DL Depth Issue
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John Hughes out for at least 6 weeks, probably 8. On IR Designated to Return.
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Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly. Generally a product of two things,being inexperienced (which he is, and needs more reps on the edge) and trying to hard to make a play. If he reads his keys, plays fast and disciplined, good things will happen.
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No they don't, but Fred Dean was from a different era and Haley was not Mingo slim. Even Kevin Greene had to finish his career as an OLB.
If on the small side they need to be both quick and agile, like Dwight Freeney... who BTW is now an OLB in San Diego.
The big difference here is not body type......it's that Dean, Haley and Greene could all tackle well.....they were finishers....lets face it, Mingo can rush and he can cover, but he canNOT tackle well or finish the play.....
The big difference here is not body type......it's that Dean, Haley and Greene could all tackle well.....they were finishers....lets face it, Mingo can rush and he can cover, but he canNOT tackle well or finish the play.....
Well, I think he could be coached better to learn to tackle better. Tackling is very much a technique that should be able to be learned.
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John Hughes out for at least 6 weeks, probably 8. On IR Designated to Return.
John Hughes out for at least 6 weeks, probably 8. On IR Designated to Return.
Well, that leaves us 2 main DL cogs down: The Sausage King and Armonty Bryant.
We now have the following in the DL: Winn, Taylor, Rubin, Kitchen, D. Bryant, Fua Plus Jacobbi McDaniel still on the PS.
So...who is the Fua? A guy they picked up after Armonty Bryant went down? Does he bring anything to the table.
And what about the health situation of Taylor, Rubin, Winn. Didn't they each miss some time due to injury?
So, with all these DL gone, then the Browns are going to have to run more 3-4 if Sheard and Mingo are going to stay at the OLB slots.
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Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly. Generally a product of two things,being inexperienced (which he is, and needs more reps on the edge) and trying to hard to make a play. If he reads his keys, plays fast and disciplined, good things will happen.
Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly.
I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
"When you have a shared vision it is a lot easier to make unpopular decisions." - Paul DePodesta "When you win, say nothing. When you lose, say less." - Paul Brown Complete 2017 Browns Board Mock: http://thebrownsboard.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=46196 -
Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly.
I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
There was a pass down the center lane this last week that he was covering on and the TE? was bobbling the ball with one hand. Mingo was right over him and just ran past while watching the guy struggle to hold the ball. Mingo made no play on the receiver or ball. He just had to bump the guy and he would have dropped it. But instead he way over ran the play and seemed oblivious to the fact that he could disrupt the receiver.
Mad mad raw skills. But not an instinctive football player at heart. I pray they can teach him, but so far, dont see any measurable progress in the season and a half that he's played.
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Mingo's big issue is body control. He's so fast off the ball and runs a bit high that he arrives at the QB and/or ball carrier recklessly.
I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
His tape against Oregon and Clemson alone would indicate his lateral agility is pretty good.
I will point out the other thing he needs to work on his staying low around the edge. If he can't dip his hips as a standup backer, then he's lost a lot in his pass rush arsenal.
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I presume, Gipper, you know that our DE's range from 285-320..? Sheard is 260 tops and by you asking him to move to DE that means sliding inside on passing downs. Which I have no issue with other than he won't hold the interior well of its a run play and Mingo won't hold the edge well either.
A DE doesn't have to be that big. And why would a DE slide inside. They are called an "end" for a reason. They play on the end, not inside. Yes, I understand that some players are versatile enough to play inside and outside. Sure, if you have JJ Watt or Reggie White you can do that. We don't quite have that kind of versatile player. Besides, as noted before, Fred Dean, Charles Haley....these guys were tall, slim pass rushers. Mingo could do that.
In a 3-4 the DE has to be in JJ Watts range. Armonty is actually one of the smaller 34 DE's in football. But he's still in the 275-280
A DE doesn't have to be that big. And why would a DE slide inside. They are called an "end" for a reason. They play on the end, not inside. Yes, I understand that some players are versatile enough to play inside and outside. Sure, if you have JJ Watt or Reggie White you can do that. We don't quite have that kind of versatile player. Besides, as noted before, Fred Dean, Charles Haley....these guys were tall, slim pass rushers. Mingo could do that.
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I'd like to see us return to the ENT with the standup 9tech (Kruger) That means Sheard could return to having his hand in the ground at a more "traditional" DE look. He'd be the weakside DE and the SDE would most likely be Big Phil (when healthy) allowing Rub, Hughes and Kitchen at the Nose and Winn to sub for Phil.
edit: Mingo could sub in for Sheard while he slides inside on passing downs.
