Changes / Improvements during the Bye-Week
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On STs...
Very simple...
1 - Replace Cundiff... with anybody
2 - Re-evaluate and/or replace Yount
3 - Replace Benjamin on PR
Special Teams plays are naturally "VERY BIG PLAYS" every time, so these guys have to be on their game every time they step on the field. These three have not, and that needs to get better...
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On offense...
1 - hmmm....
I seriously have no problems with the offense. Shanahan needs to lean how to call better plays when we have the lead, like when you have a 21-17 lead against a division rival with the ball in their territory... you HAVE to go for the jugular...
...but other than that these guys have all exceeded my expectations. Literally, every single one of these guys...
#Justsayin' -
Too many problems on D to list... but I'll try...
#1 - Rubin is getting blown off the ball. He's been my biggest goat so far on defense. He is 2 yards back before he even gets out of his stance, which opens up easy 3-4 yard gains on almost every play.
#2 - Mingo can pass-rush, but he can't play the run. He forgets the basics that he has to cover, contain, etc... He seems to always over-pursue. He is still just a pass-rush specialist until he can start putting himself in the right spot to make tackles.
#3 - Taylor is being tossed around. This isn't normal to see, but he is not eating multiple blockers and just isn't doing his job in the middle. I almost want to see him and Rubin switch for a game or 2 to see what happens.
#4 - D.Bryant/A.Bryant/Winn (whoever the 3rd lineman is at any given time) NONE of these guys are getting any pressure to the QB, and none of them are getting a strong push against the run. D.Bryant played hurt last week. A.Bryant is too small in a 3-man front. Winn has been getting pancaked like he works at iHop...
#5 - Dansby/Robertson/Kirksey - None of these guys are getting off blocks regularly against the run.
#6 - Gilbert - He is athletic enough to cover and prevent throws in man coverage, but he literally goes "full-Retard" when he is challenged deep.
#7 - Haden - He's been playing pretty soft. I'm not too worried, but he just seems a bit less aggressive than years past
#8 - Whitner - Who? Where's he been?
#9 - Skrine - He's been playing scrappy, and I like it. Poor guy has been getting OPI or illegal contact against him on almost every damn play yet still keeps scrapping to make the play. Actually, all of our DBs are getting abused consistently, yet no flags in their favor
My one positive about the defense... Tashaun Gipson. Literally, no complaints about him.
Too many problems on D to list... but I'll try...
You did more than try... well done...
Slight disagreement on Gipson for a couple reasons...
1. Lack if hitting in secondary.
Latest example was completion to Smith in front of him Sunday. He had no play on the ball so going low and hard was his only break-up possibility... possibly with a flip inducing hit. Instead he actually extended his arms essentially cushioning what the blow he delivered.
2. Great centerfielder, but...
He has not challenged a catch this year that I can recall. After looking at Smith's late catch to set up the winning FG, Gip may have been responsible for helping Haden over the top.
I think my 4-3 argument addresses a couple of the issues you cite... Billy Winn for one; Mingo for another... also should keep blockers off of our LBs better (emphasis on "should")...
Agree?
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
On offense...
1 - hmmm....
I seriously have no problems with the offense. Shanahan needs to lean how to call better plays when we have the lead, like when you have a 21-17 lead against a division rival with the ball in their territory... you HAVE to go for the jugular...
...but other than that these guys have all exceeded my expectations. Literally, every single one of these guys...
On offense...
1 - hmmm....
I seriously have no problems with the offense. Shanahan needs to lean how to call better plays when we have the lead, like when you have a 21-17 lead against a division rival with the ball in their territory... you HAVE to go for the jugular...
...but other than that these guys have all exceeded my expectations. Literally, every single one of these guys...
I'll add...
If you would've told me, after 3 weeks, we'd be ranked:
10th in the NFL in scoring OFFENSE
12th total yards
10th in rushing yards
T-1st in rushing TDs
16th in passing yards
11th in yards/play
T-1st in rushing plays 20+ yards
T-12th in passing plays 20+ yards
And, Brian Hoyer would be 61-95 (64.2%) for 716 Yds, 3 TDs and 0 INTs with a 97.5 QB Rating
I would've called you a liar...
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Too many problems on D to list... but I'll try...
You did more than try... well done...
Slight disagreement on Gipson for a couple reasons...
1. Lack if hitting in secondary.
Latest example was completion to Smith in front of him Sunday. He had no play on the ball so going low and hard was his only break-up possibility... possibly with a flip inducing hit. Instead he actually extended his arms essentially cushioning what the blow he delivered.
