DL Depth Issue
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this has all been a ploy. i see it now (smirk)
we want everybody in the league to think we're soft across the board for the first half and in the second half of the season when they turn on all cylinders after waiting it out like the lakers used to do,
yep.
wait until gordon gets back.
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I presume, Gipper, you know that our DE's range from 285-320..? Sheard is 260 tops and by you asking him to move to DE that means sliding inside on passing downs. Which I have no issue with other than he won't hold the interior well of its a run play and Mingo won't hold the edge well either.
A DE doesn't have to be that big. And why would a DE slide inside. They are called an "end" for a reason. They play on the end, not inside. Yes, I understand that some players are versatile enough to play inside and outside. Sure, if you have JJ Watt or Reggie White you can do that. We don't quite have that kind of versatile player. Besides, as noted before, Fred Dean, Charles Haley....these guys were tall, slim pass rushers. Mingo could do that.
A DE doesn't have to be that big.
... Fred Dean, Charles Haley....these guys were tall, slim pass rushers. Mingo could do that.
No they don't, but Fred Dean was from a different era and Haley was not Mingo slim. Even Kevin Greene had to finish his career as an OLB.
If on the small side they need to be both quick and agile, like Dwight Freeney... who BTW is now an OLB in San Diego.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
can't understand the inability of the coaching staff to utilize each player on the DL/LB to their each unique skill.
both pettine and o'brien were in love with mingo and wanted to draft him in buffalo.......as what, a OLB who drops back in coverage?
doubt it.
can't understand the inability of the coaching staff to utilize each player on the DL/LB to their each unique skill.
both pettine and o'brien were in love with mingo and wanted to draft him in buffalo.......as what, a OLB who drops back in coverage?
doubt it.
It's possible Mingo's just a workout warrior bust. In terms of getting the most out of their players, apart from the two games where he had massive pain killing injections, Kruger has looked streets ahead of last year. 5 sacks already on the season. 2 only for Sheard who was supposed to be the ace in the hole of this D is more worrying.
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can't understand the inability of the coaching staff to utilize each player on the DL/LB to their each unique skill.
both pettine and o'brien were in love with mingo and wanted to draft him in buffalo.......as what, a OLB who drops back in coverage?
doubt it.
It's possible Mingo's just a workout warrior bust. In terms of getting the most out of their players, apart from the two games where he had massive pain killing injections, Kruger has looked streets ahead of last year. 5 sacks already on the season. 2 only for Sheard who was supposed to be the ace in the hole of this D is more worrying.
It's possible Mingo's just a workout warrior bust. In terms of getting the most out of their players, apart from the two games where he had massive pain killing injections, Kruger has looked streets ahead of last year. 5 sacks already on the season. 2 only for Sheard who was supposed to be the ace in the hole of this D is more worrying.
what is more troubling that our defense with better players (meh + - some positions) playing under a DC<HC looks worst on the field, than last year with some bum scrub flappy that coached the team but had basically the same perosnnel and had them ranked within the top ten.
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A DE doesn't have to be that big.
... Fred Dean, Charles Haley....these guys were tall, slim pass rushers. Mingo could do that.
No they don't, but Fred Dean was from a different era and Haley was not Mingo slim. Even Kevin Greene had to finish his career as an OLB.
If on the small side they need to be both quick and agile, like Dwight Freeney... who BTW is now an OLB in San Diego.
No they don't, but Fred Dean was from a different era and Haley was not Mingo slim. Even Kevin Greene had to finish his career as an OLB.
If on the small side they need to be both quick and agile, like Dwight Freeney... who BTW is now an OLB in San Diego.
The big difference here is not body type......it's that Dean, Haley and Greene could all tackle well.....they were finishers....lets face it, Mingo can rush and he can cover, but he canNOT tackle well or finish the play.....
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John Hughes out for at least 6 weeks, probably 8. On IR Designated to Return.
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Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly. Generally a product of two things,being inexperienced (which he is, and needs more reps on the edge) and trying to hard to make a play. If he reads his keys, plays fast and disciplined, good things will happen.
