stop a RB for a 1 yard loss on 3rd and 1, and he failed. Haden got picked on all day.
The Saints made sure Haden was on Graham, because they knew Haden couldn't cover him.
So-called shutdown CB, don't get picked on like Haden does.
Haden is a good CB, but he is nowhere near a shutdown CB.
So-called shutdown CB's either make plays or they don't get thrown against, and Joe Haden isn't either. Teams LOOK to throw on him, and they make plays against him all day..
Haden had a chance to stop a RB for a 1 yard loss on 3rd and 1, and he failed. Haden got picked on all day.
The Saints made sure Haden was on Graham, because they knew Haden couldn't cover him.
So-called shutdown CB, don't get picked on like Haden does.
Haden is a good CB, but he is nowhere near a shutdown CB.
So-called shutdown CB's either make plays or they don't get thrown against, and Joe Haden isn't either. Teams LOOK to throw on him, and they make plays against him all day..
Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong...
Haden is a great CB... no questions asked. BUT, every DB is going to have a tough matchup here and there. Same goes with superstars at any position, in any sport. Even the greats get beat once in a while, but it's what they do as a whole that makes all the difference.
Haden was "picked on?" Please. He gave up a couple passes to WRs, but no big plays. He only gave up points to Graham b/c it's a horrible matchup, but Pettine believed if he was going 1-1 against Graham, the only guy he could put on him was Haden. It wasn't the Saints picking on him.
Even Sherman, Revis, Patterson, etc. give up plays from time-to-time. It's the 2nd hardest position in all of sports...
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Big to be fair rivers crushed Sherman today too. No CB is infallible
True, but when has Haden been Great?
He's not the guy that other teams avoid.
True, but when has Haden been Great?
He's not the guy that other teams avoid.
You're kidding right? When has he been great?
2013 - Week 1 - Mike Wallace - 1 catch 15 yards
Week 6 - Calvin Johnson - 3 catches 25 yards
Week 11 - AJ Green - 2 catches 7 yards
That's pretty damn great if you ask me
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No offense, but I can't think of a single corner that matches up well with Graham split out wide. There is a reason the guy is dominant as a pass catcher. Putting anyone out there with a man assignment and no safety help is a + for the Saints offense every time.
That said, the Oline is building good chemistry and does very well opening holes for the ground game. West and Crowell have been very positive so far. Obviously a bit early to annoint them as Mack and Byner, but keep this up and it will be a 1-2 punch that brings back fond memories.
Donte- man, the second he left San Fran he's been different. Hasn't had a chance to hit anyone and roam. Can't quite get around the ball and is more of a liability in deep coverage than Ward.
Gilbert looked a bit better. He's still a rook, you're going to have theses ups and downs. Gipson is the most underrated FS in football. As for the defense getting "push". Not on the interior they aren't. Billy Winn had a couple nice moments, but I don't like him with the weight he's put on. Taylor and Rubin got fucking destroyed all game. There is zero excuse for this run defense to be this bad. I'd like to see some more of Hughes and Armonty. Desmond Bryant was supposed to be the pass rushing interior lineman- not sure what happened to his Oakland form, but he needs to get back too it.
The lack of a vertical pass game handcuffs this offense in the worst way. I think you could see something very, very good in Cleveland getting Cameron 100% and having Gordon.
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My biggest observation was the fact we're playing with a "TEAM-first" attitude. It seems the offense is feeding off the defense and vice versa. It's fun to watch. "Play like a Brown" as Pettine has been saying all off-season... Awesome!!
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so all you geniuses would not have paid him top 5 cb money and let him walk?
DB is the hardest position to play nowadays considering the league let's every WR push off right before the catch but they never make that call.
none of you working from your mom's birth canal to berea with all the training, hard work and clean off the field issues couldn't lick the sweat off haden's jock even though you'd love to.
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Ok, so we beat one of the most talented, best coached teams in the nfl today so ...
I dont know else to say other than "The Mike Pettine era is going well"
No Gordon, No Cameron, No Mingo, No Tate .. we were better ...does anybody else feel like ... FINALLY!