2. Great centerfielder, but...
He has not challenged a catch this year that I can recall. After looking at Smith's late catch to set up the winning FG, Gip may have been responsible for helping Haden over the top.
I think my 4-3 argument addresses a couple of the issues you cite... Billy Winn for one; Mingo for another... also should keep blockers off of our LBs better (emphasis on "should")...
Agree?
I think my 4-3 argument addresses a couple of the issues you cite... Billy Winn for one; Mingo for another... also should keep blockers off of our LBs better (emphasis on "should")...
Agree?
One question: Who plays OLB if we run 4-3? Kirksey and Robertson? If so, I'd imagine it would look like this:
Sheard/Rubin/Taylor/Kruger
Kirksey/Dansby/Robertson
Haden/Gipson/Whitner/Gilbert
My only question would be taking D.Bryant off the field for a guy as small as Kirksey. Or, do you see Mingo as a OLB in a 4-3 ala Bruce Irvin in Seattle?
We have plenty of D-line depth to do something like this, but I doubt we have enough LBs as most of ours would become DEs...
#Justsayin' -
I think my 4-3 argument addresses a couple of the issues you cite... Billy Winn for one; Mingo for another... also should keep blockers off of our LBs better (emphasis on "should")...
Agree?
One question: Who plays OLB if we run 4-3? Kirksey and Robertson? If so, I'd imagine it would look like this:
Sheard/Rubin/Taylor/Kruger
Kirksey/Dansby/Robertson
Haden/Gipson/Whitner/Gilbert
My only question would be taking D.Bryant off the field for a guy as small as Kirksey. Or, do you see Mingo as a OLB in a 4-3 ala Bruce Irvin in Seattle?
We have plenty of D-line depth to do something like this, but I doubt we have enough LBs as most of ours would become DEs...
One question: Who plays OLB if we run 4-3?
We have plenty of D-line depth to do something like this, but I doubt we have enough LBs as most of ours would become DEs...
Put Sheard and Kruger back as your early down DEs. Substiute Armonty and Mingo as your pass rush DEs. Use Des Bryant as your swingman
Ditto Taylor/ Hughes/ Kitchen as early DTs and Winn/ Rubin as Pass down DTs.
Put Dansby in the middle flanked by Robertson and Kirksey and let 'er rip...
Draft LBs like crazy in 2015...
Above should answer your first question.
Yes, thin at LB... but sticking too a 3-4 because we are too thin at LB seems brain-fryingly paradoxical.
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I think my 4-3 argument addresses a couple of the issues you cite... Billy Winn for one; Mingo for another... also should keep blockers off of our LBs better (emphasis on "should")...
Agree?
One question: Who plays OLB if we run 4-3? Kirksey and Robertson? If so, I'd imagine it would look like this:
Sheard/Rubin/Taylor/Kruger
Kirksey/Dansby/Robertson
Haden/Gipson/Whitner/Gilbert
My only question would be taking D.Bryant off the field for a guy as small as Kirksey. Or, do you see Mingo as a OLB in a 4-3 ala Bruce Irvin in Seattle?
We have plenty of D-line depth to do something like this, but I doubt we have enough LBs as most of ours would become DEs...
One question: Who plays OLB if we run 4-3? Kirksey and Robertson? If so, I'd imagine it would look like this:
Sheard/Rubin/Taylor/Kruger
Kirksey/Dansby/Robertson
Haden/Gipson/Whitner/Gilbert
My only question would be taking D.Bryant off the field for a guy as small as Kirksey. Or, do you see Mingo as a OLB in a 4-3 ala Bruce Irvin in Seattle?
We have plenty of D-line depth to do something like this, but I doubt we have enough LBs as most of ours would become DEs...
Irvin and Von are used in similar ways that they play LOLB in base packages and replace the LE in pass rushing situations. Again, people need to not get so hung up on '43' or '34'. You can give a lot of different looks by simple placement slides with similar personnel.
The only real reason I wanted to see a 4 down look would be to help this team better defend the c gap runs and not give up the cutback lane so much. As it stands in that double eagle
Look, you have 3 big body's that have to move a long way down the line.
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Do not start Haden. That doesn't mean don't play him. Just don't start him. He has been soft so far this year, and I think his big payday has gone to his head, and needs a reality check. He should be ashamed for letting himself get owned by old ass Steve Smith. He is past his prime and on the back 9 of his career!
Do not start Haden. That doesn't mean don't play him. Just don't start him. He has been soft so far this year, and I think his big payday has gone to his head, and needs a reality check. He should be ashamed for letting himself get owned by old ass Steve Smith. He is past his prime and on the back 9 of his career!