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No they don't, but Fred Dean was from a different era and Haley was not Mingo slim. Even Kevin Greene had to finish his career as an OLB.
If on the small side they need to be both quick and agile, like Dwight Freeney... who BTW is now an OLB in San Diego.
The big difference here is not body type......it's that Dean, Haley and Greene could all tackle well.....they were finishers....lets face it, Mingo can rush and he can cover, but he canNOT tackle well or finish the play.....
The big difference here is not body type......it's that Dean, Haley and Greene could all tackle well.....they were finishers....lets face it, Mingo can rush and he can cover, but he canNOT tackle well or finish the play.....
Well, I think he could be coached better to learn to tackle better. Tackling is very much a technique that should be able to be learned.
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John Hughes out for at least 6 weeks, probably 8. On IR Designated to Return.
John Hughes out for at least 6 weeks, probably 8. On IR Designated to Return.
Well, that leaves us 2 main DL cogs down: The Sausage King and Armonty Bryant.
We now have the following in the DL: Winn, Taylor, Rubin, Kitchen, D. Bryant, Fua Plus Jacobbi McDaniel still on the PS.
So...who is the Fua? A guy they picked up after Armonty Bryant went down? Does he bring anything to the table.
And what about the health situation of Taylor, Rubin, Winn. Didn't they each miss some time due to injury?
So, with all these DL gone, then the Browns are going to have to run more 3-4 if Sheard and Mingo are going to stay at the OLB slots.
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Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly. Generally a product of two things,being inexperienced (which he is, and needs more reps on the edge) and trying to hard to make a play. If he reads his keys, plays fast and disciplined, good things will happen.
Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly.
I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly.
I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
There was a pass down the center lane this last week that he was covering on and the TE? was bobbling the ball with one hand. Mingo was right over him and just ran past while watching the guy struggle to hold the ball. Mingo made no play on the receiver or ball. He just had to bump the guy and he would have dropped it. But instead he way over ran the play and seemed oblivious to the fact that he could disrupt the receiver.
Mad mad raw skills. But not an instinctive football player at heart. I pray they can teach him, but so far, dont see any measurable progress in the season and a half that he's played.
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Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly.
I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
His tape against Oregon and Clemson alone would indicate his lateral agility is pretty good.
I will point out the other thing he needs to work on his staying low around the edge. If he can't dip his hips as a standup backer, then he's lost a lot in his pass rush arsenal.
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I presume, Gipper, you know that our DE's range from 285-320..? Sheard is 260 tops and by you asking him to move to DE that means sliding inside on passing downs. Which I have no issue with other than he won't hold the interior well of its a run play and Mingo won't hold the edge well either.
A DE doesn't have to be that big. And why would a DE slide inside. They are called an "end" for a reason. They play on the end, not inside. Yes, I understand that some players are versatile enough to play inside and outside. Sure, if you have JJ Watt or Reggie White you can do that. We don't quite have that kind of versatile player. Besides, as noted before, Fred Dean, Charles Haley....these guys were tall, slim pass rushers. Mingo could do that.
In a 3-4 the DE has to be in JJ Watts range. Armonty is actually one of the smaller 34 DE's in football. But he's still in the 275-280
A DE doesn't have to be that big. And why would a DE slide inside. They are called an "end" for a reason. They play on the end, not inside. Yes, I understand that some players are versatile enough to play inside and outside. Sure, if you have JJ Watt or Reggie White you can do that. We don't quite have that kind of versatile player. Besides, as noted before, Fred Dean, Charles Haley....these guys were tall, slim pass rushers. Mingo could do that.
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I'd like to see us return to the ENT with the standup 9tech (Kruger) That means Sheard could return to having his hand in the ground at a more "traditional" DE look. He'd be the weakside DE and the SDE would most likely be Big Phil (when healthy) allowing Rub, Hughes and Kitchen at the Nose and Winn to sub for Phil.
edit: Mingo could sub in for Sheard while he slides inside on passing downs.
