All of us Hoyer backers should admit one thing...
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There's always the talent factor. I know guy who play the guitar every day and never get better than mediocre. I know other guys who rarely practice but can just tear it up.
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
There's always the talent factor. I know guy who play the guitar every day and never get better than mediocre. I know other guys who rarely practice but can just tear it up.
WSS
There's always the talent factor. I know guy who play the guitar every day and never get better than mediocre. I know other guys who rarely practice but can just tear it up.
WSS
Which are you?
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I'm saying what he does off the field has yet to affect his on the field performance and by all accounts his practice. What you are saying is pure speculation and like I've said before most of what you all know of Johnny is from ESPN and TMZ. I watched every one of Johnny's snaps at A&M and even going back to his senior year of high school and I have yet to see any problems with him on the field. You can't just compare Johnny to other guys who were good in college but failed in the NFL. Johnny was better than most of them and maybe college performance does matter in some players. If Johnny is addicted to cocaine and out of the league in a few years then I will eat my words but as of right now I expect him to be a very good NFL player.
I'm saying what he does off the field has yet to affect his on the field performance and by all accounts his practice.
Just because you say it doesn't make it true.
What you are saying is pure speculation and like I've said before most of what you all know of Johnny is from ESPN and TMZ.
And everything you are saying is pure speculation based on what you know about him from college, and based on your manlove for him
I watched every one of Johnny's snaps at A&M and even going back to his senior year of high school and I have yet to see any problems with him on the field.
And those snaps mean nothing in his role as a Quarterback for The Cleveland Browns.(except to get him drafted by them....but now it is a clean slate and he has to prove what he can do in the major leagues.
You can't just compare Johnny to other guys who were good in college but failed in the NFL.
Yes, you can...because, as I noted, 50% of all first round drafted QBs bust. Its a fact. It is up to him to prove that he is part of the 50% success side.
Johnny was better than most of them and maybe college performance does matter in some players. If Johnny is addicted to cocaine and out of the league in a few years then I will eat my words but as of right now I expect him to be a very good NFL player.
I don't think it is a matter of him having some addiction. I don't think all those QB busts had off field issues. They just weren't good enough. JFF needs to prove he is good enough....and part of that proof is staying away from off field problems as much as he can. (and coming home at 2:30 in the morning where he is likely to run into drunks is not a good showing leading to that proof)
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I'm saying what he does off the field has yet to affect his on the field performance and by all accounts his practice. What you are saying is pure speculation and like I've said before most of what you all know of Johnny is from ESPN and TMZ. I watched every one of Johnny's snaps at A&M and even going back to his senior year of high school and I have yet to see any problems with him on the field. You can't just compare Johnny to other guys who were good in college but failed in the NFL. Johnny was better than most of them and maybe college performance does matter in some players. If Johnny is addicted to cocaine and out of the league in a few years then I will eat my words but as of right now I expect him to be a very good NFL player.
I'm saying what he does off the field has yet to affect his on the field performance and by all accounts his practice. What you are saying is pure speculation and like I've said before most of what you all know of Johnny is from ESPN and TMZ. I watched every one of Johnny's snaps at A&M and even going back to his senior year of high school and I have yet to see any problems with him on the field. You can't just compare Johnny to other guys who were good in college but failed in the NFL. Johnny was better than most of them and maybe college performance does matter in some players. If Johnny is addicted to cocaine and out of the league in a few years then I will eat my words but as of right now I expect him to be a very good NFL player.
Maybe he will be, but the browns are winning so we won't be seeing him unless Hoyer gets hurt. The arguments that the browns wins would be much better with Johnny is actually pretty silly.
No problems with Johnny as a player or person, but some of the Johnny new browns fans are crazy. Winning sucks without Johnny... Right.
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There's always the talent factor. I know guy who play the guitar every day and never get better than mediocre. I know other guys who rarely practice but can just tear it up.
WSS
Which are you?
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There's always the talent factor. I know guy who play the guitar every day and never get better than mediocre. I know other guys who rarely practice but can just tear it up.
WSS
There's always the talent factor. I know guy who play the guitar every day and never get better than mediocre. I know other guys who rarely practice but can just tear it up.