Steve smith owns nearly everyone he faces.
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Do not start Haden. That doesn't mean don't play him. Just don't start him. He has been soft so far this year, and I think his big payday has gone to his head, and needs a reality check. He should be ashamed for letting himself get owned by old ass Steve Smith. He is past his prime and on the back 9 of his career!
Let's be honest, its hard for any DB to cover when WR's are allowed to get away with pushing off THAT much. I mean, it wasn't even a subtle, veteran type crafty move. It was Smitty basically giving DB's the forearm shiver.
As for fixes? I'd like this defense to play in reverse. I'd like to see 4 down looks on 1st and 2nd. Let me explain my reasoning. The Dline struggles to get pressure, more specifically, Sheard and Kruger do, when their hands aren't in the ground. Which is why play action has been effective for opposing offenses on early down. On top of that, the interior line struggles to flow laterally. I don't believe these lineman are meant to play 2 gap assignments or to just tie up space in the middle. Big Phil is a one gap player with a big wing span. Go back to his tape all the way at Baylor. He greatest successes come from using his long arms and strengths in between the guards. Rubin? He's pretty much ineffective at either position AFAIC. However this will allow Hughes, Winn and Kitchen more time in the rotation. Something along the lines of - Sheard Taylor Hughes Armonty with your backers being Kruger, Dansby, Roberston. Then you can sub in Mingo for your pass rush. This will give you the beef to stop the early down runs, stop allowing RB's to go off tackle and gives Mingo the ability to do what he really only can do, rush the passer. He's a liability at this point on the edge in run support. He just doesn't have the size. I propose using him the same way Denver uses Von Miller. Protect him on early downs, then let him get after the QB on 2nd and 3rd. Now that's not to assume you can't play a one gap 3-4 look - as you obviously can. However something must be done schematically to help this dline against the run because as of right now, the talent isn't getting it done.
Then on 3rd you can go back to your nickel package with whomever you'd like at the 9 tech/hand in the ground/standing up/whatever. Fact is, Pettine's defenses call for good OLB's that can be effective without having their hands in the ground. We have 3 OLB's, one of them a 1st rounder the other we spent good money on, that can only half perform these roles. And unless Suggs circa early 2000's walks through the front office doors, that wont be changing anytime soon. I'd also like to point out, I'm still a huge proponent against Winn gaining that weight. The kid was so effective around his 280-285 body type. Nearly 300 pounds he just looks slow and lethargic.
I'd also like to point out, I'm still a huge proponent against Winn gaining that weight. The kid was so effective around his 280-285 body type. Nearly 300 pounds he just looks slow and lethargic.
Missed the point on Winn earlier... could not agree more.
His motor is at least stalled if not gone. Last year his assets inside were his quickness and energy. This year? What assets...
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Too many problems on D to list... but I'll try...
You did more than try... well done...
Slight disagreement on Gipson for a couple reasons...
1. Lack if hitting in secondary.
Latest example was completion to Smith in front of him Sunday. He had no play on the ball so going low and hard was his only break-up possibility... possibly with a flip inducing hit. Instead he actually extended his arms essentially cushioning what the blow he delivered.
2. Great centerfielder, but...
He has not challenged a catch this year that I can recall. After looking at Smith's late catch to set up the winning FG, Gip may have been responsible for helping Haden over the top.
I think my 4-3 argument addresses a couple of the issues you cite... Billy Winn for one; Mingo for another... also should keep blockers off of our LBs better (emphasis on "should")...
Agree?
Slight disagreement on Gipson for a couple reasons...
2. Great centerfielder, but...
He has not challenged a catch this year that I can recall. After looking at Smith's late catch to set up the winning FG, Gip may have been responsible for helping Haden over the top.
Got the above wrong...
Just saw a replay and it was Whitner that was late over the top. So if anyone had that assignment, it was him.
Sad thing is it was the kind of play I remember him making for SF, that made me smile when I heard we signed him. However, in SF it seemed he either picked those throws or broke up the pass with a big hit-ner.
Good thing he did not change his name...
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I forgot to add: start Kirksey over Robertson
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How about putting Justin Gilbert back to catch punts?
He was GREAT in college and Travis Benjamin is, by his own admission, scared to make a mistake
Plus it might give Gilbert some confidence in his ability
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Do not start Haden. That doesn't mean don't play him. Just don't start him. He has been soft so far this year, and I think his big payday has gone to his head, and needs a reality check. He should be ashamed for letting himself get owned by old ass Steve Smith. He is past his prime and on the back 9 of his career!
