DA to Lions Gaining Speed as well

[Masters]

@wpb-dawg-fan said:

Let's put it this way...

If you think Stafford and DA are close to interchangeable...but DA is cheaper...then you have to look at the value of what you can get with the #1 pick vs what you could get with the #33 pick.

At #1 you can get the TOP LT. At #20 you get the 4th, and #33 gets you the 5th best OT.

At #20 you can get one of the top OLB/DE/WR/ILB or the top TE.

So, if you really believe that DA=Stafford (on the cheap), you would be losing massive amounts of talent at the other positions if you did draft Stafford.

You can throw in the financials of what DET will have to pay out in signing bonus money to 2 1st rounders and a high 2nd rounder.

[YtownBrownsBacker]

I'll take #65 if they pay the $5 mil bonus. I'd take #33 if we pay the bonus.

[JewDago]

@wpb-dawg-fan said:

Let's put it this way...

If you think Stafford and DA are close to interchangeable...but DA is cheaper...then you have to look at the value of what you can get with the #1 pick vs what you could get with the #33 pick.

At #1 you can get the TOP LT. At #20 you get the 4th, and #33 gets you the 5th best OT.

At #20 you can get one of the top OLB/DE/WR/ILB or the top TE.

So, if you really believe that DA=Stafford (on the cheap), you would be losing massive amounts of talent at the other positions if you did draft Stafford.

it's a great argument. let's hope they see it that way, too, and think that stafford and DA are the same guy.

[onefellswoop7]

@ytownbrownsbacker said:

I'll take #65 if they pay the $5 mil bonus. I'd take #33 if we pay the bonus.

I seriously don't see any team paying the 5 mil. We're backed up against a wall and other teams have the leverage in terms of this bonus. They will just wait until we are forced to pay it since cutting him would do us no good.

#33 is a bit high for DA in my mind but #65 is far too low. You can;t afford to pay what is essentially 3 1st round picks if you're DET. QB is a risky position even with the #1 pick. The draft is NOT stacked and FAs are few. DET could make major steps and solve some financial issues by going a route like this...

[Rooster Dick]

The last things the lions need is another awful QB. -- But we'll take the draft picks!

[Oldcrow1945]

At #65 you could pick up a center like Jonathan Luigs or Antoine Caldwell. That would be a steal for DA.

Man, this seems to be a deep draft.

[AdaM]

oldcow1945 said:

At #65 you could pick up a center like Jonathan Luigs or Antoine Caldwell. That would be a steal for DA.

Man, this seems to be a deep draft.

The league probably wouldnt even allow the trade because they would like to see the lions improve.

[Kosar_For_President]

Well there is no more Matt Millen, so they might 1) do something smart 2) not draft another WR. I could swear Matt Millen has down syndrome.

I could see their second rounder coming to us and we give them DA and a 5th or something like that. Or our 2nd round and DA for the #20th. Not to sure on the lower part of the draft.

[osusev]

Yes this is SOOOO logical... 3 mediocre to bad games against poor defenses is enough to bet our entire franchise on when BQ is being paid backup money so financially the total investment in our qb position is well within normal yearly budgets.....

That makes SOOOO much logical sense. lets not have a backup plan when we have another 26 year old who did win 10 games and has thrown 29 tds in a season already under contract.

Makes SOOO much logical sense. Lets take our qb roster down to just 1 guy so we can negotiate from a position of weakness for other backup qbs.... New coach and GM want to bet it all on a high draft pick and 3 games.......

Yes for all of you hot to trade DA for some unknown reason must be extroadinary gamblers and investors.

[WPB Dawg Fan]

@osusev said:

Yes this is SOOOO logical... 3 mediocre to bad games against poor defenses is enough to bet our entire franchise on when BQ is being paid backup money so financially the total investment in our qb position is well within normal yearly budgets.....

That makes SOOOO much logical sense. lets not have a backup plan when we have another 26 year old who did win 10 games and has thrown 29 tds in a season already under contract.

Makes SOOO much logical sense. Lets take our qb roster down to just 1 guy so we can negotiate from a position of weakness for other backup qbs.... New coach and GM want to bet it all on a high draft pick and 3 games.......

Yes for all of you hot to trade DA for some unknown reason must be extroadinary gamblers and investors.