WSS
Ahhh, like Allen Iverson.......practice?.......PRACTICE?!?!!!???.....
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I'm saying what he does off the field has yet to affect his on the field performance and by all accounts his practice. What you are saying is pure speculation and like I've said before most of what you all know of Johnny is from ESPN and TMZ. I watched every one of Johnny's snaps at A&M and even going back to his senior year of high school and I have yet to see any problems with him on the field. You can't just compare Johnny to other guys who were good in college but failed in the NFL. Johnny was better than most of them and maybe college performance does matter in some players. If Johnny is addicted to cocaine and out of the league in a few years then I will eat my words but as of right now I expect him to be a very good NFL player.
Maybe he will be, but the browns are winning so we won't be seeing him unless Hoyer gets hurt. The arguments that the browns wins would be much better with Johnny is actually pretty silly.
No problems with Johnny as a player or person, but some of the Johnny new browns fans are crazy. Winning sucks without Johnny... Right.
Maybe he will be, but the browns are winning so we won't be seeing him unless Hoyer gets hurt. The arguments that the browns wins would be much better with Johnny is actually pretty silly.
No problems with Johnny as a player or person, but some of the Johnny new browns fans are crazy. Winning sucks without Johnny... Right.
I have enjoyed the wins with Hoyer as quarterback because right now I am a Browns fan. I'm not saying the browns would be much better but I think that they would be better. I feel like I have to say the same thing over and over but there is so much Johnny hate that I have to try and give people my opinion as someone who actually watched Johnny play. It is not "manlove" as some say. I really like Johnny as a player and in fact I am not much of a fan of him as a person but like I said when the time comes to play he shows up. And yes, everything I am saying is speculation too but I have followed him far more than you all have.
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Maybe he will be, but the browns are winning so we won't be seeing him unless Hoyer gets hurt. The arguments that the browns wins would be much better with Johnny is actually pretty silly.
No problems with Johnny as a player or person, but some of the Johnny new browns fans are crazy. Winning sucks without Johnny... Right.
I have enjoyed the wins with Hoyer as quarterback because right now I am a Browns fan. I'm not saying the browns would be much better but I think that they would be better. I feel like I have to say the same thing over and over but there is so much Johnny hate that I have to try and give people my opinion as someone who actually watched Johnny play. It is not "manlove" as some say. I really like Johnny as a player and in fact I am not much of a fan of him as a person but like I said when the time comes to play he shows up. And yes, everything I am saying is speculation too but I have followed him far more than you all have.
I have enjoyed the wins with Hoyer as quarterback because right now I am a Browns fan. I'm not saying the browns would be much better but I think that they would be better. I feel like I have to say the same thing over and over but there is so much Johnny hate that I have to try and give people my opinion as someone who actually watched Johnny play. It is not "manlove" as some say. I really like Johnny as a player and in fact I am not much of a fan of him as a person but like I said when the time comes to play he shows up. And yes, everything I am saying is speculation too but I have followed him far more than you all have.
I don't think for a moment that their record would be better if JFF had been playing. Sipe....err, I mean Hoyer has that intangible about him that gets his team wins. JFF may have had that in college.....but he may have just been like Crash Davis.....one of the best minor league performers of all time....but not good enough for the majors. Yes, that is speculation.
And it is not "Johnny hate"...it is merely skepticism....not that we think he is bad, its just that he is an unknown commodity....and a rookie, so we are not going to invest ourselves in him yet til he can prove it.....and FYI, we ALL had Televisions and could watch Johnny play most of his games. Just like we watched all the other good college QBs that went bust.....and those that didn't.
We are not Kool-Aid drinkers here, even if you are.
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I have enjoyed the wins with Hoyer as quarterback because right now I am a Browns fan. I'm not saying the browns would be much better but I think that they would be better. I feel like I have to say the same thing over and over but there is so much Johnny hate that I have to try and give people my opinion as someone who actually watched Johnny play. It is not "manlove" as some say. I really like Johnny as a player and in fact I am not much of a fan of him as a person but like I said when the time comes to play he shows up. And yes, everything I am saying is speculation too but I have followed him far more than you all have.
