Stockton Shorts Discusses Brian Hoyer
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I actually agree with a lot that Stockton has to say.
I don't think Hoyer is the long-term solution in Cleveland. I don't think that championing a few stats against the worst pass defenses in the NFL is an argument FOR his efficiency. The combination of Mack going down and teams loading up against the Browns' running game (with little fear of Hoyer's arm) is real and is the reason that the Browns are having some real problems sustaining drives. When he lists top QBs and says Hoyer isn't anywhere near them, he's right. When he says that it's very unlikely you can win without that level of player, he's also right.
I think that a lot of his lashing out is in response to lousy arguments against what he's saying. He's not sucking Johnny's knob... It's not that kind of argument. I'm impressed with Hoyer's record as the Browns' starter, but am decidedly less infatuated with (let's say) his QB rating against the Bucs. I think if you want to make an argument FOR Hoyer, you look at his overall record without getting too much deeper... Other stats don't come out necessarily in his favor.
Here's the thing (if Stockton will indulge me a couple of questions answered), is that I think a leap is being made that I can't make sense of.
1) As a Browns fan, would you seriously prefer to see them lose, even though they have a QB you don't believe in?
2) Who gives the team a better chance to win right NOW. Hoyer or Manziel?
3) Why are winning and team-building considered mutually exclusive? What prevents the Browns from going (let's say) 8-8 this year, having another strong draft and another battle for starting quarterback next year and continuing to build on this season's successes?
Being lousy hasn't gotten this franchise anywhere for the last 15 years. I'm sorry man, I WANT TO WIN. 8-8 would be a BIG fucking year for this team. And right now, the guy who has the best chance of getting us there is Brian Hoyer. A 7-3 record as a starter is impressive, even if it IS against shitty competition. If nothing else, it's evidence that the Browns are no longer in that shitty grouping; that there are games you can reasonably EXPECT the Browns to win... And that's a positive, man. And Hoyer is a part of that positive.
I actually agree with a lot that Stockton has to say.
1) As a Browns fan, would you seriously prefer to see them lose, even though they have a QB you don't believe in?
2) Who gives the team a better chance to win right NOW. Hoyer or Manziel?
3) Why are winning and team-building considered mutually exclusive? What prevents the Browns from going (let's say) 8-8 this year, having another strong draft and another battle for starting quarterback next year and continuing to build on this season's successes?
Being lousy hasn't gotten this franchise anywhere for the last 15 years. I'm sorry man, I WANT TO WIN. 8-8 would be a BIG fucking year for this team. And right now, the guy who has the best chance of getting us there is Brian Hoyer. A 7-3 record as a starter is impressive, even if it IS against shitty competition. If nothing else, it's evidence that the Browns are no longer in that shitty grouping; that there are games you can reasonably EXPECT the Browns to win... And that's a positive, man. And Hoyer is a part of that positive.
1) As a season ticket holder with a 6+ hour round trip there and back, are you out of your f**cking mind? You think since 1999 after paying my annual tribute, you might think I'm f**cking sick and tired of losing? Like I really enjoy a 3 hour drive back to Dayton after another loss? I said it to Stockton, and I'll say it to you- F**CK Manziel's development.
2) That's not too bright- if Pettine and Shanahan thought Manziel gave them the better chance to win, he'd already be starting. Head coaches put the players out there they believe gives them the best chance to win- or they get fired in short order.
3) That's what's really f**ked up. Even if the Browns should lose to the Bengals- they're still 5-4. 4 more wins puts them in Playoff discussion, 5 definitely will- the way this season is playing out. Or you forget Gordon comes back the last 6 games of the season?
FWIW, today is Hoyer's Super Bowl- beat the Bungles, it's his job to lose the rest of the way out.
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Bengals made the same mistake all of you are begging the Browns to make, they took a guy with average talent and made him their Franchise
Now they're fucked.