I'd like to see us return to the ENT with the standup 9tech (Kruger) That means Sheard could return to having his hand in the ground at a more "traditional" DE look. He'd be the weakside DE and the SDE would most likely be Big Phil (when healthy) allowing Rub, Hughes and Kitchen at the Nose and Winn to sub for Phil.
edit: Mingo could sub in for Sheard while he slides inside on passing downs.
Krugers done his best work this season with his hand in the ground. Really him and Sheard should never be on the field at the same time, they should sub in for each other to keep each other fresh. Why, cause our best defense comes with 3 DL and the two OLB'ers hovering at the edge with one putting his hand down when the defense smells pass. The problem with both of them on the field at the same time is a coverage issue. The way I "thought" they were gonna use Mingo is to stand him up on the weak side opposite the hybrids (Kruger/Sheard). That way if it is a pass he can delay blitz...if it's a run he's starting off the line so he can get separation better and isn't solely responsible for edge cause there's a DE on his side. What's been happening a lot though is we bring in 2 DL and stand up two OLB'ers on the edge. I hate that look. It nerfs our depth at DL and it allows OL to get off on the ILB'ers whom, imo, aren't capable of getting off blocks. Dansby and Kirk just aren't that strong...nor are they terribly fast either. So our OLB'ers do their job and set the edges, which they've done pretty well this year....but the inside lanes are just wide open. Not sure how far up they're bringing whitner but they may have to start bringing him up and playing him almost like a LB'er if we wanna stop getting shit on in the run game.
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I hope you are right. I hope Mingo is lacking a learnable skill.
But I fear it's a deeper issue. I fear it's a case of innate straight-line speed without innate agility.
There was a pass down the center lane this last week that he was covering on and the TE? was bobbling the ball with one hand. Mingo was right over him and just ran past while watching the guy struggle to hold the ball. Mingo made no play on the receiver or ball. He just had to bump the guy and he would have dropped it. But instead he way over ran the play and seemed oblivious to the fact that he could disrupt the receiver.
Mad mad raw skills. But not an instinctive football player at heart. I pray they can teach him, but so far, dont see any measurable progress in the season and a half that he's played.
Yeah that play stuck out to me too. I had to rewind it a couple times. I have no idea what he was shooting for on that play. Looked completely lost on what should have been a highlight reel shot to the TE's lower back. The kind that snaps you face down into the grass and teammates have to help you pick sod out of your grill. I may be changing my opinion on Mingo here very soon.
There was a pass down the center lane this last week that he was covering on and the TE? was bobbling the ball with one hand. Mingo was right over him and just ran past while watching the guy struggle to hold the ball. Mingo made no play on the receiver or ball. He just had to bump the guy and he would have dropped it. But instead he way over ran the play and seemed oblivious to the fact that he could disrupt the receiver.
Mad mad raw skills. But not an instinctive football player at heart. I pray they can teach him, but so far, dont see any measurable progress in the season and a half that he's played.
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In a 3-4 the DE has to be in JJ Watts range. Armonty is actually one of the smaller 34 DE's in football. But he's still in the 275-280
A DE doesn't have to be that big. And why would a DE slide inside. They are called an "end" for a reason. They play on the end, not inside. Yes, I understand that some players are versatile enough to play inside and outside. Sure, if you have JJ Watt or Reggie White you can do that. We don't quite have that kind of versatile player. Besides, as noted before, Fred Dean, Charles Haley....these guys were tall, slim pass rushers. Mingo could do that.
In a 3-4 the DE has to be in JJ Watts range. Armonty is actually one of the smaller 34 DE's in football. But he's still in the 275-280
In essence what you are saying is that in a 3-4, what you have really are 3 Defensive Tackles and no DEs. The OLBs do the job of the typical DE.
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In a 3-4 the DE has to be in JJ Watts range. Armonty is actually one of the smaller 34 DE's in football. But he's still in the 275-280
In essence what you are saying is that in a 3-4, what you have really are 3 Defensive Tackles and no DEs. The OLBs do the job of the typical DE.
In essence what you are saying is that in a 3-4, what you have really are 3 Defensive Tackles and no DEs. The OLBs do the job of the typical DE.
Depends on what the coaches want, what the scheme and talent dictate.
Too many people far too often pigeon hole "3-4" and "4-3".
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The 3 4 is the base defense generally used in 1st and 2nd down situations. This defense looks like a 5 man front with a nt and two de's with hands in the dirt. The two olbs are standing at the line of scrimage and either rushing or covering. this is the defensive formation we generally get gashed for in the run game. however, last week they showed a huge improvement in the defense and i believe rubin had his best game. My favorite formation theyve run is the wide 9 nickle. This seems to be the one in 3rd and long where they are getting the most heat. This past week we saw leonard in this formation as the nickel cover and youll know what it looks like by its four man front spread out wide in the 9 technique.