I don't think for a moment that their record would be better if JFF had been playing. Sipe....err, I mean Hoyer has that intangible about him that gets his team wins. JFF may have had that in college.....but he may have just been like Crash Davis.....one of the best minor league performers of all time....but not good enough for the majors. Yes, that is speculation.
And it is not "Johnny hate"...it is merely skepticism....not that we think he is bad, its just that he is an unknown commodity....and a rookie, so we are not going to invest ourselves in him yet til he can prove it.....and FYI, we ALL had Televisions and could watch Johnny play most of his games. Just like we watched all the other good college QBs that went bust.....and those that didn't.
We are not Kool-Aid drinkers here, even if you are.
I don't think for a moment that their record would be better if JFF had been playing. Sipe....err, I mean Hoyer has that intangible about him that gets his team wins. JFF may have had that in college.....but he may have just been like Crash Davis.....one of the best minor league performers of all time....but not good enough for the majors. Yes, that is speculation.
And it is not "Johnny hate"...it is merely skepticism....not that we think he is bad, its just that he is an unknown commodity....and a rookie, so we are not going to invest ourselves in him yet til he can prove it.....and FYI, we ALL had Televisions and could watch Johnny play most of his games. Just like we watched all the other good college QBs that went bust.....and those that didn't.
We are not Kool-Aid drinkers here, even if you are.
If we can all agree to wait and see about Johnny then I would be satisfied. Not all of you are Johnny haters but its the ones that say he will be a bust based purely off of past quarterbacks and his off the field issues, not at all on his play. And I would be willing to bet that the majority of you didn't watch more than a couple of games of Johnny's. I may very well be drinking the Kool-Aid just as Baylor fans do with RG3 or Texas fans did with Vince Young but I am trying to be fair with Johnny and with Hoyer. If Hoyer plays well the last 5 games then I think the Browns should sign him to a reasonable extension and he should be the starter going into training camp next year. But based on what I have seen I don't think that will happen.
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Maybe he will be, but the browns are winning so we won't be seeing him unless Hoyer gets hurt. The arguments that the browns wins would be much better with Johnny is actually pretty silly.
No problems with Johnny as a player or person, but some of the Johnny new browns fans are crazy. Winning sucks without Johnny... Right.
I have enjoyed the wins with Hoyer as quarterback because right now I am a Browns fan. I'm not saying the browns would be much better but I think that they would be better. I feel like I have to say the same thing over and over but there is so much Johnny hate that I have to try and give people my opinion as someone who actually watched Johnny play. It is not "manlove" as some say. I really like Johnny as a player and in fact I am not much of a fan of him as a person but like I said when the time comes to play he shows up. And yes, everything I am saying is speculation too but I have followed him far more than you all have.
I have enjoyed the wins with Hoyer as quarterback because right now I am a Browns fan. I'm not saying the browns would be much better but I think that they would be better. I feel like I have to say the same thing over and over but there is so much Johnny hate that I have to try and give people my opinion as someone who actually watched Johnny play. It is not "manlove" as some say. I really like Johnny as a player and in fact I am not much of a fan of him as a person but like I said when the time comes to play he shows up. And yes, everything I am saying is speculation too but I have followed him far more than you all have.
Here's why we're skeptical. The other three rookie quarterbacks who are starting Bortles, Carr, and Bridge-water have a combined record of 6-27. That's reality. To think had Manziel started every game this season, we'd still be 7-4? Sorry, MHO that's JFF fanboy fantasy. At this point to toss Manziel out there-unless Hoyer should get injured, with the Browns making a serious playoff run for the first time since 2007, would be nuts.
I've said many times there really isn't much Manziel hate around here, but we're riding the horse that got us this far. The thing us long time Browns fans don't much like is the notion Manziel can't fail. I'm not saying he will, and I hope he has a HOF career- eventually. But Manziel was drafted in the exact same spot as Brady Quinn and Brandon Weeden- so hence the wait and see attitude- at least from this corner.