I told my Bengal fan over and over and over "Dalton isn't the guy" and he said "But he wins, he gets us to the playoffs" and everytime I'd say "He doesn't have the talent" he'd repeat Daltons record over and over. 30-18 this past offseason.
Bengals signed him up for 6 years 115 Mil and the very FIRST thing they said was his record. 30-18, two playoff appearances. Sometimes its ugly but he gets wins.
Sound familiar?
Thats why you don't take average talent and make him your Franchise.
"BUT STOCKTON YOU SAID HOYER WOULD LOSE!!!"
I know all of you are going to say it, and this Bengals game had ZERO to do with Brian Hoyer. ZERO. He had an ok game. I saw one pass that was a great pass and a ton of passes that went to WRs with nobody within 5 yards of them.
90% of all Hoyers throws, if he DIDN'T complete it he'd be selling insurance by now.
He's an average talent, and now hes going to be asking big money and if the Browns give it to him (which they wont) thats the end of the Franchise. Kiss everyone goodbye in 3 years as it'll be starting all over, all over again. And now you got them on NFL network talking $100Mil contract??? Is this real life?
You don't take an average QB and make him your Franchise. You don't keep quoting a record and ignore the actual ability. You do that, and you ruin your Franchise.
By the way you can not tell me about any Manziel lovers...they don't exist....they don't exist....meanwhile there are fans CHANTING "BRAIN HOYER" Chanting it. Ignoring the rest of the team, and acting like Hoyer is the CAUSE of these wins and not just the QB that they're working with. 15/23 for 198 Yards and 0 TDs and people are CHANTING his name on the road?! And you wonder why I can't believe you people.
There are FAR more Hoyer zealots who give him far too much credit and zero blame, then there has EVER been Manziel lovers.
You people are in love with his story and ignore the reality of his talent.
If the Browns Front Office are dumb enough to buy into it, just like the Bengals did with Dalton.....Kiss any chance of a Super Bowl goodbye. -
And goodbye to you, sir.
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the sociopath just posted another thread.
unbelievable. seriously.
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so stupid... ugh
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truly, truly unbelievable.
a browns board sociopath terrorist.
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Hoyer was in a zone, didnt need to pass the 2nd half..
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and i dont even need to justify why brian hoyer is the man, because its not worth it, but if hoyer was on the bengals he'd have top 5 stats in the league. if you cant watch a game and see hoyer has the intangibles and ability of a legitimate winning quarterback then idk what to tell you. just unbelievable i had to read this when i was excited
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Sooo..... Are you a Browns fan?
Would you make a thread like this after a super bowl win with Brian Hoyer under center?
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he's no browns fan. he's a brown's hater as long as JF doesn't see the field. so unless someone just flushes this dude away for good he'll be here like this through thick and thin until his gayfriend plays.
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Lmfao Stockton! Loving my browns!
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If you're not excited about Brian hoyer and his browns you're delusional
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Bengals made the same mistake all of you are begging the Browns to make, they took a guy with average talent and made him their Franchise
Now they're fucked.
I told my Bengal fan over and over and over "Dalton isn't the guy" and he said "But he wins, he gets us to the playoffs" and everytime I'd say "He doesn't have the talent" he'd repeat Daltons record over and over. 30-18 this past offseason.
Bengals signed him up for 6 years 115 Mil and the very FIRST thing they said was his record. 30-18, two playoff appearances. Sometimes its ugly but he gets wins.
Sound familiar?
Thats why you don't take average talent and make him your Franchise.
"BUT STOCKTON YOU SAID HOYER WOULD LOSE!!!"
I know all of you are going to say it, and this Bengals game had ZERO to do with Brian Hoyer. ZERO. He had an ok game. I saw one pass that was a great pass and a ton of passes that went to WRs with nobody within 5 yards of them.
90% of all Hoyers throws, if he DIDN'T complete it he'd be selling insurance by now.