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The 3 4 is the base defense generally used in 1st and 2nd down situations. This defense looks like a 5 man front with a nt and two de's with hands in the dirt. The two olbs are standing at the line of scrimage and either rushing or covering. this is the defensive formation we generally get gashed for in the run game. however, last week they showed a huge improvement in the defense and i believe rubin had his best game. My favorite formation theyve run is the wide 9 nickle. This seems to be the one in 3rd and long where they are getting the most heat. This past week we saw leonard in this formation as the nickel cover and youll know what it looks like by its four man front spread out wide in the 9 technique.
The 3 4 is the base defense generally used in 1st and 2nd down situations. This defense looks like a 5 man front with a nt and two de's with hands in the dirt. The two olbs are standing at the line of scrimage and either rushing or covering. this is the defensive formation we generally get gashed for in the run game. however, last week they showed a huge improvement in the defense and i believe rubin had his best game. My favorite formation theyve run is the wide 9 nickle. This seems to be the one in 3rd and long where they are getting the most heat. This past week we saw leonard in this formation as the nickel cover and youll know what it looks like by its four man front spread out wide in the 9 technique.
Actually that'd be more of a dime package because Leonard comes in as a 3rd safety but mans something of robber linebacker spot.
The times this front gets consistent pressure are when hands are in the ground. Watching Sheard standing is painful, watching him in space trying to cover is more painful. Personnel needs an upgrade or the coaching
staff needs to adjust their philosophy.
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especially because sheard was such a beast last year playing in a different scheme. that's why i always bring up mingo and sheard when i talk about this defense. they should be pass rushing DEs period. a year wasted on these guys trying to fit their round pegs into a square hole type-of-thing really pisses me off and prob does them as well. one or both will walk when given the chance and turn into something great because of coaching staff just can't let these guys play.
i think a lot of DCs that would love to have some of these guys on their squad.
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especially because sheard was such a beast last year playing in a different scheme. that's why i always bring up mingo and sheard when i talk about this defense. they should be pass rushing DEs period. a year wasted on these guys trying to fit their round pegs into a square hole type-of-thing really pisses me off and prob does them as well. one or both will walk when given the chance and turn into something great because of coaching staff just can't let these guys play.
i think a lot of DCs that would love to have some of these guys on their squad.
especially because sheard was such a beast last year playing in a different scheme. that's why i always bring up mingo and sheard when i talk about this defense. they should be pass rushing DEs period. a year wasted on these guys trying to fit their round pegs into a square hole type-of-thing really pisses me off and prob does them as well. one or both will walk when given the chance and turn into something great because of coaching staff just can't let these guys play.
i think a lot of DCs that would love to have some of these guys on their squad.
This has been my mantra on sheard all along......he was really good at DE.
As a DE in 2011-12 , he had 110 tackles and 15.5 sacks and was still improving.
But, since the switch to LB last year, he has only 62 tackles and 7.5 sacks and looks a bit lost
LB's should have a LOT more tackles than DE's, correct? The difference in production is huge.
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i wish i knew why you would take a hands in the dirt DE and switch them to a LB who has to cover. i mean that's why you draft LBs.
makes no friggin sense to me.
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i wish i knew why you would take a hands in the dirt DE and switch them to a LB who has to cover. i mean that's why you draft LBs.
makes no friggin sense to me.
i wish i knew why you would take a hands in the dirt DE and switch them to a LB who has to cover. i mean that's why you draft LBs.
makes no friggin sense to me.
I've told you specifically before
The pass rush in a 4-3 comes from the DEs; the pass rush in the 3-4 comes from the OLBs. Sheard/Kruger/Mingo are pass rushers, so in a 3-4, Sheard moves to OLB (and Mingo, who was a DE in college). -
i wish i knew why you would take a hands in the dirt DE and switch them to a LB who has to cover. i mean that's why you draft LBs.
makes no friggin sense to me.
I've told you specifically before
The pass rush in a 4-3 comes from the DEs; the pass rush in the 3-4 comes from the OLBs. Sheard/Kruger/Mingo are pass rushers, so in a 3-4, Sheard moves to OLB (and Mingo, who was a DE in college).I've told you specifically before
The pass rush in a 4-3 comes from the DEs; the pass rush in the 3-4 comes from the OLBs. Sheard/Kruger/Mingo are pass rushers, so in a 3-4, Sheard moves to OLB (and Mingo, who was a DE in college).i know chris and i appreciate it but in the 'new era' of the NFL there are no rules to define a O or D scheme.
we now have hybrids. why do you draft a QB? to play TE? no, correct? so why would you draft a DE to be a LB? and why as a supposed DC guru do you come to a new team as HC, look at the player's stats from last year, see their strengths and weaknesses and plug them into the negative?
just askin.
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