Ummm, in case you haven't noticed...we are quoting RELIABLE SOURCES that these discussions are going on.

We are no longer just speculating.

So, despite your decree that it makes no sense....if there is smoke...

[Masters]

@osusev said:

Yes this is SOOOO logical... 3 mediocre to bad games against poor defenses is enough to bet our entire franchise on when BQ is being paid backup money so financially the total investment in our qb position is well within normal yearly budgets.....

That makes SOOOO much logical sense. lets not have a backup plan when we have another 26 year old who did win 10 games and has thrown 29 tds in a season already under contract.

Makes SOOO much logical sense. Lets take our qb roster down to just 1 guy so we can negotiate from a position of weakness for other backup qbs.... New coach and GM want to bet it all on a high draft pick and 3 games.......

Yes for all of you hot to trade DA for some unknown reason must be extroadinary gamblers and investors.

There are plenty of FA QBs on the market that can give CLE what they got from DA over his last 16 starts. Shit, they can go sign Frye and get a QB with a 72 QBR over his last 16 starts. I just hope some GM around the league thinks 29 TDs in a season while ignoring the majorty came in his 1st 8 starts that year.

[AdaM]

Masters said:

There are plenty of FA QBs on the market that can give CLE what they got from DA over his last 16 starts. Shit, they can go sign Frye and get a QB with a 72 QBR over his last 16 starts. I just hope some GM around the league thinks 29 TDs in a season while ignoring the majorty came in his 1st 8 starts that year.

Are you saying DA gave us "shit"? Or are you saying.... Shit! they can resign Frye and get the same thing!

Because you're right on both accounts, still curious.

[NebBrownsFan]

@osusev said:

Yes this is SOOOO logical... 3 mediocre to bad games against poor defenses is enough to bet our entire franchise on when BQ is being paid backup money so financially the total investment in our qb position is well within normal yearly budgets.....

That makes SOOOO much logical sense. lets not have a backup plan when we have another 26 year old who did win 10 games and has thrown 29 tds in a season already under contract.

Makes SOOO much logical sense. Lets take our qb roster down to just 1 guy so we can negotiate from a position of weakness for other backup qbs.... New coach and GM want to bet it all on a high draft pick and 3 games.......

Yes for all of you hot to trade DA for some unknown reason must be extroadinary gamblers and investors.

So, having a rating over 100, on 1 or 2 days of practice, is mediocre? If you want mediocre performances, just look at MOST of DA's games. You spout off about his 29 TDs, but go look at the defensive ratings of the teams he got most of those TDs against. That's assuming you can take yourself off DA's knob long enough to research that.

[Masters]

AdaM said:

Are you saying DA gave us "shit"? Or are you saying.... Shit! they can resign Frye and get the same thing!

Because you're right on both accounts, still curious.

I was saying they can resign Frye and get the same thing, at least over the last 16 starts.

[Geech]

I'd give up the 33rd pick in the Draft for a starting QB in a heartbeat...and so would you.

The question is whether or not DET thinks of DA as a starter or just someone who will come in and compete for the job. If I thought of DA as a starter, which I don't, it would make much more sense for me to give up the 33rd pick and not have to deal with $30+ million guaranteed on some rookie in this year's Draft.

Plus, as others have already stated, I could get a bookend OT at #1 and a solid starter at another position with the #20 pick.

-Al

[ballpeen]

@inspecta said:

Yeah that 33 pick would be a homerun slam dunk hail mary TD extravaganza for the Browns FO.

We could make some serious headway in making our team contenders for next year.

Seems high to me.....switching 2nd rounders and us gaining the 3rd rounder would be more like it.

[Oldcrow1945]

@geech said:

I'd give up the 33rd pick in the Draft for a starting QB in a heartbeat...and so would you.

One of the things to remember is the Lions offensive coordinator who is very much a rush oriented guy. He'll focus a lot on the running game. This is also why I think the Lions are not going Qb with their first pick.

I wouldn't give up my 33rd pick unless I had no doubt that he was going to give me several years of really solid play.

As in a case of a guy that had been playing three to five years and while he was solid, he was nothing spectacular either. An example I'm thinking of would be a Drew Bledsoe type of case where he may have lost his job because he got hurt and the guy that replaced him was too good to allow Bledsoe to be a starter again. Not that case specifically, but I hope you get my point.