Do not start Haden. That doesn't mean don't play him. Just don't start him. He has been soft so far this year, and I think his big payday has gone to his head, and needs a reality check. He should be ashamed for letting himself get owned by old ass Steve Smith. He is past his prime and on the back 9 of his career!
wow.
you know how many 5 star CBs steve smith has owned in his career? backend of his career yeah maybe but i bet if they played NE revis would be on him....seattle sherman would be on him. i saw (not the game) but the replay of the play that cost us the game and haden go beat with speed...barely. BUT whitner was right there with the backside help to knock him out of bounds.
teams win games on huge clutch/lucky catches and plays.
the first game we should have won if we had played for 60 fucking mintues. sunday we should have won for other reasons besides calling out one single player. we SHOULD be 3-0.
just shut the fuck up.
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"teams win games on huge clutch/lucky catches and plays"
they also lose games when our so-called elite cb gets burned
Haden gave up the losing TD last year against some scrub QB and a scrub Wr to JAX.
HADEN IS NOT AS GOOD AS YOU THINK
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On offense...
1 - hmmm....
I seriously have no problems with the offense. Shanahan needs to lean how to call better plays when we have the lead, like when you have a 21-17 lead against a division rival with the ball in their territory... you HAVE to go for the jugular...
...but other than that these guys have all exceeded my expectations. Literally, every single one of these guys...
On offense...
1 - hmmm....
I seriously have no problems with the offense. Shanahan needs to lean how to call better plays when we have the lead, like when you have a 21-17 lead against a division rival with the ball in their territory... you HAVE to go for the jugular...
...but other than that these guys have all exceeded my expectations. Literally, every single one of these guys...
I agree new I am very very impressed with how this offense has grown over the first three weeks.
Hoyer is looking better and better. He is becoming more comfortable and consistent. He made some fantastic throws and reads Sunday. He didn't leave a whole lot on the field and we can't expect him to make every play and be the catalyst to every win. That's simply unreasonable, unrealistic, and just plain Retarded.
The run game looks great as well. There is room for improvement but overall our O Line is growing into this zone blocking scheme nicely and our backs are simply the perfect match scheme wise. West has some incredible potential but if I'm being honest I'm even more excited about what Crowell is and can become down the line. He is such a punishing runner. He is a bit raw but my God when he takes that handoff he puts the helmet down and rockets straight up field, LOOKING for contact, being the aggressor. I'm so excited for our backfield now and in the future.
And to the trolls calling for Manziel? Just wow... Go fuck yourselves and eat a giant bag of dicks covered in moldy cheese... Hoyer has given us the best QB play we have seen since the return. I personally love everything about him, his attitude, his mental aptitude and toughness, and his drive to make this team something special. I'm proud to have him Quarterbacking my browns!
Now the defense... Good God where to start... There are so many issues as others have stated above...
The D line is just plain getting owned and blown off the ball on the majority of plays. I don't get it as I KNOW we have talented players at the position group.... The most bothersome thing to me is they will have a good play stopping a run for a short gain or in the backfield and then we either get burned by a play action pass or another run. Its like they forget what they did and how they played on the previous play that worked. Were constantly allowing the opposing offense to get back ahead in the down and distance battle or give up a first down period. It's painful.
The team needs to take a week and reevaluate our defensive talent and seriously consider some schematic changes. Its bad enough at this point that experimenting would be more beneficial than harmful.
Go Browns!
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Here's the start :
Pettine remained angry that the team had substitution issues and were twice called for having 12 men on the field on defense. He said had things been handled better on the sidelines, the team wouldn’t have had to burn timeouts.
Pettine had an “air it out” meeting with the staff Monday morning. With a coach who is as direct and honest as Pettine, that meeting might not have been the most pleasant.
http://espn.go.com/blog/cleveland-browns/post/_/id/8221/mike-pettines-frustration-at-loss-remains
Maybe he'll light the right fires.
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Yeah I am hoping Pettine shapes things up. I am sure watching the defense getting gashed is not sitting well with a defensively minded coach.
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I wonder how our Defensive performance correlates to who is calling the plays. For example, do we only suck when O'neil is calling the plays or is it just all the time?
I'm not too worried about Pettine or Shanahan. I worry about Tabor because our STs is playing very "boneheaded" this season thus far.
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I'm so tired of this idea so many Browns fans buy into this fabricated hype that we have a good defense. It's average at best.
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There's a tremendous difference between having an average defense with a coach like Pettine that has fielded elite squads. Or say a coach like Shurmur that honestly didn't give two shits so long as they didn't give up 40ppg and the offense completed those stupid rollouts on 3rd and short.
I like having a coach that wants/demands better and isn't afraid to get very vocal about it.
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