^This exactly! At least to me, there is a certain kinda swag that this team is building on. I hope this is the start of some good times ahead...Zombo said:
Ok, so we beat one of the most talented, best coached teams in the nfl today so ...
I dont know else to say other than "The Mike Pettine era is going well"
No Gordon, No Cameron, No Mingo, No Tate .. we were better ...does anybody else feel like ... FINALLY!
KRUGER is finally earning that big deal he got. Even if he's not the one making the tackle/play, he's having all kinds of influence so far.
Nice response from Gilbert after a bad game #1. Everyone needs to slow their roll on Haden. He didnt have a preseason and theres still 14 games left, he'll be fine.
Ben Tate better have somethin serious when he comes back cause CROWEST
looks like they have somethin special goin on.The Oline played a great game, seemed to be dominant for the most part.
Congratulations to coach Pettine for his 1st victory. They called a great game, im really surprised nobody gave him a Gatorade bath, he deserved one.
Lastly, i didnt like the JF thing. I feel like they got lucky on that drive. After JF had his play Hoyer made a big play on 3rd down to extend the drive and led to points i beleive, but if they dont convert they lose points.
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I wouldn't blame him for that, he had a tough angle on that tackle to stop the back on a dime. He made a couple big pops early on in the initial drives. He doesn't shy away from contact and isn't one of those DB's that leaps on the pile hoping to get credit for a partial tackle. He has good feet and can blanket receivers at times. He may have struggled today because of the whole hand check officiating. Probably would have preferred to play in front of Graham and hold one of his hands/arms down like the recent years, but played behind him as to not give up any big plays. The Saints had to work for all their yardage today, it's not like we got torched for quick strikes and big plays.
Let Haden do his job, think it is still early to call him out in this differently officiated season for DB's.
I do blame him for that. He hit the guy with his helmet, lowered his head and didn't wrap the guy up.
I do blame him for that. He hit the guy with his helmet, lowered his head and didn't wrap the guy up.
That was my first impression as well, but after 2nd look not so much.
I was at the game and I sit in the endzone. I can and do watch the DB play,,,,,,,,, Joe Haden gets picked on more then ANY DB on our team
Are you saying that every play we are on Defense you watch Joe from the snap to the whistle?
If yes, then hats off and excuse me because that takes a lot of discipline... and a friend to tell you what happened on the rest of the field.
But if no, then you are no better judge of Joe's play than Joe TV-Viewer.
...um I hate pointing this out and all, since I'm a "who the fuck are you" person, but Hoyer is 5-1 as a starter for our team. That's beyond fucking huge!!!!!!!!!¡¡!!!!!!!!!!
pssst...
4-1 for "our" team as a starter... if you give him credit for the Bills win last year... which I don't...
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
He did start that game though.
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Haden shut down some of the best receivers in the NFL last year, some of the stuff being spoken about him in here is mind boggling.
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I do blame him for that. He hit the guy with his helmet, lowered his head and didn't wrap the guy up.
That was my first impression as well, but after 2nd look not so much.
I was at the game and I sit in the endzone. I can and do watch the DB play,,,,,,,,, Joe Haden gets picked on more then ANY DB on our team
Are you saying that every play we are on Defense you watch Joe from the snap to the whistle?
If yes, then hats off and excuse me because that takes a lot of discipline... and a friend to tell you what happened on the rest of the field.
But if no, then you are no better judge of Joe's play than Joe TV-Viewer.
...um I hate pointing this out and all, since I'm a "who the fuck are you" person, but Hoyer is 5-1 as a starter for our team. That's beyond fucking huge!!!!!!!!!¡¡!!!!!!!!!!
pssst...
4-1 for "our" team as a starter... if you give him credit for the Bills win last year... which I don't...
That was my first impression as well, but after 2nd look not so much.
Are you saying that every play we are on Defense you watch Joe from the snap to the whistle?
If yes, then hats off and excuse me because that takes a lot of discipline... and a friend to tell you what happened on the rest of the field.