In DA's case I think there would have to be tons of doubt. The guy only started one year, and while he had great numbers that one year, he was so bad the following year that the Browns benched him. There just isn't much to hang your hat on there with DA.....And for the 33rd best player in college football? Wow....That would be a huge gamble.

In the second round there's a chance they could pick up Josh Freeman or even Nate Davis in the third. The Lions are rebuilding so why not go with Orlovsky this year and build around a Freeman or Davis in the nest two drafts while he sits and waits and learns?

If I were the Lions I wouldn't give away one of my many picks. Man, they could pick up 8 quality players in the next two drafts!

Schwartz has placed himself in a good situation in Detroit....I just wish he was in Cleveland!

[PlaygroundLegend]

The real question, is... once we trade away DA's sorry ass to Detroit for potetially a low first rounder.....

Who do we pick... becuase I could see us potentially scoring Maualuga and Curry... Thats would be rediculous no?

[WPB Dawg Fan]

And the door opens a little wider in Detroit...

KITNA TO BE CUT SOON

Posted by Mike Florio on February 20, 2009, 6:53 a.m.

The quarterback who sports a constant crew cut soon will be taking an involuntary haircut.

Tom Kowalski of Mlive.com reports that the Lions will be releasing quarterback Jon Kitna.

The team owes Kitna a $1 million roster bonus shortly after the start of the new league year. To avoid paying it, the team will cut him loose.

In the interim, the team is trying to generate a trade market for the 36-year-old quarterback.

Unfortunately, there will be plenty of age-challenged quarterbacks available in free agency; there’s simply no reason to trade for one.

Kitna also is due to earn a base salary of $1.95 million in 2009, the final year of his contract with the team.

So now they have resigned Culpepper to a contract (it wiped out the $2.5m bonus due in March) that basically will allow them to cut him before the draft without a cap hit...and are clearing another $2.95 in cap by dumping Kitna.

They have Drew Stanton and Drew Henson still on the books...(Henson is due $535k and FA in '10, Stanton is due $525k and FA in '11, neither have ANY experience).

[WPB Dawg Fan]

I had mentioned before the UNDERCLASSMAN QB thing...so here is an article from John Clayton talking all about it:

NFL teams wary of undergrad QBs

The top four-rated QBs this spring are skipping their senior collegiate seasons. History tells NFL teams to be wary of early-entry QB draft candidates, John Clayton writes.

INDIANAPOLIS -- The fascinating part of the 2009 NFL draft isn't just that the four top-rated quarterbacks are underclassmen. The fascinating part will be how quickly the NFL can accept four quarterbacks who skipped their senior seasons.

Judging college quarterbacks is harder than ever. The spread offense totally has changed the college game. Thanks to the spread, quarterbacks operate out of shotgun formation. They complete higher percentage passes to a more diverse group of receivers. Completion percentage is as much a byproduct of the scheme as it is the quarterback, because there aren't enough good corners to line up on the pass-catchers.

Most scouts agree there isn't a Matt Ryan in the 2009 draft, but many of those scouts downgraded him in the 2008 selection because his completion percentage dropped from 61.6 to 59.3 during his senior year. They failed to recognize the Boston College receiving crew simply wasn't good enough.

Ryan ended up winning 11 games as the Atlanta Falcons' rookie starter. He seems like the best quarterback prospect to come into the league since Peyton Manning in 1998.

Matthew Stafford of Georgia, Mark Sanchez of USC, Josh Freeman of Kansas State and Nate Davis of Ball State are the top quarterbacks being evaluated at the scouting combine that started this week in Indianapolis. The list of draft failures of quarterbacks who skipped their senior seasons is long and expensive.

Ryan Leaf heads the list. He was all-world coming out of Washington State, appearing to be another John Elway. His immaturity and unwillingness to adapt cost the San Diego Chargers millions, and sent fear into every franchise considering drafting a quarterback who didn't stay to play a senior season.

Tim Couch, Heath Shuler, Tommy Maddox and Andre Ware are just a few more of the names that send chills down scouts' spines as they contemplate Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman and Davis.