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First and foremost as a Browns fan I hope your Johnny love pans out for us someday and he is a great QB. There are plenty of people who are successful at the college level with questionable work ethics. Did you see a great work ethic over the summer from Johnny to try to earn this job? Did you see him putting in extra time on the field with receivers? Rolling bills in a bathroom in Vegas, hanging with rappers and be Mr. Hollywood is what I saw. I would also be willing to bet there was no "blue collar" element of management on the Browns that wanted Johnny. That has Haslam written all over it and he is about as far from blue collar as you can get.
Again I hope you are right and he keeps his nose clean and become a great QB but there are serious signs of concern with the kid.
All of the pictures of him with rappers or drinking in clubs has absolutely nothing to do with his work ethic. I would imagine there are many pro bowlers or other lesser known players who party just as much as Johnny but don't have any pictures taken. None of Johnny's off the field issues have ever shown up on the field or in practice. I don't know what he is doing in practice and neither do you. I just know at A&M to come back from a Heisman season with all the publicity and praise and off the field stuff and actually improve shows me something. And maybe he put in the work to get drafted but he is extremely competitive and believe me he isn't going to take his money and ride into the sunset.
And I will give you that he should probably tone it down it bit with the clubbing and taking pictures knowing how popular he is but Johnny is just being Johnny. That stuff is the reason he gets commercials and is so popular.
None of Johnny's off the field issues have ever shown up... in practice.
I don't know what he is doing in practice...
I just want to reread these two thoughts over and over for a half hour or so...
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I don't think for a moment that their record would be better if JFF had been playing. Sipe....err, I mean Hoyer has that intangible about him that gets his team wins. JFF may have had that in college.....but he may have just been like Crash Davis.....one of the best minor league performers of all time....but not good enough for the majors. Yes, that is speculation.
And it is not "Johnny hate"...it is merely skepticism....not that we think he is bad, its just that he is an unknown commodity....and a rookie, so we are not going to invest ourselves in him yet til he can prove it.....and FYI, we ALL had Televisions and could watch Johnny play most of his games. Just like we watched all the other good college QBs that went bust.....and those that didn't.
We are not Kool-Aid drinkers here, even if you are.
If we can all agree to wait and see about Johnny then I would be satisfied. Not all of you are Johnny haters but its the ones that say he will be a bust based purely off of past quarterbacks and his off the field issues, not at all on his play. And I would be willing to bet that the majority of you didn't watch more than a couple of games of Johnny's. I may very well be drinking the Kool-Aid just as Baylor fans do with RG3 or Texas fans did with Vince Young but I am trying to be fair with Johnny and with Hoyer. If Hoyer plays well the last 5 games then I think the Browns should sign him to a reasonable extension and he should be the starter going into training camp next year. But based on what I have seen I don't think that will happen.
If we can all agree to wait and see about Johnny then I would be satisfied. Not all of you are Johnny haters but its the ones that say he will be a bust based purely off of past quarterbacks and his off the field issues, not at all on his play. ...... ...
We are waiting to see.....90% of us haven't formed an opinion one way or the other.....it's the other 10% that go on and on and can't figure out that EVERYONE will NEVER agree 100%. So, if you're waiting for "us all to agree". it aint never gonna happen......and everyone who is 100% CERTAIN he'll be great or awful, based only upon college play or a few off field transgressions dont know jack....Im tired of hearing both....and, yes, you definitely drank the kool aid.....
I just want to reread these two thoughts over and over for a half hour or so...
. exactly.... -
If we can all agree to wait and see about Johnny then I would be satisfied. Not all of you are Johnny haters but its the ones that say he will be a bust based purely off of past quarterbacks and his off the field issues, not at all on his play. ...... ...
We are waiting to see.....90% of us haven't formed an opinion one way or the other.....it's the other 10% that go on and on and can't figure out that EVERYONE will NEVER agree 100%. So, if you're waiting for "us all to agree". it aint never gonna happen......and everyone who is 100% CERTAIN he'll be great or awful, based only upon college play or a few off field transgressions dont know jack....Im tired of hearing both....and, yes, you definitely drank the kool aid.....
I just want to reread these two thoughts over and over for a half hour or so...
. exactly.... . exactly....Just having a little fun at Kevin's expense... with no hard feelings I hope...
Kevin, here's what I know:
JM is the physically superior talent compared to BH.