I'd like to see us return to the ENT with the standup 9tech (Kruger) That means Sheard could return to having his hand in the ground at a more "traditional" DE look. He'd be the weakside DE and the SDE would most likely be Big Phil (when healthy) allowing Rub, Hughes and Kitchen at the Nose and Winn to sub for Phil.
edit: Mingo could sub in for Sheard while he slides inside on passing downs.
Krugers done his best work this season with his hand in the ground. Really him and Sheard should never be on the field at the same time, they should sub in for each other to keep each other fresh. Why, cause our best defense comes with 3 DL and the two OLB'ers hovering at the edge with one putting his hand down when the defense smells pass. The problem with both of them on the field at the same time is a coverage issue. The way I "thought" they were gonna use Mingo is to stand him up on the weak side opposite the hybrids (Kruger/Sheard). That way if it is a pass he can delay blitz...if it's a run he's starting off the line so he can get separation better and isn't solely responsible for edge cause there's a DE on his side. What's been happening a lot though is we bring in 2 DL and stand up two OLB'ers on the edge. I hate that look. It nerfs our depth at DL and it allows OL to get off on the ILB'ers whom, imo, aren't capable of getting off blocks. Dansby and Kirk just aren't that strong...nor are they terribly fast either. So our OLB'ers do their job and set the edges, which they've done pretty well this year....but the inside lanes are just wide open. Not sure how far up they're bringing whitner but they may have to start bringing him up and playing him almost like a LB'er if we wanna stop getting shit on in the run game.
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I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
There was a pass down the center lane this last week that he was covering on and the TE? was bobbling the ball with one hand. Mingo was right over him and just ran past while watching the guy struggle to hold the ball. Mingo made no play on the receiver or ball. He just had to bump the guy and he would have dropped it. But instead he way over ran the play and seemed oblivious to the fact that he could disrupt the receiver.
Mad mad raw skills. But not an instinctive football player at heart. I pray they can teach him, but so far, dont see any measurable progress in the season and a half that he's played.
Yeah that play stuck out to me too. I had to rewind it a couple times. I have no idea what he was shooting for on that play. Looked completely lost on what should have been a highlight reel shot to the TE's lower back. The kind that snaps you face down into the grass and teammates have to help you pick sod out of your grill. I may be changing my opinion on Mingo here very soon.
There was a pass down the center lane this last week that he was covering on and the TE? was bobbling the ball with one hand. Mingo was right over him and just ran past while watching the guy struggle to hold the ball. Mingo made no play on the receiver or ball. He just had to bump the guy and he would have dropped it. But instead he way over ran the play and seemed oblivious to the fact that he could disrupt the receiver.
Mad mad raw skills. But not an instinctive football player at heart. I pray they can teach him, but so far, dont see any measurable progress in the season and a half that he's played.
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In a 3-4 the DE has to be in JJ Watts range. Armonty is actually one of the smaller 34 DE's in football. But he's still in the 275-280
A DE doesn't have to be that big. And why would a DE slide inside. They are called an "end" for a reason. They play on the end, not inside. Yes, I understand that some players are versatile enough to play inside and outside. Sure, if you have JJ Watt or Reggie White you can do that. We don't quite have that kind of versatile player. Besides, as noted before, Fred Dean, Charles Haley....these guys were tall, slim pass rushers. Mingo could do that.
In a 3-4 the DE has to be in JJ Watts range. Armonty is actually one of the smaller 34 DE's in football. But he's still in the 275-280
In essence what you are saying is that in a 3-4, what you have really are 3 Defensive Tackles and no DEs. The OLBs do the job of the typical DE.
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In a 3-4 the DE has to be in JJ Watts range. Armonty is actually one of the smaller 34 DE's in football. But he's still in the 275-280
In essence what you are saying is that in a 3-4, what you have really are 3 Defensive Tackles and no DEs. The OLBs do the job of the typical DE.
In essence what you are saying is that in a 3-4, what you have really are 3 Defensive Tackles and no DEs. The OLBs do the job of the typical DE.
Depends on what the coaches want, what the scheme and talent dictate.
Too many people far too often pigeon hole "3-4" and "4-3".
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