But if no, then you are no better judge of Joe's play than Joe TV-Viewer.
pssst...
4-1 for "our" team as a starter... if you give him credit for the Bills win last year... which I don't...
Actually Joe TV viewer has a much better view then being at the game. Close ups, replays etc. But Haden didn't look good yesterday or against Pittsburgh IMO.
"You planning on having a long relationship with that glass or are you going to drink it? Drink up, man. Maybe we can get another.” - Janis Joplin, 1970. -
Here's the thing with Jimmy Graham. You have to live with the guy getting the 10-12 yard completions across the middle. It's frustrating at the time, but a great TE with the ability to "box out" defenders on those sit down routes is going to win almost every time. I've heard it argued and tend to agree those types of TE routes with a good TE and QB combo are the second hardest pass to defend after the back shoulder fade.
With that being said, the only thing that really pissed me off was how we covered Jimmy in the red zone. It's blatant that Brees is looking for that guy, and you HAVE to take him away as an option. Putting a guy like Graham in single coverage (right before half) or losing him in motion (2nd half) is crazy to me. I was yelling at my TV both times how obvious the pass was going to be to him. Haden had good coverage on the TD right before half, but there's nothing anyone in the league can do to stop that.
Great win though, I still am happily shocked that this didn't turn into a "this is how the Browns lose" game.
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so all you geniuses would not have paid him top 5 cb money and let him walk?
DB is the hardest position to play nowadays considering the league let's every WR push off right before the catch but they never make that call.
none of you working from your mom's birth canal to berea with all the training, hard work and clean off the field issues couldn't lick the sweat off haden's jock even though you'd love to.
so all you geniuses would not have paid him top 5 cb money and let him walk?
DB is the hardest position to play nowadays considering the league let's every WR push off right before the catch but they never make that call.
none of you working from your mom's birth canal to berea with all the training, hard work and clean off the field issues couldn't lick the sweat off haden's jock even though you'd love to.
OUCH!
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Monday mornings suck. However Monday's after a Brownies win? They suck a little less.
Like said above, trying to stop a vertical threat TE on a stick or option route is damned hard. It's a high completion play and whats worse is that in this league, defenders can't be as physical as the offensive players are apparently being.
Trot out any CB onto Graham, Peterson, Revis, Sherman... none of them hold him in check when split out wide. Of course I didn't hear any of you bitching about Haden throwing a blanket on Cooks. That's the Saints second most dangerous player and he was silent when Joe was covering him. Speaking of secondary, can we give them some credit for making Colston a non-factor as well?
There are some major concerns I have with this defense. First being, where is Donte? I could swear we field 10 players at some points, the guy has been a great veteran presence, but aside from one awesome hit in the pre-season, not much else. Hoping that gets back on track soon. The next biggest being our front 3-4. They were owned all game. Big Phil and Rub especially. Desmond Bryant still needs time to get back to 100%, but he as well needs to give that pass rushing presence on the interior. Armonty had an awesome preseason and a couple good plays against Pittsburgh, but the rest has yet to translate to the regular season. I'm not too worried about him though, he's still a very young player.
The offense is ball control all the way. The lack of a vertical threat is a true handicap. However I"m more than happy with our pair of young running backs. West seems to grind out the tough yardage and Crowell is your home run threat. Great compliments to one another and as this team moves forward I think you'll see those two embrace that role. Their 'starting' spots within this offense will be interchangeable week in and week out depending on opponent. Aside from the sack taken, Hoyer didn't make any glarring mistakes. A couple errant throws, but nothing terrible. Its refreshing to see a QB that can take command of the huddle, and make a quick, safe decision with his passes. Get the skill positions set, such a Cameron healthy and Gordon back, then you have weapons who can go make plays for you.
This team has serious promise. That's what this game has shown, if anything. I still don't expect the world this season, but it is hard not to get excited about some of the results. Another influx of young talent, plus maintaining what we currently have and good things could be in store.
As it stands for the draft: I'll put my in depth thoughts on hold, but if I"m this front office, Leonard Williams is my primary target.
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