All pre-season it was "Johnny vs. the playbook."
Pettine is a Defensive oriented HC.
Defensive HC's love emphasizing the run and minimizing turnovers.
BH is the starter because...
Everything from this point on is conjecture, but here goes...
... BH has shown day in and day out, in the practice sessions and in the film sessions that he understands where plays need to go based upon the play call and the Defense.
JM? Not so much...
And at least until the ATL game, BH reinforced this view in games as well.... even in his prior "bad games".
You want to chalk the above up to BH's experience alone? Fine... but I think you are fooling yourself. I would wager anything you cared to venture that BH outworks JM day in and day out, works more hours per week and more quality hours per week.
We know BH worked harder in TC. We know BH worked while JM partied. Appears to still be the case...
JM's a kid. I get it. And someday hopefully he will get it, too.
"It" is no longer only a game, son. Now it's your job.
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Of course if you buy into the fact that Brian Hoyer is the hardest working player on the team it's a little disappointing since this is the best you can expect. And we will need better to go to the next level in my opinion. I was kind of hoping he had a little upside left, weren't you guys?
People said that Colt McCoy and Charlie Frye worked hard. And you guys hate them.
(not to mention Tim Tebow)
WSS
www.westsidesteve.com www.myspace.com/westsidestevemusic www.cdbaby.com/artist/westsidestevesimmons -
How do we know Johnny wouldnt have had a rookie season like Griffin? Luck? Wilson? or Newton?
They were all rookies and had huge rookie seasons.
What is stopping Johnny from putting up a rookie season like that?
How is it a "pipe dream" if it has happened 4 times in the last few years?
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How do we know Johnny wouldnt have had a rookie season like Griffin? Luck? Wilson? or Newton?
They were all rookies and had huge rookie seasons.
What is stopping Johnny from putting up a rookie season like that?
How is it a "pipe dream" if it has happened 4 times in the last few years?
Your post is silly, but here it goes:How do we know Johnny wouldnt have had a rookie season like Griffin? Luck? Wilson? or Newton?
How do we know Johnny would have had a rookie season like Griffin? Luck? Wilson? or Newton?
They were all rookies and had huge rookie seasons.
What about the rookies who didn't have huge rookie seasons: Bortles, Bridgewater, Carr, Geno Smith, EJ Manuel, Matt Barkley, Tannehill, Weeden, Gabbert, Ponder...... could go back forever
What is stopping Johnny from putting up a rookie season like that?
The fact that he's the backup
How is it a "pipe dream" if it has happened 4 times in the last few years?
How many times has it NOT happened in the last few years where teams had hoped that it would? Hint: See above
We're having a good season without Johnny. When and if his time comes I will support him fully...It isn't "Hoyer Love" just that I'm not going to assume what "could have happened" if he started the season instead of Hoyer. As far as we all know, Johnny is an unknown in the NFL.
Also, of the guys you listed:
Griffin: Washington wishes they never drafted him...He's about to lose his job to COLT MCCOY.
Newton: I don't question his physical talent, but I question many other things about him...so does Carolina. As of this point I don't want him to be my franchise QB...and I was a huge Newton fan.
Wilson: He's a good, smart QB. But, he leads the 30th ranked pass offense in the NFL. He's solid, as of yet he hasn't shown he has an elite future like the other guy you mentioned - but I don't mind him being my franchise guy...
Luck: Not in the same league as the other 3. Not even worth being compared to Manziel at this point...
We're on pace to have a season comparable to the 2012 skins, colts, seahawks. And already better than the 2011 panthers with Newton.
I'm happy with 2014 so far...manziel is still on the roster no need to keep getting ya panties in a bunch over him.
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Thats my point..
You can bring examples for both sides..
So why would you automatically start out from the negative point of view for the Browns 1st rd QB we traded up to get and say he cannot do what those other 5 RECENT Qb's did.. as opposed to being POSITIVE and saying he can?
Doesnt make sense
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Thats my point..
You can bring examples for both sides..
So why would you automatically start out from the negative point of view for the Browns 1st rd QB we traded up to get and say he cannot do what those other 5 RECENT Qb's did.. as opposed to being POSITIVE and saying he can?