He's an average talent, and now hes going to be asking big money and if the Browns give it to him (which they wont) thats the end of the Franchise. Kiss everyone goodbye in 3 years as it'll be starting all over, all over again. And now you got them on NFL network talking $100Mil contract??? Is this real life?
You don't take an average QB and make him your Franchise. You don't keep quoting a record and ignore the actual ability. You do that, and you ruin your Franchise.
By the way you can not tell me about any Manziel lovers...they don't exist....they don't exist....meanwhile there are fans CHANTING "BRAIN HOYER" Chanting it. Ignoring the rest of the team, and acting like Hoyer is the CAUSE of these wins and not just the QB that they're working with. 15/23 for 198 Yards and 0 TDs and people are CHANTING his name on the road?! And you wonder why I can't believe you people.
There are FAR more Hoyer zealots who give him far too much credit and zero blame, then there has EVER been Manziel lovers.
You people are in love with his story and ignore the reality of his talent.
If the Browns Front Office are dumb enough to buy into it, just like the Bengals did with Dalton.....Kiss any chance of a Super Bowl goodbye.Bengals made the same mistake all of you are begging the Browns to make, they took a guy with average talent and made him their Franchise
Now they're fucked.
I told my Bengal fan over and over and over "Dalton isn't the guy" and he said "But he wins, he gets us to the playoffs" and everytime I'd say "He doesn't have the talent" he'd repeat Daltons record over and over. 30-18 this past offseason.
Bengals signed him up for 6 years 115 Mil and the very FIRST thing they said was his record. 30-18, two playoff appearances. Sometimes its ugly but he gets wins.
Sound familiar?
Thats why you don't take average talent and make him your Franchise.
"BUT STOCKTON YOU SAID HOYER WOULD LOSE!!!"
I know all of you are going to say it, and this Bengals game had ZERO to do with Brian Hoyer. ZERO. He had an ok game. I saw one pass that was a great pass and a ton of passes that went to WRs with nobody within 5 yards of them.
90% of all Hoyers throws, if he DIDN'T complete it he'd be selling insurance by now.
He's an average talent, and now hes going to be asking big money and if the Browns give it to him (which they wont) thats the end of the Franchise. Kiss everyone goodbye in 3 years as it'll be starting all over, all over again. And now you got them on NFL network talking $100Mil contract??? Is this real life?
You don't take an average QB and make him your Franchise. You don't keep quoting a record and ignore the actual ability. You do that, and you ruin your Franchise.
By the way you can not tell me about any Manziel lovers...they don't exist....they don't exist....meanwhile there are fans CHANTING "BRAIN HOYER" Chanting it. Ignoring the rest of the team, and acting like Hoyer is the CAUSE of these wins and not just the QB that they're working with. 15/23 for 198 Yards and 0 TDs and people are CHANTING his name on the road?! And you wonder why I can't believe you people.
There are FAR more Hoyer zealots who give him far too much credit and zero blame, then there has EVER been Manziel lovers.
You people are in love with his story and ignore the reality of his talent.
If the Browns Front Office are dumb enough to buy into it, just like the Bengals did with Dalton.....Kiss any chance of a Super Bowl goodbye.
Go F**ck your self. Brian played like Brian "Brady" Hoyer tonight- and if you're not willing to admit it, you're F**cking blind.
My only complaint about tonight? they didn't let your poster boy take the last series of snaps up 24-3 with a few minutes left. Can't let THE FRANCHISE get hurt.
whhaaaaahhhh. Hoyer just earned himself a multi milliion dollar payday. And comparing Hoyer to Dalton is bull shit. Dalton is anti clutch, Hoyer is the exact opposite.
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Franchise qbs grow on trees. Easy to find Tom Brady and Peyton Manning in every draft.
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Shorty, you are never going to win the MENSA bowl, you don't have the talent for it. But you go on believing that you're Gods gift to all things wise. So pack your little " History will be kind to me" catch phrase and shove it where the sun don't shine. Here's a new catch phrase for you. "It would be kind if YOU were history".
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