Davis, Freeman, SanchezIcon SMIBall State's Nate Davis (left), Kansas State's Josh Freeman (center) and USC's Mark Sanchez (right) hope to show NFL teams they have nothing to fear when investing in early-entry QBs.

The league was spoiled for a few years because there once was a trend among quarterbacks to play four collegiate seasons. Peyton Manning did it. His brother, Eli Manning, stayed. So did Philip Rivers, Drew Brees, Donovan McNabb, Carson Palmer and so many others.

Their loyalty and maturity made decision-making a little easier. Those quarterbacks who stay for a senior year polish their games. Their completion percentage improves dramatically, and NFL franchises aren't rushed into judgment. General managers set their scouts' agendas during the summer, and if they need quarterbacks they have a full fall to evaluate games, do proper interviewing and psychological testing. The NFL teams can watch the best quarterback prospects play against future pros in the East-West Shrine Game or the Senior Bowl.

Evaluating underclassmen is like cramming for a final in college. Underclassmen don't declare for the draft until mid-January. Then the clock starts. Scouts who were focused on seniors have to go back and study the tape on underclassmen entering the draft.

Teams have three months to make the most difficult decision a franchise must make. The ultimate success of a team is dependent on the play of its quarterback.

Thanks to the spread offense and the success of Ryan and Baltimore Ravens starter Joe Flacco as rookies, conventional wisdom is thrown out the window. The easiest transition was having the first-round quarterback sit during his rookie season. Carson Palmer and Steve McNair were success stories from franchises that resisted the temptation to rush prospects who entered the league as the highest-paid players on their team. Try talking an owner into investing a $60 million contract on a rookie who's going to carry a clipboard. It isn't easy.

Ryan and Flacco's successes threw organizational patience out the window. They led their teams to the playoffs as rookies, and under first-year head coaches, at that. Once again, the pressure will be on to rush quarterbacks into service.

The college success of the spread offense also made an easy evaluating tool less relevant. For years, teams looked back at the success and failures of college quarterbacks and found completion percentage a big factor. Teams broke down the final two college seasons of the quarterback and found that a combined 59 percent completion figure was a good guideline for study. The final two years were critical, because quarterbacks who play as freshmen and sophomores have skewed stats.

For a while, the combined 59 percent completion figure during the final two college seasons was like a Mendoza line. Those above that mark were successes. Those who were below were failures. Peyton and Tom Brady, McNabb, Palmer, Chad Pennington, Rivers and so many other success stories completed at least 59 percent of their passes in the span of their final two seasons.

Leaf, Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsey, J.P. Losman, Kyle Boller and so many others were among the many collegians who did not exceed the 59 percent combined mark in their final two seasons. They have been NFL failures.

Now, even the Theory of 59 is outdated. Stafford, Sanchez, Freeman and Davis all completed 59 percent of their passes or better during the final two seasons. Had they stayed in school for a senior year, their stats would be even better heading into the pros. If you use the Theory of 59, every quarterback in the draft except Rhett Bomar would be projected success, because Bomar is the only draft quarterback with less than a 59 percent completion rate. Still, this theory is a good evaluating tool, because accuracy is often more important than strong arms when looking at quarterbacks.

Teams will have to break down every pass and determine the completion percentages of throws longer than 10 yards to project the success of these quarterbacks. Of course, the NFL game has changed in many ways to give all of these underclassmen hope. With officials calling fewer than 1.7 holding penalties per game on average, quarterbacks can complete 65 percent of their passes working out of three- and five-step drops. They even have enough time to get to their third and maybe fourth reads on some throws.

Stafford, by the way, plans to run but not throw this weekend at Indianapolis. The Detroit Lions are seriously considering him for the first pick in the draft, so Stafford doesn't want to scare them by having a bad throwing day to receivers he just met. He'll do his throwing on the Georgia campus under his terms.

Maybe it's fitting that the class of 2009 is one in which teams have to use a hurry-up strategy to get to know the quarterbacks of the future. The NFL is going to more no-huddle, hurry-up offense. This weekend at the combine is the first real chance teams can get to know the 2009 quarterbacks of the future. The draft is a little more than two months away.

It's a hurry-up pace for a no-huddle league. Fitting.

The high rate of failure for underclassman QB's, combined with the HUGE contracts, is just another reason I think the Lions are going to seriously consider DA.