Doesnt make sense
Thats my point..
You can bring examples for both sides..
So why would you automatically start out from the negative point of view for the Browns 1st rd QB we traded up to get and say he cannot do what those other 5 RECENT Qb's did.. as opposed to being POSITIVE and saying he can?
Doesnt make sense
I don't get what you're trying to say. He could come in and light the world in fire or he could come in and play like a turd. I hope if he has to come in he does the former, but I don't expect him to come in for a while yet...
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I don't think for a moment that their record would be better if JFF had been playing. Sipe....err, I mean Hoyer has that intangible about him that gets his team wins. JFF may have had that in college.....but he may have just been like Crash Davis.....one of the best minor league performers of all time....but not good enough for the majors. Yes, that is speculation.
And it is not "Johnny hate"...it is merely skepticism....not that we think he is bad, its just that he is an unknown commodity....and a rookie, so we are not going to invest ourselves in him yet til he can prove it.....and FYI, we ALL had Televisions and could watch Johnny play most of his games. Just like we watched all the other good college QBs that went bust.....and those that didn't.
We are not Kool-Aid drinkers here, even if you are.
If we can all agree to wait and see about Johnny then I would be satisfied. Not all of you are Johnny haters but its the ones that say he will be a bust based purely off of past quarterbacks and his off the field issues, not at all on his play. And I would be willing to bet that the majority of you didn't watch more than a couple of games of Johnny's. I may very well be drinking the Kool-Aid just as Baylor fans do with RG3 or Texas fans did with Vince Young but I am trying to be fair with Johnny and with Hoyer. If Hoyer plays well the last 5 games then I think the Browns should sign him to a reasonable extension and he should be the starter going into training camp next year. But based on what I have seen I don't think that will happen.
If we can all agree to wait and see about Johnny then I would be satisfied.
Well, that is what most of us want.....to wait and see about him. For many JFF fanboys that isn't enough.
Not all of you are Johnny haters but its the ones that say he will be a bust based purely off of past quarterbacks and his off the field issues, not at all on his play.
I don't say he will be a bust based on his play or on his off field issues. I say there is 50/50 chance he could be a bust simply because statistics of the last 50 years say that is the fate of first round QBs.
And I would be willing to bet that the majority of you didn't watch more than a couple of games of Johnny's.
He was on TV around here about every week for two years due to his national renown. Why would you think we would not have seen him...unless you are saying Browns fans don't watch college football?
I may very well be drinking the Kool-Aid just as Baylor fans do with RG3 or Texas fans did with Vince Young but I am trying to be fair with Johnny and with Hoyer. If Hoyer plays well the last 5 games then I think the Browns should sign him to a reasonable extension and he should be the starter going into training camp next year. But based on what I have seen I don't think that will happen.
What you have seen is a 7-4 record. That is called winning. We haven't seen much of it out of any other QB around here for a long time. Maybe you are too busy watching reruns of Johnny's college years to see what the Cleveland Browns are doing. They are winning. Has Hoyer been perfect? No....but we only needed him to be perfect for 44 seconds Sunday. And that was enough. We now believe based on that and other actions this year that he can win. We don't know that about JTMZ.
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Of course if you buy into the fact that Brian Hoyer is the hardest working player on the team it's a little disappointing since this is the best you can expect. And we will need better to go to the next level in my opinion. I was kind of hoping he had a little upside left, weren't you guys?
People said that Colt McCoy and Charlie Frye worked hard. And you guys hate them.
(not to mention Tim Tebow)
WSS
Of course if you buy into the fact that Brian Hoyer is the hardest working player on the team it's a little disappointing since this is the best you can expect. And we will need better to go to the next level in my opinion. I was kind of hoping he had a little upside left, weren't you guys?
People said that Colt McCoy and Charlie Frye worked hard. And you guys hate them.
(not to mention Tim Tebow)
WSS
I think the upside we need to see is pretty simple: a better completion pct. ...which I believe is entirely possible because he can be so spot on so often that it makes your head scratch when he is off target. Also, no more swallowing ostrich eggs like on that pass in the end zone that.....you know....got me going crazy.
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